LIVING IN rIO nEGRO

Texas, I asked my Colombian friend if she'd do another check on rent prices here San Antonio close where I live because they're just completing these new towers close my place. And this being really safe neighborhood seemed like maybe something you'd consider. 2br 2 full bath apts gated and full time security plus cameras everywhere of course. 1.2 mil per month plus admin fee which prob 30 or 40 mil but that's just a guess. And these are owner prices without the real estate agent fee tacked on so no middleman fee which obviously makes this price cheaper. They're nice too. Personally I'm happy my two story casa few blocks away. It's bigger than the apts but I don't have the security like the apts. nbd for me because such safe place, but I do sometimes consider things like this...that people in the towers don't have to concern themselves with. But if it cost me any sleep I'd move the apts. but houses my neighborhood now almost impossible..not impossible but more difficult to find.. I'd never have been able to get this place especially at the price without my Colombian friend putting her rep on the line for me. Also another reason nice places for less so rare now is avianca moving one of its headquarters here -and that's a fact not rumor. Between 300 to 500 workers plus families looking for a place. Add to that all the Medellin folks having a place to get away -like folks from the USA having a lake or beach house. They're building new apts here everywhere but because so many good things here like it's freaking beautiful, nice caring people, little crime, and gotta mention the healthcare. There's a fully modern hospital 5 min by bus my place and they're in the process completely new med center few miles away. I get my teeth cleaned even closer at comfama. But like I've said I live in San Antonio which is a pueblo of rionegro and IMO way safer. I would not walk streets of downtown rionegro at night by myself...actually I've done it couple times and never a prob but it's not like San Antonio.

1.2 million COP a month -- that's precisely $400 US at today's exchange rate.

I did not convert the smaller administrative fee since it's a guess.

----

While I have some folks' attention, I'm en route to Colombia now .. and am wondering whether the casino(s) in Rionegro offer blackjack with a live dealer.  Anybody know?

cccmedia from a hotel in
downtown Tulcán, Ecuador,
8 miles from the Colombian border

Hi, do you have good wifi in Marinilla? What's the population? Thanks!

By the way, what's the population of La Ceja? Does it have wifi? How much would a 2bdrm-1 bath furn.apt be there?? Thanks!

Could somebody tell me if Popayan and the Cauca are pretty safe? I couldnt find any statistics on numbeo.com or OSAC.I understand Rionegro's quite safe.Any personal experiences?

Yes, wifi is widely available, with speeds depending on how far away you are from the co.

Rents are all over the place, depending on location and sq. meters.  Generally, you can expect to spend between 400,000 and 600,000 cop per month.  Be careful because, it's not like in the USA, where the owner has responsibility for repairs.  Here, if you need something repaired or painted, you pay for it yourself.  Some houses and most apartments have natural gas, while others (most) use propane.  A 90 lbs cylinder of propane is 70,000 cop.  My electric bill runs about 170,000 cops and telephone, cable tv, and internet in a package is 165,000 cop per month.  My neighbor just rented out his house of about 90 sql mtrs, with two bedrooms for 600,000 cop per month. 

I'm not certain about the exact population of La Ceja but, I think it's around 125,000.  La Ceja has more than doubled in population in the past 5 years and still growing rapidly.  There are new apartments coming on line every month.  Near me, in a good area, there is a new apartment building opening soon with 45 sq.mtr. apartments for sale at 112,000,000 cops (about $39,000 USD).  You need to be very careful about where you consider, as some parts of otherwise nice neighborhoods can be less than secure.

We initially bought here because, it was a small town of about 50K people but, it's starting to get a little too congested for us.  The infrastructure (streets and water) really don't support the population explosion.  For example, we have a three story house and the water pressure on the third floor is always very low on the weekends and holidays.  All that said, the only other small towns I would consider living in are El Retiro and El Carmen.  Both are nice but, generally more expensive than La Ceja, especially El Retiro.

