In retrospect, would you move again to Vietnam?

Yes I agree district 1 too me isn't Vietnam, I live in the Thu Duc district of Saigon and I don't see any other foreigners here in this area. This is what I call the real world of Vietnam. I only go to district 1 when I absolutely have too.

Bazza139 wrote:

Not true.    ..as I suspect, more than a few posts here - and elsewhere..?

..or Vietnam.   I write from the deep jungles of Laos, but like my voiceover: Ah'll b' Bach! (shortly)    Or like Mr Walker, strolling the streets like an ordinary man...

Feel safe, (but keep the windows barred)    Who knows where I'll turn up next..?

..But Uranus is out (for some time yet)     I remain a citizen of Planet Earth...     

  ..and yes, Heaven (for me) will always be Vietnam.

  There is nowhere else closer.       

Bazza have a look at your posts. They give your location as Brisbane. Not that I worry, after all, Brissy is as good a place as any to go for a beer - mmm Pig and Whistle...

Now, about PDR Laos. I lived in Lak Sao, Bolikhamsay province for a year or so. Stunning place.

Memories .....

I'm quite happy living anywhere.  Ghettos have genuine people.   Relate!

But my (extensive) research reveals (North) Vietnam is the most suited for me.    Myanmar?  Maybe when they get over being run by a Woman..?    Northern India looks good, but they always seem to be squabbling about the neighbours...    ..or the Earth moves for them...     No, Vietnam has it all.    Plus.

Should have done it before this?   What, and miss out (most) of the Dramas..?     Like you, I have a far greater appreciation of living in a perfect place because of them.   Sure, perfection (cannot) exist, but this is the best I have found.   So far.

And apart from the greenest grass, the best is the stuff you nurture for yourself.

  As you know             

Hi everybody,

Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

Let's make sure that we are actually sharing our expat experience about Vietnam only so as to avoid off topic posts.

Thank you,

Priscilla

I agree...    ..but Priscilla!

..we're so good at our off-topic observations...     

Still, your censored post looks better than mine.

We'll (try to) behave in future.           

I dunno Priscilla, I don't think Bazza's and my posts are all that off topic. What I mean is that the observer who has an ounce of nous can glean a lot more from our posts than, for example "I hate it" and the counter view "it's just so wonderful".

I could go on for hours enthusing about where I live, but to be honest that may very well not suit everyone.

Anyway, late afternoon today we went to Thau Dien. Troi Oi! I could hardly breathe, the air was so thick with pollution. After an hour or so (and having resisted the temptation to go to the Bia bar), we went to An Phu Metro, which seems to have improved quite a bit since it was taken over by the Thai mob.

We bought a mixed bunch of stuff, lots of Vietnamese stuff and fresh fruit, sea food and sauces as well as some Aussie beef and a leg of lamb, to fill the freezer - yep we can use a freezer as there are far fewer power cuts these days than in 2000.

Living here these days isn't too much different from living in London around the corner from a good deli, in some respects. Except that here there are fewer Middle Eastern people wandering about - and the taxi drivers are all Vietnamese and not from Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. And its warmer...

Anyway, Happy Holiday to all!

eodmatt wrote:

I dunno Priscilla, I don't think Bazza's and my posts are all that off topic. What I mean is that the observer who has an ounce of nous can glean a lot more from our posts than, for example "I hate it" and the counter view "it's just so wonderful".

I could go on for hours enthusing about where I live, but to be honest that may very well not suit everyone.

Anyway, late afternoon today we went to Thau Dien. Troi Oi! I could hardly breathe, the air was so thick with pollution. After an hour or so (and having resisted the temptation to go to the Bia bar), we went to An Phu Metro, which seems to have improved quite a bit since it was taken over by the Thai mob.

We bought a mixed bunch of stuff, lots of Vietnamese stuff and fresh fruit, sea food and sauces as well as some Aussie beef and a leg of lamb, to fill the freezer - yep we can use a freezer as there are far fewer power cuts these days than in 2000.

Living here these days isn't too much different from living in London around the corner from a good deli, in some respects. Except that here there are fewer Middle Eastern people wandering about - and the taxi drivers are all Vietnamese and not from Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. And its warmer...

Anyway, Happy Holiday to all!

You make several good points. "Gee, Viet Nam is Great" or "Gee, Viet Nam is terrible" are uninformative and even worse boring statements.

"Living here these days isn't too much different from living in London . . ." Mostly, it is a good thing that most places, people live much better than and have vastly more choices than was true 40-50 years ago. Still, some valuable things do get lost. A lot of what made Viet Nam, Viet Nam is now forgotten and gone. A lot of what made Vietnamese, Vietnamese is also forgotten and gone. Progress is a blessing. But, it does have a price.

An Old Man remembering the days when he was young.

Thank you(se) for your supporting posts, 70's & Matt

As (a serious student of sociology, demographics and the human condition..?) any objectivist demands (and needs) contrasting values to give appreciation.   Especially when dealing with the 'blind eyes and deaf ears' of Hexagram 21, line 4 of the I Ching...   Beware the yoke of guilt.

The barbarians at the gates are us.   Or our 'Western Values'.   Us wiser ones, and the accidental (incidental?) folk find places like the 'True' Vietnam to be the Utopia we all unconsciously? seek.   Just as we need to compare the various districts, villages and yes, even the tourist traps full of busloads of sheep being told where to go.

i prefer to live here (Northern Vietnam) because Brisbane had devolved into a class structure of pretentious people comparing each other via the latest model SUV or worse(?) how much time and money they spent renovating their kitchens...

