Your experience of culture shock in Ecuador

A lot of Gringos fight in their minds against the way things are done differently in Ecuador.

They want to know ....

   ... why are those two women with a shopping cart cutting in front of me at the supermarket?

   ... why do I have to show my ID if I am paying in cash?

   ... why am I always being asked what kind of receipt I want?

   ... why is this taxi driver I met five minutes ago asking me how much I paid for my condo?

I don't have all the answers to these questions.  I just know that life is easier if I just surrender to the fact that things are different here from Peekskill, New York... or Eden Prairie, Minnesota ... or Virginia Beach.

Rolling with these small things, not fighting them ... leaves me extra energy to focus on more important stuff.

And if I tell the taxista who asked the condo price ...

  "No quiero aparecer grosero, pero no le incumbe a nadie"...

   (I don't want to appear rude, but that's nobody's business)...

He'll usually accept that response in a cordial manner y ya --  and that's that.

cccmedia in Quito

Christine wrote:

What is your advice regarding the don'ts and what would you recommend to avoid any mistake?

Avoid any mistake, Christine?  Surely you jest. 

Better not to worry about mistakes and instead learn from them.  No blood, no foul.

Of course, personal and physical security is a different story, where mistakes can potentially mean bodily harm.

Follow the old trite advice in this realm -- don't walk alone at night on semi-lit empty streets ... don't stand out as a target ... stay out of bad neighborhoods ... follow your instinct if something seems wrong such as a stranger becoming too friendly or too physically close ... and don't stand up to a maldito with a weapon.

cccmedia in Quito

I completely agree,

Probably the hardest thing to overcome is the "Manana" factor. Coming from the U.S. especially you are accustomed to instant gratification. It just does not happen here. Luckily in my case I have lived in other places (Hawaii) that have a similar mindset. Not to mention that the Military teaches "hurry up and wait". If not for that I would, like many others be pulling my hair out.

For example, we had some furniture made. When I asked when it would be done we were told Wednesday, this was Saturday. From that I mistakenly assumed that it would be delivered Wednesday. I clearly asked the wrong question, it was done Thursday and would be delivered Saturday...  My wife seeing my aggrevation educated me on the situation. She said it is common to add at least day or days to any projected completion time, not to include delivery the time.

Welcome to Ecuador.

In Ecuador many things are different, and done differently. The country has it's own rythem if you will. To fight the system is futile. If you came to Ecuador to relax, then relax. There is nothing to be gained from being in a rush, except frustration. Besides in the meantime there is plenty to see and do, as you wait.

When you deal with the Government offices, and you will at some point. Remember that your sense of urgency will not prompt immediate action in them. Patience and a smile will go a long way.

This is a pretty small thing but it took me a while to remember that whenever we walk into a store or greet a person anywhere it's polite to say, "Buenos dias" or appropriate time of day. Then say whatever else we want to say. In the States I would see someone in a store aisle and might start by saying, "Do you know where X is?" without prefacing it with "Hi," or something similar. I said it with a smile on my face and that was enough. That is so rude here. Now, even if I forget for a minute and start in with my question, I'll stop, apologize, and start over with a proper greeting. The looks I get show that my correction is definitely appreciated.

The toughest thing for me was not speaking Spanish when I got here. I didn't expect people here to speak English and I knew it would be a problem but it was what it was. I felt I wouldn't be able to learn enough in the States to do any good when I got here so I just didn't do it. That was a mistake for me. I strongly recommend people at least learn survival Spanish before coming, even for a vacation. It's invaluable. The up side of not learning before I got here is that my accent is local and that's nice. I have more locals compliment me on my Spanish than I think would do it if I learned from a non-Ecuadorian. Oh, and the biggest embarrassing moment that resulted from that was when I was ordering a piece of furniture and said I wanted drawers underneath it. Of course it was "said" mostly in charades but I got the point across because the carpenter said, "Ah, cajones." I was shocked. I was sure I knew that word and it didn't mean drawers. Well, of course it did. The word I thought he was saying was "cojones." That one little vowel makes a huge difference (kind of like sex and six).

cjcollett wrote:

the carpenter said, "Ah, cajones." I was shocked. I was sure I knew that word and it didn't mean drawers. Well, of course it did. The word I thought he was saying was "cojones." That one little vowel makes a huge difference.

Finally got that cajones - cojones thing cleared up, thanks to you, Cynthia.

