New Visa on Arrival policy include 85 more countries

You need to ask with your embassy as nothing is often what it seems.
There are lots of countries now given free VOA into Indonesia but this is not made clear at arrivals (at Jakarta Airport) anyway nor are there any signs explaining this.
All I know is that citizens of the UK can have a 15 day free visa or for  $ 35 a 30 day one.
Hence you need to ask before you come and being some USD in case immigration have changed their mind in the meanwhile.

Thanks Lukereg for the kind information..

Why on earth is the Maritime Affairs Minister involved with foreign tourist matters? 

Hopefully, said Rizal, the extension of the free-entry policy would be able to boost foreign tourist arrivals to the archipelago, which was targeted to reach 20 million by 2019.

Typically in any given year, tourist arrivals to Bali are about 40% of the overall for the country.  As it is, with about 4 million arrivals in Bali this year alone, (10 million for the country), just where does this Minister think we can put 8 million tourists?  And just where does he think the necessary water is going to come from?  Water levels on Bali are already at crisis levels...very serious crisis levels. 

When are these Ministers going to start using their brains more, and looking at their wallets less?

well, if the people of the country would learn how to treat tourists then maybe this all would be a good thing, bt as it is going, its a train wreck!

agent008 wrote:

well, if the people of the country would learn how to treat tourists then maybe this all would be a good thing, bt as it is going, its a train wreck!

And on what information do you base your reply ??

How should they treat tourists and why is it a train wreck as you state.

Any ideas on how, if it is a train wreck, it could be fixed.

What Agent008 meant is simply an offhand remark on the states of Indonesian tourism industry. It is under-developed and half baked, without the necessary investment by the central government and private corporations, it will be some time to see the light of the day of this 'Open up" policy.

Though it is a good long needed policy. This policy is a knee-jerk reactions to propping up the devaluation of Rupiah. The government expected that it will rival Thailand and Malaysia who has already invested hugely in this industry, and way ahead of the curve.

The only successful place in Indonesia for tourism so far has been Bali.
Do you know why Bali is so successful and known to the world. Because as a place, Bali is unique culturally. As a culture it is very different with the rest of Indonesia - more similar to Thailand. Also without the political and religion extremism.
But it is rather small place. I doubt it can hold so much tourists at a time.

In many respects these recent comments regarding tourism in Indonesia are accurate.  There is a huge potential here in Indonesia which goes far, far beyond Bali. 

The reason for Bali's “success” in tourism is two fold.  One, the Provincial government here has full control of tourism in Bali…and two…the involvement of large western organizations (five star resort owners) in tourism development.  Yes our culture is rich, but there are lots of other areas within Indonesia that also have a rich culture, history, and heritage, as well as being breathtakingly beautiful. 

If one studies the history of tourism in Indonesia, there was a time (back in the early 20th century) when Sumatra was a more popular tourist destination than Bali.   

The potential for tourism in Indonesia is boundless, and while Thailand and Malaysia have done a better job recently, neither country holds anywhere near the overall potential to be found here in Indonesia.  Tourism development shouldn't be a race with other countries. 

What I really love about Indonesia is that it has the wisdom to walk first before running.  Taking its time is wise and crucial to prevent development getting out of hand (as it already has in parts of Bali).

Indonesia has a great but untapped potential for tourism.
There are amazing beaches that are pretty much uninhabited, but could easily be developed into tourist resorts.
Big money would be involved, but big money could easily be made.

Indonesia has a wide variety of other things of potential interest to tourists, but the country must clamp down on rip off jobs.

Overpricing for tourists is a big problem - As an ex tourist, the stories about Indonesian traders were all of how they massively overcharged for everything, and there's a lot of truth in it. Enforced price labelling would sort that one out.

“Enforced price labelling would sort that one out.”

Fred, my good friend, with that comment we part ways…no agreement. 

Now, that's pretty unusual for us, but I have solid ground on this.

If one accepts the principles of free trade, democracy, and the rights of individuals, then one must also accept the idea of the right for anyone in business to charge as they please.  If a person in business overcharges, that will sort itself out under the mantle of free trade, viz, competition.  In other words, the businesses that over price will either adjust, or find themselves out of business soon enough.  Furthermore, if you think about it, it is precisely this basis that drives the economies of both our homelands...not fixed, but rather determined by free trade. 

Cheating, bribery, extortion, and corruption are all things to consider, but “enforced” pricing is not, nor ever has been, the answer or resolution to those issues.

Moreover, I don't believe that overpricing within the tourism industry is a significant problem here in Indonesia.  If you really study the most used internet venue for “reviews” on individual businesses involved with tourism…tourist agents, hotels, restaurants, shopping venues, etc., that would be TripAdvisor.  The truth is, over-pricing in Indonesia is rarely mentioned as an issue by the endless thousands who post there.

