Problems for expats buying a house and lot

compulsory heirs under the law, includes the legal spouse as well as the legitimate child(ren). they inherit together mutually (not exclusive) the secured portion and we call it legitimes. they can inherit the free portion in case its not yet given to anyone else

professor cebu wrote:

compulsory heirs under the law, includes the legal spouse as well as the legitimate child(ren). they inherit together mutually (not exclusive) the secured portion and we call it legitimes. they can inherit the free portion in case its not yet given to anyone else

They (Spouse, Children, Parents) split the property in certain shares ?

The Spouse will not get the entire property exclusively (To the detriment of the deceased's children) ?

parents are excluded by the spouse and legitimate child(ren)... spouse and child(ren) get their shares in accordance with the fractions provided by law. spouse will get entire property should there be no legitimate children left and the deceased did provide for any legacy or donation mortis causa to strangers.... but if the legitimate child(ren) is/are survived by their child(ren) of their own whether the legitimate or illegitimate, the latter may inherent by right of representation.

to avoid complications and to take care of your property, estate planning is very crucial.... before you die, it is advisable that you draft your will and testament... also we have to take considerations on possible tax implications on estate tax vis-a-vis donors tax.

ABCDiamond wrote:

professor cebu wrote:

compulsory heirs under the law, includes the legal spouse as well as the legitimate child(ren). they inherit together mutually (not exclusive) the secured portion and we call it legitimes. they can inherit the free portion in case its not yet given to anyone else

They (Spouse, Children, Parents) split the property in certain shares ?

The Spouse will not get the entire property exclusively (To the detriment of the deceased's children) ?

professor cebu wrote:

estate planning is very crucial....

I agree 100%

Bottom line: the wife or nearest blood relative  can pull the land from underneath you any time they want. The day you buy the land and home she can deny you access and the Philippine court will NOT help you. You are screwed! Buy a condo even though they are over priced in the Philippines like everything else, you are safe. Do not put anything in a Filipinos name. You have been warned!

P.S. you can own the house but she owns  the property and can deny you access by not allowing you to place one foot on it and you can't get to the front door

Sad to say but this does not happen a lot!

Unless you sign a lease to guarantee residency.

In a lease contract you need to pay rent so the foreigner who paid for the cost of building a house needs also to prove that he pays rent or else he will be ejected; what are the elements to become a valid lease contact a question to ask when entering in a long lease; this has to be annotated in the TCT or OCT; just for FYI

philipperv wrote:

Unless you sign a lease to guarantee residency.

And be prepared to go to court to enforce your rights should you be refused entry.

It can be a world of nightmares, for some. Hopefully only a few though..

Like in any investment and even of the heart there are a lot of risk!

ABCDiamond wrote:

WintergolfinPI wrote:

Six million for a Condo??? Six million for a 190 sqm (2035 sq ft) brand new Aussie style Bungalow where I live. Big private roads, tight 24/7 security, large open green spaces, no Jeepney's, no  Tricycles, no noise, no pollution, just birds singing in my trees. You choose. I've made my choice. Silang, Cavite.

If I end up staying in the Philippines, I will come down to Cavite to look around
I'm only renting the condo for now while I work things out.

Also in Silang, no fault lines at my place, no flooding, 10 minutes to Tagaytay, dependable utilities, hospitals, restaurants, shopping, 45 plus minutes to the beach. Cool breezes year round, off the beaten path but about 5 minutes to Aguinaldo highway. No noise, running stream, peace, quiet and birds singing..
I purchased the land in my wife's name, nine years my junior, and built a house with my name and hers on the deed and a lease for the land in case she is gone before me.
From some of the posts it seems that at times caution and concern for getting burned verges on paranoia. If you're that scared of getting burned and don't trust your spouse, you shouldn't have married her in the first place and don't  buy and build. Not a very tough decision.
If I go before my wife the land and the home are hers as it should be.

