Business etiquette in Hungary

Well, since you asked....

Julien wrote:

In other words, what are the most important things to know for a successful professional integration in Hungary?

My business experience in Hungary:

1) Do not trust what Hungarians say. Especially what your "business partners" say. They will probably try to defraud you. Since you are "obviously" the "rich foreigner" they consider you a legitimate target to scam.

2) Be aware that what Hungarians tell you and what they are actually thinking may be two very different things. Hungarians are socially polite, but that does not mean they tell you what they are actually thinking, which may mean at the end of the day they come across as fundamentally dishonest in a business and social sense.

For example, in this Kalles video, the woman says the Kalles fish paste is disgusting in Hungarian to her companion, but says in English to the person offering the paste that is is "good".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yspCiq3WnU

3) Do not do any business in Hungary if you have not read Rokonok (Relations) (1932) by  Zsigmond Móricz. In other words, deals and counter deals to obfuscate and con you are all too common here. And if you are not aware of that, you can really end up in a royal pickle.

4) Do not count on EU law or regulations to save you if you run into troubles. They can and will ignore EU laws (of which I find they are ignorant about). And the judges in Hungary do not care about precedent. One judge may rule on a very similar case to yours in one way, and then your judge can ignore that ruling and will rule 180 degrees in the other direction.

5) If you run into legal issues in your business dealings I have found attorneys in Hungary are either incompetent or are the victims of the obtuse laws and unpredictable legal system. You can spend thousands of Euros fighting and loosing for what would be your obvious rights in Western Europe.

6) If you do business in Hungary, you have to be a bully. That is, in my experience. This is often only what they respond to. Only that, and lots and lots of money.

klsallee wrote:

Well, since you asked....

Wow, and yet again the exact same things could be said for Romania.  It's quite remarkable how similar the two countries are.

Romaniac

romaniac wrote:

Wow

I admit there was quite a bit of "tough love" in my post. But it would have saved me a lot of time, effort and expense if I had been told these when I first arrived by another long term "street wise" expat. So now I am taking on this role. 

Once one knows what to avoid in any place, one can more rapidly adapt, apply corrective measures, and then more easily enjoy and benefit from the positive aspects that are available in our chosen country of residence (after, all we came to our current home of our own free will, nobody dragged us here.  )

I echo these sentiments - never be in business with Hungarians.

As I said in previous posts, when dealing with anyone and not speaking their and your native language, I suggest being very direct and unambiguous using simple sentences.  It needs to be be polite but tough. The social niceties and nuances will be utterly lost in translation so it's no good relying on a translator to come across with any verbal dexterity.

Regarding the law, the rule here by the judiciary is, if in doubt, prevaricate to avoid stating any liability or even admitting any mistake.  They will drag it out years as necessary to avoid making a public decision.  That's regardless of any rules they may purport to follow. 

My land dispute had a 30 day response time from about September 2015.  That was to an opinion (not that I agree necessarily to their opinion anyway).  And now it's April 2016 and we're still waiting.  Holding up my building work! Mrs Fluffy even went to see the responsible party who complained of overwork.  Like we give a damn how busy they are. If they write 30 days in the law, then it's 30 days, not 300 days.

As the above posters have stated so eloquently, just don't do business in Hungary unless you are a masochist.
Been there, done that , never again!

Considering selling our flat, hope that is the last official business I ever have to deal with in Hungary in this lifetime.Already stocking up on pain med's for the upcoming stress ,drama, trauma major headache.

fluffy2560 wrote:

If they write 30 days in the law, then it's 30 days, not 300 days.

For what it is worth (FWIIW), It took five years to settle one of our property disputes in Hungary.

That includes the three to five months for the official government office to reply under the so called "30 day legal mandate". And that occurred on more than one occasion.

You can sue the government office in Hungary for not following the law. But good luck with that. As you already correctly stated, they will create convoluted excuses to avoid admitting error or fault.

My experience is that nothing, and I repeat nothing, in Hungary will happen in a timely manner. The legal time requirements are often ignored.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

If they write 30 days in the law, then it's 30 days, not 300 days.

