Keeping busy.

Hi Lena,

I have a few observations after reading your post.

One point I want to make is that if you receive any form of monetary compensation doing those things you like to do…and you are not set up as a legal business, or legally employed, then you are putting yourself in great jeopardy because you are breaking the law. 

On the other hand, if you want to volunteer your time with organizations that are licensed in Indonesia as a Yayasan or NGO, that's fine, and in Jakarta you should have no problems finding such organizations. 

As for children at orphanages being allowed to spend time in your home, even if just a weekend…absolutely not.  For locals who are well known to the orphanage, and to the local police, yes, this can happen…a sort of “foster parent” kind of thing…but with foreigners…no way.  And frankly, given your potential legal exposure in doing this sort of thing (well intentioned as it is) you would be putting yourself in potentially very serious risk.

Please be careful what you do.  As the old saying goes, “the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.” 

That all being said, I wish you the best of luck and God's speed with your good intentions.

Tanks for the reply.
I am looking for somthing to do not because i need money. Even if  people  payed for part time job they not going to sit and work in the office and wait til they get cought. that kind of job gets done at home . I red your comments before and i don't like you trying o scary people telling them that they going to be cought. People that come to Jakarta have brain. Try to go to Russia sit home and do nothing for 2 years will see what advise you will give to people. Staying home and doing nothing that is what most indonesian wives do . I got to meet  lots of them. They cook and eat. Eat and sleep. Spend all the money the husband makes. Some take kids  to after school activity.  Or arisan . very great plase to be ! Eat in the resto collect money to help anothe velthy person ( what is the point) . They hardly talk there. What is this apsession with going to the malls ? !  To do what ? Show your lates shoes you bought? Who cares ?They wash each other bones and f...ing happy with it ! Why Indonesians do not like visitors in the house , but with plesure will bring ALL they relatives when you invite them ? So  i do not want to become Indonesian or accepet local behavior.This kind of attitude ir road to nowhere. I left US because tired to be scared and reading your profile understend why you making people scared . You are from US. No wonder you affraid to make step to the left or to the right. I was in that skin ones . Not any longer. Good luck!

Sounds like you are not enjoying it here. What Roy is trying to tell you is that it is really unwise to seek work without the correct visas and paperwork and that you should seek out charities and organisations that are officially licensed so that you can support them without too much hassle from people.
Sadly not everyone who comes here understands the rules and how the rules can affect them and so they willingly work illegally do whatever they came here to do and that has led them into trouble and deportation. That is not a scare story, that is a fact and the advice given is to make you aware of that. To help.
But saying all that, if you feel that the advice and information offered up is not too your liking then why post and complain about the replies?The message I am reading in your post is that you are angry and not too impressed with Jakarta and or expat/local women. That's their lifestyle and that what they like; so live and let live and if this city is too much then perhaps not being here would help.

You did not read properly. I said i am not looking for a payed job. But if it is than i am  not scared to do it. This city is not anough instead of to much.

Luke, you know the old saying, “you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.”

Nonetheless, thanks for your kind effort to clarify for Lena.    

Cheers!

And Lena, thanks for the good luck wish, but from where I sit, you're the one who is going to need it more. 

Hello Lena. My friend runs a small charity. A couple of weeks ago they took 37 kids from an orphanage in Bekasi on a 4 museum tour in Jakarta. They provided meals and arranged a bus and at the end of the day presented each child with a Certificate on completion of the tour. The organization is small with about 18 members who help impoverished children in Indonesia. The latest project is to generate funds for the children in Riao and Kalimantan who are suffering from the haze problems. This project is just about completed but maybe you could join them on future projects if you have free time. These are generally various types of small fund raising events, maybe generating only Rp5 - 20 million for each event. All the members are Indonesian, about 30 years old and University graduates and all are English speaking and I am sure they would welcome you because you have a good heart and seem very willing to help.

The founder of this small charity does not like Yayasan's and NGO's but believes in helping the poor and impoverished by choosing exactly who and how to help in their own way. When she was a student struggling to pay her way through university in Jakarta, she and her friends would teach poor and homeless children under Jatinegara Bridge which most people would not even dream of doing. She is not at all like those rich Indonesian women who go to the spa or shopping together for gossip. She and her team love helping kids and they have fun doing it.

If you were to join them sometimes just as a friend to help out, I am sure they would welcome you.