Look me up, when you arrive.  I've lived in the area for over 10 years and my wife was born and has lots of family in the area.  So, I've already suffered most of the problems of a new arrival. 

BTW, new and used cars are very expensive in Colombia and you cannot import a used car, unless you are an employee of the Embassy.  Even then, it's very complicated.

Hope this helps.

Merrill

Cauca is more or less secure.  Popayan in particular is a beautiful pueblo.  The parts of Colombia, that remain dangerous are the Pacific departments and along the border areas with Venezuela.  Once you get south of Bogota or north of Bucaramanga you're probably just looking for trouble.

frankg69 wrote:

Could somebody tell me if Popayan and the Cauca are pretty safe? I couldnt find any statistics on numbeo.com or OSAC.... Any personal experiences?

I spent a week in Popayán last month and found it safe with adequate police presence.

However, about 20 miles south of the city during a late-night rainstorm, my car was viciously attacked on the Panamericana by two men on a motorcycle, throwing rocks at my rear windshield.  They destroyed the windshield, which was later replaced in Popayán.

I suspect they wanted to rob me or kidnap me.  They used the slow-driving conditions to ‘box me in' between their moto and a slow-moving truck in front of me.

With the windshield gone, one more rock could have done me in .. so I stepped on the gas, passed the slow truck and tried to outrun the attackers into Popayán.

I was lucky to survive the attack.  On the slick road, my car spun out and almost crashed into a hillside, prompting the maniacs to flee the scene.

cccmedia from La Zona Cafetera

It's possible that La Ceja is not growing quite as fast as the above poster thinks.

As of 2015:  52,000 lived in La Ceja, Colombia.

source: Wikipedia

You might very well be attacked, especially by men on motorcycles at night, in just about any remote area of Colombia.  It's common for them to fake car or motorcycle trouble to get you to stop.  Then they will rob you at gun point.  Generally a small group of four or less folks are only looking to rob you and not kidnap you.  The problem is, in remote areas, it's easy to stop and kill folks for their valuables and toss the bodies off to the side, where they are not discovered for a long time.  They know it's next to impossible to get caught and even if they do, the most they're likely to get is 30 year in prison (no death penalty here).  Also, in most cases, they'll serve a short percentage of the time.  Very unlikely they'll spend more than 15 years on a 30 sentence.  Also, if they're under age, there will be no punishment at all.

BTW, in Colombia, if you kill someone in defense of your life, you will be judged guilty of homicide and go to prison.  You can get a license to carry a fire arm but, if you use it, you're screwed.

laceja wrote:

You might very well be attacked, especially by men on motorcycles at night, in just about any remote area of Colombia.  It's common for them to fake car or motorcycle trouble to get you to stop.  Then they will rob you at gun point.... Also, if they're under age, there will be no punishment at all.

Good for you, Laceja, for standing up and telling a truth.  Nobody in Popayán, including the national police, admitted to ever having heard of such an attack in this época.

Your tips about fake car or motorcycle trouble and no punishment for minors are important to know about.

I suspect the moto-attackers I encountered wanted me to pull over and stop.  They were screaming at me -- the screams clearly audible through the back of my car once the windshield disintegrated into shards of glass.  I didn't see any possible advantage in stopping, just the opposite.

cccmedia in La Zona

Thanks for all that info, Merrill.I'm interested in La Ceja because it's pretty, has good weather, the crime rate seems to be low, and it's not too expensive. My name is Frank, and I plan to be there no later than August.I'm a retired American and my girlfriend's Argentine. My email's: ***. I don't know how to contact you on expat.com.Would you mind giving me your email addie? Thanks so much!!

Thanks so much!!

Thanks so much for that info!!

Hola Living in Rio Negro,
I'm currently living in Jardin for the past 2 1/2 yrs.and want to get closer to Med. Do you know of any private fincas for rent barato? Have you ever played golf there? I'm currently in a great place, soon to be overrun with tourist's, and in need of a change of venue.La Clima por all'a estas  muy paracido y muy cerca a muchos cosas. Anyhow if you have a moment would welcome your thoughts.
Regards,
Todd

Jardín, Colombia, (hahr-DEEN) is about to be overrun by tourists?

