Hi Everybody (From A New Member)

Hi Karl!

Welcome on Expat-blog!

welcome karl !

Cricket is a good game I am watching the Eng Vs Pak series in Libya and Eng are off to smash the One dayers I tell yaa!

Regards
Expat born in Libya!

Welcome

good luck

Welcome on board Karl, I am from Edinburgh via Aberdeen (last 20 + years), I am a big football fan (Hibernian, although we are sheeeite at the moment) and also like my mixed martial arts, training at the gym and swimming.

I hope you are settling into life in Tripoli, it can take a while to get used to it, but it is worth it once you do.

welcome karl

Clansman wrote:

Welcome on board Karl, I am from Edinburgh via Aberdeen (last 20 + years), I am a big football fan (Hibernian, although we are sheeeite at the moment) and also like my mixed martial arts, training at the gym and swimming.

I hope you are settling into life in Tripoli, it can take a while to get used to it, but it is worth it once you do.

Clansman, how is it worth it?

Sea Angel wrote:

Clansman wrote:

Welcome on board Karl, I am from Edinburgh via Aberdeen (last 20 + years), I am a big football fan (Hibernian, although we are sheeeite at the moment) and also like my mixed martial arts, training at the gym and swimming.

I hope you are settling into life in Tripoli, it can take a while to get used to it, but it is worth it once you do.

Clansman, how is it worth it?

Just my opinion, but to be out of 'the rat race' of life in the UK, where everyone has to have the best of everything, also the weather is really crap in the north of Scotland. I also like different cultures, and mainly find the Libyans very friendly and welcoming. An example of this was coming home from the gym yesterday, and the 2 guards (Libyans) outside of the British Consul were settling down to eat, they invited my wife and I to join them and shared their food with us. Now that wouldn't happen in the UK or just about any other country I can think of. also saving the vast majority of my salary as their is SOD ALL to spend it on here

Yep, that's why we're here too to save money and we had no idea what we were going to have to deal with.  The weather is great here. 

We have good weather and friendly people in Texas as well.

I guess because you are not a women and have to endure the 30-year-behind-times mentally with all the looking, saying things and hollaring us women have to endure here -- even if you are covered up.

I know they do it out of stupidity and insecurity, but it makes me uncomfortable and I hate going to the stores and I need to.  Even my Russian hair dresser said the same.

I would rather be in Belize -- which is a third-world country as well -- but they are very nice, the food is wonderful.  You can have fun and drink.  It's a fun-happy-welcoming atmosphere. 

We are all here trying to help them and they make it so difficult.  They have no clue.

Sea Angel wrote:

Yep, that's why we're here too to save money and we had no idea what we were going to have to deal with.  The weather is great here. 

We have good weather and friendly people in Texas as well.

I guess because you are not a women and have to endure the 30-year-behind-times mentally with all the looking, saying things and hollaring us women have to endure here -- even if you are covered up.

I know they do it out of stupidity and insecurity, but it makes me uncomfortable and I hate going to the stores and I need to.  Even my Russian hair dresser said the same.

I would rather be in Belize -- which is a third-world country as well -- but they are very nice, the food is wonderful.  You can have fun and drink.  It's a fun-happy-welcoming atmosphere. 

We are all here trying to help them and they make it so difficult.  They have no clue.

That is the bit that really does my nut in, hypocritical to say the least. As a male I am treated generally very well, a lot of the local guys in my area speak to me all the time, but when my wife goes into a shop she will just get a 'hello' from the guy behind the counter, the same guy who will try and hold a 10 minute conversation with me every time I am in. It is a cultural thing as well though, women here are treated as 2nd class citizens. Had a great laugh going into an open area coffee and shisha shop and sitting down with her for a coffee and a smoke, nothing was said though. Most ex pat women ignore young men if they even say 'hello' which can cause hostility, my wife just says hello back, and generally gets a 'welcome to Libya' comment, nothing more.

Sea Angel wrote:

I guess because you are not a women and have to endure the 30-year-behind-times mentally with all the looking, saying things and hollaring us women have to endure here -- even if you are covered up.

