Card sanatate

I'm going thru the same problem.  Doctor says I have to get one .....the insurance house says I can't have one because I'm a foreigner (gotta love how Romanian discriminates against foreigners, yet they'll take our tax money gladly)....anyway doctor says if they won't give me one, then they should give an "adeverinta" that a card can not be issued to me.  I'm going back this week to figure it out.

corinanouk wrote:

Hi! I've been living in Romania for 4 years now. I have a Romanian employer and I pay all my taxes including those for health insurance CNAS. Do I get a health insurance card from CNAS? I'm a bit lost with all this frenzy with the card de sanatate. I checked my CNP on the CNAS website and it confirms I am insured, have a a family doctor but no insurance card has been issued for me. Any idea what to do? Do I need one?
Thanks!

The answer I've gotten and verified with others is, they don't issue cards to foreigners....so they should give you a proof of insurance valid for 3 months which you take to the doctor/pharmacy for treatment.

I have been told by my accountants, that they do issue it. But they have a long waitlist, and they issue it alphabetically. Been waiting for it since start of 2015, but my accountant is certain I will get it before the end of Q2.

Anyone have any updates on this? I've sent emails to CNAS asking if I will be getting a card but so far no response. Some time ago my father-in-law went to CNAS Brasov to ask about this but they didn't seem to know anything.

Any updates on this will be good. I might agree with romaniac above because I've had to go to the hospital in July and after waiting for about 2 hours, the nurse finally checked up on me. The reason for not looking after me was the hospital wanted my CAS card but CAS office in Oradea kept rebuffing their approach saying i don't need one. In this tug of war I had to wait for 2 hours before they finally agreed on something.

fcbayern84 wrote:

Any updates on this will be good. I might agree with romaniac above because I've had to go to the hospital in July and after waiting for about 2 hours, the nurse finally checked up on me. The reason for not looking after me was the hospital wanted my CAS card but CAS office in Oradea kept rebuffing their approach saying i don't need one. In this tug of war I had to wait for 2 hours before they finally agreed on something.

Yeah, unfortunately this still seems to be the case.  I still have not been issued a card, they still will only give me a 3 month proof of insurance as of 2-3 weeks ago.  Fortunately, the doctors and pharmacies are getting used to this and not giving me a hard time anymore about it; but who knows how long this will last   Supposedly the remaining cards that needed to be issued were supposed to be available by this week, as the card is now mandatory....but clearly, not everyone is being issued a card.

Let's keep on them, we should have those CAS cards...not stupid pieces of paper with stamps and scribbled writing.

Romaniac

So what's the best way to bother CNAS about getting cards for foreigners? Has anyone had successful communication with them via email? I've sent a few emails but haven't gotten any replies.

And if I would need that proof of insurance document, what exactly do I need to ask for from CNAS? And how long does it take to get one.


Regards,
Mikko

romaniac wrote:

fcbayern84 wrote:

Any updates on this will be good. I might agree with romaniac above because I've had to go to the hospital in July and after waiting for about 2 hours, the nurse finally checked up on me. The reason for not looking after me was the hospital wanted my CAS card but CAS office in Oradea kept rebuffing their approach saying i don't need one. In this tug of war I had to wait for 2 hours before they finally agreed on something.

Yeah, unfortunately this still seems to be the case.  I still have not been issued a card, they still will only give me a 3 month proof of insurance as of 2-3 weeks ago.  Fortunately, the doctors and pharmacies are getting used to this and not giving me a hard time anymore about it; but who knows how long this will last   Supposedly the remaining cards that needed to be issued were supposed to be available by this week, as the card is now mandatory....but clearly, not everyone is being issued a card.

Let's keep on them, we should have those CAS cards...not stupid pieces of paper with stamps and scribbled writing.