Why would you think that is about to happen, Shemlock?

By referring to "a great place about to be overrun," were you referencing Jardín in general .. or a specific development within the municipality?

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

Shamrock:

Been living in the Rionegro area for about 10 years and I can tell you this area has literally become the most expensive area in all of Colombia.  I doubt very seriously you could find a casa finca for less than $2 million/month.

The Rionegro area is very desirable, mainly because the airport is here, two major hospitals and,  excellent shopping.  Basically, this area has all the benefits of Medellin, without the traffic.  The problem for me is, it's growing fast and there are more and more extranjeros every day.  That's one of the reasons the prices are skyrocketing.  If you get out around some of the surrounding municipalities, like Santuario, prices start to get more reasonable.

If I happen to hear of something, I'll be sure to post it here.

Dear Laceja,

I've posted this question several times online .. and have yet to receive an answer.  Maybe you know.

Is there a blackjack table with a live dealer at the casino(s) in Rionegro?

--------

What about a public pool there that is warm enough to swim in?  Outdoor swimmable public pool?  Hotel pools?

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

I also would like to live in rionegro. I can't handle the pollution here in medellin. Does anyone know of a place for a single guy can live? I don't have a car or moto, and would love to live near a bus route. Thank you all for your time.

There are lots of apartments in Rionegro for rent upwards of $800K/month.  Look on Trovit.  Public transportation in Rionegro is as good as anywhere in Medellin, with buses and colectivos that go everywhere.  You can catch a bus from terminal norte, which will drop you off about two blocks from the central park, which is under heavy construction at this time.  But, once you get to Rionegro you'll find there is public transportation to any of the candidate apartments you have selected to view.

My wife and I looked at houses in Rionegro to buy, but once they knew I was American, it seemed like the whole pricing structure changed.  We decided not to buy but if we go back, I am only sending her in to photography and report back.  Next time I will not disclose my nationality until we have a solid price without all kinds of other charges that seem to inflate the cost.

I experienced a similar problem, when I first arrived but, after a year or two, I learned how to negotiate with a smile.  Paisas are very well known for negotiating for the best deal possible and that may very well include raising the price, if they feel the buyer can afford more.  And, as you have discovered, ALL extranjeros are rich.

Now, when you buy, there are transfer costs, which are negotiable as to who pays them.  Traditionally, the notaria costs are split 50/50 and the seller pays all other costs, including any real estate agent fees, unless that agent works for you.  In that case, you pay the agent fees.  Remember, in Colombia there is no national association of realtors and no national listing service.  If a house or finca is listed with an agent, it is exclusive to that agent.  So, the listing agent DOES NOT share his/her fees with your agent, like they do in the US and Canada.

Dear La Ceja,

What do you consider a fair buyer's-agent fee, by percentage, for property including condo-purchase in your vicinity?

cccmedia in La Zona

In a prior life, back in the USA, I was once a real estate agent so, with that in mind, I would suggest not paying more than 3% to a sellers agent.  However, you'll probably find they ask for 5% or 6% so, just negotiate for 3%.  If they demand more, tell them thank you but, no and walk away. 

That said, personally, I would never hire a sellers agent because, they will likely just go to the same Internet sites you could use to find just about every property available.  When you look at properties, that are represented by an agent, that agent will likely want to show you every property he has listed.  When you look at for sale by owner properties and it doesn't work for you, you can ask if they know of other properties.  You'll be surprised at how many will give you a referral.  Indeed, in Colombia everyone is an agent so, a seller may call you later with another property they know of, that's for sale.  They will have negotiated in advance with the owner to get their own little commission.  The best way to find a good deal in the area is to find the area you think you like and rent for awhile.  That way you'll get to know the people and, through word of mouth, you'll find the place you want to buy.  If you think you're paying too much for rent, make it a short term contract... 6 months.

