Why is Indonesia so Appealing to You?

I like Scotland, but I wouldn't want to live there. A lot of heavy drinking and violence, freezing temperatures and flooding, and then there's Alex Salmond....

I'm with you 100% Hansson, even though my ancestry is Scottish.  I'll take Bali any day, and besides, it's real easy to put aside the kilt for a sarong.   

Haha....I guess it is 

Yes as I expected ill informed and bigoted at least I lived here before passing judgement. As for drunkenness  I have never seen so many drunk sad excuses for human beings as In Bali. The UK has the lowest murder rate in Western Europe and the safest roads just behind Germany. Indonesia does not keep centralised records on either. Look I know you love Indonesia and probably have indonesian boyfriends/girlfriends and families and we could trade smart comments till the cows come home but frankly children grow up DILLIGAF my friends I leave you to your heaven while I return to mine.

GJF wrote:

Yes as I expected ill informed and bigoted at least I lived here before passing judgement. As for drunkenness  I have never seen so many drunk sad excuses for human beings as In Bali. The UK has the lowest murder rate in Western Europe and the safest roads just behind Germany. Indonesia does not keep centralised records on either. Look I know you love Indonesia and probably have indonesian boyfriends/girlfriends and families and we could trade smart comments till the cows come home but frankly children grow up DILLIGAF my friends I leave you to your heaven while I return to mine.

I hope you have a nice flight back to Scotland. Will you be leaving soon?

There really is no need to devalue this thread or the opinions of someone who sees things differently about Indonesia.
Rather than goad why not just leave it there and move on like GJF is.

So are you saying that GFJ has not devalued this thread but that I have? Duh!!!

No I sometimes find it depressing that unless everyone fits in with a certain set of beliefs about in Indonesia then it is assumed they are wrong or misguided.

True and agree very much so....
All that glitters is not gold.

However...

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye,
but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

To each on their own really. Let's not get so serious about each other formed opinions.

It is a tad difficult to understand a claim about drunks in Bali from a man who comes from an area with a very high rate of alcoholism and drug abuse.
I wonder who the drunks are, locals or holidaymakers.

lukereg wrote:

No I sometimes find it depressing that unless everyone fits in with a certain set of beliefs about in Indonesia then it is assumed they are wrong or misguided.

Luke I totally agree and I absolutely accept criticism about Indonesia without any problems at all. I am not one of those people who talk about it as a paradise. There are so many problems in this country. But I enjoy it, the good and the bad, probably as you do. And even for you it must seem worse because I remember that not so long ago you were worried that new employment laws for English teachers were risking that chances of you staying in Indonesia. Things like that can really make one think twice about how nice a place this country is to live.

But in my opinion GJF not just having a different opinion of Indonesia, he was slagging off Indonesia as a whole with the intent to piss people off. Read again his comments.

Personally I viewed GJF's rant on Indonesia as being almost incomprehensible and incoherent.  And to be honest, it sounds very much like the sort of manifestos that I've heard often times from past expats who simply didn't make it here for one reason or another…and at the same time, were unwilling to accept even partial responsibility for that failure.

Moreover, the way he started his rant immediately turned me off:

“You are truly deluded my friend…”

Who exactly was that comment direct to? 

The rest of his manifesto is nothing more than vague accusations without specific references to whom or what he is referring.  In short, I have no idea what bugged this person the most…our notorious bad driving, or the poor quality air standards.   

Moreover, I don't appreciate having comments and accusations, such as being xenophobic or bigoted, being slung in my direction by someone who has absolutely no idea who I am, or what I am about. 

Luke, this isn't about folks having bad impressions or not finding a good life for themselves here in Indonesia.  Rather it was a scathing rebuke to those of us who have in fact succeeded here, and who give back to Indonesia all, if not more, than we have gained by our life here.

I say to him, good riddance…and don't let the door bump your arse on the way out.

Quite simply, his manifesto gives me all the clues I need to understand why things didn't work out for him here in Indonesia.   