I know they do it out of stupidity and insecurity, but it makes me uncomfortable and I hate going to the stores and I need to.  Even my Russian hair dresser said the same.


We are all here trying to help them and they make it so difficult.  They have no clue.

So true. Money is the key thing for us to be here as well. Even I hate going alone anywhere here...They don't spare you even if you walk with your spouse,wearing full covered clothes except headscarf..Now thats the epitome of what you call "disgusting"..you walk, people come close and say things you have no clue about ..even kids speak s*** ..you don't know should you be angry or feel sorry ..few english words picked up from god knows where and blindly using them..just having no clue how demeaning it can be..well, this is just my experience..

PS- I know this is off the topic but had to post.

Yes, even kids do it too.  Thanks for sharing all your experiences. It makes me feel better.  I know we are all in the same boat.  I am usually so good at turning not so good experiences into good, but having a real hard time.  My friends would be shocked.

This is how I cope when walking down the street, I chant "Barbaric idiots" to myself and hold my head high knowing who is of better class.  ))

I very seldom let anything bother me, but this has.  Soon I hope I will find a way to let the steam go.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we are all different.

Sorry.  Just venting.

Sea Angel wrote:

Yes, even kids do it too.  Thanks for sharing all your experiences. It makes me feel better.  I know we are all in the same boat.  I am usually so good at turning not so good experiences into good, but having a real hard time.  My friends would be shocked.

This is how I cope when walking down the street, I chant "Barbaric idiots" to myself and hold my head high knowing who is of better class.  ))

I very seldom let anything bother me, but this has.  Soon I hope I will find a way to let the steam go.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we are all different.

Sorry.  Just venting.

I have been informed of quite a few Arabic swear words that work but you being a lady shouldn't risk using them. Either do what you do now, or tell them 'they should respect themselves', the local guys tell me this works, or if you really are feeling threatened take your mobile phone and say 'I am phoning the police', and watch the little cowards scatter off into the distance.

Sea Angel wrote:

Yes, even kids do it too.  Thanks for sharing all your experiences. It makes me feel better.  I know we are all in the same boat.  I am usually so good at turning not so good experiences into good, but having a real hard time.  My friends would be shocked.

This is how I cope when walking down the street, I chant "Barbaric idiots" to myself and hold my head high knowing who is of better class.  ))

I very seldom let anything bother me, but this has.  Soon I hope I will find a way to let the steam go.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we are all different.

Sorry.  Just venting.

You are not alone I have found a solution though. I have music plugged in my ear all the time when out..and it has worked very well for me. You can try this one if you haven't yet. Music makes me happy,calm and I can't hear them. Also some of them are discouraged to say anything knowing i wont be hearing  any of those remarks!

That's a great idea.  Sorry I highjacked this thread.

Clansman wrote:

Sea Angel wrote:

Yep, that's why we're here too to save money and we had no idea what we were going to have to deal with.  The weather is great here. 

We have good weather and friendly people in Texas as well.

I guess because you are not a women and have to endure the 30-year-behind-times mentally with all the looking, saying things and hollaring us women have to endure here -- even if you are covered up.

I know they do it out of stupidity and insecurity, but it makes me uncomfortable and I hate going to the stores and I need to.  Even my Russian hair dresser said the same.

I would rather be in Belize -- which is a third-world country as well -- but they are very nice, the food is wonderful.  You can have fun and drink.  It's a fun-happy-welcoming atmosphere. 

We are all here trying to help them and they make it so difficult.  They have no clue.

That is the bit that really does my nut in, hypocritical to say the least. As a male I am treated generally very well, a lot of the local guys in my area speak to me all the time, but when my wife goes into a shop she will just get a 'hello' from the guy behind the counter, the same guy who will try and hold a 10 minute conversation with me every time I am in.

Sorry Clansy but being honest with yaa, if that guy at the counter starts chit chatting with your wife I don't think for one bit you'd like it! I am not being rude here but think about it isn't it better that he does not chat with your wife for 10 minutes? You also have to understand the language barrier, not many people here understand English or even speak it so how in the world will they chat with an expat?...you should look at it from both ends not the one your in only!

