Half-hearted "students" - is it time to pack it in?

I have been trying to assist some young persons but basically given up..,,as they don't take it seriously,they want to stop & start again without the commitment or prepared to work to learn.

Back in 1999, I got a job teaching in Cho Lon, the Chinese sector of Saigon, but almost all the young students in the huge class were there only because their Chinese business parents. They were more interested in knowing if I could speak Chinese, rather than asking about English. I resigned after my first lesson and have never sought a paid job since.

Similarly, my wife volunteered me to teach a group of teenagers living in our lane, but all except on girl just wanted to come along and chat in Vietnamese. I closed the classes and have never taken a volunteer class again (although my wife continues to volunteer me).

Teaching is more of an art than a science.  And teenagers are always teenagers given quite a few of distractions since the introduction of capitalism.  Sometimes it takes more than knowledge to teach.  Haven't we all heard from our kids that certain teachers were so inspiring and fun to learn?

Kudos to those retirees with good hearts and intentions but unless you have a teaching credential coupled with a psychology major I don't think it's made for you.

Wise, Yoda is.
Of teenagers Yoda knows the ways.
"To teach sometimes it takes more than knowledge."  Yes, hmmm.

(thx to http://www.yodaspeak.co.uk/index.php)

If you have students who have been starved for a week , they will learn english with more of an Appetite!

Yoda0807 wrote:

Teaching is more of an art than a science.  And teenagers are always teenagers given quite a few of distractions since the introduction of capitalism.  Sometimes it takes more than knowledge to teach.  Haven't we all heard from our kids that certain teachers were so inspiring and fun to learn?

Kudos to those retirees with good hearts and intentions but unless you have a teaching credential coupled with a psychology major I don't think it's made for you.

Old people should have more patience than young ones. One must assume.

Excuse me? You must be proud of your supreme powers of deduction!

These are young adults, not teenagers. And what do you think I've been doing? Boring monologues?

Role play, getting them to speak. It's more about them than me. But the "on / off" nature is frustrating. You might share the view that consistency helps? Keep making an effort for a few weeks and see how far you can go.

You aren't saying it explicitly Chris, but I believe you are frustrated because you would like to improve their lives, not just teach a subject. Dumb kids don't realize the economic value of learning English, even just to intermediate level. It can get them a job in an office instead of at the quán ăn. Go from nhà nghỉ to a downtown hotel. Any number of service jobs open up to them, double, triple+ their income and opportunities, for them and their families. I could paraphrase Willie Sutton, but nah.

The reason I wound up in Vietnam is because I was helping someone who was very motivated on an English learning website, italki.com. An adult who wanted to get ahead in her career, and hoped to work for foreign companies instead. A success story.  There were also lots of school kids, mostly from China but other countries too. I answered a lot of questions and reviewed their writing. But, same as your experience, they didn't like the website, visited one or two times and disappeared. Anyway, there are people who can use your help, and it feels good to help even one and make a difference!

hs0zfe wrote:

Excuse me? You must be proud of your supreme powers of deduction!

These are young adults, not teenagers. And what do you think I've been doing? Boring monologues?

Role play, getting them to speak. It's more about them than me. But the "on / off" nature is frustrating. You might share the view that consistency helps? Keep making an effort for a few weeks and see how far you can go.

You claimed to help these kids, yet you're here complaining about them not putting in the effort. It's like saying 'I help feed the homeless but why can't they just get a job and feed themselves instead'. If they don't wanna put in the effort, why not just move on and focus on those who do.

Yoda see trouble ahead.  No good the dark side.

hs0zfe wrote:

...But it seems those students lack the motivation, the hunger, the seriousness they might have if they were paying some center.

Hi Chris,

I've been an English (ESL) teacher for going on 28 years now, 14 at the highschool level in Canada and almost 14 teaching at various schools, and privately here in Brazil. I hold a BA (English) and B.Ed (English) from two of the most well known universities in Canada, so I just want to confirm your very apt observation.