Vietnam is (still) full of real people who appreciate that life is to be lived.   Yes, it is still difficult for many (most) but change is the only true certainty, and while the supermarkets and suv's are inevitable in the cities, let us not ignore the fact that Vietnam is high on the list of rice exports to the world kitchens.   Only real people work on the land?   The new IT technology has produced our own 'silicon valley' in Saigon...

So the subliminal slime of 'sophistication' is insidious, seeping into spots us unsuspecting sheep don't bother to look into.   Or hear of.   

So yes, we need to compare values.   To appreciate.

I dare you to censor or ban this post, O great moderators...

Seriously...

Thank you bazza, 70s an edod I enjoy your post as an ignorant person who has not been there yet but is looking to build a life there with a special young lady another words I find them helpful

70 years old wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

I dunno Priscilla, I don't think Bazza's and my posts are all that off topic. What I mean is that the observer who has an ounce of nous can glean a lot more from our posts than, for example "I hate it" and the counter view "it's just so wonderful".

I could go on for hours enthusing about where I live, but to be honest that may very well not suit everyone.

Anyway, late afternoon today we went to Thau Dien. Troi Oi! I could hardly breathe, the air was so thick with pollution. After an hour or so (and having resisted the temptation to go to the Bia bar), we went to An Phu Metro, which seems to have improved quite a bit since it was taken over by the Thai mob.

We bought a mixed bunch of stuff, lots of Vietnamese stuff and fresh fruit, sea food and sauces as well as some Aussie beef and a leg of lamb, to fill the freezer - yep we can use a freezer as there are far fewer power cuts these days than in 2000.

Living here these days isn't too much different from living in London around the corner from a good deli, in some respects. Except that here there are fewer Middle Eastern people wandering about - and the taxi drivers are all Vietnamese and not from Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. And its warmer...

Anyway, Happy Holiday to all!

You make several good points. "Gee, Viet Nam is Great" or "Gee, Viet Nam is terrible" are uninformative and even worse boring statements.

"Living here these days isn't too much different from living in London . . ." Mostly, it is a good thing that most places, people live much better than and have vastly more choices than was true 40-50 years ago. Still, some valuable things do get lost. A lot of what made Viet Nam, Viet Nam is now forgotten and gone. A lot of what made Vietnamese, Vietnamese is also forgotten and gone. Progress is a blessing. But, it does have a price.

An Old Man remembering the days when he was young.

What you say is very true, but on the other hand, my wife, although highly educated, comes from a traditional family who were - and in the main still are - farmers, so she still has a lot of traditional leanings, as does her mum who lives with us regularly.

But you are right in that the city dwelling kids here are now  increasingly little different from city dwelling kids in Europe and the US - just so far they haven't yet embraced the brutish indifference to others and the the churlish bad manners that are evident in the inner cities elsewhere in the developed world and especially in the UK. Which is one of the reasons I don't live there anymore.

Bazza139 wrote:

Thank you(se) for your supporting posts, 70's & Matt

As (a serious student of sociology, demographics and the human condition..?) any objectivist demands (and needs) contrasting values to give appreciation.   Especially when dealing with the 'blind eyes and deaf ears' of Hexagram 21, line 4 of the I Ching...   Beware the yoke of guilt.

The barbarians at the gates are us.   Or our 'Western Values'.  Us wiser ones, and the accidental (incidental?) folk find places like the 'True' Vietnam to be the Utopia we all unconsciously? seek.   Just as we need to compare the various districts, villages and yes, even the tourist traps full of busloads of sheep being told where to go.

i prefer to live here (Northern Vietnam) because Brisbane had devolved into a class structure of pretentious people comparing each other via the latest model SUV or worse(?) how much time and money they spent renovating their kitchens...

Vietnam is (still) full of real people who appreciate that life is to be lived.   Yes, it is still difficult for many (most) but change is the only true certainty, and while the supermarkets and suv's are inevitable in the cities, let us not ignore the fact that Vietnam is high on the list of rice exports to the world kitchens.   Only real people work on the land?   The new IT technology has produced our own 'silicon valley' in Saigon...

So the subliminal slime of 'sophistication' is insidious, seeping into spots us unsuspecting sheep don't bother to look into.   Or hear of.   

So yes, we need to compare values.   To appreciate.

I dare you to censor or ban this post, O great moderators...

Seriously...

(My bold/itallics) And...... Err ..... Occidental..... Perchance? 

eodmatt wrote:

Bazza139 wrote:

Thank you(se) for your supporting posts, 70's & Matt

As (a serious student of sociology, demographics and the human condition..?) any objectivist demands (and needs) contrasting values to give appreciation.   Especially when dealing with the 'blind eyes and deaf ears' of Hexagram 21, line 4 of the I Ching...   Beware the yoke of guilt.

The barbarians at the gates are us.   Or our 'Western Values'.  Us wiser ones, and the accidental (incidental?) folk find places like the 'True' Vietnam to be the Utopia we all unconsciously? seek.   Just as we need to compare the various districts, villages and yes, even the tourist traps full of busloads of sheep being told where to go.

i prefer to live here (Northern Vietnam) because Brisbane had devolved into a class structure of pretentious people comparing each other via the latest model SUV or worse(?) how much time and money they spent renovating their kitchens...

Vietnam is (still) full of real people who appreciate that life is to be lived.   Yes, it is still difficult for many (most) but change is the only true certainty, and while the supermarkets and suv's are inevitable in the cities, let us not ignore the fact that Vietnam is high on the list of rice exports to the world kitchens.   Only real people work on the land?   The new IT technology has produced our own 'silicon valley' in Saigon...

So the subliminal slime of 'sophistication' is insidious, seeping into spots us unsuspecting sheep don't bother to look into.   Or hear of.   

So yes, we need to compare values.   To appreciate.