Romaniac

I totally agree with you but you are a touch luckier than me. At least you were issued with the "Adeverinta" or proof of insurance. In my case they wouldn't give me any proof of insurance nor the hospital/nurses wanted to look at my problem. That is even though I am paying taxes, I seem to be at the bottom of their priorities. I suppose it would've helped if i was an American citizen....

mikkoras wrote:

So what's the best way to bother CNAS about getting cards for foreigners? Has anyone had successful communication with them via email? I've sent a few emails but haven't gotten any replies.

And if I would need that proof of insurance document, what exactly do I need to ask for from CNAS? And how long does it take to get one.


Regards,
Mikko

Mikko,

That's just the problem, CNAS refuses to issue cards to foreigners, which is discriminatory in my opinion!  You want them to respond to email? LOL, good luck with that   Well, who knows, you could be the first to crack that barrier

To get the proof of insurance, you simply ask for a "Adeverinta".  You need to bring (original and copy) of: Residence Permit or ID card (something with your CNP and photo ) Marriage certificate (if married), and proof of payment (if you pay the insurance yourself) from the finance department. If your employer pays it, it should be in the system already. They can now see the finance department records in part. They will print it, stamp it, scribble on it and give it to you on the spot, and send you on your way hopefully.

romaniac, thanks for the info.

I know the emails are probably useless, but I still like to try.

mikkoras wrote:

romaniac, thanks for the info.

I know the emails are probably useless, but I still like to try.

If they would reply back to your email then you'd got to be santa claus! otherwise it seems very unlikely that a Government department in Romania would reply back to emails. Having said that I have tried calling the CAS office in Oradea and they just tell me wait...not sure what I'd be waiting for?

First rule of Romanian business - ignore the client. E-mails are easy to ignore or make disappear There's a handy button for that. Phone calls less so, which is why it's better to call. But even a ringing phone can be ignored (Telekom Romania...three days of calling to report a net outage...) so the best solution is always to present yourself in person.
Second rule of Romanian business - pass the buck. If you work in shifts, tell the client to call/visit later when you're no longer there so one of your colleagues has to deal with it. Pesky clients getting in the way of your Facebooking, gossiping about your grandchildren, or bestjobs searches can easily be dispatched in this way.
Third rule of Romanian business - the shrug. So the damned client has cornered you, turned up with a small rainforest's worth of 'actele', seems persistent and is demanding to know what needs to be done next according to your expert opinion. It's time for the shrug. Fix him or her with a blank look of indifference and raise those shoulders. After all, they can't expect you to know anything about the job you've been hired to do, can they? Typical unreasonable client.

Maykal wrote:

First rule of Romanian business - ignore the client. E-mails are easy to ignore or make disappear There's a handy button for that. Phone calls less so, which is why it's better to call. But even a ringing phone can be ignored (Telekom Romania...three days of calling to report a net outage...) so the best solution is always to present yourself in person.
Second rule of Romanian business - pass the buck. If you work in shifts, tell the client to call/visit later when you're no longer there so one of your colleagues has to deal with it. Pesky clients getting in the way of your Facebooking, gossiping about your grandchildren, or bestjobs searches can easily be dispatched in this way.
Third rule of Romanian business - the shrug. So the damned client has cornered you, turned up with a small rainforest's worth of 'actele', seems persistent and is demanding to know what needs to be done next according to your expert opinion. It's time for the shrug. Fix him or her with a blank look of indifference and raise those shoulders. After all, they can't expect you to know anything about the job you've been hired to do, can they? Typical unreasonable client.

So sad, but so true 

I got a reply from CNAS regarding my inquiry: "In prezent pentru cetatenii straini care au solicitat si obtinut prelungirea dreptului de sedere in Romania si care sunt asigurati in sistemul de asigurari sociale de sanatate, nu s-au emis carduri nationale. Mentionam ca au loc discutii cu Biroul de Emigrari si CNAS, pentru a ne fi puse la dispozitie bazale de date."

