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Women of Indonesia

I would be less than honest if I didn’t admit to being inspired to write this post if it weren’t for a disparaging, grossly inaccurate and generalized assessment of Indonesian women that I read elsewhere on this forum.

Summarily described in that post as shallow, air-headed shopping mall addicts who “wash each other’s bones” and are disinclined to become educated, seek their own careers and to advance within society, (relying more on their husbands), my intention is to dispel that falsehood, terribly inaccurate generalization, and insult.     

Recently asked during an interview (details are unimportant), “what general characteristics of Indonesian women are most notable to you” I had no hesitation in answering, “love and dedication to family.”  I could endlessly wax poetic on just this one, albeit generalized aspect of Indonesian women, but any critic would be hard pressed to argue the fact that for the Indonesian woman, nothing…absolutely nothing, is more important to them than their family.  Family is the bedrock foundation of Indonesia, and it’s their women who laid those bricks, and continue to nourish and maintain them day after day. 

Pressed on, I was asked, “what else?”  My second response was, “an inner beauty which is not surpassed by their famous outer beauty and their embrace and joy of being a woman.”  As sensual, erotic, mystifying, and utterly addictive as Indonesian women often are, those qualities are unquestionably fueled from within, be that from their spirituality, or ancestrally based traditions. 

Getting the attention of this interviewer, I was asked, “anything else? 

“Oh yeah, plenty more, for example their incredible strength, both physically and mentally, and their endless endurance and patience.  And woe to me for not previously  mentioning their intellect and inherent common sense.”  Indonesia, the most populated Muslim country on earth, an independent nation only since 1946, but already having a woman serving as President, and with more women elected to their national legislature than most other proclaimed “democracies” on the planet.

That’s my overall view of the women of Indonesia…what’s yours?

That's lovely to hear Mr. Roy, and when I am in Bali I would tend to agree with you. But in Jakarta, with their fancy hairstyles and designer clothes, shoes and bags and a sombong attitude, I would perhaps disagree.

saintjean :

That's lovely to hear Mr. Roy, and when I am in Bali I would tend to agree with you. But in Jakarta, with their fancy hairstyles and designer clothes, shoes and bags and a sombong attitude, I would perhaps disagree.

Those women represented by what percentage of the population of Jakarta? 

BTW, have you ever bothered to read Fred’s epic post, “Fred Went a Wandering?”

Have you EVER read one entry about what you speak of?

From where I sit, if YOU are only being exposed to THOSE "sombong" attitude ladies, then perhaps you aren't getting the whole picture...i.e. sombong yourself?

How much about Jakarta do YOU really know?

Ubudian :
saintjean :

That's lovely to hear Mr. Roy, and when I am in Bali I would tend to agree with you. But in Jakarta, with their fancy hairstyles and designer clothes, shoes and bags and a sombong attitude, I would perhaps disagree.

Those women represented by what percentage of the population of Jakarta? 

BTW, have you ever bothered to read Fred’s epic post, “Fred Went a Wandering?”

Have you EVER read one entry about what you speak of?

From where I sit, if YOU are only being exposed to THOSE "sombong" attitude ladies, then perhaps you aren't getting the whole picture...i.e. sombong yourself?

How much about Jakarta do YOU really know?

Oh my goodness ?????

Oh my goodness?   :lol:

Yeah, think about it.  :top:

Fred and Luke both have Indonesian wives, and they both live in Jakarta.  I know with certainty that neither of their wives would fit your description (view) of an Indonesian woman in Jakarta.   ;)