TeeJay4103 wrote:

From some of the posts it seems that at times caution and concern for getting burned verges on paranoia. If you're that scared of getting burned and don't trust your spouse, you shouldn't have married her in the first place and don't  buy and build. Not a very tough decision.
If I go before my wife the land and the home are hers as it should be.

That's OK when you have no children yourself.

However, if your only asset is the property, and if it is a big property, then you may wish to also provide for your own children as well as your new spouse, her children and her family.

With something of less than 1M (or xM depending on your total asset worth), then it may not be a massive figure, to be overly worried about.

I am not sure it is about trusting your spouse as such. Once we go, her family will often make moves to secure their new asset, no matter what your spouse wishes, and at that point has to choose between what you wanted and what her family (the only ones left in her life) are wanting.

I have 6 Norwegian friends married to filipinas and all have the same problem including me that filipinas married us due to strong economical reasons. Generally speaking, the real family of a Filipina is her own family from Philippines. Because it is a part of their culture. After marrying her most of us have to function like a Santa who will give gifts to her and all her Family members /relatives and friends, or we must turn ourselves to a walking bank. So warn all your friends not to marry any Filipina at first place and most important never to invest in any property in Philippines. Even if you have her irrevocable SPA to sell the property it is not all that easy to sell it in Philippines as there may not be much demand, of course depending on where you have the property, By the time you get any buyer, she can remarry and then her earlier SPA will not be sufficient because then her New husband must also give you his SPA to sell the property that you bought it from your own money. And he can always say "NO" on request from your ex-wife to make problems for you. Believe me that you will create many more enemies by investing in lots and other properties in Philippines. So warning is given. I can't say better than this.

Some people put a question about what was the problem giving your property to a young filipina who gave you good bed time and specially when you were few years away from your grave. There can be some argument in that, but it is normal to give your property away to somebody else in your own Family (your earlier children, your new spouse) or other institutions rather than giving it to a cheater who had been cheating you in many ways and wanted to snatch it from you together with her relatives and the Philippines system. I think there are more people here coming to the same conclusion like me that never buy any property in Philippines, so think thorougly before indulging in buying any property in Philippines.

MrNorway wrote:

I have 6 Norwegian friends married to filipinas and all have the same problem including me that filipinas married us due to strong economical reasons. Generally speaking, the real family of a Filipina is her own family from Philippines. Because it is a part of their culture. After marrying her most of us have to function like a Santa who will give gifts to her and all her Family members /relatives and friends, or we must turn ourselves to a walking bank. So warn all your friends not to marry any Filipina at first place and most important never to invest in any property in Philippines. Even if you have her irrevocable SPA to sell the property it is not all that easy to sell it in Philippines as there may not be much demand, of course depending on where you have the property, By the time you get any buyer, she can remarry and then her earlier SPA will not be sufficient because then her New husband must also give you his SPA to sell the property that you bought it from your own money. And he can always say "NO" on request from your ex-wife to make problems for you. Believe me that you will create many more enemies by investing in lots and other properties in Philippines. So warning is given. I can't say better than this.

Some people put a question about what was the problem giving your property to a young filipina who gave you good bed time and specially when you were few years away from your grave. There can be some argument in that, but it is normal to give your property away to somebody else in your own Family (your earlier children, your new spouse) or other institutions rather than giving it to a cheater who had been cheating you in many ways and wanted to snatch it from you together with her relatives and the Philippines system. I think there are more people here coming to the same conclusion like me that never buy any property in Philippines, so think thorougly before indulging in buying any property in Philippines.

I think the first paragraph pretty much covers it all. It just baffles me how/why a foreigner can't see that the laws are designed to promote this type of outcome or promote these types of problems. Furthermore, in the Philippines, marriage is referred to as a "contract to marry" -- it doesn't get any more clear than that. Marriage is a contract. Again, how much more clear can it get? Thus, it would seem to make sense to insist on a pre-marriage (pre-maritial) contract to protect your rights (man's rights) before entering into a marriage contract. If she doesn't consent you don't get married. It's that simple. Why today in 2015 men are still falling for "I love you" and "bedtime activity" as some indicator that she is wife material is simply beyond me. As these things continue to happen, many conversations are raised (around the globe) that women are smarter than men...and you know it's difficult to argue otherwise when simple steps can be taken to avoid financial problems/ruin but still men do little to nothing to protect their rights but instead rely on trust. To each his own i guess.

