Driving in Vietnam

Ottvantor wrote:

anthony500 wrote:

Hum let me  see .. None of the above apply. To Vietnam. No courtesy. So rule. Dangerous. No knowledge. Of safe driving stupid unbelievable the who country. From truck drivers. Police . government vehicle s. Any thing on the road is a accident looking for a place. To happen. .. ... Plus unsafe cars n motos Omg international de ving show red taillights not white. N. White front blue police red ambulance. Omg not here all stupid ignorant.

Who are you ?

You are not from the USA as your profile claims. Your choice and usage of English words and sentence structure is typical of a VN with poor English.

Exactly.
I was going to ask for a translation,but wasn't interested enough in the post.
All posts(3) are the same. Likely they're just a person with internet connection.There are 3 billion of them.

Well - I have been driving in a lot of countries around the world and I find traffic in Vietnam extremly challenging. The Vietnamese seems to have a death-wish, but on the other hand they get things done and it is rare to get completly stucked in traffic. I live in Hanoi and drive a bike, a scooter and a car. What does it for me is to, kind of, de-focus on traffic and drive very deffensive. If one gets too focused on one thing you miss the other 35 bikes heading your way .......... ;-)

What provokes me the most is the taxidrivers - they are arrogant assholes

Jens

Foreigners often complain about the traffic here and the "idiot drivers" who don't obey road rules (though the helmet law was adopted straight away with useless helmets by just about everyone, probably to avoid the police coffee money). I'm sort of glad they don't obey them, because given the amount of traffic on clogged roads, rules would not work anyway. I'd much rather they go with -- and observe -- the flow, which most of them seem to do. God help this country when it moves into the car phase of its development. It would come to a standstill.

I've ridden motorcycles and cars in over 60 countries and I find the conditions here quite civilised despite the chaos.
Most people move at a sedate pace (sometimes too sedate, but they'll arrive where they want to be), and if you try to merge, or turn, or cross the road, they won't let you do so but it's OK if you insist carefully -- they'll simply swerve around you, no aggro. In the West, they might let you in but they'll get terribly annoyed if you don't thank them or if you do anything unexpected.

I think it works here.

Holy CRAP!!  Here I thought about buying a used motorcycle and drive my way around HCMC.  No problem, I thought.... what HORROR to read what everyone had posted !!

I guess MOST of them (the Vietnamese) "bought" their driver license on the BLACK MARKET. 

OMG.....NOT looking forward to living in HCMC....and ride a motorcycle thru the streets.... at all...

Been pulled over 6 times in the last 4 days very random of course, I actually know the officer on first name basis since im paying for his swimming pool. Totally over it, and those where times when I was not driving, I talk up to the officer and he walks away from me, he knows me, my girl gets worked up and I see them, they want to slap her, and you can see they are ready to knife.
They give you attitude about where your from and you answer back wiith questions and they look at the ground.
Also don't bother with carrying a license or papers they will ask for it and make you pay to get them back. Don't pay more then 100K.

Other wise with driving in vietnam I don't find it hard, stick to the right and you will be fine!

I was raised and learned to drive in the U.S. We follow the rules of the road: right of way, traffic lights and DEFENSIVE driving! It is a courteous affair! We don't appreciate people seeking that one-second advance for position as, usually, it means nothing!

I am a bit on the disabled side: extreme vertigo displasia. I drive a custom-built 3-wheeled motorbike here in Ha Noi: two wheels in the front! There are no regulations for a three-wheeler, so a license is not required! However, I drive defensively ALL of the time! People run red lights, wend their way through traffic dangerously and seek to be "ahead" as much as possible. I do not see this as a positive thing! I see it as, basically, aggressive and dangerous driving! Sometimes, these same drivers take no account of my two wheels in the front and actually hit my wheel on the left or even right! There is no room for the faint-of-heart in Ha Noi! It pisses me off when they usually run red lights! I STOP at red lights and hear, all too often, the squeal of brakes behind me! Don't they pay ANY attention to the rules of the road on their own? When there are police at intersections, they behave well, but only then to avoid a ticket or pay for play fine to the police! One thing that I must say, and this may seem counterintuitive, is that I feel safer driving my motorbike than walking!