After reviewing both at www.wordreference.com , I also now know the chief synonym for the latter -- testiculos (tess-TEE-koo-lohs).

cccmedia in Quito

Ah, yes, testiculos. Speaking of those, I learned that having a male dog fixed is called castrado. That's fairly descriptive as well.

The culture shock here for me pales in comparison to the culture change taking place in so-called America - as if South America is less than or non-existent compared to North America.  I grew up in a ranch, mixed with the Latino villagers in social life and went to a white-culture school.  I mixed well with both and still do here in Ecuador, and they don't hyphenate people.  I find the manana factor relaxing and never have been a night person. 

The social life of the Latinos always was family-oriented, so our social life always included our parents.  I learned the word and meaning of "teenager" when I moved to the city and noticed kids didn't want parents hanging out with them.  I felt so safe with my parents.

Quitenos are not rude with me, it's the foreigners coming in.  "Mande?" is a very humble word for "what?" and the questions asked that seem rude are really not meant to be rude.  I simply use my sense of humor and give a silly non-sensical answer when asked a question I don't want to answer, and we laugh.

The gun culture of the US is slowly creeping over here.  Scary.  Think of it... the drug culture started with "latch-key kids with no mom at home to guide them.  They formed "family" in the streets.  Drugs took the place of cigarette smoking.  Addiction slowly became the norm.  Without customers there wouldn't be drug cartels or a need for "protection."  God and His commandments have been and are being abandoned, therefore, sobriety is rare because something or Someone has to keep us going... and it continues.  Money only works temporarily.

1st thing: it is not a culture shock to live in another country.as it says living in someone elses country.i´ve lived in many countries throughout my 67 years of life.the people i´ve met in guayaquil,eucador and surrounding areas have got to be the most rudest,disrespectful people i have ever encountered.they want to be 1st of everything.they buy something and get in the line at the market and forget something and leave the cart there then come back and want to be before everyone else.you stand in line to pay for your electric,water,phone,etc and someone always wants to get before you.this not culture.it is inbred from top to bottom.if you want to put money into the bank don´t put much.if you leave it cost you 5% of everything you send back.where ever you go you pay 12% taxes + a service charge(restaurants,cafes ,etc).never,ever expect professional services of anything.from dental,lawyer,nobody.)never expect good clean restrooms any where you go.and be prepared to take your own toilet paper.the only true good thing here are the taxis.always reliable,ready to negotiate their fees and are generally polite.i´m speaking of experience.not culture shock.attitude.and don´t think the people are poor.they are not

Gringuito's view of Guayaquil -- Ecuador's most crime-challenged city, a hot and humid place not even at the ocean -- does not apply to all of Ecuador.

In my years of living here in Quito... the dentist, the attorney, the home renovation people and others do good work and have a friendly, helpful attitude.

Nobody is living on the street due to high property or restaurant taxes.  My property tax is thirty dollars a year.

cccmedia in Quito

Parents of children, when driving, seem to have little regard for the safety of their children, by driving in a non-safe fashion (I could elaborate but there is a whole other discussion on this site with regard to the driving topic). Although, when they are not driving they are very supportive of family (almost to an excess). It is very common for children to live at home until they are married (which could even involve an age beyond 25). I have seen children still living at home when they are in their 40's and 50's. It is also common for the elderly to live out there lives with their children under the same roof.

It is important, and shows respect, to kiss a woman on the cheek (or at least make the motion) and shake the hand of a man when greeting them even if you have never met them before. And this is carried on when you meet those same people in the future. Family members meeting other family members do this all the time. In fact, they will make a point of wandering around a room making contact with each individual present (at least at a family gathering).

When you are invited for dinner it is expected that you take a bottle of whatever you know that a person drinks even if it costs $80 a bottle. Of course this does not apply to families on a very limited budget. If you do not do this you might never be invited back. This has happened to me. I am curious what others have experienced with regard to this point.

To make noise, is an accepted right. I have experienced a family down the street playing loud music at 3am in the morning in celebration of the day of the mother (I am not sure if this coincides with Mother's Day). These were middle-aged people. This went on for about one hour and then stopped. As we all know, car alarms and barking dogs are very common. Shooting off some sort of fireworks after 12am is not uncommon (at least in Cuenca).

Drivers of cars believe that they have the right-of-way always: Pedestrians beware!