I dare you to censor or ban this post, O great moderators...

Seriously...

(My bold/itallics) And...... Err ..... Occidental..... Perchance? 

I ain't no "wiser one" or PhD. I am a retired Army Sargent who has been around the block a time or few and seen "the pointy end of the stick." Viet Nam is no Utopia. Viet Nam is a country full of human people. No More. No less.

I am in no position to argue differently.

The 'pointy end of the stick' is experience.   No more, No less.

Accidental and Incidental people are human too...

..but they don't have your Appreciation.    So accept that you are wise.

We are all the unique and individual drops of water that make up the sea of humanity.

What is Utopia for some is Hell on Earth for others.

That is what makes us all human: our differences.

And under the skin?      We are all the same

The Master has spoken!

Master of Rubbish..?

..we are all here because it is the best place (?)   (For Who?)

..or where we are (truly) able to 'be ourselves', found what we wanted (for sooooo... long...), found the Love of Life, (or the love of our life), found meaning, or even 'accidentally' found the serenity that has eluded us until now...

..maybe for the food, the fun, the laid-back lifestyle the rest of the rat race can only dream about.   Maybe more.  Perhaps less.   But we still feel entitled to boast about it...

..so I do.      And yes, be envious, ye mortals...         

Goodness me, such modesty....

With people of limited ability modesty is merely honesty. But with those who possess great talent it is hypocrisy.

Arthur Schopenhauer

eodmatt wrote:

Goodness me, such modesty....

With people of limited ability modesty is merely honesty. But with those who possess great talent it is hypocrisy.

Arthur Schopenhauer

And in Viet Nam, modesty is merely good manners.

"If" by Kipling describes the correct balance.

70 years old wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

Goodness me, such modesty....

With people of limited ability modesty is merely honesty. But with those who possess great talent it is hypocrisy.

Arthur Schopenhauer

And in Viet Nam, modesty is merely good manners.

"If" by Kipling describes the correct balance.

Two days ago I had a conversation with a (Vietnamese) neighbour, where he said: "of course, we treat foreigners with respect. Unfortunately some of them take it that we are being subservient, which is not the case".

My husband and I moved to Vietnam in 2006.  If  we had it to do all over again, would we still do it again?  Absolutely!
Our ill-formed dis-ease with the way America was heading has only been confirmed over the years, so we certainly don't regret leaving.
On the other hand, our assets (some money and my skills as a physical therapist) are so very much more valuable here (in a real sense) than they were in the US.  Here, we are rich and my skills are unique, while in the US we were hanging on by our fingernails and my skills were a dime a dozen.  Here, we can have a huge positive impact on people's lives, while in America we were just anonymous cogs in the wheel.
We love our lives in Vietnam.  We would never, ever go back to the US.

Hello all

Some off topic posts have been removed from this thread.

Regards
Kenjee
Expat.com

Bugger! The bandits have been at it. Never mind, here is another gem of nonsense from me.

We live on a small private estate and one thing that I have noticed above all else is the silence. Once the kids have gone to bed and the karaoke has finished for the night (usually only Fridays and Saturdays), silence reigns.

There are laws in Vietnam about making noise after ten at night and, by and large unless there is a big party (which doesn't happen often and to which we invariably get invited anyway), people respect the law.

When we moved in here, the security leader saw us struggling with getting boxes upstairs from the truck and within moments,  a couple of his guys turned up to help. I grabbed the leader half an hour later and took him into the local shop and he refused beer for his blokes but accepted a single pack of cigarettes and two cans of orange juice.

Where I lived in UK, we didn't have security guards and in fact the police were only ever in evidence when they had their backsides screwed into an expensive fast car.

There are lots of downsides to living in Vietnam, e.g. I don't like to see the poverty one often encounters; the pollution is grim; the water supply .... well right now it's OK but in our last place it was bloody awful. And so on.

But for peace and quiet and, in the main, reasonable people, Vietnam has it.

eodmatt wrote:

Bugger! The bandits have been at it. Never mind, here is another gem of nonsense from me.

We live on a small private estate and one thing that I have noticed above all else is the silence. Once the kids have gone to bed and the karaoke has finished for the night (usually only Fridays and Saturdays), silence reigns.

There are laws in Vietnam about making noise after ten at night and, by and large unless there is a big party (which doesn't happen often and to which we invariably get invited anyway), people respect the law.

When we moved in here, the security leader saw us struggling with getting boxes upstairs from the truck and within moments,  a couple of his guys turned up to help. I grabbed the leader half an hour later and took him into the local shop and he refused beer for his blokes but accepted a single pack of cigarettes and two cans of orange juice.

Where I lived in UK, we didn't have security guards and in fact the police were only ever in evidence when they had their backsides screwed into an expensive fast car.

There are lots of downsides to living in Vietnam, e.g. I don't like to see the poverty one often encounters; the pollution is grim; the water supply .... well right now it's OK but in our last place it was bloody awful. And so on.

But for peace and quiet and, in the main, reasonable people, Vietnam has it.

"When we moved in here, the security leader saw us struggling with getting boxes upstairs from the truck and within moments,  a couple of his guys turned up to help. I grabbed the leader half an hour later and took him into the local shop and he refused beer for his blokes but accepted a single pack of cigarettes and two cans of orange juice."

Typically, you are expected to, politely, argue the point until the other person graciously allows you to win the argument. After all he doesn't want you to "loose face." Then, he can do you the favor of accepting beer for his people. This is something that most of us Westerners can't wrap our minds around. I expect that your wife took care of the beer later.

Note, this can be a delicate little dance and it is hard for us westerners to get it right. Thankfully our wives are born into it and can insure that the people are properly taken care of later.