Another idea is to find a builder, who himself is an "oficial", which basically means he's a master builder.  Anyway, he'll know of every property that's for sale and will be looking for an opportunity to build you a house.

One other thing, check to see in what "extracto" the house is located.  That governs the utility rates for the house.  Extracto 1 (which doesn't really exist) has the lowest rates and extracto 5 has the highest.  Typically, the lower it is the more rural it is but, that's beginning to change in the San Nicolas valley.

Don't be afraid to negotiate.  Just do it with a smile and when they give you a price, tell them, yes, you're a gringo but, not a "gringo rico".  Be firm but, polite.

Is it possible to rent a furnished appartment or small house
on a weekly or monthly basis. My wife & I plan on moving
there, and as we are not familiar with Medellin or Colombia,
except for what we have read or what friends have told us,
we would like to find a temperary place to stay, cheaper
& more practical than a hotel, while we see how things
fit us. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am fluent
in Spanish.

Thanks in advance,

Jim
San Antonio, Texas

Jim:

There are more apartments for rent in Medellin than I can count.  I'm sure some of them are furnished and are available by the week.  Just do a google search for "arrienda apartmentos por semana medellin".  You'll find lots of them.

jimbob7216 wrote:

Is it possible to rent a furnished appartment or small house
on a weekly or monthly basis?

www.airbnb.com has houses, apartments and rooms at rates typically well below Expat-standard hotel-room rates.  Weekly and monthly discounts are typically posted on many offerings.  This week I saw monthly discounts of 41-53 percent on some listings in Colombia at that site.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

Thank you for your helpful responses. One more
question, which is an important one; how can I
be sure that the area where I am renting is in a
safe area?
Thank you again,
Jim

Jim, simple question but, one that's nearly impossible to answer.  The short answer is, you can't be sure it's a safe area.  Also, it depends on whether you're talking about the city or rural areas.

In Medellin, for example, I was shocked to discover much of the mountain side areas, with the great views of the city below, are NOT safe at all.  In fact, many are deadly.  An exception would be Poblado, which is pretty safe and expensive.

Smaller cities, like Rionegro, are a little easier to figure out where it's safe and where it's not.  Just look around.  If it very old and run down, it's not very safe.  Areas in Rionegro that are pretty safe are around the Catholic University area, Gualenday and, San Antonio.  Also, parts of Porvenir can be safe but, there is a lot of drug activity in that area.  I'm pretty much referring to areas with good public transportation.

Personally, when I first arrived, I decided I wanted to jettison the life style I left up north and live more like a local.  So, I pretty much ignored the warnings from the US Embassy and settled on, what was then, a small rural town.  I was warned it wasn't the safest place but, discovered La Ceja to be quite safe and secure.  And, because I wanted to live more like a local, it was good there were no Americans living in the area at the time.  It was a little difficult at first because, these small towns were, until recently, pretty much isolated and the people somewhat xenophobic.  So, it took awhile before they accepted me.  However, until recently, I never felt in any danger, just a little isolated.

The problem is, Medellin has become so overcrowded, the government has started encouraging much more development in this area (including Rionegro)... Lots of apartments.  As a result, we're getting a lot of migration from those more dangerous areas of Medellin, which is affecting security.  The bright side is, there is now a significant increase in police presence and they are doing their job.  Doing drugs isn't a crime, just selling them but, doing those drugs in a public area, like on a street corner or park, is the equivalent of a traffic violation and subject to a $170,000 fine.  A couple of those folks have been caught in the park across the street from us and fined.  Result, no more "drogos" in this area.

One thing I should point out, in Colombia, you do not have the automatic right to defend yourself or your property with lethal force.  If someone breaks into your house, while you are there, you cannot legally shoot them, unless the shoot you first.  If you do, you will likely spend many years in a Colombian penitentiary.