Discussion No 94 is making generalization that all Filipinas intended to make money out of there foreign partners; there are Filipinas who are well educated, financially independent, and sometimes even support their foreign partners financially; all over the world you will see Filipina doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, managers etc. who have foreign partners and are happy; foreigners blindly go to a relationship with a Filipina without really knowing her, her belief about family, raising children; the extended family; also foreigners who comes here in the Philippines most of the time already had families of their own in their country and had already been divorced; I have situation such as a foreigner so in love with a Filipina whom he have not seen except on a chat; Then they will finally meet; the problem is the foreigner has already been brainwashed; hence in all of these mess foreigners and Filipinos who get burned in a relationship should accept they both have as an individual at fault and not blame all the females of this country;

i think it is fault of all people i mean foreigner that buy land for name of some other one that can be girlfriend, o wife o some else, it is clear that if you buy a land and then put name of someone else, it is yours until when every thing good between you and her o his, once you have any problem with her o his, that land isn't yours, this is in Philippines o some other country, you cann't tell me that happen just in philippines and just with a filippina, i saw same things happen in many altri country, i want just tell that foreigner that buy land and put name of someone else, wake up and non give your fault someone else. be clear with your girlfriend o future wife, and tell you will never buy a land o house with her name up, if she really come for love o have family, she still go on with you. but sure if your wife deserve give her a gift and buy a land for she. but be sure before about what are you doing and wake up.

"...be clear with your girlfriend o fuctre wife, and tell you will never buy a land o house with her name up, if she really come for love o have family, she still go on with you."

Ditto

ABCDiamond wrote:

TeeJay4103 wrote:

From some of the posts it seems that at times caution and concern for getting burned verges on paranoia. If you're that scared of getting burned and don't trust your spouse, you shouldn't have married her in the first place and don't  buy and build. Not a very tough decision.
If I go before my wife the land and the home are hers as it should be.

That's OK when you have no children yourself.

However, if your only asset is the property, and if it is a big property, then you may wish to also provide for your own children as well as your new spouse, her children and her family.

With something of less than 1M (or xM depending on your total asset worth), then it may not be a massive figure, to be overly worried about.

I am not sure it is about trusting your spouse as such. Once we go, her family will often make moves to secure their new asset, no matter what your spouse wishes, and at that point has to choose between what you wanted and what her family (the only ones left in her life) are wanting.

Any decision in life involves a little bit of trust, be it business or personal. In the case of your spouse and children, if you have questions regarding her ability to make the right decision, then lay it our for her. Once you are gone, it's out of your hands. If you leave only money, how much control do you have over that? Even if you make arrangements to have it handled through and attorney in whom you have placed an amount of trust to handle the money as per your wishes. It still does not guarantee the sum given will be used as you intend. If the "family" is out for blood, their not much of a family and if your wife is not strong willed enough to determine who she should or should not help, it's out of your hands. I get the impression you are in the states, if so, maybe it would be better to keep your wife and money there where you may have some more control over it and the family in the states or a few thousand miles away.
In my case and with my wife, we have made what arrangements can legally be made and trust in each others decisions to do what is right and prudent regarding family. We have offered money to her family and it is politely refused saying it's not needed. Seems more like a real family than one who wants to take all you have and then kick you to the curb. I trust you understand my views as I also understand yours.

dldeleaf wrote:

"...be clear with your girlfriend o fuctre wife, and tell you will never buy a land o house with her name up, if she really come for love o have family, she still go on with you."

Ditto

Totally agree.  BUT..  Sometimes you have to feel sorry for the girl who chooses you over her birth family.