It is not by chance that language schools, worldwide, have adopted methodologies that make learning the English language look as difficult as possible, rather than using techniques that facilitate learning. They've known for decades that people aren't going to pay the "big bucks" for something that looks easy. They also charge (in most cases) astronomical fees for their courses because they also know that students do not place any great value on something that is free. When they know they're going to lose a sizeable chunk of change for missing a class, or it will take longer to complete a course because they don't complete assignments which then must be done during class time, they start to understand the real value.

What you need to do is to make it absolutely clear to those you intend to help that you have absolutely no intention to waste your time with anyone who won't put forth the effort required, that you'll cut them loose and move on to someone else who will. Then stick to your guns. Give a student one warning and if they still don't get their act together cut the cord and move on. There's no shame in having tried and failed with some students, especially those who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. You've got to be a better judge of exactly when it's time to let go, that's all.

To paraphrase a very old proverb... You can lead a student to education, but you can't make him think.

Cheers,
James 
Expat-blog Experts Team

gobot wrote:

You aren't saying it explicitly Chris, but I believe you are frustrated because you would like to improve their lives, not just teach a subject. Dumb kids don't realize the economic value of learning English, even just to intermediate level. It can get them a job in an office instead of at the quán ăn. Go from nhà nghỉ to a downtown hotel. Any number of service jobs open up to them, double, triple+ their income and opportunities, for them and their families. I could paraphrase Willie Sutton, but nah.

The reason I wound up in Vietnam is because I was helping someone who was very motivated on an English learning website, italki.com. An adult who wanted to get ahead in her career, and hoped to work for foreign companies instead. A success story.  There were also lots of school kids, mostly from China but other countries too. I answered a lot of questions and reviewed their writing. But, same as your experience, they didn't like the website, visited one or two times and disappeared. Anyway, there are people who can use your help, and it feels good to help even one and make a difference!

Thanks, man, I see you have been there. I'm sore because my ego's been bruised. Over time, they tend to take everything for granted. And not bother to keep at it. Tenacity is crucial for success, wouldn't you agree?

A new low was when a student who had always stressed that she couldn't afford lessons wanted to join a run of the mill center (only Vietnamese teachers focusing on bloody grammar). Not cheap. Oh well, the customer is king and let's hope the grammar will help her...

Keep up the work, and don't let this unpleasant experience change who you are.  Like gobot said eloquently ... time comes when you are able to make a difference to one or a handful of students you will see the satisfaction of your labor.

Can't change everyone only the few.

We can't let our egos get bruised by other people.
I read a good book once and learned a lot, The 4 Agreements.
Everyone has a different brain. Your brain handles the way you perceive the world. Your perception is filtered and modified based on your personal history of events in the past. Don't assume everyone else perceives the world in the same way. E.g., you see a lizard, you say "cool, a lizard", but the lady says "kill it" because of her fears.  Your wife says "We have to buy a bigger house" and you feel panic because you shoulder the financial burden.  A student attends an English class and you feel rejection of your offering of help.

The lizard case is easy to laugh off because you don't share the fear. The money issue means you need to align your perceptions with your wife. The student's perception was, "I don't want to learn English, but I will go because my friends are doing it". There is no reason to assume her decision was anything but.

From that book I have learned to dismiss other people's opinions easily. They can complain, criticize me, etc and it is never about me. It is about their weakness, a need to put down others to build themselves up. And I don't give them the power to be a judge of me. My parents were my judges when I as a kid. I am not going to transfer that power to anybody else. I know I am a good person with high standards. Why should I give their opinions any weight?!

Haha sorry for the philosophy - you can ignore everything I said if you like! Just _my_ perceptions...

I will try to get a copy of the book, but, you gave taught me something very important-- no wonder I do not see eye to eye with my misses....are brain is different.