I miss Indonesia very much.....sadly we left in October 2015 and we now have re-located to Portugal........while living in Bandung for nearly 14 years ***

I rarely see people on T******** arguing. Probably that was why you got booted off. It's better to just leave your advice on the Forum, do your reviews and leave it at that. Don't take it personally. It's probably a sign that you are spending too much time online on Forums.

As for Bandung, I like it but it's hell on the weekends. Lembang is alright but a lot of the restaurants and sites there are very overrated. Kampung Daun is nice though.

A couple of years ago I assisted a reporter in doing an analysis of various forums pertaining to Indonesia.  I found ***to be among the most inaccurate and useless.  Moreover I uncovered several specific and documented cases of outright abuse of their section providing reviews.  Those abusive reviews were for some specific restaurants in Bali where posters had been paid or offered other incentives to write negative reviews about them by owners of competing restaurants. 

Some complaints filed with *** regarding abuse of their forum and reviews can be found here:

complaintsboard.com/complaints/tripadvisorcom-newton-massachusetts-c130200.html

Hansson wrote:

I rarely see people on *** arguing.

Is that because they always agree with each other, or because they get booted off if they don't follow the official line?
Just a thought.

I can't comment on **, but I know many magazines and sites take cash for comments.
You'd be shocked to see some reviews of consumer electronics I've read over the years that must have been penned by Enid Blyton or someone else noted for especially crappy fiction.
Many places will happily print lies in order to make cash.

Fred asks, "or because they get booted off if they don't follow the official line?"

Bingo!  Getting the boot happened to me as well.  ** isn't about the truth or accuracy.   

Cheers amigo!

Ubudian...many thanks..your answer is much appreciated....Fred your thought is spot on....there's a small team of regulars on the Bandung TA forum......they agree with each other...they back each other up...anyone who disagrees is taken off.......its been going on for several years  now.......let's hope its only a matter of time that these adverse comments about Bandung come under the Indonesian legal Radar....

BTW, as a follow up observation.

In all my years of 24/7 living on Bali, the hands down worse corruption I've witnessed or became aware of was between expats to other expats. 

Favenchi...who knows, maybe one of these days you'll find your way back to Indonesia!

Cheers!

thank you......I WILL return....

favenchi wrote:

thank you......I WILL return....

I'm hoping I never have to leave - I just love Indonesia so much.

Of course there are less than perfect things here, but the good is a million times more than the little bad.

Hidupla Indonesia Raya.

Fred wrote:

Hansson wrote:

I rarely see people on *** arguing.

Is that because they always agree with each other, or because they get booted off if they don't follow the official line?
Just a thought.

I can't comment on **, but I know many magazines and sites take cash for comments.
You'd be shocked to see some reviews of consumer electronics I've read over the years that must have been penned by Enid Blyton or someone else noted for especially crappy fiction.
Many places will happily print lies in order to make cash.

I don't know Fred. If I leave a comment in the Forum on **** I just skim through the past few comments and then make my own honest review. I haven't seen any arguing. I see contrasting advice and opinions but no arguing or interaction between forum posters. I just add my own comment if I think my knowledge is relevant. I do not click to be notified about further comments and I never go back to those Forum topics, Once the comment is left then I leave it at that.

I travel all the time around Asia so I do leave reviews but the only problem I ever had with TA is when they suspended me for a week because they thought I was the owner of a cafe giving a review of my own establishment. That happened over a year ago, and the funny thing is that I left only a 3 out of 5 rating on that place and criticized the food. I complained to TA in Singapore and after a few weeks they eventually admitted it was their error but without an apology. But the annoying thing is that they keep emailing me invitations on various offers as the owner of that cafe. I keep emailing them back to complain. I used to know the boss of TA Singapore a few years ago but he is no longer there so I suppose the customer complaints staff there are not very good.

favenchi wrote:

.let's hope its only a matter of time that these adverse comments about Bandung come under the Indonesian legal Radar....