It is a cultural thing as well though, women here are treated as 2nd class citizens. Had a great laugh going into an open area coffee and shisha shop and sitting down with her for a coffee and a smoke, nothing was said though. Most ex pat women ignore young men if they even say 'hello' which can cause hostility, my wife just says hello back, and generally gets a 'welcome to Libya' comment, nothing more.

Clansman wrote:

I have been informed of quite a few Arabic swear words that work but you being a lady shouldn't risk using them. Either do what you do now, or tell them 'they should respect themselves', the local guys tell me this works, or if you really are feeling threatened take your mobile phone and say 'I am phoning the police', and watch the little cowards scatter off into the distance.

Don't try swearing back in arabic, trust me on this it could go the wrong way. Simply ignore!

__________________
Expat Born in Libya!

Sea Angel wrote:

Yes, even kids do it too.  Thanks for sharing all your experiences. It makes me feel better.  I know we are all in the same boat.  I am usually so good at turning not so good experiences into good, but having a real hard time.  My friends would be shocked.

This is how I cope when walking down the street, I chant "Barbaric idiots" to myself and hold my head high knowing who is of better class.  ))

I very seldom let anything bother me, but this has.  Soon I hope I will find a way to let the steam go.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we are all different.

Sorry.  Just venting.

Hi, I just can't stop myself from writing here, since I feel you are describing exactly the same situations that I have to deal with every single day in this country. Even though you all live in Tripoli (which is much more "civilized" in comparison to small towns / cities) I see that you women deal with the same conflicts that I deal with here in Benghazi.

Here people are even worse, especially the young boys. Even the little ones look at you as if you were an alien and then start following and saying stupid things after you. They don't care if you go together with your husband or with any male “bodyguard”.

Not even in the Supermarket can you (as women) walk with certain freedom to do your groceries in a quiet manner, which is a basic thing you can expect to accomplish with certain normality, out of the question talking about going shopping alone (clothes, make up, etc.) 

I feel myself in a kind of harassment all the time and I have to say that I have adapted my wardrobe to this country, walking with long Tunic/Blouses (with no décolleté and long sleeves) just I don't use the scarf on my hair, but no matter all the security measurements you take, they find all the time a way to tease you, just because you are a woman and a foreigner.

Clansman I will send you a PM with a special request.

Thank you folks.

Well said, Amelia.  Thanks for the input.  It sure does help and I know exactly what you mean.  Do you ever find yourself saying to yourself -- are they kidding?  Do they really not know who is of the better class?

If you want to vent more, I started a new topic -- feeling, venting, crying and coping -- something like that.

This poor newcomers thread has been hijacked.  LOL

Good grief, what have you done to my thread!!

You give women an inch............

I blame you for this Clansman

Anyhow, I know it's now off topic, but thanks for the welcomes guys n gals!!

LOL.  I thought we ran you off Kes1978.  Glad you are still with us.

I started another thread hopping to get off yours.  LOL  Sorry we hijacked it.  And welcome again.

Just signed up howdy Kes and all. Live in Dahra. Born in Wales. Australian citizen and lived in LIbya for 153 days.  Started to spend most evenings doing fitness.

I support Swansea and this is the closest I have been for a few years to the UK. Family back in UK for while since the US caused the financial meltdown or was that the UAE. Got to find a flat or temporary place meet which was not the reason for signing up but I have seen some places that are not satisfactory and I think the market is taking the pish.

Sea Angel wrote:

Well said, Amelia.  Thanks for the input.  It sure does help and I know exactly what you mean.  Do you ever find yourself saying to yourself -- are they kidding?  Do they really not know who is of the better class?

If you want to vent more, I started a new topic -- feeling, venting, crying and coping -- something like that.

This poor newcomers thread has been hijacked.  LOL

Thanks for writing. I will see if I can find the other topic.

Amelie2010 wrote:

Sea Angel wrote:

Yes, even kids do it too.  Thanks for sharing all your experiences. It makes me feel better.  I know we are all in the same boat.  I am usually so good at turning not so good experiences into good, but having a real hard time.  My friends would be shocked.

