Why is Indonesia so Appealing to You?

Dita Mignonesia wrote:

somehow it made you think that you are superior and then telling us what to do and how to live our life.
Let Indonesia be Indonesia & let Indonesians be Indonesians.

Hang on, girl.
You've been hanging around with the wrong people, so have the wrong Idea.

The real expats on here don't have anything to do with that daft attitude, so it would be better if you'd refrain from making spectacularly silly comments that border on the bigoted.

I recall reading on one forum how one 'bule' poster thought all Indonesian girls were demi prostitutes, easy to get to bed and just as easy to catch diseases from.
I explained if you stick your head up your arse for long enough, all you can see is poop, so he should probably stop hanging around the bars in the Kuningan city area.

May I enquire as to where you hang out, please?

At first I didnt want to get involved.... But I had to interject on here.

Dita did mention her opinions are based on personal basis.
However, I felt that many Indonesians had too much a narrow view of the outside world and always blame 'foreign' (asing) influence. And constantly adding the religion factor becomes too much of a self delusion or misconception of how the world really works.

It all comes down to self esteem and protectionist/ defensive attitudes. It is easier to blame outside forces for the ilk/problems within. Easier to find a scapegoat, rather than find a better opportunity for self improvement or transcends change.

Ok all of the above becomes too much leaning on political discussion. I am hoping this is presenting a more well balanced view on cultural component discussion as well on my side here - to even things out.

It takes years for an individual to realise what is out there in the world.
A lifetime to appreciate the many commonalities and varieties on offer, and to choose to open up their minds or to stay closed to preconceived ideas and notions.

I also do not really want to get involved in the disagreement here, but I just wanted to say that I can see that both sides have very valid points.

The fact is that not all expats are the same. We all come from different backgrounds and come to Indonesia for different reasons. There are those more respectable expats who come as professionals for their work, or for retirement or simply to enjoy the country's beauty and way of life. And then there are those who are act superior and look down on the locals or have drifted around the world and eventually end up in Indonesia, and as Dita says, are stingy (I prefer to say "living on a budget"). I would probably include some expat oil field employees in the latter group and nationals from several less developed countries who want to come and live in Indonesia to escape a poorer lifestyle in their own countries.

So rather than making an argument out of this, I think we should just accept that there are both good and bad expats in Indonesia and move on to listening to others about why Indonesia is so appealing.

saintjean wrote:

Dita, that is the more accurate and honest analysis of bule in Indonesia that I have ever read in this Forum! Congratulations for truly understanding the bule in Indonesia and the bule here in this Forum. You have my deepest respect.

Frankly, I find the bolded part of your post total crap, and you should be ashamed of yourself for typing it.

She said

As far as I know, foreigners or bule who come or decided to live indo- altho they often act like a king in our country, are actually not the best quality in their own country.

I know some bule do that, but I have nothing to do with that foolish attitude, as is the case with Luke and Roy (See their posts in many threads).

The stereotyping by some posters here is rather disturbing, and as stupid as the stereotyping of other groups we so often see on social media and in the press.

Pathetic bigotry is a total waste of time, and usually leads to conflict, even violence.
Get real, open your mind and accept the universal truth - People are people, regardless of race, sexual interest, religion, colour, gender, or any other box you want to put them in.

The level of silly bigotry on this thread is enhanced by the thread title, "Why is Indonesia so Appealing to You?", a thread clearly intended to promote our love of this country and its people.

Fred, everyone is entitled to their opinion and the ladies were just expressing theirs as they see it. Quite possibly as women they see things differently. And let's face it, this is a male dominated forum with sometimes quite sexist comments.

Let's not get abusive, and how about we cool off and invite other members to express why they find Indonesia so appealing? I for one would love to move forwards and hear from others.

“I know some bule do that, but I have nothing to do with that foolish attitude, as is the case with Luke and Roy (See their posts in many threads).”

Just for clarity Fred, could that be re-written to read,

“I know some bule do that, but I have nothing to do with that foolish attitude, nor does Luke and Roy (See their posts in many threads).”

As for your comment relating to what Saintjean wrote, I think it's clear that she is on some sort of agenda.  That has become rather obvious in a number of threads, including this one:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=542887

“And let's face it, this is a male dominated forum with sometimes quite sexist comments.”

Male “dominated” or simply a forum having a majority of male posters? 

Hansson, I understand your reluctance, but I for one would like to see some examples of what you regard as “quite sexist comments.”  I'm not trying to confront you, rather, if this is truly the case, then those who engage in these “sexist comments” need to consider changing their approach.  So, with that in mind, perhaps continuing with this facet of the discussion makes sense?