If I were in your position, I would find an area you think you like and post it here to get opinions from folks who know the area.

jimbob7216 wrote:

Thank you for your helpful responses. One more
question, which is an important one; how can I
be sure that the area where I am renting is in a
safe area?
Thank you again,
Jim

All you can do is ask people's opinions, and do your research - and there are still no guarantees - not even if you never go outside of your conjunto cerrado.  How can I be sure I won't be hit by a car tomorrow?  Well, I guess I could stay home, inside.  But then how can I be sure the roof won't fall in on me?  I can't - a storm or a tornado could destroy my house.

You can be literally anywhere and there are no guarantees that you will be untouched by crime or some kind of disaster.  You must ask people but still realize you could be a victim of crime - use your common sense, however - odds are you are less subject to crime in Medellín than in Bogotá depending on the area, and less subject to crime in Dapa than in Cali, and less chance of being a victim in Rionegro than Medellín, etc. etc.

laceja wrote:

I was shocked to discover much of the mountain side areas, with the great views of the city below, are NOT safe at all.  In fact, many are deadly.  An exception would be Poblado, which is pretty safe and expensive.

I pretty much ignored the warnings from the US Embassy and settled on, what was then, a small rural town.  I was warned it wasn't the safest place but discovered La Ceja to be quite safe and secure.

....doing those drugs in a public area, like on a street corner or park, is the equivalent of a traffic violation and subject to a $170,000 fine.  A couple of those folks have been caught in the park across the street from us and fined.  Result, no more "drogos" in this area.

....in Colombia, you do not have the automatic right to defend yourself or your property with lethal force.  If someone breaks into your house while you are there, you cannot legally shoot them, unless they shoot you first.  If you do, you will likely spend many years in a Colombian penitentiary.

Kudos to poster La Ceja -- the eyebrow  

This is the kind of thoughtful, balanced, experience-based post that makes the Colombia forum better and more useful.

A few comments....

La Ceja calls El Poblado an out-of-the-ordinary hillside area in that it is low-crime.  I agree that it's safer there, in fact much safer than most elevated areas, but I do not consider it a hillside area.  It's way down in the basin of the Aburrá Valley and, from the main drag (Avenida Poblado), you look upward at the far-more-dangerous favelas that most new arrivals would not find to be Expat-friendly.

La Ceja implies that the U.S. State Department has warned folks away from the pueblo of La Ceja, Colombia.  From my reading, the State Department has warned folks to avoid unpopulated rural areas of southern Colombia.  However, unless poster La Ceja can demonstrate otherwise, I assert that the State Department has not been warning people away from towns near Medellín in recent years -- La Ceja, Colombia, for example.

Poster La Ceja says that some people who used drugs in public were subject to fines of $170,000.  Most of us familiar with Colombia know that he means 170,000 Colombian pesos, not US dollars.  Writing on a public forum, it's appropriate to clearly distinguish which currency we are writing about.  170,000 pesos is about $55 U.S. at today's exchange rate.

The comments about defending yourself in your home with lethal force .. are especially timely.  Inside a residence in Oklahoma this week, the youthful son of the homeowner cut down three teenage would-be robbers with an automatic weapon.  The perpetrators all died.  They were carrying a total of one set of brass knuckles and one knife among them. 

The homeowner's son has not been charged with a crime as of today.  By some reports, he had gone into "shock" when he realized his home was about to be robbed by three youths .. and reached for the deadly weapon.  Legal analysts point out that he may have acted lawfully under Oklahoma's "Make My Day" law.

cccmedia in La Zone Cafetera

Sorry cccmedia, I did not mean to imply the US Embassy warned against La Ceja specifically.  They were warning against traveling/living in rural areas and small towns in general.

I want to make it clear, in my opinion, Colombia is as safe a place to live and visit as most places in the USA.  You just need to exercise common sense and be aware it is NOT the US and the laws are not the same, referencing the self defense part.  My intent was to communicate that Colombia is not the dangerous country it was 20 or so years ago but, that doesn't mean there aren't areas almost as dangerous as South Chicago, for example.

