What is expected of you upon marrying a Dominican National?

Trusted (looking at other men)....NO

Bob K

My sister always says, "if you have to ask, you already know". Hotel worker or not. Dominican or American/Canadian etc., if she is checking out other men, she's probably looking for a guy on the side or a new man. How does she treat you? How is your relationship? How do you treat her? You don't have to tell me or anyone else on here those answers, but think about it. Would you accept that behavior from a woman back home (wherever that may be)?   Blessings to you and I hope things work out.

Kat

@Janitrol

she just married you and looks at other men in your presence? Either she is playing games to make your jealous or worse, or she married you for the wrong reasons in first place. No one can tell what is the right answer. One thing is for sure, if you let her live in DR and and you go back living in US, I wouldn't bet in her being faithful forever.

j5,  it shouldn't be a matter of what 'she' wants, but what you want.   If you get p-whipped even before you're married, you're doomed.  Better yet tell you you want to be married the way most dominicans are, they just call the other partner the 'esposo/a'.   If she doesn't accept that, you're in trouble.

@janitrol    sorry to say but you are in trouble.   Man up.  Take the lead, set the rules. She does not want to play properly, NEXT!   

Hotel workers YOU meet  -  99.5% are looking for a ride.  The other .5%  are not interested in expats, tourists or foreigners, call yourselves what you will. 

There are good honest people working in the hotel / resort industry.  They do their jobs as best they can!  Some of those  who are looking for YOU!  Be aware. Read. Learn. Watch and for heavens sake do not do anything you would not do at home.

Would you support your "date" at home?
Would you commit to someone in a week?
Would you send money without knowing what is going on at home?
Would you "trust" someone you just met?

Get a grip people. Take your time, understand what is going on and take action accordingly.

b First: there is no such thing as a mistake unless you repeat it, trust cannot be placed in general on a group of people.  Trust is gained by a lot of time & personal experience. It cannot be earned by a group. The diatribe against men in history shows a person afflicted by a malignant short sighted view of men in general. I assume a woman wrote this because she ascribes the evil to men, not as a societal assault on the "lesser" folk..      The human, universal need for companionship & love leads us often in perilous   waters, often into that Bermuda Triangle of no return.  It is a rare instance  to be able        to build that bridge over troubled waters.   I too, was blinded by the wiles of a lovely lass & failed to perceive the quicksand before me.  I was fortunate to extricate myself before drowning in that pit of errors.  A painful  dawning awareness of my own projection of perfection.  In other words , I was ripe for the picking.  Nay my friends, I shall not fall prey to my desires without taking the time to assay the reality of it all.  So hard to dismiss the attentions of a beautiful woman who offers a life of joy in her eyes.  Guys & girls use your brain to see the truth. I have close friends who have long & workable marriages. It's not a common occurance but is possible.  It is the same all over this planet of ours.    More to come on the perfidy of relationships.  The TUBA has farted!

Tuba and Planner are right on.

Bob K

Tuba ....un peo noooo.....a bit of advise....yes. missin ya my friend.

Greetings....I know this is an old post, but a friend of mine who is in a relationship with a Dominicana is wondering why she feels the need to have him not only take on her financial responsibilities, but her entire family as well? It almost seems to be the most natural thing to her, but he is left asking himself, is this going to be a life long commitment :/ He does not seem to mind taking her out and courting her the old fashioned way, but when she brings along family to outings and he has to pick up the tab, it really makes him feel used.  I tried explaining to him how the Dominican family unit functions, but I get the feeling he is going to slowly back away from that arrangement real soon.  I have always asked myself, do they not see how someone else might consider those actions as being taken advantaged of? Does it ever register that it is not cool to act that way :/

MASSAGEWIZ :

...  I have always asked myself, do they not see how someone else might consider those actions as being taken advantaged of? Does it ever register that it is not cool to act that way :/

I think they know how to create "sentimental debt".
That's why they are all eager to introduce you like a trophy to their family in early stages of relationship (sometimes the first days !), so that you start to create a bond with all the family. Mami, Papi, tia, sisters calling you cuñado etc...The whole welcome committee.

When I say "sentimental debt" is when they put you in such position that you feel bad if you don't help or pay for them etc..It is the same 'debt' when they start a relationship and they ask for money for whatever reason: its sums up in  'If you love me, you need to support me'.

Many foreign people get sucked in because they feel bad if they don't support even if deep down they are pissed like hell. Some others are willing participants because they think it is the price to pay for a lady 20+ years younger.