I meet all sorts of women from all sorts of backgrounds every day; From the super rich to the super poor and from the hardworking to the financially looked after by hubby. All have nice smiles. All offer me food and a hello. If they want to totter about in the mall growing the economy who cares and if they want to wander about in Hero in pyjamas who cares. It doesn't bother me one bit. If I could afford for my wife to do that and spend her time looking after the family while I work then I would, and I am sure my wife would like that too.
I also quite like the idea of women wanting to look good for themselves not that most need to here, although the mutton dressed in lamb in the mall is always fun to watch.
The western women I know have always been fascinated with Indonesian womens hair and skin and vice versa and the only complaint they make is about timekeeping, but thats universal.
Indonesia for all its faults and there are a lot of them, has empowered women and supports that here really well in my opinion. From a President of Indonesia to CEOs of companies and everything in between. Its not perfect. Where is?
Peoples behaviours in malls are often appalling and I refuse to go to many as a result but as this will get me off topic and in trouble through discriminating against certain body types, facial types and age groups I won't but thats about their family values nothing more.

Finally, in regards to common sense. As I work with many Indonesians, mostly all females, I know a few who would be considered 'blonde' in a country where hair colour is more than very dark brown due to their lack of common sense which again is not a bad thing but a fun thing and being the gentleman that I am, once I have stopped face palming and laughing I help them.

Hi have met a number of Indonesian women , all almost all have been lovely people.

My wife works 12 hours a day and then come home and sorts her family out. She is tireless in that respect. Always tries her hardest. Mind, she can't cook. She could burn water. She dresses up for work but that's a work thing which is also a company culture but at the weekend she does as she pleases. Life is hard enough somedays for her to be with me in the city due to the narrow mindedness of some people but she has a @*:! you approach to that which I fully support.
She happily spends my money but normally in this order; the kids, her, me and it causes me no grief so I am happy.

I admire Indonesian women from middle to low socio-economic background.
From your average office workers to housemaids, with often young kids taken care by parents, their aim is the betterment of the family.

They are more hardworking, more sensible, more responsible than their male counterparts. They have less personal ego and strengths in many respects.
Even if their partner is not working or ask them not to work, they will strive to provide for family first, sacrificing themselves. More and more women in Indonesia is the primary breadwinner or stand equal in terms of financial contributions to the family unit.

I agree Indonesian women can work very hard and want to provide. I admire my Indonesian girlfriend's work ethic.
I have also found them to be very caring and thoughtful.

Women vary, as do men.

I tend to find most men's opinion of Indonesian women is a reflection of the man holding the opinion, not a reasonable view of the ladies of Indonesia.

I recall reading a post some years ago complaining how all Indonesian women were either gold diggers or tarts, but I suspect the poster was one of the group of fools who hang around in seedy bars getting drunk.
I'm sure a fly sees a pile of shit as his world, totally unaware of anything nice because he's too engrossed in the poo poo to bother looking for something better.

“I tend to find most men's opinion of Indonesian women is a reflection of the man holding the opinion, not a reasonable view of the ladies of Indonesia.”

That would make sense to me if the man’s opinion was solely based on women of dating (sexual) interest to him. 

Graduating beyond that superficiality, and with many years of marriage as well as a family full of other women…mother in law, grandmother, sisters in law, aunties, cousins…I think a man’s view of Indonesian women in that case would be insightful and spot on, well formed after many years of observation and interaction with them, seeing them at their best and their worse, in good times, and in bad times.

No offence, but I believe that women are far smarter than men, that is why so many men have been duped by clever women. That is because men fall for beauty and women fall for money, security, whatever....

But more importantly, of course you will say wonderful things about your wives, otherwise you would never have married them in the first place. And even the men that marry bar girls to give them a chance in life will think the world of them. The point is, beauty (both inside and out) is in the eye of the beholder.

As to Indonesian women being so wonderful. Yes most of them probably are, but it is no different to most other countries. Do you really think all those German men in Thailand don't believe their wives are the best? Their wives are tiny, sometimes only as tall as their bellies. And the ones who marry Chinese or Filipino, or Columbian or Ethiopean women. don't you think that they too think their wives are fantastic and the girls in those countries are so wonderful?

And in some places the women do all the work while the men stay home playing with their cockerills. Sure, Indonesian women are great to put up with that.