That becomes a very difficult thing for her when told by her parents to go back to her last boyfriend who provided more financially for everyone. Even though she didn't have the same feeling for him as she has for the one that has less money and can't support the family...
Her brothers even had to go back to work, when the support stopped after she left her rich boyfriend, for one not as well off.

What does she choose? Her families financial wellbeing or her own happiness ?
How does she cope with those thoughts everyday?

yes you are right ABCDiamond, and that is what all cheater do for force you do what them want, sure if really family of girl need help, and we want help, we should help, but first need to understand what them need and then help them in right way. for example; if them need house, i can rent a house a let them live there, why i should buy? when girlfriend o wife ask no you should to buy, in this case i have to wake up and understand that it is just scam, o if my girlfriend ask a tablet for her father, in this case isn't it a need , so i have to think for that, but sure if need is for food sure it is better i help,

94

MrNorway wrote:

Generally speaking, the real family of a Filipina is her own family from Philippines. Because it is a part of their culture.

Cynthiavilla wrote:

Discussion No 94 is making generalization that all Filipinas intended to make money out of there foreign partners;

Their generalisation appears to be as they say "Generally speaking" that Filipinos tend to put their own family first.

A Filipino family that is financially OK is much less inclined to need financial help, but unfortunately the Philippines is a poor country. By consequence of this, there will be many poor families who find themselves in the position of now having a richer relative. And Filipino families by tradition help each other when needed.
There are of course Filipinas who are well educated, financially independent etc, but they are not in the majority.

TeeJay4103 wrote:

I trust you understand my views as I also understand yours.

Totality, Yes.
I've been in the fortunate (or unfortunate) position to have experienced the different types of relationships.

Including:
One, who decided to drop me to be with a richer man, who could help her family more. (He offered to put a property in her name).
One, who chose me over a richer man, to the anger of her family.

And my first one, that is just way too confusing to try to explain... But I never allowed that one to make me bitter to the entire Filipino race...

As a foreigner here you have to fight for your rights on any contract. If you are married the house cannot be sold without your consent as your name appears directly on the title. I took out a 50 year lease for P1/year as a backup in case of a future divorce or annulment. It is perfectly legal.

philipperv wrote:

I took out a 50 year lease for P1/year as a backup in case of a future divorce or annulment. It is perfectly legal.

If it went to court, what is the possibility of a Filipino judge determining the lease as illegal due to obvious manipulation regarding the low cost of just 1 peso per year.  ie: Not appearing to be a genuine contract.  A peppercorn lease may be legal in some countries, but in a country where nothing is sure, I would have reservations.

With due respect I disagree with discussion #102; again a generalization; just because a Filipina is poor and belonging to the majority she will already be judged as having only one intent in mind money from foreigners; the workforce here in the Philippines are dominated by FIlipinas;

Cynthiavilla wrote:

With due respect I disagree with discussion #102; again a generalization; just because a Filipina is poor and belonging to the majority she will already be judged as having only one intent in mind money from foreigners; the workforce here in the Philippines are dominated by FIlipinas;

Which generalisation of mine do you disagree with ?

A: "Generally speaking" that Filipinos tend to put their own family first.

B: A Filipino family that is financially OK is much less inclined to need financial help,

C; unfortunately the Philippines is a poor country.

D: By consequence of this, there will be many poor families who find themselves in the position of now having a richer relative.

E: Filipino families by tradition help each other when needed.

F: Filipinas who are well educated, financially independent etc, but they are not in the majority.

dldeleaf wrote:

I think the first paragraph pretty much covers it all. It just baffles me how/why a foreigner can't see that the laws are designed to promote this type of outcome or promote these types of problems.

The law was intended to protect Filipino citizens from exorbitant increases in the price of land. Imagine if foreigners, who are already viewed as walking ATMs, were able to buy land, developers would jack up prices such that locals would be prevented from buying land.

What should be changed in the law is for foreigners to be allowed to jointly own land with their Filipino spouse, i.e., both their names are in the deed and one cannot sell it without approval from the other, and within a reasonable limit with regards to the number and size of land they can purchase, such as 1 piece of 100 sqm, which I think would be enough to build on a comfy house for both of them.