As in no cards for foreigners at the moment. Some discussions going on with CNAS and immigration office about putting the immigrant data to the CNAS database. Whatever that means since shouldn't all foreigners who are insured have their info already in the CNAS system. At least mine is there.

mikkoras wrote:

I got a reply from CNAS regarding my inquiry: "In prezent pentru cetatenii straini care au solicitat si obtinut prelungirea dreptului de sedere in Romania si care sunt asigurati in sistemul de asigurari sociale de sanatate, nu s-au emis carduri nationale. Mentionam ca au loc discutii cu Biroul de Emigrari si CNAS, pentru a ne fi puse la dispozitie bazale de date."

As in no cards for foreigners at the moment. Some discussions going on with CNAS and immigration office about putting the immigrant data to the CNAS database. Whatever that means since shouldn't all foreigners who are insured have their info already in the CNAS system. At least mine is there.

Agreed, my info has been in the CNAS system for 8 years, as I've gone there every 3 months to pay my insurance and get a paper.  Their response doesn't make sense, which is about par for course.

Romaniac

Agreed my info is in the database too and infact when i went to the CAS Bihor office i peeked over and looked at the dusty old PC screen and saw my info in their database. So CNAS/CAS response in essence is quite stupid and doesn't make sense as if a foreigner was to visit the hospital, The doctors are quite hell bent on him/her having a card. In the end its a merry go around with the foreigner having the most trouble.

mikkoras wrote:

I got a reply from CNAS regarding my inquiry: "In prezent pentru cetatenii straini care au solicitat si obtinut prelungirea dreptului de sedere in Romania si care sunt asigurati in sistemul de asigurari sociale de sanatate, nu s-au emis carduri nationale. Mentionam ca au loc discutii cu Biroul de Emigrari si CNAS, pentru a ne fi puse la dispozitie bazale de date."

As in no cards for foreigners at the moment. Some discussions going on with CNAS and immigration office about putting the immigrant data to the CNAS database. Whatever that means since shouldn't all foreigners who are insured have their info already in the CNAS system. At least mine is there.

One more thing I forgot to add was that foreigners won't be issued with a "Permis de Sedere" unless they have registered and paid at least one month CNAS/CAS premium. Honestly speaking I am going to make sure I don't get sick so I am spared a trip to the doctor or even the family doctor.

Hi people

I'm native here and i'll clear some things for you, if i can. Since i've lived all my life here you'd think i'm biased, but rest assured i'm telling the objective truth, good or bad as it may seem.

You don't really need the insurance (hell, it's mandatory, but still) and i actually recommend you don't use a hospital except in emergency cases, because the healthcare system here is low par and corrupt. The medical staff has very low salaries and thus they don't show interest in patients (there are no doubt individual exceptions). Best doctors leave to UK or other european countries where they get paid x10 more even as entry levels.

A consult at a private clinic costs about 25 USD. You get the same doctors as in a hospital (one works in several places) but at least they show interest there. Unfortunately the private clinics here are not that advanced and you can't rely on them for serious surgery regardless the money you push.

When you go to the hospital for some intervention be prepared to pay the staff (doctors, nurses, anesthesiologist), euros or dollars make a greater impact then the local currency. But it also makes you susceptible to leeching, as foreigners are seen as wealthy.

Now, don't be scared, our health care is slowly getting better and we're not really India.

You need to understand one thing: we do not intentionally discriminate against foreigners!
This is just the state our government is right now, we are 20 years behind Germany or UK and we are very corrupt, as in politicians don't really care about anything but themselves. If you understand romanian and watch the news (please no Antena 3) you know we have many ministers with open cases by the Anti Corruption Division (DNA) and even the Prime Minister has open cases in which i assure you he's guilty, it's just a matter of time to prove it.


Anyway, my point is, don't worry about the "card de sanatate" because the card system is extremely new and even romanians have problems with it. They'll issue one for you when they figure out a way to do it.

Bogdan, hello and welcome.  I appreciate your attempt to reassure and to calm the frustrations we have about this problem and the medical system in general, but unfortunately it is not that easy. 