Good morning to you Roy.

Indeed I am very reluctant to get drawn into any lengthy discussion on this matter which is already rather off-topic. But I believe those who do make sexist comments (and in most cases they are made lightheartedly) know who they are.

"A majority of male posters", yes of course. "Male-dominated", yes I would say so. But then this is just my personal opinion and I really do not want to get drawn into a discussion that quite frankly is uninteresting and petty.

I would however say that making generalized statements criticizing expats is wrong, especially when using the words "often" or "most". I would instead like to see the words "sometimes" and "some" used.

And good morning to you too!   

OK, I respect your reluctance to comment further, and I'll not press you on this.

However, I am concerned about this “sexist comment” issue because I'm not as certain as you are that those who you say engage in this necessarily “know who they are.” 

I also want to raise the possibility of “sexist comments” being misconstrued for adult style humor.  And to that I would further add that in my experience of life in Indonesia, this type of humor (on a moderate level) is wide spread in Indonesia, and enjoyed with a healthy attitude. 

For certain this forum is not an adult content forum…but it is a forum for adults, so a little “off color” humor is in my opinion very much in keeping with Indonesian culture. 

In my world, a sexist comment is one which is designed to make either a woman or a man uncomfortable and to limit a women's freedom of expression or behavior.  A sexist remark also has the intention of taking a woman less seriously because of her gender. 

Ironically enough, and I know for certain that a number of readers will agree with me…the only overt sexist comments I have read on this entire board in recent months were in fact authored by a woman (an expat)…and those comments can be found clearly stated in that same thread I linked to earlier.

Apologies for pressing this a bit more with you, but you in fact brought this up…so, is it fair to raise an issue and then to back away from providing clarification? 

Sure, it's your right to refuse to comment further, but as I ask…is it fair?

Ubudian wrote:

OK, I respect your reluctance to comment further, and I'll not press you on this.
......................
......................
Sure, it's your right to refuse to comment further, but as I ask…is it fair?

That would be likened to beating the dead horse topic, wouldnt it?

Having quite a lot of time invested in this forum, along with a handful of others, I have a concern that some posts are being perceived as being sexist.  None of us veteran posters would like to see this happening, so why is it so hard to understand that?

This other topic, albeit a side bar, is relevant insofar as it has to due with maintaining the open community aspect of this forum…which is vitally important to us.

After investing a comparable amount of time posting here, you may likely feel the exact same way.

Why is Indonesia so appealing to me? Well currently its not as much as it was so I am removing the So and will try again. Why is Indonesia appealing to me?

When I chose to come here it was to explore another Asian country that I had not really heard of and to take up a completely different form of employment. After 3 weeks, I decided that I could stay here for a lot longer than my initial years contract and so started to settle down. My first impressions of palm tree lines streets, endless sunny days that were hot and humid with a constant supply of cold beer and happy faces have never left me.
8 years on and its still all there. But how everything has changed. I got engaged here, married here and had my first child here. My wife who is Indonesian was one of the first people I met. I met her after work in a coffee shop in Senayan. We have been together ever since. She is a reason that keeps me here. My son is another,the palm trees and sunny days are more.
The people, some. The lifestyle?, not really as its no worse or better than being home. Is it cheaper? sort of. Am I happy? Yes everyday as there is more to be happy about here than back home.
I live in one of the most diverse cultures and environments in the world and that cant be beaten.
Thinking back to life away from here and its problems such as; crap boats, dodgy planes, rubbish buses, lack of care, poor sanitation, bad education, lethal alcohol, overspending, overeating, poor medical facilities, bad air, filthy rivers, flooding, intolerant people, religious fanatics, terrorism, corrupt officials, incomprehensible rules, drugs, dangerous fireworks, too much MSG does sound a lot like here in fact its almost the same but everyone speaks a different language and smiles more and accepts their fate.
So perhaps I swapped one existence for another, but despite all the things that can go wrong have gone wrong for me, I don't want to leave. I want to see my family grow up, I want to settle here somewhere and live life quietly, I want to be chased by tigers, scared by Jungle men, alarmed by booming volcanoes, laughed at by the locals, amused by the randomness of life, bemused by the red tape, feeling less stressed, enjoying the sun and haze and everything in between.
Why is it appealing to me? Because being in Indonesia has taught me more in 8 years than 30 something years in England about life, living and how many exciting and mysterious things there are still to be discovered.
Being English I can choose to moan and groan about everything as that's what we are good at. But actually nothing really matters so I stopped that. Being happy matters. Indonesia makes me happy. Its as simple as that.