Ottvantor wrote:

anthony500 wrote:

Hum let me  see .. None of the above apply. To Vietnam. No courtesy. So rule. Dangerous. No knowledge. Of safe driving stupid unbelievable the who country. From truck drivers. Police . government vehicle s. Any thing on the road is a accident looking for a place. To happen. .. ... Plus unsafe cars n motos Omg international de ving show red taillights not white. N. White front blue police red ambulance. Omg not here all stupid ignorant.

Who are you ?

You are not from the USA as your profile claims. Your choice and usage of English words and sentence structure is typical of a VN with poor English.

I need a Tylenol reading his post.

thuy4tien wrote:

Holy CRAP!!  Here I thought about buying a used motorcycle and drive my way around HCMC.  No problem, I thought.... what HORROR to read what everyone had posted !!

I guess MOST of them (the Vietnamese) "bought" their driver license on the BLACK MARKET. 

OMG.....NOT looking forward to living in HCMC....and ride a motorcycle thru the streets.... at all...

YOLO...I don't think it's that bad. Just stay away from the big rigs and you'll be fine.

Anyse1 wrote:

I was raised and learned to drive in the U.S. We follow the rules of the road: right of way, traffic lights and DEFENSIVE driving! It is a courteous affair! We don't appreciate people seeking that one-second advance for position as, usually, it means nothing!

I am a bit on the disabled side: extreme vertigo displasia. I drive a custom-built 3-wheeled motorbike here in Ha Noi: two wheels in the front! There are no regulations for a three-wheeler, so a license is not required! However, I drive defensively ALL of the time! People run red lights, wend their way through traffic dangerously and seek to be "ahead" as much as possible. I do not see this as a positive thing! I see it as, basically, aggressive and dangerous driving! Sometimes, these same drivers take no account of my two wheels in the front and actually hit my wheel on the left or even right! There is no room for the faint-of-heart in Ha Noi! It pisses me off when they usually run red lights! I STOP at red lights and hear, all too often, the squeal of brakes behind me! Don't they pay ANY attention to the rules of the road on their own? When there are police at intersections, they behave well, but only then to avoid a ticket or pay for play fine to the police! One thing that I must say, and this may seem counterintuitive, is that I feel safer driving my motorbike than walking!

You are " supposed " to have an A3 licence for a 3 wheeler.

Do people text and drive, ride, or bike in VN?

Cloud9 wrote:

Do people text and drive, ride, or bike in VN?

Too bloody often, best to stay in front of them. Some of them even stop in the middle of a busy 2 lane bridge to answer their phones where I live.

Cloud9 wrote:

Do people text and drive, ride, or bike in VN?

In Dalat they do. It is quite common.

Ok so maybe I was out of date not having been back in Saigon for few years, but now I have been back for two days and spent most of my waking hours either walking alongside (or inside of) the small and large roads and riding about in taxis and motor bikes. What I have seen is somewhat different than some descriptions here:

Yes its true that no one follows a set of written traffic rules but the drivers (of Busses, Trucks, cars, Motorbikes and bikes) practice an amazing amount of both patience and awareness. Do  they do stupid things (by Western Standards)? OMG yes, but at the same time when the little gal on her Honda decides to turn right from the left lane alongside the left side a taxi, some pretty cool things (IMO) happen:
The taxi taps his horn and brakes at the same time and moves slightly to the right as do the motor bikes and cars on his right side with the result that there is a ballet of sorts where people do whatever is necessary to avoid those near them, and the worst that (usually) happens is that the little gal on her Honda makes her crazy right turn to the chorus of several horns, blissfully unaware that she may have done something wrong.

Would something like this work in _________(insert the name of your favorite Western city)?     No of course not there would be all sorts of damage to the people and vehicles involved followed by road age and lawsuits, but consider this for one moment -    if we foreigners  could learn to drive with the same patience and awareness of our Vietnamese hosts our heart rates would probably go down and our longevity increase.