So yes, in general Indonesian women are very nice, but lots of them aren't too. Same goes for women in every other country in the world.

And I will also say, you guys all live in Indonesia so it's normal to say nice things about Indonesian women. But ask the western men in Vietnam about Vietnamese women and they will says the same as you guys say. Same for every country.

saintjean :

No offence, but I believe that women are far smarter than men,

How sexist of you to say so.

Do you not believe that of your own wife Fred?

Western men tend to like Asian women, but I have no clue why they reject their own racial group in favour of ladies from the other side of the world.


http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/01_01/bingersSWNS0101_468x474.jpg

Much as these lovely example of an English ladies about town aren't the total female population of the UK, they are getting more and more common.
30+ year olds who look 60, many with massive rolls of fat hanging over their bikinis and drunk to the level of puking in the street.
Very much a daily mail version of UK night life, but I've seen a lot of it with my own eyes, so explaining why Asian women have a massive advantage in the eyes of western men.

saintjean :

Do you not believe that of your own wife Fred?

Believe which part?

Fred :
saintjean :

Do you not believe that of your own wife Fred?

Believe which part?

I mean, don't you believe that your wife is smarter than you?

Fred :

Western men tend to like Asian women, but I have no clue why they reject their own racial group in favour of ladies from the other side of the world.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/ … 217017.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/0 … 68x474.jpg

Much as these lovely example of an English ladies about town aren't the total female population of the UK, they are getting more and more common.
30+ year olds who look 60, many with massive rolls of fat hanging over their bikinis and drunk to the level of puking in the street.
Very much a daily mail version of UK night life, but I've seen a lot of it with my own eyes, so explaining why Asian women have a massive advantage in the eyes of western men.

Yes I agree that many UK women and American women don't look after themselves too well.

But that's not the only reason. Western men have always liked small slim Asian women. They may talk about inner beauty and tolerance, but it usually either means they like them because of their small sexy bodies.

But there is another reason. I think that many western men cannot get a nice looking woman back in their own country or even to find a wife, perhaps only the ones like in your two photos Fred. But here in Asia even if you are not good looking you can easily find a reasonably good looking Asian woman.

And have you ever seen tall western men walking down the road with a tiny Asian girl? It always amuses me.

saintjean :
Fred :
saintjean :

Do you not believe that of your own wife Fred?

Believe which part?

I mean, don't you believe that your wife is smarter than you?

I believe I am smarter than her, but I don't believe women are generally smarter than men, or the other way round.

I am not only good looking, but I'm an athlete in the sack.
Many girls become depressed when they realize they can never enjoy me because I'm married.

Here's a picture of me being athletic in the sack.

https://cdn.evbuc.com/eventlogos/137220425/gunnysack.jpg

It’s no surprise to me that a western woman would come up with this:

“They (western men) may talk about inner beauty and tolerance, but it usually either means they like them because of their small sexy bodies.  But there is another reason. I think that many western men cannot get a nice looking woman back in their own country or even to find a wife.”

I guess it never dawns on those western women who come to that conclusion that the opinions western men form here of Indonesian (and other Asian women) isn’t based only on their wives or girl friends, but rather on a whole host of Indonesian women…mother in law, sisters in law, co-workers, etc.  And of course that classic line, “that western guy could never find a nice looking woman back in their own country or even to find a wife” is hilarious.  But, I guess they, (the western women who believe that) have to come up with some palatable reason why some western men favor Indonesian or Asian women.

I am totally convinced this is culturally based.  On the whole, I am convinced that Indonesian women are raised from childhood with a far better understanding and appreciation, as well as respect for the inherent differences between men and women.  I am not suggesting that these Indonesian women are raised to be subservient to their mates, as that is not the case, but they are raised with a much finer intuition and insight, all of that geared towards maintaining a harmonious and nurturing home.   