However when a Dominican real member of family is 'rich",  they keep distances with their relatives for the same reasons that we do when we put our boundaries.

The earlier you put boundaries, the best. If you get them used with gifts and support it is gets more difficult to back off.

Good luck on that one.  That is the "Dominican way".  Take me take my family.  YOU ARE the sugar daddy.
That is what happens many times when the little head is running the ship.

Bob K

Well said Eri76. Exactly correct. Once you do it, then it is expected!

And no Massagewhiz, they don't see it from any other perspective. They literally dont.

Wow! Eri....I have been reading responses on many forums about that specific topic, but I have never seen someone put it as eloquently as you have  :o the phrase "sentimental debt" is the best description to describe that whole mi familia arrangement.  I can attest to everything you have said since I have had acquaintances experience the same thing in the past, it starts out as a little help here and little help there, but never ending! There is always an emergency of some sort and even if they don't ask fo any cash, simply by sharing the story they expect you to lend a helping hand.  I guess any decent person would feel compelled to lend a helping hand to their significant others family plight  :(
       
     The second portion of what you said is also correct! I knew of family members who managed to move to the U.S. and surprisingly enough now found themselves in the gringo position of being asked to send this or that back home on a regular basis and guess what! They began to feel overwhelmed by the incessant requests & obligations being currently  placed upon them! I guess it does not feel so good being in the role of the gringo huh? :/  How ironic is it that family member who was once upon a time was on the other side of the equation, now find themselves in a position of feeling pressured by the requests to help out back home.
     
     Hey Bob and Planner, I know you guys are the vets on here and are always filled with the very best advice, but in all honesty and hypothetically speaking. If you guys were married to a Dominican, how would you handle being in that position? meaning the whole taking care of the extended family scenario? and how open would that partner be to accept your desicion do you think? As you know....Blood is thicker than water.  :/ Eri I would also love to hear your response, and by the way Eri how long have you been observing Dominican culture? I must once again say, your analysis of the family care agenda is most impressive! I like it sooooo much I'm going to copy and paste it in my ipad note apk in order to preserve you valuable words of wisdom.  Excellent analysis! Are you currently experiencing that situation or have experienced it? Curious to know what observations led you to your analysis :cool:

I just wanted to add to my previous post.  There is an American show called 90 day fiancé on TLC which follows different couples going through the k1 fiancee visa process.  I believe it was season 4 or 5 which featured a couple by the name of Pedro and Chantal. He is Dominican and she is American....It was quite interesting watching the cultural clashes between them. One specific clash featured was exactly what we are talking about on this post.  It seems Pedro was sending money home to his mom and sister behind his wife's back which allowed them to move in to a nice 3 bedroom apartment in Santo Domingo, while back in the U.S. they were living in a cramped Atlanta Studio.  Upon finding out, she was quite upset.  His mother asked him if he did not tell his wife about the apartment, to which he said " I do not have to tell her all my bussiness" :o They eventually decided to have a big family wedding in D.R. to allow both families to participate, and once again she was surprised at the number of items they had to buy to take back home to his family.  I could see where his bride was trying to be understanding, but you could also see the frustration on her face  :(  There was even a point where her dad and brother sat down with him and explained how his wife should be his 1st priority and his family second.  He was looking at them as if they were speaking Chinese....It simply did not compute!

     This past season also featured another American/Dominican relationship between Molly and Luis and it that particular arrangement, you could pretty much see it was a trainwreck waiting to happen. :( I feel that many Dominicans who move to the U.S. feel an obligation to maintain financial ties with family back home and it can be quite a challenge to reason with them regarding setting boundaries or limits when it comes to that issue.  Evenrually some get it, but others never do, which often creates rifts between the couples.

Here is what I would do:

Create a budget that includes "something" for the family back home. Make it very clear to all parties that this is all there is. 

Then stick to it.

It's called boundaries. Once you break them it is almost impossible to go back!

The budget must include your own savings, something for emergencies etc etc. Make it completely clear and explain it as often as needed.

Then practice the word NO. Use it every single time you need to.

I like your thinking planner, but I guess it would be a lot easier to enforce that while living with your spouse in D.R. and have more control over the finances, but once they come over here, it seem that all cards are in their hands, especially knowing they have the I-864 affidavit of support in their favor :(  It is amazing of how many stories I read of how their newly arrived partner was such a great guy or docile wallflower until that green card comes through, and Bam! Mr or Mrs Hyde makes an appearance :o This is not everyone, but in many cases I guess that partner feels your longevity on usefullness has expired. They can always upgrade once they are in America. Do you agree with the aforementioned?