Also note; even if you didn't do the dance perfectly, none of us do, you do get credit, respect and a genuine affection for trying. All in all you did good.

My 2 Xu

70 years old wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

Bugger! The bandits have been at it. Never mind, here is another gem of nonsense from me.

We live on a small private estate and one thing that I have noticed above all else is the silence. Once the kids have gone to bed and the karaoke has finished for the night (usually only Fridays and Saturdays), silence reigns.

There are laws in Vietnam about making noise after ten at night and, by and large unless there is a big party (which doesn't happen often and to which we invariably get invited anyway), people respect the law.

When we moved in here, the security leader saw us struggling with getting boxes upstairs from the truck and within moments,  a couple of his guys turned up to help. I grabbed the leader half an hour later and took him into the local shop and he refused beer for his blokes but accepted a single pack of cigarettes and two cans of orange juice.

Where I lived in UK, we didn't have security guards and in fact the police were only ever in evidence when they had their backsides screwed into an expensive fast car.

There are lots of downsides to living in Vietnam, e.g. I don't like to see the poverty one often encounters; the pollution is grim; the water supply .... well right now it's OK but in our last place it was bloody awful. And so on.

But for peace and quiet and, in the main, reasonable people, Vietnam has it.

"When we moved in here, the security leader saw us struggling with getting boxes upstairs from the truck and within moments,  a couple of his guys turned up to help. I grabbed the leader half an hour later and took him into the local shop and he refused beer for his blokes but accepted a single pack of cigarettes and two cans of orange juice."

Typically, you are expected to, politely, argue the point until the other person graciously allows you to win the argument. After all he doesn't want you to "loose face." Then, he can do you the favor of accepting beer for his people. This is something that most of us Westerners can't wrap our minds around. I expect that your wife took care of the beer later.

Note, this can be a delicate little dance and it is hard for us westerners to get it right. Thankfully our wives are born into it and can insure that the people are properly taken care of later.

Also note; even if you didn't do the dance perfectly, none of us do, you do get credit, respect and a genuine affection for trying. All in all you did good.

My 2 Xu

I know and I tried hard, but he flatly refused to take the beer and accepted the cigarettes and orange juice saying that was enough for two men.

My wife explained that the security staff are not allowed to be seen with beer or alcohol under any circumstances. Even at Christmas and Tet they refused drinks. A major part of the reason for this is that the site manager is a stickler for the rules and runs the estate like an old time Sergeant Major. Unlike many places here, the bins get emptied every day, they also get washed every other day and the whole estate gets swing fogged to keep mosquitoes down every Monday morning. The grass is cut once a month and the grass gets watered every day without fail even this morning and yesterday morning.

And when we lived in Q8 it was exactly the same. I got to know the security boss very well and he would only allow his off duty staff to come for a beer at Tet when they were not working and not in uniform. He did come to our new place out of uniform with some other residents just after Tet and had 2 beers, but no more - "in case he got called in to work in Q8".

It is actually very refreshing.

I always enjoy reading your posts, Matt, even if the Thought Police don't. I too have an overall very positive attitude to living in Vietnam. I lived there for 12 out of the last 15 years. My family are back in Oz now so our 8 y.o. daughter can go to school and learn English.  The plan is working out fine. We all enjoy living here.

Now, to get to the point for the Thought Police: Yes, in retrospect, we will return to live in Vietnam at some time in the future. Lovely people, lovely weather, fine food, cheap beer, and the supermarkets now sell cheese, smallgoods, and wines from all round the world. I can even buy a decent electric drill kit these days. And tailored clothes are so cheap. I haven't bought anything more than tracksuits in Oz in the last 22 years.

My family is fully accepted as part of the village.  We have good relations with the village offices, the village police, the Buddhist temples, the market sellers, the various restaurants and bia hoi shops. It really is like being in one huge family. Yes, I like living in Vietnam, will holiday there at least once a year, and (Thought Police, please note) will return one day to live.

ralphnhatrang wrote:

I always enjoy reading your posts, Matt, even if the Thought Police don't. I too have an overall very positive attitude to living in Vietnam. I lived there for 12 out of the last 15 years. My family are back in Oz now so our 8 y.o. daughter can go to school and learn English.  The plan is working out fine. We all enjoy living here.

Now, to get to the point for the Thought Police: Yes, in retrospect, we will return to live in Vietnam at some time in the future. Lovely people, lovely weather, fine food, cheap beer, and the supermarkets now sell cheese, smallgoods, and wines from all round the world. I can even buy a decent electric drill kit these days. And tailored clothes are so cheap. I haven't bought anything more than tracksuits in Oz in the last 22 years.

My family is fully accepted as part of the village.  We have good relations with the village offices, the village police, the Buddhist temples, the market sellers, the various restaurants and bia hoi shops. It really is like being in one huge family. Yes, I like living in Vietnam, will holiday there at least once a year, and (Thought Police, please note) will return one day to live.

The problem with the thought police is that they don't...

Think that is 

Since penning my last post, two neighbours have returned from visiting their home towns. One brought us avocados and the other brought is a lovely yellow melon.

Next time we go away we'll need a truck for all the return gifts. But it is nice. And it doesn't happen in the UK.

eodmatt wrote:

ralphnhatrang wrote:

I always enjoy reading your posts, Matt, even if the Thought Police don't. I too have an overall very positive attitude to living in Vietnam. I lived there for 12 out of the last 15 years. My family are back in Oz now so our 8 y.o. daughter can go to school and learn English.  The plan is working out fine. We all enjoy living here.

