Immigration threat to all of us

Thanks for starting the topic,  we can talk about world events but we are not talking about US politics here. 

Remember it must relate to the DR and not the US or any other specific  country.  How does this effect us here or potentially effect us here.

I am not against legal immigrants. I am against uncontrolled borders & the cost to the DR in health & quality of life. When the hospitals are over burdened with illegals taking up the services from Dominicans I object strongly. The latest suggestion to place almost 300,00 non natives  into the social security system will mean bankrupting the whole system.. The rapid rise of disease such as TB & Cholera alone should produce health screening at the borders. However, with open borders it is all to no avail. The huge amount of new population put an unsupportable strain on the system. There are no easy solutions, hard decisions must be made & acted upon with alacrity.  Failure to do so will change the quality of all, the rich & the poor alike.  The DR is blessed to be a country without racism, but with increasing problems, the horizon is not so bright.  I'm concerned with the people of Haiti, they must somehow work to solve the problems of their country & do it at home.  Rational thought & rational action is what is needed. Let us hope that it can be accomplished.

Ok, so we have no "open boarder"  as such. What we have it corruption where they can "pay" to get in.  It has to stop.

Our medical system is already strained to the point the public system does not work.  Adding however many to the  gov't system may actually help as remittances from employer and employee then start. As it is now they ALL use the public health care system anyway!   There is a lot to this situation and I don't understand it all.  Legally if you are on my payroll I must register you in the system!

Now as to racism honey, you have not been here in years and not sure what your life was like back then but I can tell you racism is alive and well here in the DR.  It is not only alive it is blatant at times!   You can see it almost everywhere. 

For example - at one of my worksites we have a very dark young man who is Dominican. Everyone on that site teases him about being Haitian. He takes that teasing easily as he is used to it.  Once he had to got to Santo Domingo to update something with the gov't. We had to send a senior employee with him to make sure he was not taken away for being a Haitian!  They were at that point rounding up people thought to not have their ID in place.  That was very real for this young man.  They take these people and ask questions later.  He was teased about taking a suitcase with his prized possessions in case he was picked up.

In addition when the crappy jobs have to be done - they flow downhill so to speak to this young man.  And it is because he is darkest. We have casual labor staff at the moment and even they think they can order this fellow around. It is the nature of things here and this young man doesn't think there  is anything wrong with it. I however do and I step in whenever I see it. 

That is just one of many examples I can give you.

The huge influx of Haitians has caused this. Before a dark skinned person was called Moreno, not in hate ,but as a discription. As pressures mount so do the differences become more apparent.  Present events have created this proble. I don't believe that it is an inherent part of the cultural history of the DR. In the past it was predicated on the stature in the society, between the rich & the poor., the haves & the have nots..   That will never change until everyone sees another for what they are, not who they are. Tough times are ahead of us. They are unlike any we have known before.  To weather the coming storm we must approach it we open eyes & mind, never giving in to mob mentality. The road to understanding is not a paved road.      Planner, thanks for the EB info.

While I agree that terms like Moreno are common here,  they are just descriptive words.... I do not agree with you  that this has anything at all to do with the influx of Haitians.

First they have been here for many many years.  Estimates are that we have between  1 million and 3 milliion living here.  And that has grown over many years.

Rascism is culturally ingrained here.  It is seen in the young girls wanting "good hair" meaning straight. It is seen in  people not wanting any sun on their skin so they  appear darker.  You can see it in the job wanted ads  where they ask for  light skinned applicants only!  I have seen those ads myself!   

I cannot tell you how many times I have been told by men they want me to have their baby - so they can have my green eyes, light skin and good hair!   (and that is NOT gonna happen)

And it is unbelievably  systemic as well.  We have the blatant and the systemic.  A dark skinned lawyer friend of mine left a big law firm a few years ago. He had a good job. I asked why he left. He told me flat out that a dark skinned lawyer in a big firm will NEVER EVER be allowed to advance very far.  I believed him as I saw how he was treated.

Your comments about -  " In the past it was predicated on the stature in the society, between the rich & the poor., the haves & the have nots." So  true - but  who were the people in upper society -  light skinned and spanish.  The rich -  look at those big powerful families -  from Spain predominantly.

I will tell you to look in the newspaper here and the ads.  You will see very very few people of color in the ads,  in the "society pages"  in the  notices etc.   This culture is not white.  But if you look closely at the newspapers you would think it was!

I agree times are going to get tougher!  You bet,  we need to be ready all of us.

AND you are very welcome Gypsy.

Planner, I don't disagree with you.  We use tha same language, but different words.

Cool!

You both make some good points.

Many years ago I had a Dominican gardener working for us.  He wanted someone to help him two days a week.  He asked me to hire a "nigger".  I said what??  He said " a nigger,  you know Haitian to do the dirty work for him"

Well I needed to hire two people as I fired the gardener.