In my close circle of expat friends who are married, virtually all of them except for one is married to an Indonesian…Javanese, Balinese and other.   All of them have been married for a long time (well more than ten years), and most are raising families with their Indonesian spouse.  And, more specific to my point, virtually all of them (including myself) have been married to a western woman in the past.  Whenever we talk about this topic, (and it comes up with some regularity), we always draw the same conclusions.  Of course these conclusions are generalities, but these generalities are so consistent and oft shared that there is no question about their credibility.

Some of these conclusions are:  Indonesian women make tremendous mothers, are 100% committed to family, avoid nagging, take good care of themselves, socially skilled and enjoy meeting new people, fiercely loyal to their mate and their families, prefer to live in their home country, (to stay close to family), open minded and eager to try new things and to continue learning, have some religious foundation, and as such, a spiritual side, seldom complain or cry about things they can’t change, have pride and self respect but not conceit, skilled with handling money, and when the chips are down, will fiercely fight to protect their family and themselves.   

And then of course there are the physical attributes which are undeniable and tremendously attractive to many western men…their slim, fit and sexy bodies, smooth as silk skin, awesome smiles, silky hair, graceful movement and posture, always looking younger than they are, extremely sensual and giving bed partners, and good mental health…no Prozac Queens here! 

There is no question in my mind why so many western women get defensive and feel threatened by Indonesian and many other Asian women.  There are plenty of very good reasons for that, and whether or not they will admit it, they also know it.

Haha...Fred, what you say is funny  ;)

Ubudian seems you have been in Indonesia far too long. And when describing Indonesian women perhaps you forgot to mention the words "subservient" and "happy to please their western partners" and "tolerant of western men's awful behaviour" etc.

Yes, western men can come here and get away with an awful lot that western women would never accept.

Also, an ugly western man can come to Indonesia, pick up or marry a beautiful girl because Asian women look up to western people, and feel like a king. That means that back home nobody wants them, but in Asia all the girls want them. A great situation to be in for a western man....hahaha!

You can think that all you want…it isn’t surprising…rather it’s totally expected.

Trust me, I have no delusions of being able to convince you otherwise!   :lol:

"Ubudian seems you have been in Indonesia far too long."

My only real regret is that I didn't move here sooner than I did. 

Cheers!

Oh, and by the way...if you ever meet my Balinese wife, you'll learn quickly enough that subservient isn't in her vocabulary...but she is always happy to please me.   ;)   Come to think of it, I don't know any Indonesian women who would include subservient in their vocabulary either!

Haha...I am sure you are right for all the reasons you say. That is why Thailand is full of German men married to Thai women, and the Philippines is full of British men all married to Filipinos. I am sure they would all agree with your comments about Asian women  ;)

Have you ever thought that while western men think that their Asian partners have small sexy bodies, Asian men, who are usually short, find their Asian wives the same sizes as themselves and therefore don't think of them a small and sexy? So it is more a matter of physical size. Perhaps those less endowed western men can feel better about themselves with an Asian woman? Who knows? I am sure that must be the case with some of them.

Haha...it is funny to see western men talking about Asian women. It's better that you just enjoy your lives with them and not talk too much because most women will just laugh at you because we know the reality  :lol:

“Have you ever thought that while western men think that their Asian partners have small sexy bodies, Asian men, who are usually short, find their Asian wives the same sizes as themselves and therefore don't think of them a small and sexy?”

Why would I bother to consider that?  Why would I care or consider what Asian men think about Asian women?  On the other hand, I have “warned” some Asian men about western women…and on more than one occasion!  :D 

“Haha...it is funny to see western men talking about Asian women. It's better that you just enjoy your lives with them and no0t talk too much because most women will just laugh at you because we know the reality.”

Of course, you have no other choice but to believe you “know the reality.”   :top:

And perhaps we western women should choose Asian men with their young muscular bodies and stamina rather than old fat bellied ugly western guys that turn red in the sun.

Luckily most western women think with their brains and not their other parts.....hahaha. Ubudian you really make me laugh...! you are no different to every other western guy that comes to Asia.