If Roy's posts scare you, it's a good thing.
The OP mentions paid word, something you should avoid doing, but would probably get away with depending on your visa type and manner of work.
Working part time for no payment in an orphanage would be nice, but tell immigration and make sure they have no problem with it.
I did something like this a few years ago.
They were happy as long as there was no payment and it was just a few hours a week.

Saintjean, your friend's small charity sounds good, but if it is not a licensed Yayasan, then a foreigner cannot volunteer with that organization and expect no problems.  I'm thinking specifically of what you wrote, “the founder of this small charity does not like Yayasan's and NGO's but believes in helping the poor and impoverished by choosing exactly who and how to help in their own way.”

Moreover, becoming a licensed Yayasan is no impediment to running your charity “in your own way.”  Most importantly, any unlicensed charity in Indonesia which is directly involved with children, be the founder and their entire staff Indonesian or not, is in grave legal jeopardy, this all stemming from child protection laws and concerns here in Indonesia.  On top of that issue, there are tax issues to consider…meaning that donations to an unlicensed Yayasan are neither tax free to the receiving “charity” nor tax deductible to the giver. 

We have had this discussion in the past, on and off, and I am still unclear why you would support activity which is not in compliance with the laws in Indonesia.  Perhaps you can explain this at some point?

Onto Fred's point…just a few days ago there was a police raid concentrating on unlicensed, and non compliant Yoga instructors in the Ubud area.  Several were arrested, but one fellow, (said to be German), physically assaulted an officer and ran.  I cannot even begin to tell you how much trouble that guy will be dished out when he's caught, and the other “illegal” instructors are now enjoying the immigration jail facilities in Jimbaran while their fines are worked out.   

As I see it, the biggest problem I often see foreigners getting into here in Indonesia stems from an inappropriate and unfounded belief that they should enjoy the same rights and freedoms that they enjoy(ed) in their home country. 

Very simply put, foreigners have neither the right to live, or to work in Indonesia.  That is a privilege, and the sooner some folks come to understand that, the better off they will be.

As I said, clear anything you do with immigration.
If they are informed and clear you to do it, you have nothing to worry about.
Honesty is the only policy.

I also worked with the local police doing anti drugs talks in schools. No one is going to complain about you doing that sort of thing.
I didn't get paid a bean, but it was rewarding and worthwhile work.

As for the German dude hitting a copper .... ouch, he's on a flight out, after a likely high fine and very likely time behind bars, and not the sort that serve cold beer.
Frankly, he deserves it.

The Charity is an Independant Social Act and the members include a lawyer, an economics advisor to the government, the wife of a senior immigration officer and a consultant to the government who is also the daughter of a well-known MP. There are also normal people who join because they just want to help. It is not a group of naive houswives, they are intelligent and educated indonesians who actually know what they are doing and who do not need advice or guidance from foreigners.

Foreigners are allowed to give a helping hand during their events and that does not break any immigration rules and I have helped lots of times.

No offence Roy, But I believe I tried to explain this to you before. Many of the younger generation in Indonesia are fed up with the corruption that has been associated with Yayasan's and NGO's in the past. These days many are turning to ISA's (Independent Social Acts) as a way of by-passing those big organizations and helping those who need assistance directly. It is also more satisfying for those involved as they can be more active in charity.

So rather than trying to knock ISA's and trying to find reasons to speak against them (I know you also say you belong to NGO's and Yayasan's) isn't it better to just accept them as an alternative way of helping the needy and impoverished? The bottom line is that everyone can help the needy in any way they wish. That can only be good.

And no offense from my perspective either.

You write, “many of the younger generation in Indonesia are fed up with the corruption that has been associated with Yayasan's and NGO's in the past.”

I'm sorry, but if by corruption, you mean government corruption against Yayasans and NGO's, I never heard anything like that at all…and as you recognize, I've been very closely involved with several Yayasan and NGO organizations here in Bali for the past 17 years.  So, and sorry to say, I am highly dubious of the presence of these “many of the younger generation” that you speak of. 

On the other hand, I am indeed aware of non licensed “charity” organizations on Bali, both set up with foreign “founders” as well as local founders which were totally corrupt and also involved in child abuse…specifically, pedophile rings and extortion.     