As Rudyard Kipling said:

"OH, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet"

If you want to make changing the way people drive here your lifes project, then good on you - I can recommend a good psychiatrist.

Another thing that I noticed ( three times in the course of twenty minutes) is an old man or woman getting off the back of a motorbike and several bystanders rush over and help them onto the sidewalk. Nice!

Old Saigon Hand wrote:

Ok so maybe I was out of date not having been back in Saigon for few years, but now I have been back for two days and spent most of my waking hours either walking alongside (or inside of) the small and large roads and riding about in taxis and motor bikes. What I have seen is somewhat different than some descriptions here:

Yes its true that no one follows a set of written traffic rules but the drivers (of Busses, Trucks, cars, Motorbikes and bikes) practice an amazing amount of both patience and awareness. Do  they do stupid things (by Western Standards)? OMG yes, but at the same time when the little gal on her Honda decides to turn right from the left lane alongside the left side a taxi, some pretty cool things (IMO) happen:
The taxi taps his horn and brakes at the same time and moves slightly to the right as do the motor bikes and cars on his right side with the result that there is a ballet of sorts where people do whatever is necessary to avoid those near them, and the worst that (usually) happens is that the little gal on her Honda makes her crazy right turn to the chorus of several horns, blissfully unaware that she may have done something wrong.

Would something like this work in _________(insert the name of your favorite Western city)?     No of course not there would be all sorts of damage to the people and vehicles involved followed by road age and lawsuits, but consider this for one moment -    if we foreigners  could learn to drive with the same patience and awareness of our Vietnamese hosts our heart rates would probably go down and our longevity increase.

As Rudyard Kipling said:

"OH, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet"

If you want to make changing the way people drive here, then good on you - I can recommend a good psychiatrist.

Another thing that I noticed ( three times in the course of twenty minutes) is an old man or woman getting off the back of a motorbike and several bystanders rush over and help them onto the sidewalk. Nice!

Lets just say that Lil gal on the Honda was lucky this time, MANY times I've seen people like her end up splattered on the road, trying to do the same thing, but in smaller cities, there are a few less bikes, so the traffic " flows " a lot faster , making it practically unavoidable to miss connecting with someone, and with only 2 lanes, there is no where to go.
  I don't want to see all things change with VN driving, ( I enjoy seat of the pants riding, it should help with my low blood pressure? ), but it would be nice for them to pick up just a couple of " Western " rules, the main one, ( as I see especially around Tet ), is portrayed by the lines drawn on the roads, around the silhouettes of the 2/3 colliding m/bikes, and their riders, but you can tell where they were, just by the bloodstains still on the road a week later , the opposing arrows also drawn on the road are the indicator, some idiot on the wrong side of the road, probably pissed, probably at night, and probably with no lights, the biggest killer combination on VN roads.,

The driving in Vietnam is a raw anarchy of the worst kind. There is no courtesy. There are no rules. It's getting worse by the day. There are no words to describe it. Is this a sublimation for the Vietnamese constrained mind ? Or is it a mirror ?
There will come a point where this traffic situation will no longer be possible. It is about time the education will do something about it. Government, where are you ?

Old Saigon Hand wrote:

As Rudyard Kipling said:

"OH, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet"

If you want to make changing the way people drive here your lifes project, then good on you - I can recommend a good psychiatrist.
!

Spot on. As chaotic as the city is, things work and people get from A to B. You can't just simply apply western rules in a dense population city like HCMC. Its already bad as it is during peak hour, applying strict rules isn't going to fix anything instead make matters worst. I think the best of urban planners will have a hard time dealing with HCMC. We have rules in Sydney yet there's still problems with traffic, go figure.

If one were to go to Australia and try changing things to suit ones own perspectives including driving habits, you'll get the response: "if you don't like it, go back to where you came from!"

@ Peter - There are rules that aren't written in any book. The traffic flows with a wonderful fluidity and yet you only see anarchy. Has anybody seen a stop sign? I haven't in 8 years and although there are accidents, nothing like the carnage per unit volume in America. In the beginning I drove in absolute terror and then it clicked and I now drive without hesitation. Outside of the odd nutbar, or the insanity of the oblivious types the traffic scheme here is possibly the best in the world.