I teach 6-9 year olds, im not a teacher, i am an expert in crowd control
If the kids dont want to learn, that is their problem, i teach the ones that do and ignore the ones that dont
I cannot.force ones that are not interested to get ahead in life, that is not my job

Don't teach adults, only kids.
Don't teach in the mornings or at weekends.
Interview the parents and be tough stating your expectations ...
If they come teach .... if they don't drink beer.

Yup.
Here and in other countries the teacher is "expected" to be a "life teacher and carer", to put up with kids that have very little in the way of discipline!
Give them warning and then discuss the problem with parents and see how fast the attitudes change.

One has to ask why the kids aren't interested.
Is it they're just teens with more interest in other things, or is mummy trying to force feed them with veg when they want McD?
In other words - are the lessons crap?

Fred wrote:

One has to ask why the kids aren't interested.
Is it they're just teens with more interest in other things, or is mummy trying to force feed them with veg when they want McD?
In other words - are the lessons crap?

are you insinuating something?

are you insinuating something?

Don't worry about it....
It often feels like it's pushing shit up hill ...
Don't accept their (parents) expectations, tell them yours and stick to them.
Often the parents push the kids into English classes which can make for a poor student, which can run you down.

Have a look at Genki English. It might give you a boost.

Vote4DonaldTrump wrote:

Fred wrote:

One has to ask why the kids aren't interested.
Is it they're just teens with more interest in other things, or is mummy trying to force feed them with veg when they want McD?
In other words - are the lessons crap?

are you insinuating something?

Not at all.
I'm asking if they aren't interested because the lessons send them to sleep.
Not insinuating - flat out asking if the lessons are crap or not.
Were they well planned out and interesting for the kids, or weak and poorly designed with no specific goals in mind?
If the latter is true, that would explain the problem.

The OP gave one side of a story, with no consideration to possible reasons for the lack of interest, save the opinion offered.

Jayceebee31 wrote:

....are brain is different.

What is wrong with ^ that sentence, teacher?

-JohnD- wrote:

Jayceebee31 wrote:

....are brain is different.

What is wrong with ^ that sentence, teacher?

is this a 'gotcha' type of question? He must be one of those who didn't pay attention in class...lol.

hs0zfe wrote:

Excuse me? You must be proud of your supreme powers of deduction!

These are young adults, not teenagers. And what do you think I've been doing? Boring monologues?

Role play, getting them to speak. It's more about them than me. But the "on / off" nature is frustrating. You might share the view that consistency helps? Keep making an effort for a few weeks and see how far you can go.

Role play? that sounds like stuffs people do in '50 shades of grey'

I am glad this topic is being broached here.
Ah, mayhaps I expound.....

My hope to be I come to see she has fled to her farm cause late I be. Wow woe is Me!
The 2 babes they wait her cubs , an yet now silent they be. For a Teen all is fast you see.
Teens they be... .
So V.V. prepares to come after a Dip into Bangkok for fun.. Ah bad " Adventurer " me slow to assume Papa role for 3 ...
Then the silence now I hear letters ~~ few when come. Yet onward I venture late though be..... At least I will have my new steel knee !!
My hopeful wife tells me: Teach English success for three. Well. Well ... What I fear for me?
Many with higher minds they come Diploma from high schools they beat like big drum.
We who have lived a space of time , tracks worn upon our hands neath our eyes ; tracks of time.
The young do not see as we.
So ...
Best of luck test your resolve. Every riddle you cannot solve.
Just your Best. If one remains tutoring is the game.
Focus on One and do your best!
After all this is the test.
Just do your Best.
Nay have Drums of paper to beat ? Use the wisdom of the Street bring the tracks of time to bear use the lessons only Age can share !
Stand with authority , an laugh with them.
Make the " students " address their peers in English only my gentle dear ~
Grimace and laugh be a poet... When needs arise the switch , a lash ; of direct and steady gaze stand tall be light but storm if wrath.

Capture them.. Capture them... Bring the World Alive .
Engage their imagination... Capture them.