This is how I cope when walking down the street, I chant "Barbaric idiots" to myself and hold my head high knowing who is of better class.  ))

I very seldom let anything bother me, but this has.  Soon I hope I will find a way to let the steam go.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we are all different.

Sorry.  Just venting.

Hi, I just can't stop myself from writing here, since I feel you are describing exactly the same situations that I have to deal with every single day in this country. Even though you all live in Tripoli (which is much more "civilized" in comparison to small towns / cities) I see that you women deal with the same conflicts that I deal with here in Benghazi.

Here people are even worse, especially the young boys. Even the little ones look at you as if you were an alien and then start following and saying stupid things after you. They don't care if you go together with your husband or with any male “bodyguard”.

Not even in the Supermarket can you (as women) walk with certain freedom to do your groceries in a quiet manner, which is a basic thing you can expect to accomplish with certain normality, out of the question talking about going shopping alone (clothes, make up, etc.) 

I feel myself in a kind of harassment all the time and I have to say that I have adapted my wardrobe to this country, walking with long Tunic/Blouses (with no décolleté and long sleeves) just I don't use the scarf on my hair, but no matter all the security measurements you take, they find all the time a way to tease you, just because you are a woman and a foreigner.

Clansman I will send you a PM with a special request.

Thank you folks.

Have you all Sea angel, Amelie, Clansman and very push Genie thought for a second what kind of suffering foregin pple get in your countries? No you have not coz you did not need to.
I have lived in England for 8 years, although like many of my friends we were studying and paying money not going to make money, we had a lot of trouble with locals especially the dark Arab looking friends. They and their wives have been verbally abused in many cases; racist comments were on a daily basis on buses and other pubic areas. My friend's wife was attached in a park and her bag was snatched and she went to the hospital for few days coz of the shock.
another friend was attached in a park because he was trying to protect his little 5 yrs old girl from a dog that attacked her and was on top of the little girl, as her father was trying to hit that dog and get it off his daughter he was attacked by locals and accused of mistreating the animals.

I personally suffered from many racist comments plenty of times, we had kids missing with our car and shouting at us in front of our house just because we were foreigners.
I never judged the whole population according to the rough less educated class who think that every foreigner in their country is there to seek asylum and get benefit.

Be realistic, this does not happen only in Libya, this can happen anywhere.

mancunian wrote:

Amelie2010 wrote:

Sea Angel wrote:

Yes, even kids do it too.  Thanks for sharing all your experiences. It makes me feel better.  I know we are all in the same boat.  I am usually so good at turning not so good experiences into good, but having a real hard time.  My friends would be shocked.

This is how I cope when walking down the street, I chant "Barbaric idiots" to myself and hold my head high knowing who is of better class.  ))

I very seldom let anything bother me, but this has.  Soon I hope I will find a way to let the steam go.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we are all different.

Sorry.  Just venting.

Hi, I just can't stop myself from writing here, since I feel you are describing exactly the same situations that I have to deal with every single day in this country. Even though you all live in Tripoli (which is much more "civilized" in comparison to small towns / cities) I see that you women deal with the same conflicts that I deal with here in Benghazi.

Here people are even worse, especially the young boys. Even the little ones look at you as if you were an alien and then start following and saying stupid things after you. They don't care if you go together with your husband or with any male “bodyguard”.

Not even in the Supermarket can you (as women) walk with certain freedom to do your groceries in a quiet manner, which is a basic thing you can expect to accomplish with certain normality, out of the question talking about going shopping alone (clothes, make up, etc.) 

I feel myself in a kind of harassment all the time and I have to say that I have adapted my wardrobe to this country, walking with long Tunic/Blouses (with no décolleté and long sleeves) just I don't use the scarf on my hair, but no matter all the security measurements you take, they find all the time a way to tease you, just because you are a woman and a foreigner.

Clansman I will send you a PM with a special request.

Thank you folks.

