What is difference between "Saigon Network" & "HCMC Network" in forum?

they are not...for many reasons

where do you live in Saigon or HCMC ?

Saigon is D1, D3, D10 , big part of D5 and a bit of D4...The rest is HCMC.

Those who are real Saigonese , still call it Saigon , the rest who are not from here  and are living outside the districts mentioned above use the name of their district or provinces ..TP. HCMC is spread within three provinces .. so in fact on the street is very rare to  hear someone really using HCMC as for place to live .

@babelentertainment

I happen to disagree with the points that you made, but I think to dispute them would be to digress from the central issue which I think is definitely more about ease of use of the Expat.com site.

I think the thread was started in particular  reference to the fact that Saigon and Ho Chi Minh City are listed separately on this site. So if, for example, someone is looking for a flat under "Saigon", they would miss out on those offers listed under "HCMC".

I think you have to agree that in the context of foreigners arriving in Vietnam, aware of both names but unaware of particular colloquial usage and local history, it is misleading to have both, especially given the considerable ambiguity of the name Saigon.

Alternatively it would be quite a sizeable campaign to insist that every user refers to those areas according to your definition and to know one from the other!

@ Expat admin team

Please take a minute to consult a few common knowledge sources regarding the history and political geography of an area in which you have a ton of members. I find it frankly embarrassing that it's taken you this long to realise this nonsense, not to mention that it exists in the first place.

This could be pushed if all the members who use that section were to add their voice of support on this thread, showing it was a real problem for them.
As the site exists to be useful to expats, I'm sure a lot of posts in support would spark the admin's interest in the issue.

@Fred

Thanks Fred. I trust you'll let them all know?

Der Ech wer Singht wrote:

@Fred

Thanks Fred. I trust you'll let them all know?

Not really.
If members read the thread and care enough to bother either way, they'll post their opinions.
If they don't give a fat rat's arse, they won't bother.

Admin are aware of this.

@Fred

I suppose for the clarity of the website and its users, we'll just have to hope that the people who know about the issue and give a rat's arse are more than than people who don't know and don't care, yet still add comment

Sort of up to the members to express an opinion or, if they're disinterested or uninterested, not to bother.

If lots of members suggest it's a good idea to merge, the admin will take notice.
If very few people care, no point in changing.
Equally, there may be voices in favour of the status quo (and other excellent rock bands).

After 5 days, your suggestion doesn't seem to be popular, but time could change that.

Regardless ,

in any way I have a point ...People are aware of the difference and the housing ads in both sections speaks for themselves...In Saigon section you have about 30 -40 pages of ads in total , while in HCMC section you can find over 230 pages ...So you don't have to worry , people knows !


Peace & Merry Christmas

babelentertainment wrote:

Saigon is D1, D3, D10 , big part of D5 and a bit of D4...The rest is HCMC.

I just cannot understand some points;

- If they didn't give a new name to the city as "Ho Chi Minh City" years ago, then today how we will call "D1, D3, D10 , big part of D5 and a bit of D4" and how we will call "the rest"?

- Today is it possible to say that after you across the bridge from D1 to D4, you cannot find "Real Saigonese living there" ? ...of course not possible..(Just I know many of real Saigonese living in D4, D7..etc).. So where is the reasonable explanation to separate both names in today's environment?

According to my idea, it is just making a useless separation and extra difficulty for communication of people here;

Although they are living together in the same city (probably across they from the same streets everyday, visiting the same restaurants, shopping from same big market places), they must be separated into different web pages here... There is no logic I think.

All I'm saying is:

Yes ! The history is a complicated thing and it makes  life complicated it's self....  and yes, like it or not , the fact is that  very few Saigonese leaving outside the districts I've mentioned because this was Saigon before 1960.... and yes,  the fact is that is those who don't use the name "Saigon " are not saigonese and they are not Southerners...and this will go on  until few more generation disappeared... It is that simple . Those living outside  D1, D10, D3 ,D5, D4   ARE NOT saigonese, even though big percentage of them are Southerners and I can bet 90 % of them used the name  Saigon  in their daily conversations. Those who don't use Saigon as a name  are not from the South !

If you wonder what will be called Saigon today outside those districts...It would be call Saigon Metropolitan or Greater Saigon and most people will use the names of the districts they are living  in  but there would  be NO CONFUSION about the name of the city...

If you still don't get it, than  I cannot put it more clear for you...

@babelentertainment

As I understand it your point seems to be: "Saigon exists because I hear it being referred to everyday and if I have somehow approximated the limits of the city as it was in 1975 in relation to its current official configuration, then why shouldn't any person wishing to come here do the same?"