If you think defamation is a possibility, report the matter to the local authorities.
Indonesian laws are harsh.

legally what has been published on TA, Fred is definitely defamatory...Yes I did report this to several entities, including the Bandung Mayor......whereas action is sometimes taken against local people for stating something (the authorities deem naughty) on Facebook......they do no seem to have any interest in taking on the US based Trip Advisor. A good person to person chat with the Minister for Tourism would have perhaps been the best course of action...alas I ran out of steam and I am now in Europe.....but Yes I do care for Indonesia and I will continue to promote the country and people to my utmost.

The Minister for Tourism lives 5 houses down the road from me. I know the Mayor too. He is really passionate about improving Bandung but it is very hard work because there is so much red tape to get through. I don't think that either of them would be interested to do anything about *** because they have really busy agendas and hearing complaints from a foreigner and being expected to take action is just not important enough. Bandung has a huge amount of tourists coming from Jakarta and Malaysia all the time. And also more and more from places such as Japan and Singapore. The hotel business is booming, as is the restaurant business and the outlet shopping. Those who know about Bandung don't need to read reviews. Others find it interesting enough because of the cooler climate, tea plantations, Kawah Putih and all the other great places to see. And the reviews and forum comments about Bandung are not all bad at all. Most reviews and comments are excellent and praise Bandung.

Bandung is packed with cars every weekend and holidays, especially Setia Budi, Lembang and Dago. It is doing very well for itself irrespective of negative comments that a few people might be saying on *** . Their comments probably don't make a lot of difference. The problem with Bandung these days is coping with the large amount of tourists with cars from Jakarta and tourists from other parts of Indonesia and Southeast Asia. This is the challenge for the Mayor, not really some negative comments on ***

Sorry but I cannot see this as being a big enough problem for the Mayor or Minister for Tourism to spend time on as I also do not see that it is making a big impact on tourism in Bandung. I also wonder if you should be complaining about **** on expat.com . It seems weird. Just my opinion though, and as always, no offence meant.

not going to be drawn into any more deeply on this (Hansson)......I was a freelance correspondent for the BBC for many years.......I never reported mis-truths.....in retirement I will continue to speak up for the people of Indonesia....I will never sit by and see hard working people insulted.........

favenchi wrote:

not going to be drawn into any more deeply on this (Hansson)......I was a freelance correspondent for the BBC for many years.......I never reported mis-truths.....in retirement I will continue to speak up for the people of Indonesia....I will never sit by and see hard working people insulted.........

BBC - Name dropper

I really like your post, but my being a massive fan of Indonesia should make that less than a shock.
I know Indonesia has its problems, show me a country that doesn't, but the good so massively outweighs the bad over here.
The big thing (apart from the delicious sambal) is the people of this great country, and their amazingly friendly nature with visitors. I've been here a good few years now, but their welcoming smiles never cease to amaze me.

I see so much good here, and so much potential, I can't help but love the place.

It seems my opinion was shared by David Bowie who will have his funeral on Bali.
I was shocked to the point of incredulity when I found out he sang in Indonesian as well as English.
One hopes the sad news of his death will bring some good to the people of Indonesia by increasing the tourist numbers as his many fans come to visit the island where his ashes will be scattered.

Favenchi, My own relationship with Indonesia stretches back almost 40 years. I actually love Bandung as you can see from my many posts here and in other threads and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in Indonesia. For me it is the perfect balance between a rural and urban lifestyle. I've invested in property here and I am looking for villas to buy in the Lembang area. That is how devoted I am to this city and it's future.

I always see bad reviews of establishments in TA, not just in Bandung but everywhere else, but I personally rarely give bad reviews unless I feel they are deserved, which is seldom. I always try to be truthful as I believe everyone should be.

If there are a group of idiots who like to systematically give bad reviews on TA then I haven't seen them but I think it is a real shame. I admire you for trying to take them on, something I wouldn't really want to spend my time or effort doing. But I do admire your integrity and passion for trying to correct a wrong.

I wish you luck in returning to Indonesia one day.

I have only passed by Bandung, hardly stopping at all, but I see I'm going to have to visit the place properly.