Bogdan_P wrote:

You don't really need the insurance (hell, it's mandatory, but still) and i actually recommend you don't use a hospital except in emergency cases, because the healthcare system here is low par and corrupt. The medical staff has very low salaries and thus they don't show interest in patients (there are no doubt individual exceptions). Best doctors leave to UK or other european countries where they get paid x10 more even as entry levels.

Yes, it is mandatory, and we are paying the taxes for it each month! As such, we are entitled to a card de sanatate just as native Romanians are.  Yes I agree the doctors don't show interest because of their salaries, but then, they should have chosen another occupation then, or became better educated so that they would know what they're doing.

Bogdan_P wrote:

When you go to the hospital for some intervention be prepared to pay the staff (doctors, nurses, anesthesiologist), euros or dollars make a greater impact then the local currency. But it also makes you susceptible to leeching, as foreigners are seen as wealthy.

You need to understand one thing: we do not intentionally discriminate against foreigners!

Sorry Bogdan, but you just contradicted yourself right there.  This discrimination exists in many sectors, not just the medical system, and it's getting off topic which we should avoid.  Many Romanians think foreigners are wealthy (which is an incorrect stereotype), and believe it is acceptable to "leech" as you put it, our hard earned money.  Why should I be expected to pay 100 Euro for something that a Romanian pays 100 RON for? It is indeed discrimination, and it is unacceptable!

Bogdan_P wrote:

Anyway, my point is, don't worry about the "card de sanatate" because the card system is extremely new and even romanians have problems with it. They'll issue one for you when they figure out a way to do it.

Again, I appreciate your sentiment, but it's not that simple.  First, the card has been out for 13 months already, that is enough time for a competent organization to figure things out and get a card to everyone who is paying taxes.  Some of us cannot simply stand by and "not worry" about it, when people have chronic or serious medical conditions, and need to visit the doctor each month, need to take medicine each month and get refused (which we then have to argue and explain) because we don't have this card which we are entitled to.  Fortunately, the doctors and pharmacies are used to this problem now in most parts and are ok with a (adeverinta).

Kindly

Romaniac
Expat-Blog Experts Team

The card has been out on paper, yes. However it's only being used for about two months for several reasons:
1. They had problems issuing the actual card, and then getting that card to the people by mail, many didn't get it at all. Doctors also were missing the hardware needed to read the cards.
2. Once they had the cards and the hardware they realized the software wasn't working.
3. Once they fixed the software, they and the doctors didn't know how to use it, and there was no one to train them.

This is indeed off topic so i'll be quick- it's true what you said, foreigners are indeed suffering from positive discrimination, so in a way i contradicted myself. I'll avoid getting into a rant about the discrimination romanians get in Europe, i'll just mention Schengen.

Back on topic, the country is as it is, we have problems and you should not get used to them, but understand them and where they come from. Romanians waited close to a year to be able to use these cards, and they still don't work as they should http://www.sibiunews.net/articole/9-act … ional.html

So my point is you need to patient because things move slowly for everyone, not just for you.

I apologize if I sometimes offend you foreigners, this is absolutely not my intention, I'm on expat-blog.com looking to move to an asian country and I figured I can lend a hand to those interested in Romania, as I was very surprised to see a thread for my country here

Bogdan_P wrote:

The card has been out on paper, yes. However it's only being used for about two months for several reasons:
1. They had problems issuing the actual card, and then getting that card to the people by mail, many didn't get it at all. Doctors also were missing the hardware needed to read the cards.
2. Once they had the cards and the hardware they realized the software wasn't working.
3. Once they fixed the software, they and the doctors didn't know how to use it, and there was no one to train them.

This is indeed off topic so i'll be quick- it's true what you said, foreigners are indeed suffering from positive discrimination, so in a way i contradicted myself. I'll avoid getting into a rant about the discrimination romanians get in Europe, i'll just mention Schengen.

