Voting in the Referendum on the UK;s membership of the EU

If its an "out " vote the British government will be in no rush ( or obligation ) to implement the vote.
It will be a few months before any changes are noticed or implemented and existing bilateral agreements with countries like Malta and Cyprus would not initial change, if ever.
I wouldn't change any existing plans.

Terry

Terry

Thanks for your reply . Very much appreciated.
😀

tearnet wrote:

Its a big world out there and they all want to trade, the UK is a trading nation and will prosper outside of the EU.

Terry

Leaving the EU would add to the cost of trade though. UK businesses trading with the EU would at the very least have additional compliance costs as shipments would fall within export rules instead of dispatch rules.

Unless a favourable trading position was established with the EU (eg EEA status) then purchasing British goods from other EU countries could attract import duties as well, meaning the cost of buying UK goods goes up and potentially demand goes down. No clarity has been given regarding what the UK's status would be if it left the EU.

This would also affect UK businesses reliant on EU materials or other products, as these products would become imports instead of acquisitions (more compliance and potentially duty costs). Therefore UK businesses could see an increase in costs, which will filter down to the consumer.

Also, the UK benefits from exisiting trade agreements between the EU and other countries which would all need to be renegotiated.

I don't know enough about the demand from other countries to enter into preferential trade deals, but I can't see how, at least in the short term, there wouldn't be additional costs to UK businesses who have an international supply chain.

As others have said, the lack of clarity is so frustrating - how are we supposed to make an informed decision?!

However, Julie- if you are going to move to Malta it will make no difference whether it is before or soon after the referendum, as any changes will take time to implement and there would need to be a transitional period of some sort.

Fi

felinefine81 wrote:

tearnet wrote:

Its a big world out there and they all want to trade, the UK is a trading nation and will prosper outside of the EU.

Terry

Leaving the EU would add to the cost of trade though. UK businesses trading with the EU would at the very least have additional compliance costs as shipments would fall within export rules instead of dispatch rules.

Unless a favourable trading position was established with the EU (eg EEA status) then purchasing British goods from other EU countries could attract import duties as well, meaning the cost of buying UK goods goes up and potentially demand goes down. No clarity has been given regarding what the UK's status would be if it left the EU.

This would also affect UK businesses reliant on EU materials or other products, as these products would become imports instead of acquisitions (more compliance and potentially duty costs). Therefore UK businesses could see an increase in costs, which will filter down to the consumer.

Also, the UK benefits from exisiting trade agreements between the EU and other countries which would all need to be renegotiated.

I don't know enough about the demand from other countries to enter into preferential trade deals, but I can't see how, at least in the short term, there wouldn't be additional costs to UK businesses who have an international supply chain.

As others have said, the lack of clarity is so frustrating - how are we supposed to make an informed decision?!

However, Julie- if you are going to move to Malta it will make no difference whether it is before or soon after the referendum, as any changes will take time to implement and there would need to be a transitional period of some sort.

Fi

That's just it Fi. You are guessing just like those who extol the virtues of staying in the EU.

Why do you imagine that straight away large compliance costs will be levied against us, and that we will become immediately liable for import duties on imported goods and services.

What some politicians conveniently miss from their rhetoric, when saying that if we leave then we immediately submerge into the abyss, is the fact that the process of 'divorce' from the EU can take 2 years. Further, and this is important, we have a larger trade deficit with the EU than they do us and it is therefore in their best interests to get that part of any deal right as soon as is practical. They (the fear merchants) continue to tell us that we have 3 million jobs linked to the EU without telling us that the EU has several million more than that linked to our trade.

Another myth doing the rounds is this constant 'rounding down' of what we give to the EU annually. When presented as we give £35 billion a year the 'stayers' come back and say..."ah but, after you take off the subsidies returned it's only £20 billion". Complete and utter nonsense. £35 billion pounds leaves our shores every year (and it is about to increase massively) to Brussels. If I had £5 and gave it to you and you gave me back £3...I've still given you £5 initially, therefore I had £5 pounds to spend in the first instance. The fact that you have given me back £3 is of no help to me, because that 'gift' of £3 comes with strings attached, I have to spend it as you tell me. If I chose not to give you £5, I am then free to spend it as I wish.  The same analogy is true of our contribution to the EU.  With the £35 billion we 'save' in contributions each year, we could look at those within the UK who have immediate hardship forced upon them through loss of subsidies and then make it good with them...out of that money, and, with no strings attached to it.