Have you all Sea angel, Amelie, Clansman and very push Genie thought for a second what kind of suffering foregin pple get in your countries? No you have not coz you did not need to.
I have lived in England for 8 years, although like many of my friends we were studying and paying money not going to make money, we had a lot of trouble with locals especially the dark Arab looking friends. They and their wives have been verbally abused in many cases; racist comments were on a daily basis on buses and other pubic areas. My friend's wife was attached in a park and her bag was snatched and she went to the hospital for few days coz of the shock.
another friend was attached in a park because he was trying to protect his little 5 yrs old girl from a dog that attacked her and was on top of the little girl, as her father was trying to hit that dog and get it off his daughter he was attacked by locals and accused of mistreating the animals.

I personally suffered from many racist comments plenty of times, we had kids missing with our car and shouting at us in front of our house just because we were foreigners.
I never judged the whole population according to the rough less educated class who think that every foreigner in their country is there to seek asylum and get benefit.

Be realistic, this does not happen only in Libya, this can happen anywhere.

I am sorry that you or anybody has to put up with any form of racism or intolerance wherever you may be in the world, it is WRONG to judge anybody by the colour of their skin or their beliefs, but we are discussing what goes on in Libya, NOT how it compares to other countries (which apart from the treatment of women and the driving, Libya compares VERY favourably to most countries I have been to). Accept the fact that your country has some problems,try and rectify them, but also embrace the many good aspects of life in Libya.

clansman, as well as all other expats who are having a bad time here in Libya, I am sorry to hear all that and ashamed of what are these new teenage kids doing, it is mainly out of boredom and empty brains, no hoppies, no careers, nothings to do apart from missing around. Unfortunately, foreigners are easy target to miss with. But what annoyed me is the way this issue was brought up as if it happens only in Libya.

mancunian wrote:

and other pubic areas.

was attached in a park

In Libyan Jamahiriay, English speaks you

mancunian wrote:

Amelie2010 wrote:

Sea Angel wrote:

Yes, even kids do it too.  Thanks for sharing all your experiences. It makes me feel better.  I know we are all in the same boat.  I am usually so good at turning not so good experiences into good, but having a real hard time.  My friends would be shocked.

This is how I cope when walking down the street, I chant "Barbaric idiots" to myself and hold my head high knowing who is of better class.  ))

I very seldom let anything bother me, but this has.  Soon I hope I will find a way to let the steam go.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we are all different.

Sorry.  Just venting.

Hi, I just can't stop myself from writing here, since I feel you are describing exactly the same situations that I have to deal with every single day in this country. Even though you all live in Tripoli (which is much more "civilized" in comparison to small towns / cities) I see that you women deal with the same conflicts that I deal with here in Benghazi.

Here people are even worse, especially the young boys. Even the little ones look at you as if you were an alien and then start following and saying stupid things after you. They don't care if you go together with your husband or with any male “bodyguard”.

Not even in the Supermarket can you (as women) walk with certain freedom to do your groceries in a quiet manner, which is a basic thing you can expect to accomplish with certain normality, out of the question talking about going shopping alone (clothes, make up, etc.) 

I feel myself in a kind of harassment all the time and I have to say that I have adapted my wardrobe to this country, walking with long Tunic/Blouses (with no décolleté and long sleeves) just I don't use the scarf on my hair, but no matter all the security measurements you take, they find all the time a way to tease you, just because you are a woman and a foreigner.

Clansman I will send you a PM with a special request.

Thank you folks.

Have you all Sea angel, Amelie, Clansman and very push Genie thought for a second what kind of suffering foregin pple get in your countries? No you have not coz you did not need to.
I have lived in England for 8 years, although like many of my friends we were studying and paying money not going to make money, we had a lot of trouble with locals especially the dark Arab looking friends. They and their wives have been verbally abused in many cases; racist comments were on a daily basis on buses and other pubic areas. My friend's wife was attached in a park and her bag was snatched and she went to the hospital for few days coz of the shock.
another friend was attached in a park because he was trying to protect his little 5 yrs old girl from a dog that attacked her and was on top of the little girl, as her father was trying to hit that dog and get it off his daughter he was attacked by locals and accused of mistreating the animals.

I personally suffered from many racist comments plenty of times, we had kids missing with our car and shouting at us in front of our house just because we were foreigners.
I never judged the whole population according to the rough less educated class who think that every foreigner in their country is there to seek asylum and get benefit.