Back on topic, the country is as it is, we have problems and you should not get used to them, but understand them and where they come from. Romanians waited close to a year to be able to use these cards, and they still don't work as they should http://www.sibiunews.net/articole/9-act … ional.html

So my point is you need to patient because things move slowly for everyone, not just for you.

I apologize if I sometimes offend you foreigners, this is absolutely not my intention, I'm on expat-blog.com looking to move to an asian country and I figured I can lend a hand to those interested in Romania, as I was very surprised to see a thread for my country here

I appreciate your response. My wife has had the card since February and using it since May I think, so it has been out there longer than 2 months  Yes, there are many problems as you and others have noted with the implementation of this system.  I understand your point about being patient and that things move slow, however this is a system that is not giving equal treatment to everyone, as Romanian citizens (at least the majority) get cards, while foreigners flat out are not.  Citizen or not, it's hard to be patient and wait for the idiots that run this system to get their act together when you need medicine or medical attention. Even when I do get my prescription for medicine and get to the pharmacy, 30% of the time the system is not working and they cannot give the medicine until the computers are working again.  This system is an absolute embarrassment, and quite unfortunate given there is such a large IT sector in Romania.

And yes, I agree about your mentioning of Schengen, and I'm sure most of us here are aware of the discrimination Romanians face as well, but that indeed is another topic. Don't worry, I haven't found anything you said to be offensive. A "native" point of view is welcome and can prove insightful. I'm glad you have the attitude that these issues should not just be accepted and gotten used to.  I wish more Romanian citizens would stand up and fight for change, instead the norm is to either accept things as they are, or leave the country.

Romaniac
Expat-Blog Experts Team

I have relatives working at CAS and they confirm that NO cards will be issued to foreigners until they receive a ordenanta (directive) from the government.  I don't believe you can call this discrimination the way Romanians think first lets settle with our own then will take care of the non-romanians....All CNP that start with nrs. 1 and 2 (Romanians) then 7 or 8 for non- romanians.

I'm having a horrible time with the health system here

Whoever figures this stuff out should write a "How-to Romania" book and they'll make so much money.

I'm running into the problem where I don't have a health card, and no one will fill my prescriptions (written by my family doctor, who wouldn't take me if I wasn't on the public health insurance). Last night, I was told I had to have a Romanian citizen with me to fill my prescriptions. Thankfully, some random stranger asked me if he could help me and provided his number so I could get my medicine. But seriously! What is the point of asking for a number if it could literally be any number?

Every place I've been they've asked for my health card. My family doctor told me that it was very easy for them to put my permis de sedere number into a website to look it up, but everyone is saying that it's not possible. I don't know what to do - this is very frustrating.

Sorry if this post was all over the place, but I feel like I've reached my limit of aggravation. I had to go to three different places to ask for the health insurance, pay for the insurance, and then get five (!!) signatures on some papers - I had to miss almost two days of work. >:[

@magnolia

I hear you about being frustrated! Unfortunately, this is how the broken system goes here.  I also have to rely on Mrs. Romaniac for getting my medicine, or I take a photocopy of her ID with me.  Still though, I usually have to explain to the pharmacy that foreigners are not issued health insurance cards and show them my proof of insurance (adeverinta de asigurare) that I get every 3 months from CAS. 

The health insurance card program overall is a disaster.  A lot of times the system is down, sometimes for days and then anyone cannot get their meds.  Fortunately I have a helpful pharmacy close to home that doesn't hassle me or tell me "nu se poate", and if the system is down they'll still give me the meds and just process the insurance when it comes online later. This is the same as what I said a year ago! They haven't fixed any problems.....imagine that.  So we'll just have to continue losing time running around the city after papers and navigating the broken system.

Thanks for the info last night I went to a different pharmacy. The women were fantastic and worked with my situation. It was a much calmer experience lol. I'll probably go there from now on.

It just really astounds me how no one has any information. If you ask three different health workers how something works, you'll get three different answers (and one of them will be nu se poate  )