Fred wrote:

I have only passed by Bandung, hardly stopping at all, but I see I'm going to have to visit the place properly.

Haha...better make it on a weekday if you want to avoid the traffic jams 

My mother and her siblings were born in Bandung. My father's nine siblings were born in Bandung as well. And many of their partners too.

Bandung has been a special place for our family generations.
We used to travel there when we were kids.

Heh... I agree these days to appreciate Bandung, one has to choose weekdays or non public holidays.

What strikes me most is that.... Local Bandung people are more friendly than Jakartan. I hope they stay the same after all this time.

Their local language is soft. I never quite master it. Very different from Surabaya language which is terse abrupt short sentences.

Bandung's new airport is supposed to be opening at the end of this month. The old airport was in dire need of modernization and was too small, particularly the arrival area. I'm looking forward to seeing the new one and I am sure it will help in Bandung's image and development. The other problem is the runway which is too short, that's why planes landing need to brake strong and early on. Pilots really do not like trying to land at Bandung. Not sure if there is any possibility of them extending the runaway though.

that new terminal will be a big help...the airport is one of the busiest on Java......Indeed the runway is not long enough for the really big jets......it can only accommodate passenger aircraft such as B737 and Airbus A320/319.(and various prop-jets)..nothing larger except for STOL military aircraft. Final Approach at both ends of the runway is heavily built-up....can be quite an "adventure" for passengers looking out the window  before landing and seeing Istana Plaza just below. I have seen reports in the past of plans for a completely new Airport for Bandung.....but most of the news focus now is on the new terminal building. Heavy braking and even reverse thrust is needed to pull up a jet full of people...

when answering questions about Public Holidays in Bandung....especially by those who only could visit at this time......I would always suggest they could stay in Central Bandung.....at an hotel near or at Jalan Braga....or at the Bandung Hyatt (or nearby to this hotel)......if the visit was for shopping there are plenty of factory outlets, and even the Yogya Department Store where prices are definitely lower than Singapore or Malaysia....Sightseeing can be on foot, especially the Braga which has buildings dating back to the Colonial Times.....there are 2 Art Deco Style Hotels, the Preanger and Savoy Homann...The Asia Africa Museum which is free....going to the Volcano and/or Lembang on a public Holiday is still possible......you just need to be up early....and have a good driver...then return to the City early afternoon. I never would tell potential visitors not to come.....many of these are people who only have a few spare days to visit....Bandung is packed on the weekends....but the locals are out and about and it is good to mingle.....All the places mentioned I like very much and I hope to re-visit sometime in the not too distant future.

Fred it is indeed wonderful to know that David Bowie loved Indonesia so much....the people are of course the greatest asset.....You can talk to anyone.....there'll always be lots of smiles...and many like to practice their English....
I am still on the Virtual Tourist website (It is sort of owned by TA, but not controlled by TA).....I wrote about another world famous celebrity who visited Indonesia in the early 1930's...he was here for 3 - 5 weeks.....He took Movie Film both on Java and Bali...he was enchanted by the people...and he wrote about it in book "A Comedian Sees the World".....None other than Charles Chaplin... http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/c4ac3/     Others to visit Java in the 30's included....actress Claudette Colbert and author George Bernard Shaw....

I like it when the famous respect their audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuehrF0rQa8

Favenchi, you'll enjoy this true story of another very famous musician, none other than Michael Jackson who visited Bali several times. 

On his first trip, sometime in the late 70's or early 80's my wife's uncle was his driver here on Bali, but he really didn't appreciate Jackson's celebrity status.  In fact, so unimpressed and lacking “star stuck” behavior, this eventually led to Jackson asking Pak Made, “do you know who I am?”

Made answered Jackson very directly, and in typical Balinese fashion…“no I don't, but I can take you to a wartel, and you can call home to your mom or dad and ask them.” 

For those relatively new to Indonesia, a wartel was a telecommunications center where one could use a telephone for international calls.

Absolute classic.....thank you so much....love it..

Classic