That is true, I have heard all those stories and seen some first hand.  Then no budget or boundary will help you.   

When they show their true colors -  bye bye bye!   If they are simply struggling to adapt that is a whole other story.  I am sure there is help available in the USA, Canada and England where so many end up. 

I  see first hand all the expats struggling to adapt to relationships here.  Its not easy at all.

MASSAGEWIZ :

Eri I would also love to hear your response, and by the way Eri how long have you been observing Dominican culture? I must once again say, your analysis of the family care agenda is most impressive! I like it sooooo much I'm going to copy and paste it in my ipad note apk in order to preserve you valuable words of wisdom.  Excellent analysis! Are you currently experiencing that situation or have experienced it? Curious to know what observations led you to your analysis :cool:

Wow Massagewiz, I am not sure I deserve so much kudos but thank you.

To answer your questions,
I have been 2-3 times a year in RD since 5 years using a combo of vacations+dating dominicanas. So I have been kind of frequent tourist. Speaking spanish, driving through the whole country (I must have done like 12 car rentals and 15.000 kilometers if I sum up the distances I have driven) and meeting different people at their homes helps to have some insight in the mentality even if I don't live there.

However, I had to learn from mistakes: the very first time I went there (5 years ago..) I met a girl who was employee at a resort (The most common story in RD !) Once I was back home, she started right off asking for money for different reasons, sickness etc etc.... I felt sorry, I got suckered for the first 3 months until I shook my head and stopped everything and blocked her.

I have dated a couple of girls and what they ALL have in common is that they are sooo eager to introduce you to their family and make you feel that you need to spoil them with gifts.

Boundaries I sat :
- Never send gifts or money if the relationship if fresh. The earlier they talk about money, the biggest the red flag.
- Gifts only for Xmass or Birthday (only when I was sure it was really their birthday). I used to buy cheap gifts (20-30US$) on Amazon and forward them by MailBoxes services. I would not spend more that I would spend with someone I would date in my own country.
- If demands for University fees, books ect, answer : "what if you didn't have me what would you do ?"
- if demands for family needs, answer was always "No".
- When I was physically there and there was a birthday or a family event I would stop at La Sirena, buy some Presidente and food and take it to their family. Overall I avoided giving cash.
- If her "phone was broken", I would give her my used phone and buy myself a new one (I am not joking ..lol)
- If she wants to rent an flat to be away from papi and mami, answer was "Get a shared apartment with your friends" .

As per a marriage relationship, the simple rule I would apply is that if she wants to support her family, that's fine but it needs to ber HER money of what she makes with her paycheck. By no means the household income must serve to sponsor other households, brothers or sisters.  It also applies to flight tickets; if she wants to travel or her mom or someone to visit, she pays the ticket.

Eri76 :

As per a marriage relationship, the simple rule I would apply is that if she wants to support her family, that's fine but it needs to ber HER money of what she makes with her paycheck. By no means the household income must serve to sponsor other households, brothers or sisters.  It also applies to flight tickets; if she wants to travel or her mom or someone to visit, she pays the ticket.

PS. I guess the dynamics are different when you actually live in RD vs when you live married abroad. The pressure is higher living in RD as you are more exposed to see her family and /or communicate more often. Add to that Dominican spouses either don't work or make little money.
However, I'd do as most rich Dominicans do included when they live there : if in-laws become very demanding, put distances, avoid frequenting them. Saying No in the face is perceived more rude than actually ignoring.

As a former financial planner here is how I handle relationships and money here -

Each must earn something.
Each must pay a proportional share of the BASIC budget. 

Understand they will rarely be able or willing to live at your standard of living, all extras come from the higher wage earner when it is very disproportional.
Often their share can be basic food stuffs,  cable or whatever works. 

BUT - each MUST contribute something to the household!  OR the power is way off balance and it becomes an issue always.

True story -  one of the first guys I dated took me out for dinner. We split a chimi (Sandwhich) on the Malecon and he had a beer and I had a diet coke!

I was quite happy as that was within his budget!  He earned 6,000RD a month at the time. Nope we never lived together, the man could not dance!

Why do we forget the power of NO? Sure many womwen will fall by the wayside ,but sooner or later the cream shall rise. You want to know what she will be like down the road, look and listen to her mother. That is most likly what you will have. It goes for any place in the world.