Tourists are nothing more, and nothing less, than consumers.  In the end, in a free economy, it is up to the consumer to determine a "fair price" and they do precisely that by their buying activity.

I'm an unrepentant Thatcherite, but there has to be some limits, and that, in my humble opinion as far as this point is concerned, is when that overpricing gives the whole country a bad name, as it does in this case.
I support and encourage tourism in Indonesia above the principles of totally free capitalism as the few damage the trade of the many.

One word is important in my post, "Labelling".
I could never support prices being fixed by a government, but I don't see enforced labelling as a problem. The traders are free to set their own prices, just they have to display it.
Customers are then free to decide what and where to buy, the free market remained unimpeded, but the crazy rip off pricing that damages Indonesia's tourist trade is eradicated.
The upshot is, Indonesia loses its bad reputation on this issue, so more money is made by all.

Fred, is there a country which requires price labeling on ALL products or services sold within that country?

In your “home” country or mine, are lawyers (solicitors in your case) required to post their hourly rates outside their office door?  Are doctors required to post their charges in advance of accepting patients?  Are flea market vendors (pasar market folks here) required to price label their wares? 

The fact is Fred that the greatest expenses incurred by tourists traveling to Indonesia, viz air fares and hotel costs, are in fact posted, or “labeled”…to use your term.  And to that you could add menus at restaurants, and warungs. 

Moreover, in your neck of the woods, Jakarta, it is rare these days to run into any vendor of hard goods where the price is not labeled…this being the effect of shopping malls, and of course, the internet.  That is also the case here in Bali. 

I'm sorry, but I don't find any problem with a lack of “labeling” or price tags here in Indonesia.  Moreover, I don't think that “overpricing” is a problem here, nor is there much documentation that it is a problem, (referring again to TripAdvisor). 

The onus of legal responsibility to any purchase “contract” regarding price is with the buyer/consumer, and not the seller/provider.  However that price is conveyed, be it by formal “labeling” or by negotiation via word of mouth or written correspondence is irrelevant.  That is a standard in both English law, and American law as largely derived from English law.

Plenty of countries require product pricing.
In this case my prime interest is the tourist trade in general, not some traders.
I was once green and got ripped off far too much, potentially leaving me with a very bad taste in my mouth regarding the country.
The tourist bars are full of people with similar stories, but blaming all in Indonesia, not just a small number of con artists.
Like it or not, the traders that massively overprice for tourists give Indonesia a bad name.

Fred, exactly who is it that complains about Indonesia's “over pricing?”  And, for what products?

No “free” country requires pricing for all products and services. 

You say that your prime interest “is the tourist trade in general, not some traders.”

Document how the tourist trade here in Indonesia “over prices” and does not “label” its prices. 

With airfare, hotels and food being unquestionably labeled regarding price…what else is there of real concern for tourists? 

Thus far you have only mentioned “tourist bars.” 

Is that something that should be seriously considered…here in Indonesia?

Aren't “tourist bars” world wide a place where water-downed drinks, double charges, and other games to be expected?  Oddly enough the one place here in Indonesia where such shenanigans are commonplace would be Kuta, Bali…and the targets…Australian.  Ironically though, you'd be hard pressed to find many complaints by those same Australians who come to Bali with the sole reason to party, party, and then party some more.   And they keep coming, year, after year, after year.     

“Like it or not, the traders that massively overprice for tourists give Indonesia a bad name.”

OK, that's your view, but I don't see it that way, nor, as I now say for the third time, do I see that view reflected on sites that dedicate themselves to tourist feedback…like TripAdvisor. 

I don't believe for one second that Indonesia has a “bad name” or bad reputation for over charging tourists. 

So, prove me wrong, amigo.

Sadly, from someone who hung around in far too many tourist bars, I can assure you Indonesia doesn't have a good rep, and that's not fair or reasonable.
In fact we both know the real Indonesia, and we both know the people here are generally friendly, nice and have a genuine welcome for strangers, but reality and stories in tourist bars aren't always the same thing.
Perhaps the beer isn't watered down enough.

The tourist bars were in KL, not here, and the story was almost always the same.
Someone had visited Indonesia and been ripped off for something or another.
A lot were stories of men in Jogja who roamed the streets trying to con tourists (I'd had them at me), trying to rip them off in whatever way, but some were how shops or restaurants ripped them off, leaving them with a bad impression of Indonesia as a whole.
One guy in a wartel did me over before I became familiar with the cash - I was green, and I got done big style.
I realised it was just a few out of thousands, but others just return to KL or whatever tourist bar they next visit and tell how "Indonesians" are all rip off artists.
Jogja, to their credit, stamped down on the 'agents' some years ago, and none had a go at me the last few times I've visited that lovely city.