HCM n Hanoi are the r the worse places to drive but if u r careful. Drive slow don't hurry n drive same as a game when ubout if bullets defensibly. You might be OK .never hurry..u get hurt.for sure

i don't know how many of you will find a way to excuse [4 or more wheel] drivers who force motorcycles off the road. This happens frequently on the highways. I travel 160 km each way to/from Ha Noi and there are some bad drivers around. I like the anarchy but not people who bully me with their vehicles.

I am from Singapore and seriously, the Vn drivers do not abide to traffic laws. I was in Vung Tau a year ago, my Vn driver was showing me around at that time. Whilst driving along the front beach, on the left hand side of the road (where there was a road divider on the left side) a motor cyclist was on the same side BUT wrong direction. He was coming AT us. My driver was stunned. So he swerved to the right to avoid that moron. He jammed his brakes thereafter as there was a vehicle on the right.
BANG! A taxi behind rammed right into our SUV. Our car was fine but the taxi wasn't. Taxi driver cursing us of braking suddenly. I said he should keep a car length away, not tailgate. Anyway...we paid 500000VND to get him off our back.
This is Vietnam.

Tips for driving in Vietnam?

Step 1: Forget "right of way" as it doesn't exist. It's a different concept entirely. When I say forget, I mean wipe it out of your expectations....

Step 2: Adopt "right of position". You are only responsible for what's in front of you. If you get there first, you are in the "right". If you are driving straight and see a driver turning in front of you, you do not have the "right of way", only the "right of position". If dude gets there first, well, he beat you to it and you have to avoid him.

Step 3: You can now drive without road rage......

Erickan wrote:

I am from Singapore and seriously, the Vn drivers do not abide to traffic laws. I was in Vung Tau a year ago, my Vn driver was showing me around at that time. Whilst driving along the front beach, on the left hand side of the road (where there was a road divider on the left side) a motor cyclist was on the same side BUT wrong direction. He was coming AT us. My driver was stunned. So he swerved to the right to avoid that moron. He jammed his brakes thereafter as there was a vehicle on the right.
BANG! A taxi behind rammed right into our SUV. Our car was fine but the taxi wasn't. Taxi driver cursing us of braking suddenly. I said he should keep a car length away, not tailgate. Anyway...we paid 500000VND to get him off our back.
This is Vietnam.

Was your driver a VN? It's pretty hard to stun a VN driver of a car.

Coolering wrote:

Tips for driving in Vietnam?

Step 1: Forget "right of way" as it doesn't exist. It's a different concept entirely. When I say forget, I mean wipe it out of your expectations....

Step 2: Adopt "right of position". You are only responsible for what's in front of you. If you get there first, you are in the "right". If you are driving straight and see a driver turning in front of you, you do not have the "right of way", only the "right of position". If dude gets there first, well, he beat you to it and you have to avoid him.

Step 3: You can now drive without road rage......

Yes, well said, but I also worry about traffic behind me, they have a habit of zooming passed and doing an unindicated turn, practically cutting you off, so technically they weren't really in front of you, ( had this happen on numerous occasions, the most memorable one was with a bus, while i was doing 70 kph, he run me off the road as he pulled in to pick up some passengers, I only just managed to stop in time, I nearly picked up HIS passengers ), there was a 20 foot drop down a bank into some nasty looking deep water, I wasn't looking forward to that.

My old man was a grumpy bastard but when I started driving at 16 it was in big military vehicles under military instruction. At 17 I was on the road with the usual teenage bravado. Many years later his two tips still ring in my ears:

- you may be right, but what's the point in being "dead right"
- you may think you are a good driver but you are only as good as the driver you meet

Both of these are very applicable to VN.

Cheers and safe driving.