Best post on this thread...no question. 

Thanks Luke for all the thought and heart that went into your post! 

Selamat!

Hey guys no disrespect but its known that some Jakarta girls like to to hangout out in coffee shops like J.Co in Senayan just to try to hook up with foreign guys. I traveling to Jakarta all the time and know many of them who are doing it and success rate not bad. Sometimes a gal gotta use her head to get on in life. I say who cares as long as both of them is happy. But sad me - I'm still single 

FannyLoh wrote:

Hey guys no disrespect but its known that some Jakarta girls like to to hangout out in coffee shops like J.Co in Senayan just to try to hook up with foreign guys. I traveling to Jakarta all the time and know many of them who are doing it and success rate not bad. Sometimes a gal gotta use her head to get on in life. I say who cares as long as both of them is happy. But sad me - I'm still single 

One consequence of that is the men I mentioned earlier who assume Indonesian girls are whores.
These men never meet girls other than ones who'll sleep with them in an attempt to catch a rich bule, so they assume all Indonesian girls are the same.
Using your head to get on in life is good, using other parts of your body is less than a good idea.

All this does is get the sort of foreigners at least one poster is complaining about thinking Indonesian girls are easy to get to bed, producing loud mouths who make Indonesia sound like a whore house, and Indonesian girls who regret what they've done, producing loud mouths that moan about foreigners.

I'm happy to report, all the expats I know personally don't hang in the crappy bars, and it is my pleasure not to know any such girls.

Perhaps my positive view of Indonesia is because I know what this country's people are really like, not just a demi drunk's narrow version because he only ever meets gold diggers/prostitutes in bars.

In fact, the vast majority of Indonesian girls I know are lovely people, commonly sharing a very positive attitude to most things, and managing a smile even when things are bad.
The same pretty much applies to most of the Indonesian men I know.

That's one of the main reasons I love this place, the people are fantastic.

Quality expats in JCO! And to think all those times I sat in Coffee Bean alone with my cup of tea and cake and I could have been chatted up over a frozen yogurt by some random strange women. Damn I need to lower my standards of tea.

hm have you tried to live in Kemang tho, Luke. 

Some bules just act like a king, thought real Princes are in UAE, Roy.

I wouldn't want to live in Kemang. Can't see a reason too. You?

Why not? so you can get best house, best foods, sanitation, no peps staring at too you maybe blah blah

Kemang floods, it is over priced, full of narrow roads and there is too much concrete. There is also a lot of building work at them moment and personally I don't find the area appealing.

I wouldn't want to live in Kemang. Can't see a reason too. You?

No way.
I really dislike the way so many people behave there, locals and bule.

It's a sort of plastic version of Indonesia,  but it's handy for bule who want to get drunk, and sort of local girls who dig for gold.

I'm interested in neither.

Um wonder if Roy, Luke and Mas Fred are one package? When there is Roy, there is Luke and there is Mas Fred.

Btw, I know a bule called bule miskin by locals.
But that is not the point, things is he often criticize Indo and its peps especially on the net saying that Indo is backward, the 3rd world country, corrupt gov etc etc etc -many bules said that actually, everything about this country and its people are negative to him, while I know he actually live in Indo with social security from his country- this is one of the reasons why he complains about pricing in Indo I guess :p,  about the foods, the place he rent, legal pappers , complain about this and that because he actualy not afford to pay so ofc he his place is out of standar or 3rd world country like he said because he cant pay a decent one. Duh!
Or maybe dont want to pay coz all his gadgets are Apple. :p (am thinking of corruption considering his source of fund )
When I asked him- and other bules who act tajir but no money or irit and pelitt, who likes to complain about this that of Indo and its peps) , I asked if Indo is so bad why dont you all leave the country and they simply reply me with those innocent faces like, "oh I am married with Indonesian",  or " my kids is half Indo and his mother lives here -**** :p, or " I was posted here in Indo"  blah, blah, excuse excuse
This is maybe just some of the stories I come accross

Talk about being treated like a king, I went to kampung and I suddenly become "famous" , always on their spotlight too and they treat me super duperrr nice always, I think they threat me like a queen .
So its always the same things except when you live in big town when everyone have many options to "worship" so dont be GR or sotoy cuz even so locals in kampung or pinggiran are not dumbs. They know your situation but why would we humiliate their guests in public? its not polite, its rude. 
Even my parents taught me to treat our guests the best we could. No matter who.