Now, to get to the point for the Thought Police: Yes, in retrospect, we will return to live in Vietnam at some time in the future. Lovely people, lovely weather, fine food, cheap beer, and the supermarkets now sell cheese, smallgoods, and wines from all round the world. I can even buy a decent electric drill kit these days. And tailored clothes are so cheap. I haven't bought anything more than tracksuits in Oz in the last 22 years.

My family is fully accepted as part of the village.  We have good relations with the village offices, the village police, the Buddhist temples, the market sellers, the various restaurants and bia hoi shops. It really is like being in one huge family. Yes, I like living in Vietnam, will holiday there at least once a year, and (Thought Police, please note) will return one day to live.

The problem with the thought police is that they don't...

Think that is 

Since penning my last post, two neighbours have returned from visiting their home towns. One brought us avocados and the other brought is a lovely yellow melon.

Next time we go away we'll need a truck for all the return gifts. But it is nice. And it doesn't happen in the UK.

"Thought Police" is a bit harsh. What they are primarily trying to do is host an informative site for those new to Viet Nam. This is a worthy mission. They also provide a place for those of us who have years to decades of experience in Viet Nam to chat. Sometimes, that conversation can take strange and interesting twists that are not useful to the newer people. An example would be, me going into my sadness that the last in my family who spoke Cherokee died when I was a toddler. So, I never learned to speak Cherokee and a "Sun Dance" is something that I will never be able to experience.

I do wish to thank eodmatt for his patience in allowing me to respond to some of his posts with answers that he knows and understands as well or better than I do. My intent is to take advantage of an opening to explain to the newer people a bit of how Viet Nam actually works.

Thanks 70! So you are Cherokee, or part thereof? Wonderfull!

Here is a laugh for you..

This morning I was out walking before dawn with my lovely wife when she mentioned that a house we were passing by was owned by a foreigner.

Oh really, I asked and, from where?

I think from Holland, or maybe UK, she replied.

Can't be a foreigner if from UK, I said.

Why not? She asked.

Well, I explained, you see UK is England, Scotland, Wales and part of Ireland. It's the rest of the world that is foreign.

Eh? She said.

I explained to her the old joke about Europe being cut off if there is fog in the English Channel.

She is still wrestling with the concept and I fear that it may come back and bite me on the bum later.

Meanwhile her niece arrived at 06:15 this morning with the gift of a chicken, which we will eat for lunch.

As I write this, mum in law is busy tending the herb garden and has just pointed out that there is a star fruit that needs picking. The sun is up, there's a cool breeze and I am sitting outside drinking coffee from my wife's sisters farm in Bao Loc.

My daughter in UK told me on Skype last night that it is cold and raining. Ha ha ha ha.

Yes, this is a better life I lead now than when I was participating in the rat race in UK.

eodmatt wrote:

Thanks 70! So you are Cherokee, or part thereof? Wonderfull!

Here is a laugh for you..

This morning I was out walking before dawn with my lovely wife when she mentioned that a house we were passing by was owned by a foreigner.

Oh really, I asked and, from where?

I think from Holland, or maybe UK, she replied.

Can't be a foreigner if from UK, I said.

Why not? She asked.

Well, I explained, you see UK is England, Scotland, Wales and part of Ireland. It's the rest of the world that is foreign.

Eh? She said.

I explained to her the old joke about Europe being cut off if there is fog in the English Channel.

She is still wrestling with the concept and I fear that it may come back and bite me on the bum later.

Meanwhile her niece arrived at 06:15 this morning with the gift of a chicken, which we will eat for lunch.

As I write this, mum in law is busy tending the herb garden and has just pointed out that there is a star fruit that needs picking. The sun is up, there's a cool breeze and I am sitting outside drinking coffee from my wife's sisters farm in Bao Loc.

My daughter in UK told me on Skype last night that it is cold and raining. Ha ha ha ha.

Yes, this is a better life I lead now than when I was participating in the rat race in UK.

During the 1600's and 1700's, first Great Britain and later the USA encouraged intermarriage, particularly with the "Five Civilized" Nations." One Ancestral line married into the Shawnee in the 1600's and another with the Cherokee in the 1700's. In the early 1800's things changed.

You've undoubtedly heard the old saying, "Scratch a Soldier and the blood that comes out belongs to a Historian."

70 years old wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

Thanks 70! So you are Cherokee, or part thereof? Wonderfull!

Here is a laugh for you..

This morning I was out walking before dawn with my lovely wife when she mentioned that a house we were passing by was owned by a foreigner.

Oh really, I asked and, from where?

I think from Holland, or maybe UK, she replied.

Can't be a foreigner if from UK, I said.

Why not? She asked.

Well, I explained, you see UK is England, Scotland, Wales and part of Ireland. It's the rest of the world that is foreign.

Eh? She said.

I explained to her the old joke about Europe being cut off if there is fog in the English Channel.

She is still wrestling with the concept and I fear that it may come back and bite me on the bum later.

Meanwhile her niece arrived at 06:15 this morning with the gift of a chicken, which we will eat for lunch.

As I write this, mum in law is busy tending the herb garden and has just pointed out that there is a star fruit that needs picking. The sun is up, there's a cool breeze and I am sitting outside drinking coffee from my wife's sisters farm in Bao Loc.

My daughter in UK told me on Skype last night that it is cold and raining. Ha ha ha ha.

Yes, this is a better life I lead now than when I was participating in the rat race in UK.

During the 1600's and 1700's, first Great Britain and later the USA encourage intermarriage, particularly with the "Five Civilized" Nations." One Ancestral line married into the Shawnee in the 1600's and another with the Cherokee in the 1700's. In the early 1800's things changed.

You've undoubtedly heard the old saying, "Scratch a Soldier and the blood that comes out belongs to a Historian."