BTW:
Her in D2 we have an increase in pedestrians strolling across 10 lanes of highway with the usual hand flicking to get traffic to let them cross......now that's really really stupid and dangerous. I nearly hit one a few days ago and my taxi today have to swerve to avoid a teenager carrying an infant who didn't even look at oncoming traffic on the 4 lane car/truck section.

When I first came to Saigon 50 years ago it took me a while to understand how to drive here, but I finally boiled it down to:
You must avoid anything or anyone in front of or to the side of you. No matter what they do you must watch carefully and avoid all.

Everyone else has to avoid you.

These rules seem to still work but newcomers to the country will need awhile to learn how to drive this way.

Hum well that's pretty close but I never saw fight to anything.. Just rudeness. N horrible driving habits n no skill

-"  you may think you are a good driver but you are only as good as the driver you meet "
That reminds me of all those over cautious drivers, who have driven for many years, and NEVER had an accident, but were probably responsible for causing many though!!!

bluenz wrote:

-"  you may think you are a good driver but you are only as good as the driver you meet "
That reminds me of all those over cautious drivers, who have driven for many years, and NEVER had an accident, but were probably responsible for causing many though!!!

We knew them as 'hat drivers'. Usually old folks.If they were indicating to go left,that meant they were turning left.
About 500 metres up the road!

jimbream wrote:

bluenz wrote:

-"  you may think you are a good driver but you are only as good as the driver you meet "
That reminds me of all those over cautious drivers, who have driven for many years, and NEVER had an accident, but were probably responsible for causing many though!!!

We knew them as 'hat drivers'. Usually old folks.If they were indicating to go left,that meant they were turning left.
About 500 metres up the road!

Yeah, those are the ones, and the little old ladies going lawn bowling , all dressed in their whites, usually have trouble seeing over the steering wheel, ( like many VN's???? ).

Yes he is a Vn chap. Its an old chap....i guess that's why his reaction was kinda slow...

An A3 license? What is that? I got it from the horse's mouth at the Ministry of Transportation! So, where did you read this in the law?

wrote:

... To any newcomers to Vietnam who wish to reduce the risk of having an accident, one should learn the philosophy of driving here. Do you know that half of all expats who must go home for medical treatment, do so for injuries sustained in a motorcycle accident. You aren't in Kansas anymore.

Spot on! Once you understand about not being in Kansas anymore then perhaps we foreigner guests in Vietnam should then focus on the idea that its not up to us to change the way things are done here. Instead perhaps we should spend some time learning how to drive Saigon Style, which means getting rid of all our preconceived ideas and Learning from the local folks. Its not going to be easy, but then there no one said it was going to be easy, nor does our visas give us special privileges, Imagine a Vietnamese visitor to Topeka writing letters to the editor demanding that folks there should start driving Vietnamese style.
If you don't have the temperment and skills to drive here taxis are cheap and busses cheaper still. 

I am glad that I am flexible! This is one thing that has been a challenge for me. There are days when I am NOT at all happy driving here because the traffic is so heavy and, sometimes, getting to the other direction in the road to get where you are going is rather scary! Hell, I usually let a bicyclist guide me across copying his or her moves! But, hell, when I am riding around, most of the time now I am getting more comfortable and swear like a sailor at some of the stupidity of drivers as I did in the U.S. I remember when I started and how my knuckles would literally turn white as I held on to the handlebars of my motorbike. I thought that I would never stop doing this for about 2 months. How did I get over it? I went on trips out of town (50km or so) and just enjoying the scenery and going to various historical sites. That really helped me a lot! Good luck to all of you. You CAN adapt!

Old Saigon Hand wrote:

wrote:

... To any newcomers to Vietnam who wish to reduce the risk of having an accident, one should learn the philosophy of driving here. Do you know that half of all expats who must go home for medical treatment, do so for injuries sustained in a motorcycle accident. You aren't in Kansas anymore.