But hey, you don't have to take my word for this…rather you can contact I Nyoman Sukadana, S.Sos, S.Pd, MBA who prior to his co-founding the highly regarded Yayasan linked to below, and based in Singaraja, was head of Intel in the Singaraja District specifically handling cases of pedophilia.  Or, if you prefer, you can contact his wife, Dewi, (Prof. Dr. Ni Nyoman Padmadewi, MA) who is the other co-founder of this Yayasan, and an active professor at three universities here on Bali, and a consultant to the national board of education.         

http://www.pedulisesamaphilanthropicwork.org/

ISA's are NOT recognized here in Indonesia, nor should they be in my opinion.  And I can guarantee you that my very long time and dear friends, Nyoman and Dewi, would totally agree with me.  And no, I do not accept these ISA's as “an alternative way of helping the needy and impoverished.” 

You further write, “the bottom line is that everyone can help the needy in any way they wish. That can only be good.”

I totally disagree with that…moreover, what you suggest is in my opinion, borderline anarchy. 

Government has a right and an obligation to protect its citizens including from those who might well be “wolves dressed in sheep's clothing.”  And no citizen is more vulnerable than a child. 

As I mentioned earlier, taking the legal route, becoming licensed as a Yayasan in NO way restricts the direction or emphasis that a charity in Indonesia wishes to take.  I could take you to organizations here who differ across the spectrum…education, housing, nutrition, health, pre-employment job training, environmental preservation, animal protection, etc. etc…none of them being restricted in anyway from helping the needy in the way they wish.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong…and more to point, your view is not the view of the Indonesian people as dictated by their laws. 

Like it or not, it's just that simple.

Roy, what on earth are you talking about? You are totally getting carried away. Are you always like this?

No Roy, they won't donate to Bali because compared to other parts of Indonesia Bali is not an impoverished province and as you say there are pedophiles in some Balinese charities. I am sure you would agree that most other regions in Indonesia need charity much more than Bali needs it.

They will also not give a single rupiah to Yayasans or NGO's because they want to choose where they send their charity and by-pass the corruption..

And yes Roy, anyone has the right to help the needy and impoverished in whatever way they want no matter what you say.

"Roy, what on earth are you talking about?"

You mean, you need more of an explanation? 

Very simply, if you can accept the right of government to require its citizens and foreign expats to acquire proper licensing in order to run a business, (and I presume you agree with that), then why are you unable to accept that same requirement when it comes to running a charity? 

And directly applicable to Lena, the original poster and starter of this thread, it's bad advice to suggest to a foreigner that they get involved (volunteer) with an unlicensed charity organization.  That would most certainly be regarded as a violation of their visa.

"No Roy, they won't donate to Bali because compared to other parts of Indonesia Bali is not an impoverished province and as you say there are pedophiles in some Balinese charities."

On a whole, Bali is unquestionably better off than many other Provinces of Indonesia, but there is as much a need for charity here as elsewhere...as in East Bali and northern Bali in particular.  If you take a look at the link I provided earlier, and search East Bali Poverty Project you'll get a feel for what I mean.

You keep mentioning "the corruption" but you are not being specific.  What corruption...by whom, and can you cite some specific cases?  With unlicensed charities and Yayasans there is no oversight, therefore the tendency for corruption is much higher with that sort of an organization.

"And yes Roy, anyone has the right to help the needy and impoverished in whatever way they want no matter what you say."

You can "tell that to the judge", while you also consider how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.   

No Roy, I mean that you are seem to be getting carried away and talking about Balinese pedophiles in your charities and all kinds of weird things.

Lena seems to be looking for something interesting and worthwhile to do in Jakarta and charities was just something she mentioned. She also mentioned that she can teach cooking so it might be worth suggesting to the group that Lena helps to cook cakes or whatever to donate to orphanages. Or even cook cakes for the charity to sell so they can buy books or clothes for poor children.

Apart from sending money to your Yayasan in Bali, what would you suggest that Lena does?

Ubudian wrote:

"No Roy, they won't donate to Bali because compared to other parts of Indonesia Bali is not an impoverished province and as you say there are pedophiles in some Balinese charities."

On a whole, Bali is unquestionably better off than many other Provinces of Indonesia, but there is as much a need for charity here as elsewhere...as in East Bali and northern Bali in particular.  If you take a look at the link I provided earlier, and search East Bali Poverty Project you'll get a feel for what I mean.

You keep mentioning "the corruption" but you are not being specific.  What corruption...by whom, and can you cite some specific cases?  With unlicensed charities and Yayasans there is no oversight, therefore the tendency for corruption is much higher with that sort of an organization.

"And yes Roy, anyone has the right to help the needy and impoverished in whatever way they want no matter what you say."

You can "tell that to the judge", while you also consider how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.   

I don't really know Roy. I just know that they do not want to donate to Yayasans and NGO's because of corruption. But it's really up to them how they want to donate to the poor.