Nope, I hadn't heard that saying, but I tell you what.... I reckon that your ancestry and your sojourn in Vietnam is worth a threat all of it's own!

I mean, think about it...... The merging of genes from ? with Cherokee Indian (and the history behind that), then a lifetime of travel, soldiering and then meeting and genes merging in Asia, then ..... It's a slice of rich history all of its own!

How about it?

eodmatt wrote:

70 years old wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

Thanks 70! So you are Cherokee, or part thereof? Wonderfull!

Here is a laugh for you..

This morning I was out walking before dawn with my lovely wife when she mentioned that a house we were passing by was owned by a foreigner.

Oh really, I asked and, from where?

I think from Holland, or maybe UK, she replied.

Can't be a foreigner if from UK, I said.

Why not? She asked.

Well, I explained, you see UK is England, Scotland, Wales and part of Ireland. It's the rest of the world that is foreign.

Eh? She said.

I explained to her the old joke about Europe being cut off if there is fog in the English Channel.

She is still wrestling with the concept and I fear that it may come back and bite me on the bum later.

Meanwhile her niece arrived at 06:15 this morning with the gift of a chicken, which we will eat for lunch.

As I write this, mum in law is busy tending the herb garden and has just pointed out that there is a star fruit that needs picking. The sun is up, there's a cool breeze and I am sitting outside drinking coffee from my wife's sisters farm in Bao Loc.

My daughter in UK told me on Skype last night that it is cold and raining. Ha ha ha ha.

Yes, this is a better life I lead now than when I was participating in the rat race in UK.

During the 1600's and 1700's, first Great Britain and later the USA encourage intermarriage, particularly with the "Five Civilized" Nations." One Ancestral line married into the Shawnee in the 1600's and another with the Cherokee in the 1700's. In the early 1800's things changed.

You've undoubtedly heard the old saying, "Scratch a Soldier and the blood that comes out belongs to a Historian."

Nope, I hadn't heard that saying, but I tell you what.... I reckon that your ancestry and your sojourn in Vietnam is worth a threat all of it's own!

I mean, think about it...... The merging of genes from ? with Cherokee Indian (and the history behind that), then a lifetime of travel, soldiering and then meeting and genes merging in Asia, then ..... It's a slice of rich history all of its own!

How about it?

Read too much Kipling as a child and we are getting off topic

I'm so jealous that you fine gentlemen are there and I'm here in Tennessee

First of all I too have enjoyed the posts by Matt & 70 year old on this thread and writing this from my apartment in Sunrise city I can only dream of having a garden with fresh herbs like lucky ole Matt!
Anyway talking about living in Vietnam I am just a newbie in regards to how long I have lived here compared to some on this site, however, when I first came to Vietnam in 2012 then as a tourist, I started in Hanoi and made my way South by train stopping off in various places until reaching Hue, the experience of sitting with locals and sharing food and chatting the best way we could was very warming and interesting, I found the people from the North to be slightly more reserved more stand-offish then those from the South, however, generally all the people I met during that time were very nice.
At the time I never had any thoughts about moving to Vietnam to live..I was happy living in the Netherlands and enjoying the delights of living in Amsterdam... that was utopia for me and to change the subject slightly sometimes when I read the posts on this site from 'Bazza' it reminds me of some of the conversations you would likely have in the coffee shops in Amsterdam when puffing on a strange smelling cigarette, off the wall and over ones head! anyway I met my Wife here in 2013 and obviously the place I wanted to be was here, I enjoy living in Vietnam and mostly everything about living in Vietnam but I will say that its not a country I would be spending the rest of my life in, my beautiful wife and wonderful mother of my daughter is from the Tien Giang province and her family are all farmers and though we often spend time visiting her family which I must say is always an experience and fun especially when half the neighborhood turn-up to see the 'Foreigner' I still have problems sitting on the floor in a position where I can eat properly without making a complete fool of myself, I like drinking some cold beer with her brothers and the wicked whiskey that appears from nowhere in a plastic bottle! I am like one of the 3 wise men when I go there baring gifts for the children and elders and cases of beer for the brothers...its wonderful and its nice that my wife can now afford to give back to her family since she was orphaned at 11 years old and raised by her older sisters, my wife managed to leave the countryside and get further education in HCMC and studied Hospitality and it was in the Park Hyatt that I met her for the first time and after that we communicated until I proposed to her in 2014 on New years Eve. 
My work often takes me to other countries and though I miss Vietnam when I'm away I still don't consider it my true home, my wife is keen to travel and to see what there is beyond S.E Asia, I am lucky to have homes in both the Netherlands and Spain and with my Daughter in Mind I would like her to experience Europe and possibly schooling there, would we return to Vietnam the answer is yes but not to live unless it was the desire of my wife and Daughter..for me I'm like a dead fish...I go with the flow....

Deepsix wrote:

