Sending Money via Western Union

Hello JLJ417,

Thanks for your input.

While I'm not familiar with any taxes on foreign currency transactions through banks in Colombia, there are taxes on such transactions here in Brazil. The Brazilian govenment is hellbent on re-introducing yet another, which was revoked several years ago. These make transactions through services like Xoom less attractive here than they may be in Colombia.

Brazilian banks also are required to report account information for all of their US citizen clients directly to the IRS under terms of FATCA, and since there is no bilateral Tax Treaty between the USA and Brazil, Social Security payments which have already been taxed in the USA are also subject to Brazilian Income Tax as well if deposited to a Brazilian bank account. If however the individual withdraws money directly from their US account through an ATM those taxes do not apply. That's a very big difference.

There is a Tax Treaty between Canada and Brazil, which states clearly that unless I become a Brazilian citizen my Canadian Pension Plan benefits are not taxable in Brazil. Even so, I would never have them deposited to a Brazilian account at any rate, just to eliminate any errors. In fact, I don't even have, and wouldn't have a Brazilian bank account anyway. Not worth the hassles. I've been here for almost 14 years now and really never needed a bank account in this country.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

I can see where using your atm card is a definite advantage. Colombia does tax financial transactions:

Financial transactions tax
A 0.4% tax rate is imposed on all all financial transactions, including withdraw money from ATM, promissory notes, wire transfers, internet banking, bank drafts and bank checks, money on term deposit, overdrafts, installment loans, securities underwriting commitments and other forms of off-balance sheet exposures, safekeeping of documents and other items in safe deposit boxes, currency exchange or unit trusts..

They also have a graduated income tax which foreign nationals become subject to after five years residency.

I use my atm card from my US bank account for most purposes, but do make tranfers to my wifes Colmbian bank account. She has not been taxed on these transfers.

Here in Brazil anyone in the country longer than 180 days is considered a "resident for tax purposes" regardless of their visa status since 180 days is the limit for tourists. If you're here on a VITEM-V Work Visa or VIPER Permanent Visa you're taxable from the day you arrive in Brazil. Big difference.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

I've been withdrawal my pension from an ATM at Banco Do Brazil for more than 2 years without problems. I'm getting the current exchange rate and no ATM or fees from my bank in the USA. It might be time to check out another US Bank.

The main agency for collection of Western Union Transfers in Brasil is practically any main branch of Banco do Brasil.

The person sending the money just has to go to the Western Union Agency office in their Country (a list is on the Western Union Site). The only details they have to give is your full name (letter perfect as on your passport) plus where you are in Brasil - such as São Paulo, Brasil etc.

The Western Union Office will then issue a ten digit MTCN code which they have to pass to you by any means, e-mail, SMS, telephone call etc. IMmediately to have this code you can go to Banco do Brasil with a copy of your Passport and withdraw funds. N.B. there is a daily limit which has to be under R$10,000.00 a day. Over this the transfer could be intercepted by Banco Central. Also remember soem minor branches may not have large amounts of cash readily available.

I hope that this may be of assistance.

Although James comes off as an expert on most everything Brazilian, I would say that in the area of Western Union I am an expert. I have been sending money every week for over 13 years. A name is all you need. There is not even a field to add a CPF on the WU form. You are given a money transfer number (MTN) from WU. Give that number to the recipient and yes, make sure the name matches the ID exactly. Banco Brasil is where my friends and family receive their payouts. Enjoy the exchange rate.

Thank You Michael for the Information.

Thank You Mr Sheldon for the Information.

But i want to inform you, when i wanted to send money from Brazil to India & to USA by showing my RNE,  they insisted that without CPF i cannot send money. And i can send money only to the Relatives. So i asked then i will send to my sister in USA through my wife's ID(as sister in-law), for which they denied saying - since family name is different, etc. I am talking about the Western Union at Limeira (Sao Paulo State). Later i applied for CPF & i was forced to send by showing my RNE & CPF.

Mr. Sheldon,

Would you please explain how it is possible to send money through Western Union (from within Brazil) without giving them YOUR CPF/CNPJ number at the very least. You need to produce your identification for any financial transaction in Brazil so both the Banco Central and Receita Federal can track it if necessary.