Another moan was "The place is full of terrorists", but there goes the western press for you.
Brainwashing is easy, the truth is a lot harder to get out to people.

Toying with the idea of retiring to Jogja in years to come because we both love the place.

No “free” country requires pricing for all products and services.

Not always services, but go to any shop in the UK and you'll be hard pressed to find one without accurate pricing on all products because it's illegal not to.

I gotta agree with Ubudian. I think in every tourist location you need to keep your wits about you no matter which country you live in. I really cannot see any major problem with overpricing in Indonesia and I don't really see people getting ripped off in a major way. Admittedly I don't go to bars so I don't hear some of the stories being told, but possible the type who do visit bars like to tell their stories or exaggerate a little after a few beers.

Much of what they say is likely to be beer fuelled rubbish, but so many people told me not to visit Indonesia for the reasons stated.
They were way wrong, but that's exactly what they were saying.

Yogya is a great place to live and stay from what I have heard. My wife has a painter mentor over there, who has established small gallery there and Ancol as well.

I would like to say the Negatives for Tourists currently is:
- undeveloped infrastructure and transportation
- capacity building for popular frequented places
- walkways for pedestrian lacking
- tourism budget campaign supported by provinces lacking
- One price for tourists and One price for foreigners in informal/formal places
- traffic jams
- used to be a hostile visitor visa policy, however it has been corrected now.

What the future holds still has potential.
For example, In the 1980s I visited Bali, and found it is such a backwater place and wonder how boring it is and why people would visit.
Over the years, it has become an international hub for Indonesia, flying direct to many parts of the world. Basically it is still one of the nicest place in Indonesia at the moment.

“For example, In the 1980s I visited Bali, and found it is such a backwater place and wonder how boring it is and why people would visit.”

That's an interesting comment and very reflective of the old line, “to each his own.”  You might be surprised just how many folks who knew Bali back then only wish that it was the same today.  Those folks would include both expats and Balinese.

Ironic too, that from the end of WWI to just before the start of WWII, Bali was considered the most appealing and exotic travel destination in the world.  You can only imagine how “backwater” Bali was back then.  During those same years more than fifteen photo illustrated books were published about Bali…more than any other similar travel destination in the world.

enduringword wrote:

Yogya is a great place to live and stay from what I have heard. My wife has a painter mentor over there, who has established small gallery there and Ancol as well.

I would like to say the Negatives for Tourists currently is:
- undeveloped infrastructure and transportation
- capacity building for popular frequented places
- walkways for pedestrian lacking
- tourism budget campaign supported by provinces lacking
- One price for tourists and One price for foreigners in informal/formal places
- traffic jams
- used to be a hostile visitor visa policy, however it has been corrected now.

What the future holds still has potential.
For example, In the 1980s I visited Bali, and found it is such a backwater place and wonder how boring it is and why people would visit.
Over the years, it has become an international hub for Indonesia, flying direct to many parts of the world. Basically it is still one of the nicest place in Indonesia at the moment.

I kind of disagree with quite a lot of what you say. I think Bali in the 80's was pretty amazing. And many of the negatives that you mention....well you can find all those things in Singapore. I'd hate Bali to become more organized like Singapore.

Bali is pretty unique, although we can draw a lot of comparisons to Thailand. Many of us like it because it is "rough" and not perfect. That is half the fun of coming to a place like this.

Thanks to Raffles, there is no cultural continuity to Singapore, or to Malaysia either for that matter.  Forced (or at least engineered) immigration from China and India into both areas during the 19th century diluted whatever cultural “purity” still existed at that time.  Moreover, Malaysia's cultural history is primarily that which was introduced by Indonesia during the ancient dynasties.  This is not opinion, rather, this is historical fact. 

Of all Asian and SE Asian countries, Indonesia (and not just Bali) retains far, far more of its cultural roots, traditions, and way of life. 

Without question, it is Bali which has undergone the greatest degree of change and modification from outside influence.  This is obviously most evident in the southern areas of Bali.  But that trend is slowly changing, and outside of the southern areas of Bali, the “pure” traditions still thrive, and still define daily life.   What happens in the future is anyone's guess, but the appeal of the “almighty dollar” will be very difficult to overcome.

I visited Bali in 1975 and found it to be a a wondrous place. Did not get back again until 1998 and the difference was noticeable

I go along with post #22 from Ubudian.

Hansson, well...

I am perhaps quite biased towards how it was in Indonesia in the early days. Growing up, I hated seeing much of the poverty around. Plus there were other problems too etc.