Hope with how people in daerah can access informations a lot more easier now, Indonesians everywhere wont treat bules naively anymore; thinking that they all visit our country with good intentions or attitudes, rather their experiences'-goods and bads, hope will make Indonesians more and more critical.

Oh btw,  read somewhere here, who wish me meet a prince bule ? Well, no prince bule will date me because I can speak English.

Dita Mignonesia wrote:

Um wonder if Roy, Luke and Mas Fred are one package? When there is Roy, there is Luke and there is Mas Fred.

Not at all, but we are triplet brothers, all be our places of birth separated by a pond and a language.
Luke and I are native speakers of English, but Roy is American.

We do have a tendency to think in similar ways, all believing we should try to be part of our adopted country, not try to change it to suit us, nor attempt to be superior to anyone.

As an example, I commonly buy my maid an ice cream when I pop to the shop to get one for the rest of us - I try to be kind, so hardly ever beat her and only with a small stick when I do.
I'm a kind, considerate employer.

More seriously....

Roy and I are seriously committed to Indonesia, and we share a great love for this country and its people.
Is it backwards? No, but a few changes would be good for everyone and we should try to help as appropriate. That doesn't mean we wish to force Indonesia to become a little mirror of a western country, more try to suggest the best of what we have, but keeping all the best of Indonesia (and that's a lot of stuff).
Of course there are things in Indonesia that could be better, especially the roads, but I'd hate this country to become a little Britain or America because it would lose its best features.

Edit - I can't really comment on Luke's commitment as such to Indonesia, but I know he loves the place and I know he's committed to his Indonesian family - and that isn't much different.

Hm. Which language? what I said there is the fact.
Something weird is going on here..so defensive omg

Dita Mignonesia wrote:

Hm. Which language? what I said there is the fact.
Something weird is going on here..so defensive omg

You used the F word.
There's nothing weird about not having a dirty mouth.
Some forums are fine with bad language, but that isn't the case here.

I am a nobody here in Indonesia, just a foreigner who decided to come here to live. I have no intention of suggesting trying to change a single thing here and I positively have no power at all to influence any anyone of much importance.

It's would be like telling the Government here that they do not know what they are doing or how they should be doing things. It is highly disrespectful in my opinion. It's not unlike Indonesian nationals going to the US or Canada or the UK and telling your own countrymen how they should improve their country. So unless any of us are officially advisers or consultants to the Indonesian Parliament, then we should not act as if we have any say at all in the way this country does things.

For all of us foreigners living here, since we really like Indonesia (otherwise we wouldn't be living here), just sit back and enjoy the country. Accept the good with the bad. Don't pretend to be important people who can change things here because I seriously doubt that any of us have any ability to propose changes to the way this country is run.

I'm here because my wife said England was too cold, so I moved here instead.
She was right, and it's all worked out very well.

The people of Indonesia have been fantastic .......and the food is great.

Hiduplah Indonesia raya.

Of course there are some things which could be better, as Fred says, the roads are not always very good. Trains could be better too, but I hear that is in progress. Same for Jakarta traffic, and the Metro is being built, so things are definitely improving but at it's own pace. Nobody suggests Indonesia should change in any way except in it's own way.

I'm impressed with the rebuild of the train stations on the commuter routes.
From the mess of just a few years ago, the railway company has stopped all the roof riding, dumped the bad rolling stock, and is in the process of rebuilding the stations.

A great credit to Indonesia.

Add the new toll road system and the improvements to the traffic system in Jakarta, and we're seeing a massive improvement in Indonesia's infrastructure.

Indonesia is doing a great job.

One last time.

Foul language and/or racist/bigoted/sexist comments are unwelcome on the forums.

This is a mutual help forum where we try to understand and accept all groups, regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, skin colour or anything else.

We don't do hate here - Live with it.

Hansson writes,

"So unless any of us are officially advisers or consultants to the Indonesian Parliament, then we should not act as if we have any say at all in the way this country does things."

How about having citizenship and enjoying the right to vote?  Should those "expats" have a say in your opinion?

To a certain degree I do agree with what Dita says, but I believe this is a small minority of Expats and foreign tourists who behave in this manner. And this is not something unique to Indonesia, it is something that happens allover the world, look at Thailand and Philippines, look at Eastern Europe and everywhere else where there is poverty and where the dollar talks. I think it is as much the responsibility of the local girls who want what they believe westerners can offer them be it a lifestyle or financial gain. Everywhere that you see an Asian girl on the arm of a westerner you could ask yourself who is taking advantage of who, or is it just two people who have found happiness? Whatever, it is a bit of a dead end discussion because no two situations are alike and you cannot generalize on this.