First of all I too have enjoyed the posts by Matt & 70 year old on this thread and writing this from my apartment in Sunrise city I can only dream of having a garden with fresh herbs like lucky ole Matt!
Anyway talking about living in Vietnam I am just a newbie in regards to how long I have lived here compared to some on this site, however, when I first came to Vietnam in 2012 then as a tourist, I started in Hanoi and made my way South by train stopping off in various places until reaching Hue, the experience of sitting with locals and sharing food and chatting the best way we could was very warming and interesting, I found the people from the North to be slightly more reserved more stand-offish then those from the South, however, generally all the people I met during that time were very nice.
At the time I never had any thoughts about moving to Vietnam to live..I was happy living in the Netherlands and enjoying the delights of living in Amsterdam... that was utopia for me and to change the subject slightly sometimes when I read the posts on this site from 'Bazza' it reminds me of some of the conversations you would likely have in the coffee shops in Amsterdam when puffing on a strange smelling cigarette, off the wall and over ones head! anyway I met my Wife here in 2013 and obviously the place I wanted to be was here, I enjoy living in Vietnam and mostly everything about living in Vietnam but I will say that its not a country I would be spending the rest of my life in, my beautiful wife and wonderful mother of my daughter is from the Tien Giang province and her family are all farmers and though we often spend time visiting her family which I must say is always an experience and fun especially when half the neighborhood turn-up to see the 'Foreigner' I still have problems sitting on the floor in a position where I can eat properly without making a complete fool of myself, I like drinking some cold beer with her brothers and the wicked whiskey that appears from nowhere in a plastic bottle! I am like one of the 3 wise men when I go there baring gifts for the children and elders and cases of beer for the brothers...its wonderful and its nice that my wife can now afford to give back to her family since she was orphaned at 11 years old and raised by her older sisters, my wife managed to leave the countryside and get further education in HCMC and studied Hospitality and it was in the Park Hyatt that I met her for the first time and after that we communicated until I proposed to her in 2014 on New years Eve. 
My work often takes me to other countries and though I miss Vietnam when I'm away I still don't consider it my true home, my wife is keen to travel and to see what there is beyond S.E Asia, I am lucky to have homes in both the Netherlands and Spain and with my Daughter in Mind I would like her to experience Europe and possibly schooling there, would we return to Vietnam the answer is yes but not to live unless it was the desire of my wife and Daughter..for me I'm like a dead fish...I go with the flow....

Deepsix, many thanks for an excellent post! Living in Vietnam forever is not everyones cup of tea, thats for sure. My wife and I have travelled to Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia, Laos, Hong Kong, Macau - and now she wants to go to UK. We have discussed her main reason for this, which is to get a better education for our children (we don't have any yet) and I concur with her reasoning. Yet at the same time I have reservations which are that the UK can be a brutal, uncaring, corrupt society and on top of that, the weather is lousy.

Talking of the weather in UK, it's one thing to imagine living in a crisp snowy Christmas card scene and  quite another to suffer the dreary sleet, rain, slush, freezing cold and poor transport of a UK winter.

Recently I posted comments on here about the peace and quiet of where I live in Vietnam. What I didn't post was another reason why I left UK,  which is because where I lived in UK had been a pleasant small village, but the council moved in several thousand people from London slum clearance areas, as well as a thousand or so immigrants.

The village became a cess pit of drugs, drunkenness, fighting and thuggery, buggery and skullduggery within about 5 years. Pubs became no go areas, hypodermic needles became a common sight in bus shelters and in the local parks, there was litter everywhere, the police became scarcer than good manners in a free for all fight. On Friday and Saturday nights I would lie awake listening to the shouts, screams and curses of the drunks going home from the pub. In the morning there would be pools of vomit in the bus shelters and footpaths.

UK isn't all like that, but these are common features of hi density population areas in the UK and I want nothing to do with it.

Despite some of the most draconian firearms laws in the world (handguns are banned outright) gun crime is on the increase in the UK and scarcely a week goes by without reports in the press that the police have shot and killed someone. It isn't necessarily the fault of the police, but it is an indication that things are going horribly wrong in UK society.

For reference: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … itain.htmlhttp://www.expatica.com/uk/news/CORRECT … 67682.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -else.htmlhttp://metro.co.uk/2016/04/10/this-city … 7329/Brits being drunk on aircraft has become, whilst not a regular occurrence, one that happens more often than it should.

The quieter parts of UK are in the main way too expensive for ordinary people to aspire to live in, so it's back to the high occupation areas for the average person.

Sorry to put UK in a bad light, but something needs to be done and the politicians, and people in authority are doing bugger all, except filling their own bank accounts at public expense. The police largely have their hands tied and, since the UK police became a "police service" and not a police force, they appear to have lost the will - and certainly the backing, to take robust action.

Anyway, if I am honest I think I would probably prefer to bring kids up in Vietnam, with all its faults, rather  than UK, which is fast becoming a morally bankrupt society.

Greetings Matt, again another fact filled post and some very true words spoken. I have not lived for a very long time nor will ever live again in the UK and rightly as you made clear in your post it's not a place I would want my Daughter to grow up in. I would most probably feel the water first either in Spain or back in the NL, but I'm always ready for change and if it came to it and my wife and daughter wanted to return to Việtnam to live I could certainly adapt and make it home...... Especially now I found Branston Pickle in the French Deli in Q1 )

Deepsix wrote:

Greetings Matt, again another fact filled post and some very true words spoken. I have not lived for a very long time nor will ever live again in the UK and rightly as you made clear in your post it's not a place I would want my Daughter to grow up in. I would most probably feel the water first either in Spain or back in the NL, but I'm always ready for change and if it came to it and my wife and daughter wanted to return to Việtnam to live I could certainly adapt and make it home...... Especially now I found Branston Pickle in the French Deli in Q1 )

Whoa!!! Where is the French Deli in Q1, please? I might know it by another name. The last Branstone pickle I bought was last year in Hong Kong and it lasted only a week.

I got some very nice Gorgonzola cheese in BigC, Q2 last week BTW. I long for a nice mature Cheddar though, instead of the processed stuff currently available.

I might try Germany, if I really had to live in Europe. Of course that would mean my family learning the lingo - me too as my once almost fluent Deutsche is now as rusty as a medieval chastity belt. But I loved living there back in the 70's and 80's. I went back to Germany a couple of years ago to give a short presentation at the Max Planck institute in Berlin and ended up on Christmas eve having a traditional German Christmas dinner of goose and rot kohl and what-have-you, before flying back to a miserable Christmas in Hampshire.