The fact is, legally Saigon doesn't exist, either as a province, a city, a district, a ward or even a street. It's name lives on only in language and thus is ambiguous and open to interpretation by various generations, not only Vietnamese, both north and south, but also notibly by the French and the Americans (and their allies), as both had a substantial presence in the city at different times in the last century.

"Saigoners" have their definition of what areas can or cannot be defined as 'Saigon', as is natural; people from outside the region have a different one. But the critical point I want to make - because it's relevant to the website - is that people outside of Vietnam - educated expats who come here for the first time - assume Saigon to be the old/alternative name to the settlement officially known as Ho Chi Minh City. And for all intents and purposes that is right.

Out of interest, I used your suggested source of information and looked at the first 40 housing offers on the HCMC and Saigon pages. I tallied up the ads according to their location within your defined areas (SGN being D1, D3, D5, D10 and the more central part of D4, HCM being D2, D7, Binh Thanh and the rest).
This was the result (you can check it too)...

In the Ho Chi Minh City rentals:
SGN 14 (35%)
HCM 26 (65%)

In the Saigon rentals:
SGN 15 (37.5%)
HCM 25 (62.5%)

The proportional split is virtually identical in both pools, and means that at least half of the people using the site to post ads either don't believe there is a difference, aren't aware of the difference or assume that their target clients don't know the difference.

Bearing in mind these ads are made by local agents or experienced expats, I'm not so sure your assertion about other people's awareness is accurate.

(Furthermore, I can only imagine real estate agents would be jumping all over the "Saigon" listing if they knew expats defined the more central area as such)

Lastly I just want to make a hypothetical case of a similar scenario to the one you are propagating should remain:

Imagine "New York City" and "Manhattan" had different listings, where under NYC you could list ads for Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx, Staten Island, but everything to do with Manhattan had to be listed under that name.

Errr... Why?!

Okay so then imagine they have to that and that's just the way it is...

But Then Manhattan Is A Real Place With An Official Name And Borders Within The City Of New York Defined By Law!!!

Saigon...well it just isn't. It's a name which refers to many things and nothing all at once.

Is it treasonous to suggest the merging of the Ho Chi Minh City and Saigon pages to one which states simply "Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon)", just as the airlines landing here do?

Just think of how much more would be achieved without having to post everything twice or look in double the amount of places (that's just counting those who are aware of the duplicity). There could be Peace on (this side of the) Earth this Christmas...!

For what it's worth, I do agree with your roughly defined area of Saigon prior to it's 'merging' with Gia Dinh Province.

Which all kind of ties in nicely...

A merry Yuletide to you and your gia dinh, sir

Guys this thread needs to die and go away. In the past 5 years the question has only came up twice. The last time was a little over two years ago. The owner of this site, the wise man he is has decided that both names will be listed on the forum period, end of discussion.

YES he is indeed a smart man,. he did a right decision ..Both name should stay,  regardless that Saigon " legally do not exist "

Peace

@budman1

Thanks budman1, I'm relieved that this isnt new ground, although all the young expats I have spoken to have been unaware of the split and subsequently surprised when checking the fact.

Do you happen to have a link to said thread?

Do you remember the reasoning behind the decision, assuming that it's final?

I'm intrigued as to whether it was separated on geographical grounds, as I think @babelentertainment is trying to insist, or some other reason. Perhaps joining the two was just too complicated an operation to perform?

Young man,

I never insisted that expat.com separated the two sections for any particular reason , as  I am not the one running this site. What I was trying to explain was the difference between the name Saigon and HCMC , and why both are correct and used regardless of the circumstances! I only  emphasised that millions Vietnamese and foreigners still using the name Saigon and they don't think beforehand if " lives on only in language"  , nor they questioning themselves if Saigon  " legally exist " or not , before they use that name. Therefore, there is nothing wrong of having two different sections.

If people are lazy to go true and look up both sections, is their personal choice.

I also think we have had enough comments on this thread..No need to discuss any further .   

Good luck searching

Budman1 wrote:

The owner of this site, the wise man he is has decided that both names will be listed on the forum period, end of discussion.

So his decision is end of discussion and we don't have any rights to say more words after that?
is it what you say? )))
(Or even if we say something is it not very important according to your approach ? )

If he is really "wise guy" I think before everybody he will disagree about your approach. Because "being wise" is equal to "never ending thinking in different ways and never ending discussions"..
And this is "A Forum"...equal to " A discussion platform" ...that "wise man" built it...

I think you should read and think again what you wrote ..