I am not a part of their organisation but I also would never donate to a Yaysan or an NGO. Probably my donation would get eaten up in the organisations expenditures or running costs or tax or in someones pocket. And that is my choice Roy. I can go to any orphanage and give them some money or books or clothes or lunch boxes. That is the beauty of being kind and charitable. I can visit the poorer parts of town and give food to the needy. But I will never donate to a Yayasan or NGO.

Why would I suggest to Lena, who is in Jakarta, to donate money to a charity here in Bali?  As I made very clear in my first post, there are a myriad of licensed Yayasans and NGO's in and around Jakarta where she could volunteer, teach, whatever.  The point is that she do this ONLY with a bona fide licensed organization…and not some “Independent Social Act” which is not licensed.     

She only needs to do some homework and seek out the best organization that best suits her talents and what she wants to do most for the benefit of needy folks. 

My point about pedophiles is very clear, and believe me, they aren't limited to Bali by a long stretch.  The main point is that the concern for children's welfare is significantly elevated with unlicensed charity organizations/orphanages.  As I said, unlicensed means no oversight, and that is not good.

Ubudian wrote:

Why would I suggest to Lena, who is in Jakarta, to donate money to a charity here in Bali?  As I made very clear in my first post, there are a myriad of licensed Yayasans and NGO's in and around Jakarta where she could volunteer, teach, whatever.  The point is that she do this ONLY with a bona fide licensed organization…and not some “Independent Social Act” which is not licensed.     

She only needs to do some homework and seek out the best organization that best suits her talents and what she wants to do most for the benefit of needy folks. 

My point about pedophiles is very clear, and believe me, they aren't limited to Bali by a long stretch.  The main point is that the concern for children's welfare is significantly elevated with unlicensed charity organizations/orphanages.  As I said, unlicensed means no oversight, and that is not good.

Pedophiles and thieves who pocket charity donations are both very bad. The ISA that my friends run rarely meet with children, they just make events to generate money and supplies and then send it to different parts of Indonesia. The event with four museums included the staff of the orphanage who are required to be present to take care of the children.

Also, are you stating that ISA's are illegal? Or are you stating that they must be licensed?

"Probably my donation would get eaten up in the organisations expenditures or running costs or tax or in someones pocket."

Any licensed charity in Indonesia that is worth a flip is 100% transparent with their accounting, and more than willing to open their books as well as being independently audited.  Sorry, but that excuse doesn't hold any water. 

It seems very evident to me that your misconceptions about legal Yayasans and NGO's in Indonesia is based totally on your personal perceptions, or what you've heard, as opposed to any first hand experience.   

But hey, you do what makes you happy.  My primary concern was your bad advice to a foreigner to get involved with an unlicensed charity.

"Also, are you stating that ISA's are illegal? Or are you stating that they must be licensed?"

Potentially they are very illegal, and yes, a formalized charity organization is required to be licensed as a Yayasan.

On the other hand, if you want to drop by a school or orphanage with a load of supplies, or cupcakes for the kids, no problem.  Use your common sense.

For example, what Lena asked in her first post was this:

"Does any of you know how orphaneges operate ? Do they allow to take kids for weekend in your house?"

Totally 100% taboo!  And hopefully the reasons for that are self evident.

Ubudian wrote:

"Also, are you stating that ISA's are illegal? Or are you stating that they must be licensed?"

Potentially they are very illegal,......

On the other hand, if you want to drop by a school or orphanage with a load of supplies, or cupcakes for the kids, no problem.  Use your common sense.

For example, what Lena asked in her first post was this:

"Does any of you know how orphaneges operate ? Do they allow to take kids for weekend in your house?"

Totally 100% taboo!  And hopefully the reasons for that are self evident.

1. Potentially illegal does not mean illegal Roy.

2. Anyone is allowed to drop off supplies to an orphanage. Thank you for saying that too Roy. Except the group has it delivered by courier and rarely go themselves.

3. Of course nobody should be allowed to take children home from an orphanage. Nobody is disagreeing with that Roy.. Lena was just asking a question. She also proposed teaching cooking and Russian. She just wants to do something worthwhile. You should read all her posts.

Lena is most welcome to help out during any events the group may hold whether it be making cakes to sell at car free day or whatever.

Mr Roy, excuse me for saying this but my grandfather is an older man. He also loves to argue and will not give up. He got like that when he became older and in our family we all say he has too much free time. That is why he enjoys to argue and think he knows everything. My brothers call him cantankerous. In the dictionary cantankerous means crabby and quarrelsome. We love him but he is sometimes very annoying.