I'm also sorry I wasn't specific about the denomination of currency I was speaking of.  I've been here a long time and haven't thought of the cost or price of things in terms of USD for quite awhile.  Anyway, the value of the USD has fluctuated between about 1600 to 3200 COPs to the USD so, stating costs in COPs one can do their own conversion.  Today, $170,000 COP's is actually about $60 but, tomorrow, who knows.

My post was not intended to make anyone shy away from visiting or living in Colombia.  We were asked for our opinion on what areas are safe to live in.  Since Colombia is generally safe, it was much easier to point out the areas that are unsafe and also point out the US Embassy views the security in Colombia through a distorted lens.

Thank you laceja and cccmedia for your informative & helpful answers. I still have almost a year to continue to learn and evaluate.
The suggestion to post here for feedback on areas we are considering
makes a lot of sense. The best idea I have heard yet.
Regards,
Jim

laceja wrote:

The USD has fluctuated between about 1600 to 3200 COPs to the USD....

Today, $170,000 COP's is actually about $60 but, tomorrow, who knows.

It only takes a few seconds to find the COP to USD exchange rate.   A couple of times  a week, I Google convert 1 usd to cop in the address-bar atop any web page .. and the rate is instantly shown on a multi-year conversion chart when I hit Enter.

Yes, the rate was 1 USD = about 1,600 COP, but that was years ago.

If you look at the chart, you will immediately see that the rate has been extremely steady for a full year -- channeling between 1 USD to 2850 COP and 1 USD to 3100 COP .. with few outlier days.

Today the rate is at 2875 COP to the dollar.

Here in Coffee Country, the difference between the old rate at 1600 and the more recent rate means that a new condo apartment that may have cost over $30,000 US several years ago .. can now be purchased for under $20,000. 

Of course, such 20K deals are not available in Expat-standard neighborhoods in pricier Medellín. 

cccmedia in La Zona

laceja wrote:

Since Colombia is generally safe, it was much easier to point out the areas that are unsafe and also point out the US Embassy views the security in Colombia through a distorted lens.

I just checked the U.S. State Department's travel.state.gov Travel Warnings page for Colombia.

The State Department is maintaining restrictions against U.S. government personnel traveling on most Colombia roads, whether by car or bus.

The safe areas are roads here in the Coffee Zone departments of Quindío, Risaralda and Caldas .. and on Route 90 along the Colombian coast from Cartagena to Santa Marta.

For all other travel, the U.S. government personnel go by air when doing intercity travel anywhere in Colombia.

Based on my personal experience, I think this an excellent example to follow.  In December (2016), when heavy rains delayed my car travel heading northward in southern Colombia south of Popayán, two maníacos on a motorcycle terrorized me in a rainstorm, throwing rocks at my Chevy Sail -- destroying the rear windshield.  The delincuentes continued to pursue for a while .. and I was lucky to get out of the situation uninjured.

The ex-FARC's and former cartel soldiers were marginalized out of the cities a decade ago.  Driving within COL cities is much safer these days.

It's traveling on roads in rural areas, especially at night, that remains problematic in this respect IMO.

cccmedia in La Zona

Hello Florida Ray,

I've been living in Medellin for 6 months and I'm already tired of the traffic and air pollution.
I'm  ready to move to Rio Negro.
Could you put me in touch with your Colombian friend ?
I speak fluent conversational Spanish and would love to deal direct with an owner.
Gracias

If you're going to move, do it soon.  Once the tunnel is completed between Medellin and Rionegro making it about a 30 min. drive.  I think that the people of Medellin will be moving out to smaller towns.

The Rionegro area already has some of the most expensive real estate in all of Colombia.

Laceja and Texas are right both points. But the rionegro area incudes mega nice places like llanogrande etc. My barrio of San Antonio very nice and safe and not as expensive. It is a family town though not a party town. And my opinion they want to keep it that way which is fine by me. Yes it lights up on weekends but mostly quiet during the week.