For what it is worth (FWIIW), It took five years to settle one of our property disputes in Hungary..

Ay Caramba!   That's not so good.  Obviously I had better not plan for my wall to be moved any time soon.

I reckon the Land Registry will rule some stupid compromise like splitting the 30m2 missing from our land with the neighbour on the grounds that's "fair".   15m2 each.  Does nothing for me other than inconvenience me and my nemesis neighbour.

It'll mean a real financial loss to us and an perceived loss to the other side.  I bet it will be something like that offered as a solution.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I reckon the Land Registry will rule some stupid compromise like splitting the 30m2 missing from our land with the neighbour on the grounds that's "fair".   15m2 each.

From my experience, sue them and sue them now. The longer you wait, the court will ask..

"So, why did you not press your rights?" (Seriously, that is what one judge asked us in one court case, where we acted too nice and did not press our rights -- and because of that we lost the case).

Also, create a copious and never ending paper trail. Have every letter you send done with a returned receipt. And notarize every letter you send.

The only down side is: you may still loose... and to add insult on injury you will have to pay the court costs and the other person's attorney fees. It REALLY sinks. But as I said above, in Hungary, you have to be a bully if you expect to win.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I reckon the Land Registry will rule some stupid compromise like splitting the 30m2 missing from our land with the neighbour on the grounds that's "fair".   15m2 each.

From my experience, sue them and sue them now. The longer you wait, the court will ask..

"So, why did you not press your rights?" (Seriously, that is what one judge asked us in one court case, where we acted too nice and did not press our rights -- and because of that we lost the case).

We have a lawyer on it but we have no idea of the rules and sometimes I wonder if the lawyer knows himself.  We think the Land Registry may its own judicial process which needs to be followed before the court will entertain a hearing.  If it goes the wrong way,  we should appeal via the courts. 

However, I told the lawyer just sue them because there's no point in messing around.   He recommended to see what the Land Registry says since there is a route to court proceedings if they rule inconsiderately.   The neighbours are actually the problem by their objections. It's obviously not a question of money for them.  The amounts in question are relatively trivial.   

It's one of those "nostalgic, romantic blah-blah" attachments to land, history and stability. One cannot negotiate with people who are in that frame of mind.

fluffy2560 wrote:

We have a lawyer ......

{snip}

He recommended to see what the Land Registry says since there is a route to court proceedings if they rule inconsiderately.

IMHO attorneys in Hungary are wusses. Not a bulldog among them. Only interested in procedure. Not necessarily in their client's best interest.

klsallee wrote:

...IMHO attorneys in Hungary are wusses. Not a bulldog among them. Only interested in procedure. Not necessarily in their client's best interest.

I am beginning to feel the same.

Couldn't have said it better!

After I paid my house purchase tax,they waited 2 months then send me the exact same bill again.
When it was time to pay the council tax,they waited 4 weeks then sent me the bill for the previous year which the seller had already paid.

When it came to pay the electricity bill,they send me successive monthly bills,each rising in cost every month. Overall a dodgy corrupt chancers game is being played.

We always go into each and every utility co. in Budapest to let them know we will be out of the country for X amount of months, we give them the current meter readings and pay up on every bill to be even with them, of course they still charge the monthly connection rate, a few bucks here and there.
Last time we let the electric co. know and had them stop mailing out checks ( bills) we arrived back from a long holiday, went in and let them know we were back in HU and they could start sending checks to the flat again.
Almost a year went by with us going in at least 6 times asking where the bi monthly bills were, we never got any more bills from them.
Finally got it straighten out, on holiday now again and will be going back to each co, in person to restart billing, hope this time we don't have to wait a year for our first bill to arrive.
I know you can have these utilities  paid monthly from the bank but we prefer to actually pay cash at pay at the post.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I know you can have these utilities  paid monthly from the bank but we prefer to actually pay cash at pay at the post.

I second that.

Better you owe them than they owe you. 

I could imagine a nightmare of trying to get cash back from disorganised utilities in HU.