"And perhaps we western women should choose Asian men with their young muscular bodies and stamina rather than old fat bellied ugly western guys that turn red in the sun."

I guess if you believe in the myth that "size doesn't matter" sure, why not?   :lol:

And btw, a lot of western women do exactly what you say...just Google "Kuta Cowboys."

So, knock yourself out!  And for you, just a little "taste" of what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDPNeXSVmak

"Ubudian you really make me laugh...! you are no different to every other western guy that comes to Asia."

Coming from a lady who thinks nothing of publicly insulting her own grandfather, just how much credibility do you think I give to that comment?   ;)

Try to change the subject if you feel the need to Mr. Ubudian, but we woman (Asian and western) know exactly what you and most other western guys are all about.... ;)

Like I already said, you have no other choice but to believe that, and if it makes you happy, then that's fine with me. 

Just don't think for a second that you know anything about me...because you are totally clueless in that regard.   ;)

Cheers!

saintjean :

Haha...Fred, what you say is funny  ;)

Ubudian seems you have been in Indonesia far too long. And when describing Indonesian women perhaps you forgot to mention the words "subservient" and "happy to please their western partners" and "tolerant of western men's awful behaviour" etc.

Yes, western men can come here and get away with an awful lot that western women would never accept.

Also, an ugly western man can come to Indonesia, pick up or marry a beautiful girl because Asian women look up to western people, and feel like a king. That means that back home nobody wants them, but in Asia all the girls want them. A great situation to be in for a western man....hahaha!

A few points.
Suami suami takut istri - My wife tells me what to do, and I suspect that's pretty common, more so than most of us chaps care to admit.
As for Indonesia women wanting me - I fully understand that because I'm crazy handsome and a lovely person, but their chances are very limited unless my wife lets me get married again.
The thought of four wives has its pleasing side, but the nagging would be a killer.
Awful behaviour? I rarely let rip outside the bathroom, and they're sweet smelling anyway. I'm really well mannered.

I am looking forward to Mas Fred's new book how to woo and keep a woman. 1001 techniques that have always worked for me.

Good stufff

Fred… :lol:

And count me in on a copy of that book too please.  I’ll keep it right alongside my manuscript copy of The Monster That Ate Ubud.

I like the posts by Mr. Fred and Mr. Luke because they are funny.

But Mr. Ubudian, I do know something about you. Let me put this another way:

This open forum is viewed by a lot of expatriates, quite possibly half of which are women. When they read an opening post such as yours many of them will find it offensive and sexist, not only because you are putting Indonesian women on a pedestal and your are comparing them to western women and basically saying western women are not as good, but also when you says things like:

".....physical attributes which are undeniable and tremendously attractive to many western men…their slim, fit and sexy bodies, smooth as silk skin, awesome smiles, silky hair, graceful movement and posture, always looking younger than they are, extremely sensual and giving bed partners....."

I can only imagine that you wrote that opening post for the sake of impressing the other men in this forum. But it tells a lot about you and your lack of sensitivity to the female viewers in this forum. And talking about how good your partner is in bed....we can only assume you are talking about your wife's performance and perhaps your shouldn't do that in a public forum which is viewed by women. What you say is really disrespectful to expatriate women and if you are talking about your wife's performance between the sheets, assuming that she is a respectable person then realize that she could be embarrassed by such comments especially if any of her friends or your friends read your post.

Worst of all, you seem to be blind to how offensive your comments can be to women.

Give it a rest, will ya?  :dumbom:

To be honest, I would only care what Indonesian women think of my post, and quite frankly, after reading your insults slung at your own grandfather, I am without doubt of their opinion of you.   :mad:  because respect for their elder family members is another common trait of Indonesian women. 

Furthermore, if you read the opening lines of my original post which started this thread, my motives are very, very clear...they were made in response to what another western woman wrote about Indonesian women.  So yeah, I felt it entirely appropriate to address that.