Actually Bandung was nice in the early days. The cool morning air. I have some nostalgic days.  Now it is just terrible. I dont quite understand the attraction for people in Jakarta to visit there during weekend. The roads are always so packed and you circle and circle the same roads. With the high speed rail being approved from Jakarta to Bandung, it will only gets worse. Perhaps next, they need LRT or MRT. But I doubt there is room for growth on infrastructure in Bandung.

When I was in Bali during the early 1980s, I might have some less than good experiences. However Bali is more affluent now and more 'polished'. But I agree becoming something like Singapore is not ideal.
Singapore is like an expensive and superficial place. Great for a short time vacation only. Longer than that, you see everything is the same. 

To be frank. Indonesia has very few places to go to, that is ready for foreign tourists/domestic tourists.
China on the other hand, has so much to offer on different provinces. If you travel province by province, you will be amazed at the rich culture you encounter.
Perhaps you can glimpse it by watching this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bite_of_China

My ideal countryside to retire or enjoy would be Japan (inaka). Orderly, minimalist, clean and serene surroundings.

There is this one great movie.
Little Forest: Summer/Autumn & Little Forest: Winter/Spring
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3474600/

Anyway, everyone seeks differently.
For me, I yearn something different of an experience at now. Perhaps it is what everyone goes through as well some time in their lives.

Enduringworld, I certainly agree with you about Japan. I was last there in November and will be visiting again next month. Usually go there 3 or 4 times a year. But it is funny because whereas I would like to live there again one day, many Japanese that I know, Japanese expats are happy to live away from there because they are scared of earthquakes and tsunamis.

Yes Bandung has traffic problems in certain areas, especially in Setia Budi and Dago on weekends when half of Jakarta comes over. They come for the cool mornings which I enjoy everyday but also for the shopping and the food. But you should know that Bandung is historically a tourist destination since the days of Dutch colonialism. It is what it is, and I choose to live here because I love it and because there are not many foreigners living here.

By contrast I would not consider living in Jakarta or BSD or Pondok Indah, but I do go there now and again as it is so close to visit friends, family and for other reasons like concerts, trade fairs, shopping and meetings.

Bali on the other hand is a beautiful and culturally rich place, so natural and undeveloped back in the 80's but now so full of foreigners everywhere you go. I love Bali but I choose to visit it frequently for breaks rather than live there. The south in interesting but very commercial and actually tiring. North of Batubulan is wonderful.

More about why I love Bandung.....I have almost no stress at all here. People are so friendly and polite, not like in Jakarta or Medan. They are not used to seeing bule. The food is amazing. The mountains are very close and the morning air is fresh and cool. Often we have lunch in restaurant gardens because it is cool. Traffic can be a problem unless you know the small roads and shortcuts, and fortunately most of the Jakarta drivers stick only to the main roads. When I drive on weekends it is always the Jakarta cars who drive dangerously and break the rules, not so much the locals here. Here we give way to other cars, we don't try to speed up to avoid letting other cars enter the main road, we don't try to overtake everything that is moving too slow. But Jakarta drivers always do that.

Basically, living in Bandung is like living my life as a local, and I am sure that Ubudian can appreciate this. Bandung is a beautiful city that feels like a small town, full of colonial bungalows and villas on the mountainside, cute restaurants, spas, markets and parks. I am just so happy here, and very glad that not to many foreigners choose to live here. Property here is pretty cheap. I mean really cheap if you search around. A few hundred million for 200m2 land with house in downtown Bandung or for a villa in the hills. In fact we now plan to buy more villas to rent out to Jakarta people on weekends. It is a good life here.

About the high speed rail, that idea was scrapped and it will be a medium speed train replacing the slow ones. I don't really see that as making a huge difference, perhaps cutting down the journey from 3 1/2 hours down to 2 hours. Jakartans who arrive by train do not cause traffic jams so it doesn't really make much difference.

Totally agree with you about Singapore, great for a few days shopping and nice to get back to civilization for a short while. I love Singapore but longer than a week and it is no longer interesting.

I have lived and worked allover Asia in the past, but the most beautiful and interesting place for me is Indonesia. I love the way it is not overdeveloped and how friendly the people are. I thought long and hard about where to settle down in Indonesia and Bandung seemed pretty good. Other cities are either too remote/quiet or uninteresting or too stressful or commercial. I really love Bandung!

A good discussion, and with lots of insight and honest introspection.   

Got the visa at airport for free believe me and it is quite easy only problem is the validity only one month so I need to be going out of the country every time

Immigration will get funny if you leave Indonesia every 30 days as they will want to know why and what you have been doing. It might be worth while paying for a 60 visa the next time you leave or vary your countries you fly into because again the arriving countries immigration might also ask too many questions.
Finally​ make sure you don't over stay 30 days and remember the day of arrival and stamping into Indonesia counts as the first day here.