Here is an alternative perception. The needed are the greedy where ever you go. Most Dominican women I know are some of the hardest working people you will find . Many work out of there house 16 hours a day 7 days a week. They don't want to live under any man because they feel to vulnerable.
Mujeriego ! They Will use your money but your house Will never be cleaner and you stomach is always full. They take pride in being house wives because it has been that way for long time. Nothing absolutely nothing is more important than their children so you will never be number one.
Superimposing your valve system on them will only bring about frustration. Study them as they study you.
When they love they love deeply and are very jealous. They have people in the barrio always checking on you and they always call her when you are out of place without doing anything in violation of your relationship. Yes you will pay but the balance doesn't always present on the same plane. A lot of men are responsible for the way younger women are today. On vacation and throwing money around for sex. Who could blame them. Work in a cigar factory for 600 pesos every two weeks or make 200 dollars a way working 4 hours ? They can be hostile or passive aggression since deep inside they feel devalued because it goes against their sense of womanhood and they will make you pay because it lowers their self esteem..
They are always 3 steps ahead of you because you entered their den. Keep treating them as sex objects and they will treat you like an ATM . About 60 % of marriages fail, so the statistics are not in your favor. If you need to ask strangers if there is something wrong , there probably is.
Looking for love in all the wrong places
" Human , all so human " ( fredrick Nieche )
Check out the countryside and never be second in your love !
Send so money to her mother only because that is her second greatest love . You will be her 3rd. Accept it , or stick with your own kind. The rest of the family buy a case of beer for get togethers. Ya.

read him again, many truths therein, then read again.

All great responses guys! Eri...That cell phone bit has me chuckling profusely :D It looks like you had a very short learning curve and picked up on things very quickly for someone who does not actually live there. Planner and Gypsy always on point as always.....Nosnownyc insightful writing, but I do not know if I could be number 3 in a realtionship, perhaps #2 to my kids, but number 3 :/  that is a no go, I would rather remain unattached :cool: Why would someone who expects me to put them at#1 and take care of all their needs, expect me to be cool with being#3??? I can do bad all by myself.....Why would I take on a dependent just to simply get the "Big Piece of Chicken" Saying this in My Chris Rock voice....All daddy gets for his hardwork is the big piece of chicken :/  as far as the cleaning, cooking, and extra stuff, I can hire a maid to do all that stuff and some. Would probably be a lot cheaper....If I'm going to have a partner, I need to make sure they got my back.
     Eri just out of curiosity, in what age demographic are you? You don't need to print your exact age, but I'm guessing you could be in your late 20's early 30's but quise wise for years :cool: Great Stuff!

Lololol

thanks, i wasn't sure people knew That I was me. This site for some reason when upgrading lost my password. Being of senile age I did not recall it either. When I tried to get a new one, Gypsy401 was exiled along with well over 1.100 posts. I was devastated being relegated to the cellar. However , I am back & say thanks for the memory. I miss Jimmy Durante too.  Now to vindicate the rant, expect EVERYTHING you are & posses to change hands when you marry a Dominican lady. It is a cultural heritage passed on for generations. Not their fault or yours. The gringos, invaders, carpet baggers or just wandering sailers have provided an alternative viewpoint in life. Its validity has no truth if believed to be so.  A combination of poverty, lack of education & worst of all, a false sense of hope in the name of rich gringos. For this we all suffer, the Dominicans most of all.  I hope that my initial detour from the topic will be forgiven by the cogency of the remainder of the text. Thank you for your patience. .......... Gypsy401, the Tinker & the farting old Tuba.  Yeah, it's me again.

Very interesting and a at time a funny conversation but one I cannot get my head (big or small) into  :)
The situation of taking care of EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is not one that appeals to me or one I would ever ever ever get involved in.

Bob K

Yes I agree, this is an interesting conversation. And I agree with most of this.

Really until you have been here at least 2 years you are a tourist and you attract a certain kind of attention. After that it depends how you act.

Relationships are hard. More than 50 per cent end in divorce. Add cultural, language, educational and financial differences and you are fighting an uphill battle. 

Decide what a relationship is worth to you. There is always a trade off!

Just an alternative perception . Not a very needy person but a practical one. To each thier own verdad , i am no one's judge.
P.S I am a Dominican and American citizen and a home owner here in DR ,  I have dual country life. Hablamos.

I dont like the word needy either.

Survival is what is strived for. Often we. An not understand that motivation.  And let's be clear it does not become an excuse for certain behaviors.  But it is what drives so many here.

Well thank god there are no opionated people on this site ! How does one argue with a perception outside of being judgemental ?  You cant , It's rhetorical. I rather have a drink, good conversation and some laughs....