Be realistic, this does not happen only in Libya, this can happen anywhere.

Crap, man, we all know that.  We are talking about Libya right now.  Go find your own forum if you do not like our conversations.

Geez, you can take a Libyan out of Libya, but cannot take Libya out of a Libyan.

I hate being mean, but I have wasted my breath (knowing they will not get it) long enough with these idgets. 

mancunian wrote:

clansman, as well as all other expats who are having a bad time here in Libya, I am sorry to hear all that and ashamed of what are these new teenage kids doing, it is mainly out of boredom and empty brains, no hoppies, no careers, nothings to do apart from missing around. Unfortunately, foreigners are easy target to miss with. But what annoyed me is the way this issue was brought up as if it happens only in Libya.

NO ONE SAID IT HAPPENS ONLY IN LIBYA.  WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LIBYA.  WE KNOW IT HAPPENS OTHER PLACES TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychology lesson for the day:  This is what happens when people know that what is spoken is the truth.

Mancunian, we, on our "EXPAT" forum where you should not even be, are talking about things to help us cope with whatever we need to cope with.  If you stay, then try to learn from it.  Maybe you can make a difference to help this country.

mancunian wrote:

clansman, as well as all other expats who are having a bad time here in Libya, I am sorry to hear all that and ashamed of what are these new teenage kids doing, it is mainly out of boredom and empty brains, no hoppies, no careers, nothings to do apart from missing around. Unfortunately, foreigners are easy target to miss with. But what annoyed me is the way this issue was brought up as if it happens only in Libya.

People get hassled in just about every country in the world, it is definitely NOT unique to Libya my friend. I think the main issue here, is that if you have never lived in the Middle East before, and are a western woman, used to being able to walk about without feeling you are an exhibit in a zoo, then it can seem threatening, although I would guess that the majority of the time their is no physical threat at all (unless you include young guys stroking women's hair !!!).

Sea Angel wrote:

mancunian wrote:

clansman, as well as all other expats who are having a bad time here in Libya, I am sorry to hear all that and ashamed of what are these new teenage kids doing, it is mainly out of boredom and empty brains, no hoppies, no careers, nothings to do apart from missing around. Unfortunately, foreigners are easy target to miss with. But what annoyed me is the way this issue was brought up as if it happens only in Libya.

NO ONE SAID IT HAPPENS ONLY IN LIBYA.  WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LIBYA.  WE KNOW IT HAPPENS OTHER PLACES TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychology lesson for the day:  This is what happens when people know that what is spoken is the truth.

Mancunian, we, on our "EXPAT" forum where you should not even be, are talking about things to help us cope with whatever we need to cope with.  If you stay, then try to learn from it.  Maybe you can make a difference to help this country.

A bit harsh I think Sea Angel, we get a LOT of valuable pieces of information from Libyans on this forum, and debate is healthy, the blinkered "Libyans never do anything bad, and our country is PERFECT" brigade are the ones that are irritating.

Sea Angel wrote:

Crap, man, we all know that.  We are talking about Libya right now.  Go find your own forum if you do not like our conversations.

Geez, you can take a Libyan out of Libya, but cannot take Libya out of a Libyan.

I hate being mean, but I have wasted my breath (knowing they will not get it) long enough with these idgets. 

LOL... An angry dolphin!

But really, that's how they are. And he said, what? eight years? And I speculate most, if not all were spent as a 'graduate' student??!

This is a perfect example of what I said about most Libyan students abroad in post #37 here

I guess all eight years were spent cooking مبكبة (white pasta with greasy canned tomato sauce) and staying up all night playing شكبة (cards) and running away from scary English dogs

Sea Angel wrote:

but I have wasted my breath (knowing they will not get it) long enough with these idgets. 

Here's a good use for your breath. Breathe on your glasses and then polish them up with a silk handkerchief.

Then, you might be able to see things through slightly less clouded and distorted lenses.

Get a grip, girl. You're in danger of becoming another grumpy old woman ... and we've got quite enough of those already.