When sending money to Brazil via Western Union, having an MTN or not the bank is going to still ask you to produce both your RG and CPF if you're a Brazilian or RNE and CPF if you're an expat. I've received money here by WU and I can tell you that the banks here won't release a single centavo without your CPF. So while the person making the remittance may not have to provide your CPF and RNE numbers to Western Union, you most certainly will have to provide full identification to the bank in Brazil (sending or receiving funds).

If you're not providing that information to the bank with your weekly transactions then it's because that sometime in the beginning you did provide it and they already have it on file. If you're a client at the bank they already have your CPF/CNPJ because you can't open an account without one. In order for a non-client to cash out the WU funds at a bank in Brazil they're going to be asked for their RG/RNE and CPF/CNPJ that is an absolute certainty, heck they won't even cash a local check without your CPF/CNPJ and RG/RNE, really now.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Oh yes, and I can tell you from personal experience that the last time I received money through WU here in Macaé - RJ at the beginning of this year, it was a painful 4 hour process at the bank even though I had the MTN. I can assure you that I was required to produce both my RNE and CPF before I received my money.

Despite the fact that Banco do Brasil (Bradesco in some locations) is contracted by Western Union as their representative in Brazil, the banks ARE NOT accustomed to these transactions and the "cambio" regulations that govern foreign transactions. The staff member at the bank I dealt with was completely out of his depth and had to run off every 5 minutes to confer with the branch manager, who also seemed to be very confused about everything to do with Western Union at all. I can only imagine how much more confused they'd be if I was trying to send funds out of Brazil, because that's a whole other world of bureaucratic red tape.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

I never sent money out of Brasil, I send money to Brasil regularly.

Thanks for all the information. I was able to send the funds to th Northeast and the recieving party had to produce all mentioned documents  of identification. The fee for sending was $8.00 usd  from the USA and the pick up fee was based on aproximate fee of 3% of the total amount. I did not have to include the CPF in the Western Union and the Banco do Brasil was the bank used by Western Union in Belem. The most important thing is making sure you spell the reciever name correctly and furnishing the MTCN and amount in Reals to the recieving party.

Hi JLJ417,

Good to know that you used Xoom to send money to Chile & Columbia, from Brazil. To use Xoom services you need to have USA Bank Account or Credit Card? When i tried to send money to India through Xoom from Brazil, but it asked USA Bank Account or Credit Card, which i do not have. Any alternative?

Hello to all,
I have been sending Western Union for the last 2 months to my friend in Brazil.

Today my friend stated that the Bank told her

" The Next time money is sent by Western Union she must open a account to recieve the funds".

I spoke with Western Union and the person there said it was not a policy or rule to recieve funds.

Has anyone ever heard of such a bone head requirement to recieve funds, for the bank is paid there percentage for the transaction and I am wondering if this is a up selling point for opening an account and if   the teller recieves a reward or bonus for opening new accounts.

I have opened a complaint with Western Union regarding this bogus requirement of the Bank for they are only a agent and are required to pay who ever and whenever as long as the person to be paid has the necessary documents and information

Thanks all replys are Welcome

I have never heard of any bank demanding that a Western Union client open an account before. I wonder what the hell they'd do if she can't open a checking account because she has restrictions registered against her CPF. It's good that you notified Western Union at your end and asked them to contact the agency here in order to get them to stop or take sanctions against them.

Depending on the size of the city there may be more than one branch of the bank that acts as a Western Union agency, if so she should try the other bank branch.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

OK, so reading this post, concerning my pension and social security payments, if they are automatically deposited to my credit union account in the U.S., and I only use the ATM to withdraw money in Brazil, there is no way the Receita Federal knows about my income, and cannot tax it?  But what about the fact I have to verify that income to the consulate in order to have my retirement visa approved?  The system is screwed up enough that the Receita Federal does not get that info from the consulate?

