UK in/out EU referendum

georgeingozo...actually Farage confirmed in an interview with Andrew Neil in 2013 that they could not ask legally resident EU citizens to leave UK. when Carswell cast doubt on that during the by-election he was corrected by Farage too. also my landlord asked a Govt Minister here what would happen to me if UK voted to leave EU. he told him the same, legally resident Brits cant be asked to leave.

totally agree about those without residency cards though

At the moment it depends on our (UK) renegotiation with the EU as to whether people vote in or out.
Also if Greece is allowed / forced to leave because the EU  will not back down on repayment then I thinkthe EU will bend over backwards to try to accommodate the UK.
They certainly will not want a country as currently economically powerful  as the UK  to jump ship, because if the UK does and prospers then the EU will prove to be the undemocratic, unelected and expensive talking shop the it is.

You can probably guess which way I would vote. 

Terry

I rather think it is a case of Greece potentially leaving the Eurozone not the EU. I cant imagine any brit expat voting to leave the EU, wouldn't make any sense. the problem is those who have been away for 15 years or more who are not entitled to a vote (as things stand)

Yes I agree the EU will do what it can to give Cameron a deal he can sell, as he will lead the stay in campaign. anything short of treaty change really, as that would trigger referenda in a few EU countries.

The other huge issue is whether a vote to leave the EU would also be a vote to leave the single market or whether the UK would seek to be part of the EEA,  in which case free movement would still apply anyway

This from  Wikipedia...

The eurozone consists of Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Spain. Other EU states (except for Denmark and the United Kingdom) are obliged to join once they meet the criteria to do so.[8] No state has left, and there are no provisions to do so or to be expelled

I for one would vote to leave the EU, I believe the UK would be better off trading with the world.

Terry

tearnet wrote:

This from  Wikipedia...

The eurozone consists of Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Spain. Other EU states (except for Denmark and the United Kingdom) are obliged to join once they meet the criteria to do so.[8] No state has left, and there are no provisions to do so or to be expelled

I for one would vote to leave the EU, I believe the UK would be better off trading with the world.

Terry

yes we know Greece has no facility to leave or be expelled, doesn't mean it cant actually happen, though I think it would be unlikely.

as for which way to vote I think it is sensible to await the wording of the referendum and also a clear indication of the intention to seek/not seek EEA membership. I do not wish to get into an argument until all that is finalised

How can someone who's a expat in Europe vote to leave Europe that's ridiculous ...

robpw2 wrote:

How can someone who's a expat in Europe vote to leave Europe that's ridiculous ...

redders_61 wrote:

The other huge issue is whether a vote to leave the EU would also be a vote to leave the single market or whether the UK would seek to be part of the EEA,  in which case free movement would still apply anyway

If the UK decides to leave EU but remain in EEA its still has to abide by many of the EU laws, but will have no say in them,.Also, one of the reasons some want to leave the EU is exactly because of the freedom of movement. Our freedom of movement to come and/or live and work in Malta is the same freedom for a Pole to go and live in the UK.

tearnet wrote:

I for one would vote to leave the EU, I believe the UK would be better off trading with the world.

Terry

Trade tariffs and restrictions have come down so far, that leaving the EU wouldnt make it that much easier to trade with the rest of the world, especially with the new trade agreement on the horizon between EU and USA. The average duty the UK pays on non-EU imports is less than 2%

robpw2 wrote:

How can someone who's a expat in Europe vote to leave Europe that's ridiculous ...

I think you will find that the UK will always be in Europe and the European market.

What does not work is a one size fits all federal state, the stated aim of some in the EU.

The common market is what I voted for, so I have no problem with voting to withdraw from an un democratic union of  dissimilar countries presided over by an unelected  group of failed ( expat) politicians.

The UK has a huge number of specialist businesses and talents that would thrive in a world market without the EU restrictions (China, India, Asia and the USA). 