This is part of the: Grand Game , upon an intimate note.
Capture them they will learn by rote.

Honestly do things backwards. Seriously.
Involve them... A blackboard is a beautiful tool!!

Get them up there. Make them laugh. They will come!
V.V.

I am getting hungry looking at bouncing lamb.
Mmm good !
Hungry !!
All aside. Dynamacism. Get them involved. Off their Arse ... Make it competitive and FUN.
Get them writing.
Make one day outdoor mobile. Afileld ..
More tricks cannot betray. Only those for this day.
Cheers !! V.V.

Vote4DonaldTrump wrote:

Role play? that sounds like stuffs people do in '50 shades of grey'

Seriously? Your screen name tells us all we need to know about your openness to change and/or things you do not understand.

Role play is a GREAT classroom tool when facilitated properly (with your clothes on, V4DT).

Vote4DonaldTrump wrote:

-JohnD- wrote:

Jayceebee31 wrote:

....are brain is different.

What is wrong with ^ that sentence, teacher?

is this a 'gotcha' type of question? He must be one of those who didn't pay attention in class...lol.

"a 'gotcha' type of question" seems to be any question to some...

It's "... our brain is different", genius.

-JohnD- wrote:

Vote4DonaldTrump wrote:

-JohnD- wrote:

What is wrong with ^ that sentence, teacher?

is this a 'gotcha' type of question? He must be one of those who didn't pay attention in class...lol.

"a 'gotcha' type of question" seems to be any question to some...

It's "... our brain is different", genius.

Thank you for that captain obvious.

PhucDatBiet:
Life scary.  Truths scary. Padwan Luke try learn all. Scary.
No problem. Just laugh. Then all will be well.
If cannot laugh about misfortune, or travail such lost humor heals not. Must laugh. Even at own sillyness. Not need to understand all. Adapt.
V.V.

hs0zfe...I've been over here nearly 13 years.  I have taught from Hanoi to HCMC.  I now live in DaNang.  I fully understand what you are going through.  I just don't play the game with them.  This is what I tell them up front and have on all my Syllabuses and flyers.  I don't teach 'half-hearted' students.  I quit wasting my time years back.  I desire to instruct for their gains and future.  I stopped doing the ESL facilities and putting money in their pocket while students gained little to nothing over periods of years.  I don't dance, sing songs or play games.  These students have a syllabus; instructed to read, do homework, forward reports over e-mail and be on time.
I am now teaching out of my home with Ministry of Education and Department of Labor approval for both students and business individuals.  The students (mostly one on one) are as young as 15 years of age being very serious and determined to pass the TOEFL requirements.  The programs are from 14 to 26 weeks and have shown to be acceptable thus far.  The Advanced group of TOEFL and TOEIC seem to desire to achieve more confidence and ability to pronounce and speak properly.  Some of my advanced adults have been with me for nearly two years.  I started with general conversation, pronunciation, speaking, writing and more.  In the previous 15 months, I have 4 now in the US attending college and one leaving this month for Saudi Arabia for a job.
I give students one month to prove to me; they are willing to do...I've sent several out the door due to their 'excuses' and being 'tired' all the time.  I have no problem 'opening the door' for them and spending extra time on testing, report reviews and support.  They have to enter and want...
I do for a fee, some at reduced rates and at times for free depending on their ability and desire.
I'm busy and it's just been from 'word of mouth' from the students I have.
Good Luck

I see "Vote4DonaldTrump" changed his name to "PhucDatBiet"... is that like calling the HUGE guy "Tiny"?

PhucDatBiet wrote:

-JohnD- wrote:

Vote4DonaldTrump wrote:

is this a 'gotcha' type of question? He must be one of those who didn't pay attention in class...lol.

"a 'gotcha' type of question" seems to be any question to some...

It's "... our brain is different", genius.

Thank you for that captain obvious.

Anthony, Thanks for the details and experience shared.