Overcharging seems to be regarded as a norm. This is not strictly where Gringos are involved. I have an Ecuadorian friend who owns several units that he rents in an apartment building. Recently he had to have some work done on his hot water heaters. The repairman was going to charge him $350 (approx.) for a new water pump. My friend said "No" and then went out and found one for $75. This is not the only incident I have seen of this sort. If they can overcharge and get away with it they will. And they do not seem to think it is rude. Not all, but some Ecuadorians with apartments think nothing of charging exorbitant prices for rent.

Ecuadorians are far more accepting of poor living conditions than North Americans are. They like better living conditions when they experience them, but are still happy without them. We tend to be quite picky, likely because we have become accustomed to a better lifestyle. I have seen people that have dogs where their front patio is littered with dog poop and it sometimes stays that way for several days.

Quality customer service is uncommon. Once they have your money in their pocket they don't seem to care much.

Patience, patience, patience. That is the very best advice I can give. (Plus deep breathing.)

As MikeGB noted, service standards are not always what we've come to expect. They don't have a "build a relationship with the customer" mentality, for the most part. I've had friends that have had very good customer experiences when errors have been made (when they were patient - did I say that already?) I don't think poor customer service (or what we would consider poor) is out of spite, more from lack of knowledge. The reality is that most of the working population hasn't been exposed to service training - if their bosses or family haven't experienced it, how can we expect them to know any better?

My experience is that things aren't the same and you have to embrace it. (I might sing a different tune when the internet is out, to be sure.)

Ecuadorians as a whole don't like conflict (as far as I can tell) and avoid it by telling you what they think you want to hear. I try and be very specific when I ask questions and let them know that if the answer is 'no' I'll understand.

They do drive like lunatics (I don't know what happens to such a kind, gentle people behind the wheel) - but consider that the car culture here is relatively new, so it's like having a bunch of 20 somethings out on the road.

Finally family life is of the utmost importance here. Some might find it hard to "assimilate" due to the insular nature of Ecuadorian day to day life.If you can get a family to "adopt" you, you can't ask for any better.

Whatever the difficulties, we've found the benefits to far outweigh them, once we learned to breath.

I do concur, but...

Yes, what the above posters have pointed out is a common occurrence, and I have myself witnessed and or been subject to the same attitudes.

Yes, it very clearly is a generational attitude, and will most likely continue.

What I don't get is the bashing and outright anger shown by the posters. Part of being labeled an "Ugly American", is the fact that many want or even demand that things in a foreign country be as they are in the U.S. or wherever they came from, this is not going to happen.

Can these attitudes be insulting or maddening? Sure, but one must remember that this is not our country to fix, change, or alter. Unless you have become a citizen. The people of Ecuador have lived this way for longer than Expats have been here and very well may continue to do so.

One can find many activities here that are shocking and outright irresponsible, in our eyes.

Fault can be found in every country, without exception. To trash talk another society and it's people is pointless. Perhaps these are learned traits from Expats before us, who can say? What I do know is that carrying and projecting a negative attitude will not win you any new friends or attentive service. 

Not having a smile returned, should not ruin your day. If so it must be very difficult to go through life with such thin skin. Things can on a daily basis happen which can be labelled as rude, ignorant, selfish, entitled etc. The key is how a person handles these attitudes and actions. It is said that in any given situation a person has one of two choices, you can be part of the solution, or you can be part of the problem...

In the end it is as simple as this, there are courteous and friendly people in Ecuador. Which group you will be a part of is your decision. If you are that upset about the way society and the people here are, then why are you here?

Have a coke and a smile people, things could always be much worse.

I am from South America. Have lived in the US since 1965. Was 12 years old when my parents immigrated. Have always considered myself Latin.  I have traveled back and forth in these two cultures for a long time. There are things that infuriate me in both and things i love in both. Sometimes the rigidness of the US culture becomes boring and the chaos of Latin America makes me crazy. But I think a little bit of both is just right. The key word is ADAPT.
"When in Rome do as the Romans" as they say.

GMC(SW) wrote:

I do concur, but...

Yes, what the above posters have pointed out is a common occurrence, and I have myself witnessed and or been subject to the same attitudes.

Yes, it very clearly is a generational attitude, and will most likely continue.

What I don't get is the bashing and outright anger shown by the posters. Part of being labeled an "Ugly American", is the fact that many want or even demand that things in a foreign country be as they are in the U.S. or wherever they came from, this is not going to happen.