Terry

georgeingozo wrote:

redders_61 wrote:

The other huge issue is whether a vote to leave the EU would also be a vote to leave the single market or whether the UK would seek to be part of the EEA,  in which case free movement would still apply anyway

If the UK decides to leave EU but remain in EEA its still has to abide by many of the EU laws, but will have no say in them,.Also, one of the reasons some want to leave the EU is exactly because of the freedom of movement. Our freedom of movement to come and/or live and work in Malta is the same freedom for a Pole to go and live in the UK.

interesting David Davis just said on Andrew marr show that IF the UK can get a UK version of the "Luxembourg Compromise" that gives France the right to say "no that is a step too far for us", then he would vote to stay in the EU. Freedom of movement is exactly why I mentioned the EEA. I don't think many Tories support leaving the single market

georgeingozo wrote:

tearnet wrote:

I for one would vote to leave the EU, I believe the UK would be better off trading with the world.

Terry

Trade tariffs and restrictions have come down so far, that leaving the EU wouldnt make it that much easier to trade with the rest of the world, especially with the new trade agreement on the horizon between EU and USA. The average duty the UK pays on non-EU imports is less than 2%

well said and the USA wont agree a separate agreement with UK, why should they. UK wont have many consumers once all the jobs at Nissan, Honda and in the city have been lost if we vote to leave not to mention all the SME's that trade with the EU now but wont be competitive if UK leaves

tearnet wrote:

robpw2 wrote:

How can someone who's a expat in Europe vote to leave Europe that's ridiculous ...

I think you will find that the UK will always be in Europe and the European market.

What does not work is a one size fits all federal state, the stated aim of some in the EU.

The common market is what I voted for, so I have no problem with voting to withdraw from an un democratic union of  dissimilar countries presided over by an unelected  group of failed ( expat) politicians.

The UK has a huge number of specialist businesses and talents that would thrive in a world market without the EU restrictions (China, India, Asia and the USA). 

Terry

strange I seem to remember voting in European elections since I was 18 or did I dream it?

redders_61 wrote:

tearnet wrote:

robpw2 wrote:

How can someone who's a expat in Europe vote to leave Europe that's ridiculous ...

I think you will find that the UK will always be in Europe and the European market.

What does not work is a one size fits all federal state, the stated aim of some in the EU.

The common market is what I voted for, so I have no problem with voting to withdraw from an un democratic union of  dissimilar countries presided over by an unelected  group of failed ( expat) politicians.

The UK has a huge number of specialist businesses and talents that would thrive in a world market without the EU restrictions (China, India, Asia and the USA). 

Terry

strange I seem to remember voting in European elections since I was 18 or did I dream it?

No dream, turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind!

This is what you voted for..

European Parliament

This is what you didn't vote for......

European Council European Council

Council of the European Union General affairs

European Commission

Court of Justice of the European Union Court of Justice of the European Union

European Economic and Social Committee European Economic and Social Committee

Committee of the Regions Commission for citizenship, governance, institutional affairs and external relations (CIVEX)

European Ombudsman European Ombudsman

plus 33.000 directly employed

2 parliaments changed every 6 months

So much corruption that the auditors refuse to sign off the accounts (every year).

The annual EU budget is €145 bn

AN  AVERAGE OF 34% OF THE UK BOTHERED TO VOTE IN THE EUROPEAN ELECTIONS SINCE 1979!

Terry

and the list of things you don't get to vote for in the UK?

QANGOS and other NGO's, NHS trusts, chief constables, Supreme Court justices, the couple of million directly employed (where does anyone elect employees?)

The very reason not many vote in EU elections is precisely because it is NOT a federal system, something I fully support, one federal nation, with state govts enacting state laws and taxes with an overarching federal parliament in Brussels with one currency. vis a vis the USA. works tolerably well there with very distinct state differences, no Texan will thank you for caling him a yank and no new Yorker will thank you for calling him a redneck.

almost as if he had read my mind..Owen Patterson (the pin up boy of the tory Eurosceptic right) says in todays sunday times that the UK should seek to fully embrace the single market without political union. one can interpret that as leave the EU but be in the EEA. once the campaign gets underway the issue of the EEA and joining it, will become fully apparent. I can understand people voting to leave the EU and join the EEA, although personally I will vote to stay in the EU in the hope that one day it lives out its true meaning and becomes a fully fledged fedral states of Europe, to rival the USA and CHINA. there is not a majority in the house of commons for leaving the whole lot and never will be.