Bob K

Just another example of the biases and racism here.

Yep I was a little shocked when it happened.  I have since become more aware.

Reminds me when as a kid we used to drive to Florida for vacation from New Jersey every year. I can remember the "Black only hotels, sections of the resaurants, even "black only drinking fountains".  Even as a kid it shocked me.

Bob K

Bob.... you're telling your age......

My parents were not prejudice and did a great job of protecting me from such ideology.  I applaud them for that, especially considering they were born in the '20's.

Age is a relative thing.


Bob K

We are not racist, ill leave you with one of the craziest quotes of a great dominican lol

Alvarito Arvelo:  "Yo no soy racista. Me da los mismo un hombre blanco que un maldito negro"

That is a  great example RDE........ you might want to translate it as many  people here will not understand it.

yes, translate please!

Do you guys think American expats in DR are essentially voting with their feet as to whether or not the US will overcome this round of racism and intolerance?

I'm biracial (Korean and caucasian) but look Native American. Growing up in northern Michigan (which I liked to call "The Great White North" ) I was always having to explain 'What' I am...weirdly the most rude people were Native people who saw me as a sell-out...my dad lived in California and eventually Oregon...where mixed raced people are just so commom place no one ever asked...I liked that...also, side note, 100% Asian are some of the racist....especially to 'half-breeds'...but, obviously, every individual person should be given the benefit of the doubt as an individual and not judged by their cultural biases they have been unable to shed...as you all know, getting out into the world and connecting with other human beings from everywhere and learning about the richness of our world is the only hope this Human Race has!

Immagration
Racism
Religion
These elements exist in all of humanity. They create an implosion of each other. One is utilized to defend against the other. Of course this tragic manifestation of chaos creates what the orchestrator of all destruction wants. Fear.
To gain power, fear will always be the weapon of choice. The tools available today via the internet , television and the software industry, are being used to hold captive a populace not yet prepared to unplug from these conveniate boutiques of informative yet many times choreographed events of chaos.
The opportunity to decompress here in the DR, will be available for anyone who can leave the events of their "homeland" at home. Kick back, enjoy the ambience this island can bring. That's why we are here right? This place will only be paradise as long as we can let our thoughts, our work and our play, portray á genuine display of appreciation that accompanies letting go.

Yes you are so correct as to one of the reasons why it is so good to be living here and not in the "real" world.  Certainly is one of the reasons as to why I am in no rush to leave.

Bob K

I totally agree with you Planner. I myself have noticed and witnessed many similar examples to what you have mentioned. You have in my opinion accurately illustrated some very sad truths about the mindset of a large proportion of the Dominican society. Racism in the DR as well as in many other parts of the world is sad but very much alive and  a reality in many people's lives. We can only continue to hope for positive change.

My hope is that in coming to DR, I will be able to actually live in the 'real' world.  This life here in the US is not real! Humans were not made to live like rats in a maze.  I'm constantly trying to be 'present' and stop and smell the roses (that are all snow covered at the moment!)...I don't like this pace and the fact that I seem to never have TIME for the important things in life; family, friends, beauty, culture, etc... 

I don't pretend there is anywhere that would be perfect...and the DR may change for the better or worse over the next 20 years...but, you can only choose your direction and go that way until other circumstances and events change your direction.  My current direction?  STRAIGHT SOUTH! 

Groby, What fine archer you are, a straight arrow for sure.  Definitely not,  "I shot an arrow into the air, where it landed I know not where".     You are an assasin (sp) of complacency. Bravo, master of the long bow.

brodies2013 with patience all that you are hoping for in the "real" world here is doable.  You just need to adapt and leave Mr. Type A back in the states.

Bob K

Wait?!  Have you met my husband?! LOL!   

I don't get why people talk about "racism" like it's the big bogeyman in a room and always in a negative tone. Kind of like "global warming" or "climate change". The entire planet is this way. Go to any country that is not one of the developed ones, that's 95+% of countries BTW, and you will find raging racism like you can't imagine.  There are much better topics in life to discuss.

One time I asked a guy in Colorado about why he didn't vote for Ron Paul. He told me Ron Paul is a racist. The point is people are programmed to dismiss anyone that's a "racist". It's an illusory topic programmed into people for the express purpose to divide and conquer.

Dreamtime we talk about what we want to talk about.  If you don't like the topic do not participate. If you want to talk about something else,  start at topic honey!

   Its not a bogeyman, it is a fact of life here and that is the point.

racism is a boring subject. liberals keep racism going

Planner good response.  Yes this is an open forum and you should feel free discuss what you want.

Bob K

Dont discuss any subject that forces you to look inward. You may not like what you see.

Stanr your dead on target