Spot on! Once you understand about not being in Kansas anymore then perhaps we foreigner guests in Vietnam should then focus on the idea that its not up to us to change the way things are done here. Instead perhaps we should spend some time learning how to drive Saigon Style, which means getting rid of all our preconceived ideas and Learning from the local folks. Its not going to be easy, but then there no one said it was going to be easy, nor does our visas give us special privileges, Imagine a Vietnamese visitor to Topeka writing letters to the editor demanding that folks there should start driving Vietnamese style.
If you don't have the temperment and skills to drive here taxis are cheap and busses cheaper still. 

I partially agree - we are guests for sure but we bring knowledge and wisdom on how it can be done safely that benefits Vietnam and the Vietnamese people. A big impediment to foreign direct investment by large corporations is infrastructure, transportation as well as health and safety practices. Vietnam has accepted and used over usd 90 billion in overseas aid over the past 20 years, some of the money was foolishly wasted by government on failed projects. As part of ASEAN, APEC, WHO, UN and other regional and global bodies, the Vietnamese government has undertaken certain agreements towards economic and social advancement including education as well as health and safety. Foreign direct investment is pouring in for infrastructure projects to build roads, light rail, bridges etc. and I know (guilt) money is coming from the French for HCMC traffic improvement. So lets' not be too passive on the topic.

Ottvantor wrote:

Old Saigon Hand wrote:

wrote:

... To any newcomers to Vietnam who wish to reduce the risk of having an accident, one should learn the philosophy of driving here. Do you know that half of all expats who must go home for medical treatment, do so for injuries sustained in a motorcycle accident. You aren't in Kansas anymore.

Spot on! Once you understand about not being in Kansas anymore then perhaps we foreigner guests in Vietnam should then focus on the idea that its not up to us to change the way things are done here. Instead perhaps we should spend some time learning how to drive Saigon Style, which means getting rid of all our preconceived ideas and Learning from the local folks. Its not going to be easy, but then there no one said it was going to be easy, nor does our visas give us special privileges, Imagine a Vietnamese visitor to Topeka writing letters to the editor demanding that folks there should start driving Vietnamese style.
If you don't have the temperment and skills to drive here taxis are cheap and busses cheaper still. 

I partially agree - we are guests for sure but we bring knowledge and wisdom on how it can be done safely that benefits Vietnam and the Vietnamese people. A big impediment to foreign direct investment by large corporations is infrastructure, transportation as well as health and safety practices. Vietnam has accepted and used over usd 90 billion in overseas aid over the past 20 years, some of the money was foolishly wasted by government on failed projects. As part of ASEAN, APEC, WHO, UN and other regional and global bodies, the Vietnamese government has undertaken certain agreements towards economic and social advancement including education as well as health and safety. Foreign direct investment is pouring in for infrastructure projects to build roads, light rail, bridges etc. and I know (guilt) money is coming from the French for HCMC traffic improvement. So lets' not be too passive on the topic.

Spot on, also " guilt " money from the US/Aus and even NZ, ( but they call it " foreign aid " ).

A couple of years ago while visiting Canada I met a woman who was a consultant who had been hired by Vietnam to do an analysis on traffic in the area just south of HCMC where a new bridge was being built. I suggested a lot of problems could be solved if they would ban private cars and did she put that in her report. "What!" she exclaimed, "No I recommended that they reduce the number of motorbikes."  Contrary to Ottvantor's statement, I don't think we have knowledge and wisdom on how it can be done safely that benefits Vietnam and the Vietnamese people. The traffic condition here with the mix of types is unique in the world. The Vietnamese aren't poor uneducated farmers and condescending conversation is understandable but not helpful. The traffic chaos in Vancouver and every other North American city only demonstrates the West's traffic control impotence. In the West we are over regulated to the point of insanity and maybe, just maybe we could learn something from the Vietnamese.

Here are just a few observations.