None of the above posts involve "bashing and outright anger" with the exception of Gringuita's post. There is a little animosity showing there. However, for the most part it has been honest and relative to the questions originally posed. Perhaps you did not mean in this set of posts. I have seen this "bashing" on other sites and it is not nice nor warranted. These are just strictly opinions that are not meant to be derogatory.

In my case, I still enjoy living here despite the differences. You can adapt if you really want to.

i am telling people(expats)to look at the realization of living here.the people are not reverent to respect.they have no qualms of staying blasting their stereos all night long,they have no feeling of respect of your privacy of anything.it´s a me,me,mine thinking here.so you better get used to it before you come here.whether you´re ecuadorian or not.just be ready for it

MikeGB wrote:

When you are invited for dinner it is expected that you bring a bottle of whatever you know that a person drinks even if it costs $80 a bottle....

To make noise, is an accepted right. I have experienced a family down the street playing loud music at 3am in the morning in celebration of the day of the mother....As we all know, car alarms and barking dogs are very common. Shooting off some sort of fireworks after 12am is not uncommon (at least in Cuenca).

It's hard to believe any locals are expecting a Gringo to show up for a dinner-invite with an 80-dollar bottle of Champaña Sofisticada.  I'd bring a decent wine or a bottle of aguardiente, and let the chips fall where they may if my host feels slighted.

A lot of the stuff on this thread is stuff a Gringo can get used to or learn how to deal with ... but losing sleep over dog-barking or stereo-blasting is over the line.

What to do?

First of all, rent, don't buy, at least for the first year in Ecuador... and then only buy if you feel certain you are protected from late night/early morning noise at the purchase location.

An apartment located in an inner courtyard of a condo complex where the management is attuned to Gringo noise complaints ... might be ideal.  Double-pane glass or extra inside windows give noise insulation.  Personally, I use earplugs and don't hear any of it -- the dogs, late-night stereos, the early-morning buses passing 15 feet from my bedroom or an occasional siren/car alarm that may be sounding.

With the double windows, you just get used to ambient outside noise and pay no attention to it after a while.

cccmedia in Quito

gringuito wrote:

i am telling people(expats)to look at the realization of living here.the people are not reverent to respect.they have no qualms of staying blasting their stereos all night long,they have no feeling of respect of your privacy of anything.it´s a me,me,mine thinking here.so you better get used to it before you come here.whether you´re ecuadorian or not.just be ready for it

And yet what I'm hearing is "Blah blah blah, I'm a total racists." On behalf of my Ecuadorian wife and children, I'm offended. Yes, our family has encountered some rude selfish people, and some neighborhoods that seemed to be really obnoxious... just like in the US. Just like anywhere. The whole cutting in line thing... Americans are the ones with the weird orderly line hypersensitivity. Most of the rest of the world approaches lines in a much more opportunistic way.

You assume your experiences are indicative of all people here. Perhaps the problem is you. Maybe you irritate the Ecuadorians and so they treat you with the same sort of disrespect you are showing them here on these forums. You should probably move.

cccmedia, you live in Quito, answer me this if you can -

We spent 8 or 10 days in a hostal in the Colonial Centre, just a couple of blocks from the presidential palace/square and all that.

Our room on the 2nd floor had a balcony where we spent much time watching Quito go by. Including a tram line which seemed to run about every 15 minutes, loaded to the brim with Quitoites, and the tram had a loudspeaker horn system which honked out 'Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer' as it zipped along.

It this usual, or was that tram line special in some way? Or maybe the other trams have different songs like 'Yes, We Have No Bananas'? I thought the tram honking out Rudolph was hilarious. 

Great new topic...

I grew up near the Mexican border and traveled both there and in Central America for over 30 years before deciding to retire in Ecuador. So, Spanish was a given for me, and I can't stress enough the importance of learning "the new language" before making a move to any foreign country - and I say this for two reasons: 1) Being able to speak the language will lessen your culture shock big time! I say this because I have also lived in three other countries where I did NOT speak the local language, and the added stress and difficulty that was added to my life deeply lessened my ability to acculturate sooner. 2) To move to another country without even attempting to try and learn the language is not only absurd, I believe it is truly disrespectful to the local people. I have seen so many expats act as though the locals should bow to their every whim - and most especially in the area of the local language.