OH, and by the way...it is YOU who first introduced the physical attributes and sex appeal of Indonesian and Asian women to this discussion!  Did you conveniently forget that?   :dumbom:

But hey, I do owe you a great deal of thanks.  You've done a PERFECT job of illustrating my points.   :top:

Matur suksama!   :top:

lukereg :

I am looking forward to Mas Fred's new book how to woo and keep a woman. 1001 techniques that have always worked for me.

Good stufff

It's all down to what goes into my trousers.



















Top quality tailors make such a difference to a man's appearance because of all the effort and care that goes into the suit. I mention the trousers above the rest because I tend not to wear jackets unless it's a special occasion.

The top quality tailoring that goes into the trousers turns a handsome man such as myself into an amazingly handsome man.

saintjean :

And I will also say, you guys all live in Indonesia so it's normal to say nice things about Indonesian women. But ask the western men in Vietnam about Vietnamese women and they will says the same as you guys say. Same for every country.

Saintjean,  The longer you go on the more childish and ridiculously jealous you sound ! I get the feeling you may have lost someone you loved to a Asian lady? Otherwise I can't understand why you sound so nasty towards some  western men preferring to be with a asian partner? My wife and I don't live in Indonesia yet as you quoted ! We are still in Australia where my wife works as equally hard as myself or any other lady or man in Australia .
As for any western man ( old ,ugly or whatever ) , being able to get any Asia lady ?  You must be in a different world to me ? It took me months persuading my wife to finally give in to me and go on a date and I' m don't consider myself ugly and I'm only a few years different in age to my wife( not that it matters anyhow).  I chose my wife for the sole reason for her great sense of humour . The fact that she is very attractive was a bonus.
I have had a few different relationships with western women and have to children to 1 . I'm sure there are some wonderful western and European lady's out there but I happened to find my true love in Bali.
There are plenty of Australian women who also have men for the same reasons as some asian women ( money and security) but I don't hear you critising them?
People with your attitude are the exact reason why I look at how lucky I am to have a wife like mine who happens to be Asian.
I was going to keep out of this but I just strongly disagree with most of what you say .
Some western and Europen men do pickup the money hungry women , but that's because they waive it around like idiots and hang out in bars looking for those type of women etc ( as mentioned by Fred ) .
So to me , anyone who carries on like you must only be jealous ? There is no other reason?
As for women being smarter than men well some are some are not . By what you have said I think  I know which one you are.  I may be more academicly smarter than my wife because I had the opportunity of receiving a good education , but I admit my wife is diffinately more wise and patient than myself .
Steve

No Steve, I am still young, never divorced and not at all jealous. But I found Ubudian's comments naive and sexist and offensive.

In fact what you mistakenly think of jealousy is probably just defensiveness on your part and of the part of all those other older guys who have been through male menopause, a broken marriage or two back home, and found a pretty little Asian woman who is willing to marry them. And Steve, many Asian girls married to western men are highly educated. But it's the way that Ubudian talks about them like objects, and compares them to western women in an open forum and talks about how good they are in bed.

And Steve, I am not knocking that at all. Older and divorced men have every right to be happy and  having a young Asian wife will bring you happiness and that is what is most important.

Your point about money hungry women, both Asian and western is something I never mentioned in my posts. Also about bar girls, I am not here to talk about those. These are topics that you yourself are bringing up Steve and maybe you could open a new thread about those?

Have a good day Steve  ;)

Steve, are you relishing the irony here as much as I am?  Ayu will very likely enjoy this irony as well. 

What do I mean? 

I mean the way karma has worked its way into this thread by providing it with Rangda and almost creating a classical Calonarang right here on this thread.  Without the Rangda, the story would be incomplete, and the message would fall short. 

You wrote,

“People with your attitude are the exact reason why I look at how lucky I am to have a wife like mine who happens to be Asian.”

Om Santi, Santi, Santi Om.     :top:

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