Your grandfather sounds wonderful.  When I grow up, I want to be just like him!   

Thanks for sharing!

Just joined and found this community in Jakarta.

I feel that what Roy and Fred were saying indeed with good intentions on the caveat/warning on taking paid work.

Recent times, the immigration has been ramping up their 'razia' activities. Even foreigh exhibitors in local expos without a business visa got risk of deportation/fined. This is due to the recent opening up from 30 days visa exempt to over 40 countries.

I agree as well in what Lena said to keep busy in Jakarta to keep sane.
Saint Jean ideas are helpful in achieving that.

It seems like Lena was just throwing out a few suggestions of things she might be able to do in order to get advice from forum members, one of which was paid work, and she probably never expected to receive such a strong response.

I think some of Saintjean's ideas are really good and I also think Ubudian's knowledge on pedophiles is important and we should all be aware that this problem might not be limited to Balinese Yayasans, but may also occur in other charities, schools etc around Indonesia.

Anyway, I do hope that Lena was not scared off by some of the strong comments and that we hear from her again.

“I do hope that Lena was not scared off by some of the strong comments…”

Apa?  What strong comments?

If there were any strong comments, she authored those herself:

Regarding Indonesian women she wrote,

“They wash each other bones and f...ing happy with it ! Why Indonesians do not like visitors in the house , but with plesure will bring ALL they relatives when you invite them ? So  i do not want to become Indonesian or accepet local behavior.This kind of attitude ir road to nowhere.”

And, directed to me she wrote,

“I left US because tired to be scared and reading your profile understend why you making people scared . You are from US. No wonder you affraid to make step to the left or to the right. I was in that skin ones . Not any longer. Good luck!”

Can we be just a little objective and honest here, please? 

Good grief!

I don't think that anybody is saying that all Americans are loud and self-opinionated know-it-alls. I happen to know a couple who are not like that. I also know one or two Canadian's who probably are like that.

I also hope that there are less strong comments in this forum and more respect shown to all who come here with their questions.

“I also hope that there are less strong comments in this forum and more respect shown to all who come here with their questions.”

If you have a personal problem with any particular member of this forum, or the manner in which this forum is administered and moderated, then please take it up via private message to the forum founder, Julien.

If you think there is a lack of respect being conveyed on this forum by any of its regular contributors, then I would suggest that you are being biased and unfair, and you might just take a few minutes and re-read this entire thread. 

Or, if we were enjoying a beer together, I would simply ask, “what's your problem?”   

"I don't think that anybody is saying that all Americans are loud and self-opinionated know-it-alls. I happen to know a couple who are not like that."

That's an uncalled for remark, and if you did bother to read this string you'd clearly see that Lena's comments were directed personally to me..."I left US because tired to be scared and reading YOUR profile understend why YOU making people scared . YOU are from US. No wonder YOU affraid to make step to the left or to the right."

I can assure you that Julien has zero tolerance for personal remarks, or remarks targeting any specific nationality.

Hati, hati!  Be careful!

On the contrary Ubudian, those views are certainly not my own and I believe, as probably most others here in this forum, that you are probably the most knowledgeable person about Bali and possibly about the whole of Indonesia, no matter what your nationality. I personally believe you to be an asset to this forum and would love to have a drink with you one day during a visit to Bali.

As I said, if you have a problem here, take it up with Julien.  I can assure you he knows how to read a thread, and what to garner from between the lines, as well as what is overtly expressed. 

I highly doubt upon reading this thread that he will concur with your analysis:

"I also hope that there are less strong comments in this forum and more respect shown to all who come here with their questions.”

Good morng. Thanks for the information.What are the visitors hours and the address.

Good moning. Thanks for your comment. I think lots of peope have the words like : skary, don't,not alowed,illegal ect in they vocabulary. You can see how swamp made of those words drags people to the most botom and they comfortable with it. So.. as it was said before it is their life and i let them live there. Fortunately there are lots of people out of there.

Hi there. Imake my comments based o what i see and what i am partisipaing in. I do not make hings up. it is not my fault that things i desribed before take place in Indnesia. If you can not accept it what can i do    I spoke about Indonesian people in general using word LOTS of ndonesians, but you seemed to take it personaly . People hear what hey want to hear not what was told. There is another saying : An uneasy consciense betrays itself.
You asking to be honest but ca not take he truth. Be careful of what ou wish for.