Hansson wrote:

To a certain degree I do agree with what Dita says, but I believe this is a small minority of Expats and foreign tourists who behave in this manner................
............. I think it is as much the responsibility of the local girls who want what they believe westerners can offer them be it a lifestyle or financial gain.

One of the things I like about Indonesia is, there isn't that much of that stuff about ... unless you hang around in the bule bars.
I don't, so I don't have to bother with it. I went to one once, and it's staying at once.

Another thing I like the the lack of drunken and drug fuelled fools. There are some around, but not that many and they tend to stay out of the way.
That means a far lower crime rate than I was used to in my home country, and that's worth a lot.

Hansson,

Im still curious about your prior statement:

"So unless any of us are officially advisers or consultants to the Indonesian Parliament, then we should not act as if we have any say at all in the way this country does things."

Would you say the same regarding expats who become citizens and have the right to vote?

Actually, I am quite ashamed with the many nicer things that "outsiders" can see exist in Indonesia. The feeling that the grass is always greener on the other side, might hold true for me and failed to appreciate what is or there is that exist.

For many years, I dont value being a citizen of the country. I never voted till I was back and in my 30s. Since then I voted and my votes has managed to be always been synced with the popular vote locally and nationally.

Interestingly, there were progress made and there were setbacks in the country.
I think true democracy as a whole is nuts. Nothing gets done when you have too many opposing interests.

What stood out as most remarkable is the press.
Indonesia as a whole has a very strong vibrant freedom of the press. And in comparison with other neighboring countries, it is still a star and way ahead.
It has not always been so. It was because of the repressive previous regime, that we could enjoy these now.

So my advise is that. Don't be afraid. Advise, criticize and provide constructive feedback. If you believe in it, express it. Just don't need to troll 'us and them' mentality.
It is open to everyone.

One the things I love about this country that I now call home is the food. However, one of the foods that I love the most is Nasi Padang and unfortunately this food can be lethal.

My mother in law recently had a stroke and was told to eat more healthily. She is from Padang and her elder siblings have mostly passed away from strokes or heart related problems. The fact is that Padang food is extremely unhealthy. All the various sauces used are from very rich coconut milk and are extremely high in cholesterol.

In fact a doctor friend of mine in Jakarta said that the Government should ban Padang Food as it is a serious health risk....I took it as a joke, but I've mentioned before that Padang people die young due to their diet. Most Indonesians love Padang food but don't eat it that often as it is more expensive than other local foods.

The result is that I have recently become more health conscious. I've taken to walking around the block three times each morning, that's s total of three kilometers a day (I have gotten lazy driving  everywhere). I have taken to drinking only water and tea without milk or sugar (no more Torabika 3 in 1 every morning), and I now limit Padang food to once every 2 or 3 months. I'm eating salads or sandwiches with mainly salads, baked beans on toast, fresh veg and fruits and eating at home more than I used to.

The fact is that it is so easy to eat too much of the amazing Indonesian food, but rather than have high cholesterol or risk getting a stroke or heart attach, it is better to eat it in moderation and get a bit of exercise daily.

You are truly deluded my friend, i have no desire to remain in Indonesia, I do not see the daily threats on my life from poor driving and dreadfull air quality as contributing to my inner peace, your society attitutes towards your poor and disposessed are shamefull and frankly your middle class or middle teir of earners in your society practice a modern day version of wage slavery. If I want lessons in corruption and graft there is no finer place to be. Let me say this however I love my country (Scotland) and I applaud anyone who feels the same way about there own homeland. Are there good things about Indonesia? of course there are, just like there are weaknesses in my own society I would urge you and others to recognise that in your own country otherwise you will never improve the quality of life for your citizens. I do not make sweeping statements as many of the contributors have done in this thread about foreign nationals, it is digraceful to think that this sort of xenophobic rubbish is directed towards any group just because they are percieved as a homogenous group, they are not, among my ex patriot friends there are at least 12 different nationalities. By the way the reference made to the variety and quality of food on offer is risible, in every major european country I can sample cuisine from every part of the globe, cooked and served to perfection, outside Jakarta the choice is limited and based on and driven by economic imperatives. i have lived here as part of my life journey those westeners who choose to remain will without doubt see this country as preferable to their own and for their own reasons, thankfully we are not all the same. The contributors to this thread need to grasp that fact.