If the Filipino spouse passes away before the foreigner spouse, the surviving spouse would inherit solely that particular land and buildings / improvements on it. Other properties bought under the deceased Filipino spouse's name would follow hereditary succession. If the foreigner husband is the sole heir, then he / she would be required to sell / dispose of the other properties within a reasonable amount of time, as he / she cannot own more than 100 sqm.

I think this would be fair for many, including locals. The Filipino spouse would be more inclined to keep a good relationship. The foreigner can give his / her spouse a gift of land if the spouse is deserving. The foreigner can still keep a roof over his head if the spouse passes away. And locals would still be protected from opportunistic developers and sellers.

Totally agree with you, with one exception (from a personal point of view). The size of land... 100 sqm of land seems so small for a house to me.  When I dropped from 800 sqm to 700 sqm land size, with my last Australian house I felt I was going down to something so small.(below average)..   But that is down to the comfort level that a person is used to in their own country

FilAmericanMom wrote:

and within a reasonable limit with regards to the number and size of land they can purchase, such as 1 piece of 100 sqm, which I think would be enough to build on a comfy house for both of them. .

New Australian houses built in 2012-13 had an average floor area of 241 square metres
However, for comparison, a UK house size is relatively small at  76 square metres.

ABCDiamond wrote:

94

MrNorway wrote:

Generally speaking, the real family of a Filipina is her own family from Philippines. Because it is a part of their culture.

Cynthiavilla wrote:

Discussion No 94 is making generalization that all Filipinas intended to make money out of there foreign partners;

Their generalisation appears to be as they say "Generally speaking" that Filipinos tend to put their own family first.

A Filipino family that is financially OK is much less inclined to need financial help, but unfortunately the Philippines is a poor country. By consequence of this, there will be many poor families who find themselves in the position of now having a richer relative. And Filipino families by tradition help each other when needed.
There are of course Filipinas who are well educated, financially independent etc, but they are not in the majority.

I do believe that you will become part of the Filipino once you show you self to be part of theirs.  Some times thing may go wrong for you and they will help you out with all they can.

pej1111 wrote:

I do believe that you will become part of the Filipino once you show you self to be part of theirs.  Some times thing may go wrong for you and they will help you out with all they can.

I agree with that too, although that would not be as common.

In 2012, Filipino families had an annual income of 235 thousand pesos, on average. (19,583 per month)
70% were under 19,083 per month
50% were under 12,750 per month
Only 10% were over 60,000 per month

That doesn't leave much spare for most of them, and when we think how much we spend, (Aus, UK and US as examples) as normal routine spending, there is a massive difference.

ABCDiamond wrote:

pej1111 wrote:

I do believe that you will become part of the Filipino once you show you self to be part of theirs.  Some times thing may go wrong for you and they will help you out with all they can.

I agree with that too, although that would not be as common.

In 2012, Filipino families had an annual income of 235 thousand pesos, on average. (19,583 per month)
70% were under 19,083 per month
50% were under 12,750 per month
Only 10% were over 60,000 per month

That doesn't leave much spare for most of them, and when we think how much we spend, (Aus, UK and US as examples) as normal routine spending, there is a massive difference.

True but if you are part of their family they will care for you as best they can.  You may find yourself in a Napa house sharing the floor with the rest of the family, but they will care for you as best they can.

In the end it is us to us to manage the money and the wife to care for us (men) in the kitchen and house and elsewhere.

You will never be a part of filipino Family as long as you are not as poor as most of them from the beginning. Come to the real world of filipinos.

You will never be a part of filipino Family as long as you are not as poor as most of them from the beginning. Come to the real world of filipinos.

MrNorway wrote:

I have 6 Norwegian friends married to filipinas and all have the same problem including me that filipinas married us due to strong economical reasons. Generally speaking, the real family of a Filipina is her own family from Philippines. Because it is a part of their culture. After marrying her most of us have to function like a Santa who will give gifts to her and all her Family members /relatives and friends, or we must turn ourselves to a walking bank. So warn all your friends not to marry any Filipina at first place and most important never to invest in any property in Philippines. .