CIVVUS ROMANUS SUM

If its done via a referendum then a majority in the parliament would not be required, let the people speak.

Glad to see you are keeping high standards  " one day it lives out its true meaning and becomes a fully fledged federal states of Europe, to rival the USA and CHINA."

The PRC is a single-party state governed by the Chinese Communist Party,
   .
Still it will save us bothering to vote!

Terry

robpw2 wrote:

How can someone who's a expat in Europe vote to leave Europe that's ridiculous ...

This is a very important issue, who gets to vote in the In Out referendum?

The SNP, some said sneakily, allowed 16 and 17 year olds to vote in the independence referendum last year. I personally think it was a good idea, even if it did mean that the likelihood of a Yes vote increased. I think they should be allowed to vote in general elections too, if you can start working and paying tax, and even go and fight for your country in foreign conflicts, why the hell can't you vote for which government you want??

Foreigners living in Scotland were entitled to vote, but Scottish expats living in England, Wales or anywhere else in the world were excluded. So who will be eligible for this referendum? I presume that immigrants working in the UK, if allowed to vote, would overwhelmingly be in favour of staying in the EU, as would the 2 million British expats who are currently living in other EU countries. But will the Tories allow them? The answer to that question will be a good indication of what they want the result to be.

tearnet wrote:

If its done via a referendum then a majority in the parliament would not be required, let the people speak.

Glad to see you are keeping high standards  " one day it lives out its true meaning and becomes a fully fledged federal states of Europe, to rival the USA and CHINA."

The PRC is a single-party state governed by the Chinese Communist Party,
   .
Still it will save us bothering to vote!

Terry

a majority will decide the terms of the question and also the implementation, you cant actually be that naïve lol

On An Island wrote:

robpw2 wrote:

How can someone who's a expat in Europe vote to leave Europe that's ridiculous ...

This is a very important issue, who gets to vote in the In Out referendum?

The SNP, some said sneakily, allowed 16 and 17 year olds to vote in the independence referendum last year. I personally think it was a good idea, even if it did mean that the likelihood of a Yes vote increased. I think they should be allowed to vote in general elections too, if you can start working and paying tax, and even go and fight for your country in foreign conflicts, why the hell can't you vote for which government you want??

Foreigners living in Scotland were entitled to vote, but Scottish expats living in England, Wales or anywhere else in the world were excluded. So who will be eligible for this referendum? I presume that immigrants working in the UK, if allowed to vote, would overwhelmingly be in favour of staying in the EU, as would the 2 million British expats who are currently living in other EU countries. But will the Tories allow them? The answer to that question will be a good indication of what they want the result to be.

yes very well said, the voter base is crucial Farage must have read your post he just spent 10 minutes on Victoria Derbyshire programme saying what we have been saying. whether its passport holders only or the voter base of European elections, which incidentally would exclude expats. it is the single most important issue followed quickly by the actual question

Can I also point out to anyone reading this thread that it is NOT POLITICAL. voting yes or no to staying in the EU does not follow party lines. Please avoid posting anything that would suggest otherwise...thank you

You might think it is not political but I would suggest it would be better to wait and see what happens in the coming months.
In the meantime it is all speculation by people who are political and many are getting bored with it!

Ray

F0xgl0ve wrote:

You might think it is not political but I would suggest it would be better to wait and see what happens in the coming months.
In the meantime it is all speculation by people who are political and many are getting bored with it!

Ray

quite right boss but I tend to not read threads I find boring rather than moan about them, but you are in charge, fortunately they closed the voting thread, the bleats about the malta hunting referendum were boring in extremis.

I have asked admin team to close the thread until such time as you think it is suitable for debate, after all EU membership is totally irrelevant to expats.

F0xgl0ve wrote:

You might think it is not political but I would suggest it would be better to wait and see what happens in the coming months.
In the meantime it is all speculation by people who are political and many are getting bored with it!

Ray

Its a debate about expats and the effect leaving the EU  would or could have on the UK and expats.

If your bored with it, then  the answer is...........


Don't read it  and don't comment on it!

Press the unsubscribe button, it really is that simple.

Terry

I couldn't agree more, Rob , a strange thing to say .