The problem with the VIPER Permanent Visa for retirement is that the legislation requires the pension funds be transfered to a Brazilian bank account (pre-existing or to be set up) to qualify for the visa. So as a US citizen there's no way to avoid the Brazilian government taxing that income. If your annual taxable income from any sources, including the pension, exceeds R$22.499,13 you are required automatically required to file an annual DIRPF (Declaração de Imposto de Renda - Pessoa Física). You must report your pension as foreign (worldwide) income.

Since there is no bilateral Tax Treaty between the USA and Brazil you have absolutely no protection against double taxation apart from what you might have under IRS regulations. I'm not familiar with US tax laws, but I'm sure that there are provisions for deducting taxes that are paid to foreign governments.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

There are provisions if you have income other than social security you can claim those taxes paid to Brazil and deduct from taxes you paid in the US. But that said there are no taxes on Social Security payments to individuals deducted from the payments or paid in taxes, thus there is no refund from which to claim the taxes exemption from. So unless you are working in the US or Brazil and are paying taxes to The US I don't believe you can recoup the taxes in Brazil using the taxes exemption route in the US. At least this is my understanding of it.

So James, can you possibly explain how one can set up a Brazil bank account to deposit the SS and pension payments to prior to having the retirement visa?  It has always been my understanding that it's not possible for a foreigner to open a Brazilian bank account until after they have a resident visa.

That's generally correct, so that is why they will allow you to apply for the visa and open the account later. I believe that the bank will do all the paperwork for account opening and provide written confirmation to the DPF that opening is pending. For the application for the visa, you only need to prove that your (home) bank perpared to transfer R$6000 per month for the retiree and up to 2 dependents, R$2000 per month for each additional dependent. I would assume that the applicant is under some obligation to return to the DPF later to prove opening of the Brazilian account. I doubt that they just take one's word for something like that.

There are also people who have worked in Brazil on VITEM-V visas who eventually appy for permanency based on retirement, so they do have existing accounts. Banks here will open accounts for VITEM-V holders, it is however more difficult and usually the employer helps.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Why would you want to retire in Brazil?  Sure the weather is about the same year round except maybe for the extreme southern part of the country.  I can think of many nicer places to retire. They say Taiwan  is wonderful for retirees from the US no taxes on SS. Just curious? If my wife ever sells the Salon we just might go back to the US.  It is far simpler to get things done there.

My second question is have you dealt with Brazilian bureaucracy yet? To get my wife added to my bank account here is ridiculous on the red tape with the bank. I spent an hour and a half waiting just to speak to someone about it, to find out what documentation she needs to get added to the account.

Hey John,

My reasons for retiring to Brazil are many, but the primary reason is the people I am associated with in a poor community in the NE.  I have spent considerable time in Brazil the past 9 years.  And yes, I have experienced the bureaucracy.  We established an ONG in 2010 from scratch which was no small feat, trust me.

Other than that, it's an adventure. I could do any number of things to occupy my time, but I would get bored here in the U.S.  I've been to Asia, and I prefer Brazil.  The NE is very beautiful if you take the back roads and explore the countryside.  And, the weather is very much to my liking. 

I could focus on all the negatives, but I can find negative circumstances anywhere I go, including the U.S.  Sure, there are easier, more comfortable places to live, but that isn't so important to me.  Maybe that's because my life has never been easy or comfortable, and that's by design.

Hope that sort of answers your question.

travelr64 wrote:

My reasons for retiring to Brazil are many, but the primary reason is the people...

Your reasons are your own, and no matter WHAT they may be they are valid reasons. Sometimes we just need to make a big change in our lives. I applaud your courage, especially since you know that living in and adapting to Brazil isn't going to be easy.

One thing on the plus side is the fact that right now the US greenback is at an all-time high compared to the Real, that sure can't hurt.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

I have used Xoom in the past. The service no longer makes itself availiable in Goiania. I would have to go to Minas to fetch my money. This caused me to look into Xoom. I will not give my findings, but I strongly encourage anyone interested in online transfer services to look hard at any service.  I prefer using my ATM card.

Is yur wife Brasilian? If so you get a pass on a LOT of stuff. It's all on the website.