I have been driving / riding in Vietnam for a number of years.  I do not find it a relaxing experience because of the motorists, but I find traveling around Vietnam by road to be very interesting.  And the countryside can be quite beautiful.
    One of the biggest problems that have come across is that the vast majority of Vietnamese motorists will never yield, even if it is in their best interest to do so.  I have witnessed many incidents, accidents and absurd traffic jams caused by this.
    Drink driving is also a pretty big problem in Vietnam.  More needs to be done to highlight the dangers and to educate the male motorists in Vietnam.  Beers and rice wine seems to be consumed at every occasion and after the event people get straight onto their motorbikes and wobble home.
    Cars and commercial vehicles sometimes look a little shabby, but they are often in good working order because of the yearly / twice yearly MOT tests.  This test is on a level with most western countries.  Motorbikes are not subject to any kind of MOT check and there are many that are not roadworthy.
    I often find the police in Vietnam to be quite fair and even helpful.  Most of the times I have been stopped I would consider these to be righteous stops and a case of “fair cop governor” because I had made an error.  It is worth making sure you understand the differences in the road laws in Vietnam from your home country before getting on the road.  I have also had bad experiences where I have been “fined” unfairly and arguing only makes the fine bigger.

I do believe wrote:

A couple of years ago while visiting Canada I met a woman who was a consultant who had been hired by Vietnam to do an analysis on traffic in the area just south of HCMC where a new bridge was being built. I suggested a lot of problems could be solved if they would ban private cars and did she put that in her report. "What!" she exclaimed, "No I recommended that they reduce the number of motorbikes."  Contrary to Ottvantor's statement, I don't think we have knowledge and wisdom on how it can be done safely that benefits Vietnam and the Vietnamese people. The traffic condition here with the mix of types is unique in the world. The Vietnamese aren't poor uneducated farmers and condescending conversation is understandable but not helpful. The traffic chaos in Vancouver and every other North American city only demonstrates the West's traffic control impotence. In the West we are over regulated to the point of insanity and maybe, just maybe we could learn something from the Vietnamese.

Your conversation with 1 person in Canada is a generalization. Let me jog your memory; Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and Taiwan were all in the same place as Vietnam and have moved forward in a way that's unique to their own cultural dynamics, infrastructure, capacity etc. Vietnam does not appear to be moving forward in any competent form to better manage it's roads and road safety record. 

As Vietnam is part of ASEAN, APEC, WHO, UN and a whole bunch of other international organizations, there are economic and social expectations as well as political commitments made at those tables (I was an advisor to both ASEAN and APEC up to recently) that Vietnam has committed to. Among those are infrastructure developments to ease trade including building roads, rail, ports and improving airports. Another is streamlining the movement of goods from the ports to point of distribution and consumption. Another is education and Vietnam has not fulfilled its commitments to APEC and no data is available at APEC on VN education.....Productivity is a vital factor for developing economies and having trucks with perishable goods take 7 hours to drive 100km and in an unrefrigerated vehicle is not good or healthy.

Vietnam has a long way to go and the way forward and lessons learned from traffic management, driver education and enforcement from all of the above economies should be widely available. Without the political will nothing can happen, without pressure from the international organizations and corporations (and expats) there will be no push to take action and get results.

In addition to my earlier comments about regional action, here is a link to the November 2011 report from APEC's Transportation Workgroup. The report is called  "A Review of Potential Countermeasures for Motorcycle and Scooter Safety across APEC" and can be downloaded @ http://publications.apec.org/publicatio … ub_id=1192

The report is structured as follows:

    Executive summary
1. Introduction
2. A framework for safety initiatives
3. Road user measures to prevent crashes
4. Rider measures to reduce injury severity
5. Vehicle measures to prevent crashes
6. Vehicle measures to reduce injury severity
7. Road improvements to prevent crashes
8. Road improvements to reduce injury severity
9. Measures to improve treatment of injuries
10. Selected rider and driver measures to prevent crashes

Report Description
This report assesses the potential road safety measures that can be used to address these issues and selects measures that could feasibly and effectively be implemented across the Asia Pacific Economic Communities (APEC). The scope of the report is confined to on-road motorcycle riding. In this report, motorcycle safety measures are classified according to their role: (1) preventing crashes, (2) reducing the severity of injury in the event of a crash or (3) improving treatment of injured persons.

Full title: A Review of Potential Countermeasures for Motorcycle and Scooter Safety across APEC for Project: Compendium of Best Practices on Motorcycle and Scooter Safety