Beyond this, what has amazed me most about living in Ecuador has been the kindness of the Ecuadorians themselves. After having lived abroad in cities that were huge, loud and full of pollution, I intentionally chose to live in the countryside - and I have not regretted that decision for a single second. The people where I live have become like family to me. We exchange greetings, ask about the family, and they come for coffee and to visit just like people did when I was growing up. When I need to get something done, they help me to find the right maestro to get a job done correctly. They have also helped me get "local" prices rather than be taken by "extranjero" prices, and they have even gone so far to drive me to the local ER in the middle of the night when I had a toothache.

However, I think it's important to remember that there is both give and take in all relationships, and, as in any community in the world, giving back is as important as receiving. I have found that there is often a "gap" between the locals and the expats, and, as one neighbor put it, "We just don't know how to become friends with the extranjeros" because we don't really interact with them." In order to try and bridge this gap. I help both the local school and the neighbors with issues regarding English. I share my truck when someone needs to haul something and I pick up the campesinos along the road as I drive into town. As well, I am part of a movement here in the south to increase awareness of animal welfare and animal ownership that is paying off in many wonderful ways.

In my mind, living in Ecuador is the greatest gift I have received since the birth of my children, and I hope that what I do here will, in some way, pay this wonderful culture back for all of its kindness, help and open-heartedness!

gardener1 wrote:

we spent much time watching Quito go by. Including a tram line which seemed to run about every 15 minutes, loaded to the brim with Quitoites, and the tram had a loudspeaker horn system which honked out 'Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer' as it zipped along.

Well, Top Cat, you never know what you're going to get on a Quito bus.  But you can bet there will be music over a speaker and it will be loud.  Most of us get used to the din after a while.

You were witnessing an infamously crowded trole line bus .. all the more crowded if it was during the busy navidad season in December.

That bus driver was playing "Rudolph."  The next one might have played "Feliz Navidad" (literally, Happy Christmas), although possibly through a sound system inside the bus, not the honky-tonk blasting you apparently heard.

cccmedia in Quito

gardener1 wrote:

Is this usual, or was that tram line special in some way?... I thought the tram honking out Rudolph was hilarious. 

There are also year-round party buses known as chivas which seem especially popular here in Centro Historico, driving around between 10 p.m. and midnight.

Up to two dozen revelers pack into each of these oversized pickup trucks decked out in flashing Christmas lights and blasting music -- the party-ers drinking glass after glass of the Ecuadorian equivalent of cheap moonshine.

I live on a popular chiva route on calle Oriente, so it's common for me to hear several of these go by during those hours if I am at home on a Friday or Saturday night.

cccmedia in Quito

Yes I saw those party buses.

These were regular trams/trolleys running a regular route all day every day at 15 or 20 minute intervals. Overhead electric wires and a rail in the pavers.

Another way Quito bus and trole drivers express themselves is by posting signage in the front of the bus.

Sometimes these signs contain motivating sayings or Dios-bless-this-bus type of thing.

Just yesterday I rode on the Basilica bus.  The driver had a four-foot-wide painted inscription above the large windshield.

It said:  Solo por ser amable Me llaman mujeriego.  They're just being kind when they call me a ladies man.

cccmedia in Quito

Mujeriego can also be translated as skirt chaser, womanizer, Don Juan or Casanova.

[Second-day clarification... As explained by subsequent posters, a more Ecuadorian translation of the mujeriego quotation is:  "Just for being kind, they call me a ladies man."]

I have been living in Cuenca for two and a half years, married to a indegions wife, The disappointment  of learning of the racism  and the harshness of it was a sad disappointment.  Robert

An63680 wrote:

I have been living in Cuenca for two and a half years, married to a indegions wife. The disappointment  of learning of the racism and the harshness of it was a sad disappointment.  Robert

North American Gringos often marry Ecuadorianas but few take "indegions" wives, so most of us have no idea what you might be referring to.

Sure, Gringos get different treatment from the locals -- due to differences in culture and language and perceived affluence.  But does it rise to the level of racism?