Then you talk of delayed and expensive trade deals to come. Hardly, as as I said earlier, it is in the interest of all the other industries in EU to hammer out a deal, very quickly with us as their economies will suffer also and no leader of any EU country is going to allow their economies to suffer. The result could see a downgrading of that economy and then they are in real difficulty as their credit is not as good and goods become more expensive for them. So... to say we would be in turmoil should we leave is just another scare tactic. However, what it would do is open 'FREE TRADE' for the UK to develop its partners throughout the world and not just within the EU. Those who say we will not have the same clout are again clutching at straws; we are the fifth largest economy in the world and the government has put in place quite a few tax and financial rules that allows major industry to remain here - why would they change that. They wouldn't.

This EU trading story is just a scare tactic, thrown out by the remain campaign who treat the average UK citizen as uneducated fools with no concept of real world affairs. I fear they have underestimated the public on this one and hopefully live to regret their scaring.

Finally, how can we NOT be better off having left the EU. The UK regains control of its borders and stops this massively stupid unfettered immigration. Immigration will not stop, it's just that the people who do come to the UK will be those who can contribute and not be a burden to our ever increasingly under pressure public services. These people will be allowed to come to the UK from all corners of the world as well not from just within the EU...so if a computer specialist from India wants a job or a specialist in med or construction from Asia wants to apply they can. They can then enjoy the opportunities that are on offer in the UK without it being a closed shop for just EU people. An opportunity for 6 billion people and not just 500 million. That's a much better foreign policy.

Finally we could reinvest the £35 billion we currently send to the EU (soon to be £50 billion) back into the economy to help offset those hindered by any extra trading costs - again without strings. Put more into our struggling public services like the NHS, the Police and Education and probably have a little left to cut a penny or two off income tax so that the workers and families of the UK can enjoy more of their hard earned cash rather than just giving it away to help subsidise the Eurocrats big dream. People need to see the long term, look strategically instead of short term how does it affect me tomorrow. The decision we take in June will affect my kids, their kids and their kids etc. Let's get it right now so that they can self determine in the future and not be bogged down by the mistakes of their predecessors.

The EU is failing, and I for one don't want to be boarding a ship that's sinking.

Actually I'm not guessing or imagining when it comes to export and import procedures as I have worked in that field for many years. Agreeing trade deals doesn't usually impact the procedure of getting goods in and out of the country, the deals concern the amount of duties and tax due.

I specifically said that I dont know enough about demand for UK products to comment on how easy to it would be to agree said trade deals. I also expressed frustration on the lack of clear guidance available, so I am in no way trying to steer anyone.

You seem to have decided that I am an 'in' voter just because I shared some information regarding potential additional costs. That is not actually the case! I'm an undecided voter trying to get as much unbiased info as posible before I vote. I'm perfectly aware that costs will be saved elsewhere and that it's not all about the money but also about safety, responsibility, growth...

I'm not one to read media views or fall for scaremongering, I research and make up my own mind. Let's hope others are doing the same, but I fear not.

felinefine81 wrote:

Actually I'm not guessing or imagining when it comes to export and import procedures as I have worked in that field for many years. Agreeing trade deals doesn't usually impact the procedure of getting goods in and out of the country, the deals concern the amount of duties and tax due.

I specifically said that I dont know enough about demand for UK products to comment on how easy to it would be to agree said trade deals. I also expressed frustration on the lack of clear guidance available, so I am in no way trying to steer anyone.

You seem to have decided that I am an 'in' voter just because I shared some information regarding potential additional costs. That is not actually the case! I'm an undecided voter trying to get as much unbiased info as posible before I vote. I'm perfectly aware that costs will be saved elsewhere and that it's not all about the money but also about safety, responsibility, growth...

I'm not one to read media views or fall for scaremongering, I research and make up my own mind. Let's hope others are doing the same, but I fear not.

Well said.

However, as it was written is was an easy assumption, for someone who may not have your expertise, to arrive at.  I apologise if you thought I made the assumption that you were in support of 'remain', it wasn't really on my mind. What was though, was the information that you were 'sharing' could lead some to believe that not everything would be 'rosy' on the trade front should the UK decide to vote out.