Greetings planner, in defense of Nosnownyc.....I think he was referring to himself and not the actual people living in D.R.  He earlier said that you should simply get used to being #3 in the order of importance when marrying a Dominican, and I wrote back saying why would I settle for being #3 after going out on a limb to move heaven and earth for this person :/  so I think he might have been saying he personally does not mind being #3 since he is not a needy person and as long as his needs are being taken care of he is cool with it....I believe that is where his needy comments stem from.  Please correct me if I’m wrong.
      I do agree with you planner, just because there is high poverty, it should not be an excuse to do some of the not so colorful things which take place on the island.  There are third world countries where folks do not behave that way.  Turkey, Indonesia, China, Brunei, and a few Eastern European countries, so high poverty does not actually always equal a license to scam and steal.  I think it has more to do with a mix of materialism, societal values, education, family structure, and pretty much a gubernatorial system which has been failing it’s citizens for decades.  D,R. will not rid itself of all these ills until they tackle many of these issues....As they say:  If the fish stinks, it is usually from the head down. :cool:

Here is an interesting link to a video which I came across while watching YouTube.  The video speaks of the various scams which are perpetrated daily in D,R, If you are an unassuming tourist, you could easily fall victim to any one of these unscrupulous scamsters.  I hope the link is approved for sharing, if not, then send me a PM and I will share it privately....I understand that survival at times brings out the worst in many, but I have also seen it bring out the best! It all depends on core values, and unfortunately capitalism has created a by any means necessary mentality both there and abroad. :(  Hope the video serves as a teaching tool to keep you safe :cool:

https://youtu.be/6QvTO6wP_Uw

On 2nd thought, after reading the post a 2nd time.....I see what you mean.  The needed are the greedy comment is what you were referring to.  Perhaps the needed was not the best choice word to use, but I think he was simply saying that when society is lacking even the most basic needs, it brings out the worst in folks.  It is obvious that not everyone on the island feels the need to behave in that manner, but I can see how a lack of upward mobility can force many of the younger folks into a by any means necessary mentality.....but in the same scope of things, how do you explain the non needy upper eschelon’s greed :/  they are most certainly not in a needy position yet there are daily reports of their greedy shenanigans :D  How do you explain that?

Here is another good youtube link regarding a few issues which expats have to deal with while living here. I think he is quite thorough with his advice and presentation. :cool:

https://youtu.be/BYkBRS_D9lg

No my friend , nothing personal. I perceive this site as an exchange of experiences so that people who haven't been here before will have a better sense.
Needy , some people need a lot of money , some people need directions some need attention and others need to do what thier heart tells them. So I stand by the word needy.
The subject was around Dominican women and that the industrial one's aren't seen because they are Mujer de casa. These are the one's I believe people who want a relationship with are looking for and will not be found online or at bars. They take pride in thier cooking and the cleanest of thier homes. These are part of thier value system. Taking a garden hose and a broom to wash the walls is impression.
I just wanted to make the point that what one sees at the resorts or online is not reflective of all the women here.
I wish everyone success

Sorry I did not mean my comment that way at all. 

I agree with you all on these points!!!

Recently here in Santo Domingo money changer tried to scam .Y self and a friend. She was changing Canadian dollars and this guy offered a great exchange rate. I watched the scam closely as he repeatedly counted out the money and tried to palm several thousand pesos! I put a halt to it immediately and dragged my friend off. I reported it to the AMET officer nearby who informed me he only handles traffic.  Another examples always keeping your eyes open and:

If it seems too good to be true, it is!!

I know , when i change money I go inside casa banco. 47.50 , he needs to make money as well. Going to Cabarete now for 9 days. Just want fish , drink and eat. I hope you feel better. Will update you after my primary cita.
John S

I have no issue with a tone making money. Stealing I have huge issues with!

Hi everyone I have been reading everyone’s posts and have learned much from your experiences.
I met a girl #2 over three years ago. Has a young child and her dream is to complete Med School and become a doctor in her own country. I met her parents and grandparents and many uncles,aunts and cousins. Her father is hard working and is a good father and husband. My girl lives with her parents and attending college. Yes I help support and pay for her education. I try to visit every three months and will retire in 7 months. Her father and I have become good friends and I feel as though I can trust him. He works everyday as well as his two sons but are very poor but also very proud. I am considerably older than his daughter but doesn’t seem to matter. My girl will graduate from Medical School in the next few months and I will be very happy for her and her family. She says she loves me and wants only me but I will be cautiously optimistic  after hearing from everyone.
All advice is welcomed

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