The only time I felt overtly excluded on such a basis was when I asked a priest in Otavalo if I could meditate for half an hour in his empty church on a weekday?  He asked if I was Catholic, and when he learned I was raised Jewish, he denied my entry to the iglesia.

cccmedia in Quito

Hi,  "Solo por ser amable me llaman mujeriego" translates "Just because I'm being amiable (to women), they call me a womanizer."  Your translation is a typical gringo translation, but it's off the mark.  Sorry.

cccmedia wrote:

The only time I felt overtly excluded on such a basis was when I asked a priest in Otavalo if I could meditate for half an hour in his empty church on a weekday?  He asked if I was Catholic, and when he learned I was raised Jewish, he denied my entry to the iglesia.
cccmedia in Quito

I am sorry that you experienced such an outrageous situation especially when it came from  a religious source. Religious tolerance at it's best.

cccmedia wrote:

An63680 wrote:

I have been living in Cuenca for two and a half years, married to a indegions wife. The disappointment  of learning of the racism and the harshness of it was a sad disappointment.  Robert

North American Gringos often marry Ecuadorianas but few take "indegions" wives, so most of us have no idea what you might be referring to.

Sure, Gringos get different treatment from the locals -- due to differences in culture and language and perceived affluence.  But does it rise to the level of racism?

The only time I felt overtly excluded on such a basis was when I asked a priest in Otavalo if I could meditate for half an hour in his empty church on a weekday?  He asked if I was Catholic, and when he learned I was raised Jewish, he denied my entry to the iglesia.

cccmedia in Quito

Perhaps he was speaking of indegions being discriminated against.

There are no Jewish temples in Quito?  He must be one of those The Jews Killed Jesus Catholics.

Andrellita wrote:

Hi,  "Solo por ser amable me llaman mujeriego" translates "Just because I'm being amiable (to women), they call me a womanizer."  Your translation is a typical gringo translation, but it's off the mark.  Sorry.

In defense of CCC, he did state that the word could have different meanings (of which "womanizer" was one of the words). I think you are being overly harsh and I think you should apologize.

Hi,  I'm being misinterpreted by an over- sensitive gringo.  I love linguistics, and one of my favorite mis-translations is one I saw at the Basilica once that read, "Dear estimated guests..." from the word estimados, which translates esteemed.  No apologies needed for noticing mistakes.  I like to use my sense of humor.  Nothing wrong with that.  Try it.

MikeGB wrote:

Andrellita wrote:

Hi,  "Solo por ser amable me llaman mujeriego" translates "Just because I'm being amiable (to women), they call me a womanizer."  Your translation is a typical gringo translation, but it's off the mark.  Sorry.

In defense of CCC, he did state that the word could have different meanings (of which "womanizer" was one of the words). I think you are being overly harsh and I think you should apologize.

It wasn't the translation of "mujeriego" that was in question, rather the phrase "Solo por ser amable", which means what she said (I would probably translate it as "Just for being kind" but hers is equally valid), and not "They're just being kind" (when)...

Not to speak for cccmedia who is certainly capable of speaking for himself, but I think this falls under "Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser"...

Andrellita wrote:

Hi,  I'm being misinterpreted by an over- sensitive gringo.  I love linguistics, and one of my favorite mis-translations is one I saw at the Basilica once that read, "Dear estimated guests..." from the word estimados, which translates esteemed.  No apologies needed for noticing mistakes.  I like to use my sense of humor.  Nothing wrong with that.  Try it.

I have seen so much bashing, not so much on this site, that I guess I am "gun-shy". More clarity in your posts might help. Sorry for my mis-interpretation.

At the risk of being corrected myself:

"Solo por ser amable me llaman mujeriego"  - Just for being kind (or nice) they call me a womanizer

"Solo por ser amable me llama mujeriego" - Just to be kind (or nice) he/she calls me a womanizer AND it could also be Just for being kind (or nice) he/she calls me a womanizer

"Solo por ser amables (ellos/ellas) me llaman mujeriego" - Just to be kind (or nice) they call me a womanizer

Glad to see so much interest in español on the forum.

I do agree that the "Just for being kind..." version is the accurate and best translation.

See y'all at the español for Gringos thread.

cccmedia in Quito

ccmedia, I'm guessing that Papa Francisco would not have approved of that priest's actions.

SusanF. wrote:

cccmedia, I'm guessing that Papa Francisco would not have approved of that priest's actions.

And that's putting it mildly.

                                                              .

WARNING, this is "Off Topic",

I recently read a priest was arrested for DUI in Hawaii.

GMC(SW) wrote:

WARNING, this is "Off Topic",

I recently read a priest was arrested for DUI in Hawaii.

Overuse of sacramental wines.  During prohibition the vineyards stayed in full production making such wines, with each church being allowed 4 gallons per member.  Needless to say many "churches" increased membership greatly in the 1920's.