You make a very good point about the media, they can be as bad as the people peddling the scaremongering tactics. One in particular, I shall not mention (but is supposedly the backbone of everything British) is so 'pro-remain' it is embarrassing to watch.

For me the trade problems (so called or real) are not insurmountable and I'm positive that the great industrial  movers and shakers of all EU nations will ensure that nothing breaks - regardless of the politics. However, what you alluded to earlier about security and growth are the real topics that need unbiased dissection.  First of all growth will happen, it may be a little slow to start but as a Nation we would not allow ourselves to fall into a 3rd world economy. I feel the deals we currently have will be 'fast-tracked' through so as to allow a smooth(er) transition when we do leave - 2 years after the decision. The main concern though is security and this comes in 2 parts. Firstly security for the future of the populations well being, for jobs, education, health, security on the streets and good public services. It is common knowledge, and does not need the services of a statistician, to understand that without halting the projected, unfettered net immigration into the UK (which is estimated to be enough people to fill a city the size of Coventry every year) then these great services, everyone has worked so hard for over many many decades, will collapse under the burden. It's not just a matter of building new housing - it's about the building of everything around those houses to support those new families. With the notion of building on UK Green Belt currently in the news it wont be that long, relatively, before we run out of land and you don't need to have a degree in economics to understand that the economy could not withstand that type of internal growth. The National Debt is still not under control, no matter which party promises to get it under control, and the nation level of unemployment is currently running at nearly 5%.  Local Councils around the country are struggling with reductions from the National kitty and are cutting services. We are living under so much austerity at the moment that should it continue for more than another couple of  years, there is a real fear of unrest on the streets. This is a possible real scenario that would happen across the UK if we have uncontrolled immigration, and now that it's looking more likely that Turkey will have its application 'fast-tracked' that will be another 79 million people eligible for free movement to the UK, for what ever reason they want.

The second part of security is that of protecting our streets, people, possessions and way of life. We are indeed one of the best examples of multiculturalism in the world, the UK is a tolerant and welcoming place. However, there are those in other parts of the world who seek to break that peace and quiet in favour of their own idealism. Recent research, from reputable sources, have shown that literally thousands of terrorists, trained and practiced in 'that' war zone, have already made their way into mainland Europe - we have seen the consequences of some of their actions. Some argue that those who committed those offences were 'home grown' but they still left their 'home' went for training and returned to commit those atrocities. Then there was the story of the young boy raped at the swimming pool by a young man because it was a "sexual emergency", and how those hundred plus women in Cologne, over New Year, felt after being assaulted en masse and throughout the night. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are even recognised minority groups in the UK who say themselves that this would become a problem should uncontrolled immigration be allowed.

There are countries waiting in the wings to see how this plays out. They too can see that the great social experiment is failing and failing fast. Greece, Portugal, Italy, Ireland have all had to have the economies bailed out - speak to those people and see the restrictions now placed upon them by their so called saviours...they are now prisoners within their own 'happy family' community.

There is no unity at all, regardless of what they say in the press. There are 19 different decision makers who have to pass every single bit of dogma pushed across their desks. They take so long to get things done that the idea/legislation is often obsolete before implementation, while they get fatter on their ever increasing salaries and allowances. As a single Nation we could make, take and implement decisions that affect our progress, safety, security and economy without interference from others who only have their interests at heart and not ours.

But remember Fi, we take these decisions not for ourselves but for the legacy we leave our children and theirs. I'm for out (can you guess) but I've come to this after having read and researched educated opinion on the matter. I understand that in the early days there will be uncertainty while we find our feet, but I believe in the long term plan, the future and for me that is to remain a single sovereign entity with control over our borders, economy, immigration, infrastructure, security, safety and future.

Our children will shape how we progress from this - let them have the chance to do so.

Hopefully Admin. will close this topic as it has become a rant by an anti EU campaigner who is not even an expat!  The topic was about being able to vote not about trying to impose an opinion on others.

Ray

+1 for closing this topic, it's become all out tinfoil hattery and off topic

Hi everyone

This topic is now closed for analysis.

Thank you.