There are many Filipino women who are well-educated, financially independent, coming from families who do not need her support. The thing is most of them are not looking for partners, whether locals or foreigners, who are as old as their parents or grandparents. They would want someone single and in the same age bracket and financial status, preferably someone who is good looking, has not been married before and no kids . . .  someone they can show off to their family and friends, without the slightest thought that she married the guy for money.

I think if you fit the mold, then you can find a Filipino woman who is not after your money, and would stick with you through thick and thin, someone who would choose you over her parents. If you don't fit the mold, you're more likely to end up with someone who's from a financially hard up family. Then doubts will linger in your mind ("Did she marry me for love?"), which is not healthy in a relationship.

So if you don't want to risk losing money on buying a piece of land you will never get to own, or becoming a cash cow for her family, just don't get into a relationship with such a Filipino woman. And then you will find that no one will want to get into a relationship with you.

If you are with someone right now you think you can trust, someone whom you think is the exception among poor families, someone who would not take advantage of you, then I wish you good luck, especially if you're planning on bringing your wife to your own country.

ABCDiamond wrote:

Totally agree with you, with one exception (from a personal point of view). The size of land... 100 sqm of land seems so small for a house to me.  When I dropped from 800 sqm to 700 sqm land size, with my last Australian house I felt I was going down to something so small.(below average)..   But that is down to the comfort level that a person is used to in their own country

100 sqm is too small for me also. But a bigger land area will jack up land prices. I think the land area limit is fair, if the purpose is to give the foreigner a residence which he / she could sell, and not be taken advantage off by the spouse and his / her family who could drive him out of the house and land he paid for.  100 sqm is also bigger than most condo units.

for a man knowing how any women thinks is a mistery.

I am not sure about a Filipina but in a lot of Asian countries the women marry for status. It doesn't matter if you are a foreigner or not, a lot do not see love the way a westerner sees it.  A lot of the cultures in Asia marry for status, that is love as we call it, is to marry up from the status the are in is what the see as all important.   I do understand that each country has different views on this.

Would enjoy get a Filipinas view on this.

FilAmericanMom wrote:

dldeleaf wrote:

I think the first paragraph pretty much covers it all. It just baffles me how/why a foreigner can't see that the laws are designed to promote this type of outcome or promote these types of problems.

The law was intended to protect Filipino citizens from exorbitant increases in the price of land. Imagine if foreigners, who are already viewed as walking ATMs, were able to buy land, developers would jack up prices such that locals would be prevented from buying land.

What should be changed in the law is for foreigners to be allowed to jointly own land with their Filipino spouse, i.e., both their names are in the deed and one cannot sell it without approval from the other, and within a reasonable limit with regards to the number and size of land they can purchase, such as 1 piece of 100 sqm, which I think would be enough to build on a comfy house for both of them.

If the Filipino spouse passes away before the foreigner spouse, the surviving spouse would inherit solely that particular land and buildings / improvements on it. Other properties bought under the deceased Filipino spouse's name would follow hereditary succession. If the foreigner husband is the sole heir, then he / she would be required to sell / dispose of the other properties within a reasonable amount of time, as he / she cannot own more than 100 sqm.

I think this would be fair for many, including locals. The Filipino spouse would be more inclined to keep a good relationship. The foreigner can give his / her spouse a gift of land if the spouse is deserving. The foreigner can still keep a roof over his head if the spouse passes away. And locals would still be protected from opportunistic developers and sellers.

Regarding FilAmericanMom's reply - I will give you credit for this. You did offer an objective comment which many of the posts here lack. Most of the post here have the halo effect which isn't constructive or helpful in any way. If this blog is to provide any value its through voicing problems and real solutions instead of "I feel like" emotional rants.

You can sign a lease for any amount and it is perfectly legal and binding. Check with a lawyer if you don't believe me.