The 'wise guy' is Julien. It is his website. Why not just ask him why the sea is boiling hot
and whether pigs have wings?
https://www.expat.com/forum/profile.php?id=2〈=en

TalhaSami wrote:

Budman1 wrote:

The owner of this site, the wise man he is has decided that both names will be listed on the forum period, end of discussion.

So his decision is end of discussion and we don't have any rights to say more words after that?
is it what you say? )))
(Or even if we say something is it not very important according to your approach ? )

If he is really "wise guy" I think before everybody he will disagree about your approach. Because "being wise" is equal to "never ending thinking in different ways and never ending discussions"..
And this is "A Forum"...equal to " A discussion platform" ...that "wise man" built it...

I think you should read and think again what you wrote ..

Like it or lump it,Julien is the owner and creator of this forum his decisions are final.Any such decision is not taken lightly and he will make a considered decision based on information gathered.

TalhaSami wrote:

Budman1 wrote:

The owner of this site, the wise man he is has decided that both names will be listed on the forum period, end of discussion.

So his decision is end of discussion and we don't have any rights to say more words after that?
is it what you say? )))

The forum belongs to Julian, so his rules apply.
However, he's a decent bloke and always willing to listen to suggestions, especially if those suggestions are backed up by a lot of the membership.

If only one poster wants change, but the rest are happy with the situation, not a lot is likely to happen.
In this case, you's have to ask local members to post support here, but the vast majority will have seen it by now and would have posted if they were interested enough to do so.

It's looking like your idea is of little matter to most, but it's still Christmas so many posters may well have hangovers and/or still be munching on leftover turkey and chips.

Hi,

just to tell that I'm in favor of merging both cities. This is just the opinion of a random forum user.

I personally didn't notice the split at the beginning, so I posted sometimes in HCMC, sometimes in Saigon. At some point I said myself "Weird, the forum is pretty dead lately". And at this moment I realized a few things:
- forum is split between HCMC and Saigon
- HCMC is much more lively and has much more people than Saigon
- so where should I post when I want to address people living here ?

Instead of asking if merging would make sense, I'd rather ask the question: does the split make sense ?

This is a real question, I'd be happy to have real answers from forum users. Are there some cases when you say yourself "Oh, I will definitely create a topic in the Saigon forum. It would be completely out of place in HCMC section. ". Or for example, you're looking for something, and you're like "Oh, I'll look for that in HCMC, this is where it belongs. No change I'll find that in Saigon".

So, maybe some people here are happy that the split exist, and make good use of it. Maybe the split makes their life easier when using the forum. And I'll be happy to hear from these guys, because maybe I'll learn a better way to use the site then, and in the end I will also be in favor of the split.

@Budman1

Hey this is just a friendly discussion, there's nothing wrong with talking and sharing point of views, right ?

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. We've still got many bugs on the new platform, we'll then see what we can do about Saigon & HCMC

All the best,

Julien

Thx for your reply Julien. Good luck with the new platform, it works great already

Fred wrote:

TalhaSami wrote:

Budman1 wrote:

The owner of this site, the wise man he is has decided that both names will be listed on the forum period, end of discussion.

So his decision is end of discussion and we don't have any rights to say more words after that?
is it what you say? )))

The forum belongs to Julian, so his rules apply.
However, he's a decent bloke and always willing to listen to suggestions, especially if those suggestions are backed up by a lot of the membership.

If only one poster wants change, but the rest are happy with the situation, not a lot is likely to happen.
In this case, you's have to ask local members to post support here, but the vast majority will have seen it by now and would have posted if they were interested enough to do so.

It's looking like your idea is of little matter to most, but it's still Christmas so many posters may well have hangovers and/or still be munching on leftover turkey and chips.

Julien has owner of forum and he is also sensitive about ideas of forum followers,..because forum can be only with these followers..

stumpy wrote:

TalhaSami wrote:

Budman1 wrote:

The owner of this site, the wise man he is has decided that both names will be listed on the forum period, end of discussion.

So his decision is end of discussion and we don't have any rights to say more words after that?
is it what you say? )))
(Or even if we say something is it not very important according to your approach ? )

If he is really "wise guy" I think before everybody he will disagree about your approach. Because "being wise" is equal to "never ending thinking in different ways and never ending discussions"..
And this is "A Forum"...equal to " A discussion platform" ...that "wise man" built it...

I think you should read and think again what you wrote ..

Like it or lump it,Julien is the owner and creator of this forum his decisions are final.Any such decision is not taken lightly and he will make a considered decision based on information gathered.

Julien has owner of forum and he is also sensitive about ideas of forum followers,..because forum can be only with these followers..think again "His decisions are final" sentence, he needs satisfied followers to run the forum...right?