Incidentally AlegraViajero is apparently coming to Saigon soon if you need some fresh sausages.

And if you should locate a supply of real, sweet garden peas please let me know. I make mushy peas with the so-called garden peas I can buy here, but haven't had decent garden peas with Sunday dinner, for several years now, except in Hong Kong.

@eodmatt

I really dislike the content of your post about the UK, because it confirms the impression that I got during two short(couple of day) stopovers in London a few years ago. I really wanted to be mistaken and the briefness of the two stays gave me hope that I was wrong. Anyway thank you for giving an objective view of UK today. I know that must have been difficult and painful.

Hopefully the UK will come to have a "Đổi Mới" and reform like happened in Viet Nam.

70 years old wrote:

@eodmatt

I really dislike the content of your post about the UK, because it confirms the impression that I got during two short(couple of day) stopovers in London a few years ago. I really wanted to be mistaken and the briefness of the two stays gave me hope that I was wrong. Anyway thank you for giving an objective view of UK today. I know that must have been difficult and painful.

Hopefully the UK will come to have a "Đổi Mới" and reform like happened in Viet Nam.

Sorry to have to confirm your impressions from previous visits, but I can do no other than speak the truth, which is that UK lost its soul, lost its culture, lost it uniqueness in the 1970's.

Visit Germany and you still have the feeling that you are in Germany, there is a sense of Germanness, or pride in culture. France is fiercely Francophone from its cafes to tips of the Frenchmans toes.Holland is still Dutch, even though they do smoke some funny stuff there and Belgium..... well, Belgium isn't quit sure if its roots are in France or dipped in Walloon, but it is still Belgium.

Poland is still Polish even after the dreadful occupation by the Soviets. The Poles have bounced back.

UK is a mass of greed, selfishness, dishonesty, drunkenness, child molesting and political correctness. I lived there for 60 years, served in the army, worked in many countries thereafter and had to watch as the UK slowly lost its character and sank into the mire.

It's sad, but I only speak as I find.

eodmatt wrote:

70 years old wrote:

@eodmatt

I really dislike the content of your post about the UK, because it confirms the impression that I got during two short(couple of day) stopovers in London a few years ago. I really wanted to be mistaken and the briefness of the two stays gave me hope that I was wrong. Anyway thank you for giving an objective view of UK today. I know that must have been difficult and painful.

Hopefully the UK will come to have a "Đổi Mới" and reform like happened in Viet Nam.

Sorry to have to confirm your impressions from previous visits, but I can do no other than speak the truth, which is that UK lost its soul, lost its culture, lost it uniqueness in the 1970's.

Visit Germany and you still have the feeling that you are in Germany, there is a sense of Germanness, or pride in culture. France is fiercely Francophone from its cafes to tips of the Frenchmans toes.Holland is still Dutch, even though they do smoke some funny stuff there and Belgium..... well, Belgium isn't quit sure if its roots are in France or dipped in Walloon, but it is still Belgium.

Poland is still Polish even after the dreadful occupation by the Soviets. The Poles have bounced back.

UK is a mass of greed, selfishness, dishonesty, drunkenness, child molesting and political correctness. I lived there for 60 years, served in the army, worked in many countries thereafter and had to watch as the UK slowly lost its character and sank into the mire.

It's sad, but I only speak as I find.

This actually fits into the Vietnamese political development and where Viet Nam stands in it's democratic development.

While the quote that I am paraphrasing is attributed to Winston Churchill, It originated with Plato. The paraphrase "Democracy is a horrible system of Government (long list of failures of the democratic political process). The only saving grace of Democracy is that every other system of government in the History of the world is even worse."

What Churchill left out of Plato's discussion is that democratic government seems to have a time limit, before sliding first into anarchy, then into despotism. If we date English democracy from "The Glorious Revolution" in 1688, and the overthrow of King James II of England, democracy has had a reasonably long and successful run in England.

I see the development of democracy in Viet Nam as more like England in the early 1700's. I'll also come out of the closet and admit the dirty little secret that, my degrees exist, in this case the one from the University of Maryland Far East Division, a B.A. in Government.

eodmatt wrote:

70 years old wrote:

@eodmatt

I really dislike the content of your post about the UK, because it confirms the impression that I got during two short(couple of day) stopovers in London a few years ago. I really wanted to be mistaken and the briefness of the two stays gave me hope that I was wrong. Anyway thank you for giving an objective view of UK today. I know that must have been difficult and painful.

Hopefully the UK will come to have a "Đổi Mới" and reform like happened in Viet Nam.

Sorry to have to confirm your impressions from previous visits, but I can do no other than speak the truth, which is that UK lost its soul, lost its culture, lost it uniqueness in the 1970's.

Visit Germany and you still have the feeling that you are in Germany, there is a sense of Germanness, or pride in culture. France is fiercely Francophone from its cafes to tips of the Frenchmans toes.Holland is still Dutch, even though they do smoke some funny stuff there and Belgium..... well, Belgium isn't quit sure if its roots are in France or dipped in Walloon, but it is still Belgium.

Poland is still Polish even after the dreadful occupation by the Soviets. The Poles have bounced back.

UK is a mass of greed, selfishness, dishonesty, drunkenness, child molesting and political correctness. I lived there for 60 years, served in the army, worked in many countries thereafter and had to watch as the UK slowly lost its character and sank into the mire.

It's sad, but I only speak as I find.

When was the last time you were in Germany? (I was there in 1978-1980). And you know, I loved it.

However, A lot of the German Expats I know now living in Florida, Say the country went to shit after the wall came down. They have no desire to go back.

Zep