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IMPORTANT NEW CHANGES FOR THOSE APPLYING FOR PERMANENT VISAS

IMPORTANT NEW CHANGES FOR THOSE APPLYING FOR PERMANENT VISAS

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EDIT OF JULY 17, 2015
INFORMATION REGARDING NEW FEE STRUCTURE FOR PERMANENCY, REGISTRATION AND CÉDULA DE IDENTITDADE ESTRANGEIRO

Without much in the way of public notice, the Brazilian government has significantly increased all fees relating to the permanency process, registration and issuance of the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro. The new fees and their associated "Código da Receita STN" numbers that you will need for the process are as follows:

140066 PEDIDO DE PERMANENCIA     R$168,13
140082 Registro de Estrangeiros/Restabelecimento de Registro R$106.45
140120 Carteira de Estrangeiro de Primeira Via R$204.77

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As of September 1, 2014 a major change goes into effect for those applying for a VIPER Permanent Visa (within Brazil) based upon marriage to a Brazilian, having a Brazilian child, stable union, family reunion or based on the MERCOSUL Agreement.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE WILL NO LONGER BE A PUBLICATION IN THE NATIONAL GAZETTE (Diário  Oficial da União – DOU) REGARDING THE PERMANENCY PROCESS.

For those who have begun their process prior to September 1st , there is a listing of processes in the Federal Police website showing the visas that have already been granted. The file is in Adobe PDF format and there were thousands of names on the list shown for September 1 and 2, so your case may already have been decided. Check the list (link below) for your process. The list is in alphabetical order BY FIRST NAME.

http://www.dpf.gov.br/servicos/estrange … 202014.pdf

If your name appears on this list then your VIPER Permanent Visa has been granted, you should enter the Policia Federal website (link below) follow all the steps to apply for your Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro, schedule your visit, print off the form and GRUs, pay the GRUs and report to the Federal Police in your city at the time and date you scheduled. Note, you must do so within 90 days from the date your visa was granted, if an appointment is not available within that 90 days, then do all the above and go to the Federal Police without an appointment,  they will slot you into a time.

http://www.dpf.gov.br/servicos/estrange … -e-anistia

This change came about because of a Ministry of Justice directive that creates a national database for Vital Statistics and a nationally uniform document for BIRTH, MARRIAGE and DEATH CERTIFICATES which may also be authenticated electronically.

Actually, this may have the overall effect of speeding up the entire VIPER Permanent Visa process, since in the past for those who applied based on marriage, a Brazilian child or on a stable union (in Cartório) the document they submitted had to be verified by the Federal Police at the individual Cartório involved. In most cases this added several months to the processing time of the visa. Only time will tell if this really will be the case, but we can certainly hope that it is true. Certainly it can’t make things any worse than they’ve been up to now.

Cheers,
James     expat.com Experts Team

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Edit Oct. 2, 2014

So, just how is the new process supposed to work anyway?

Well according to the Policia Federal, if you are applying for "Permanência Definitiva" based on marriage / having a Brazilian child / stable union (which has existed at least 1 year) / family reunion / MERCOSUL Agreement then under the new rules it is now a simplified ONE STEP process.

If your paperwork is ALL in order then you are immediately granted permanency and you are only going to wait for the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro to be produced. If your paperwork isn't completely in order they will tell you so and you have 10 days in which to correct any problems. If there are any problems that you cannot correct then your case will be forwarded to the Ministry of Justice for a decision the same way that applications were all handled in the past.

Now, you must prepare the VIPER application (Pedido de Permanência Definitiva) and the application for the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro - CIE all at the same time. You do that at the DPF website www.dpf.gov.br

You will need to fill out both application forms online, schedule your visit to the Federal Police, generate and pay 3 GRUs, one for Code 140066 Pedido de permanência definitiva R$102,00; another for 140082 Registro de Estrangeiro R$64,58 and finally one for 140120 Carteira de Identidade Estrangeiro Primeira via R$124,23.

Once all that is done (provided everything is in order and accepted by the DPF) you are then entitled to permanency and your CIE will be processed. They say within 60 days (well we will wait to see if that part of the bargain they can keep up).

As far as everything else goes, the documents required and the necessity to have them legalized by the Consulado-Geral do Brasil, authenticated by your home country Ministry of Foreign Affairs / State Dept. / Embassy or Consulate, have them translated, etc., all remain unchanged.

There will no longer be a home visit in order to "verify" that a couple/child exists; this has been one of the reasons that the process took so long in the past. Now the probatory documents are going to be accepted at face value. (Isn't finally being trusted a wonderful thing?)

So, at long last this process seems to have been brought into full conformity to Art. 226 of the Constitution of the Federated Republic of Brazil, which guarantees "Protection of the family unit".

Nice to see my name isn't on the list.

What did you do with your process anyway, Matt? Did you cancel it or just not persue it any farther?

My name is on the list  :) but what GRU forms do i need print and pay

Great news John!

The GRU codes you need (2 of them) are:

140082 - Registro de Estrangeiro    R$64,58
140120 - Carteira de Estrangeiro de Primeira Via   R$124,23

You enter those code numbers in the field "Código da Receita STN". The "Unidade Arrecadadora" (drop down menu) will be the DPF Superintendência Regional in your city (or that has jurisdiction over your city - in smaller towns that don't have their own DPF Dept. de Estrangeiro).

Regarding the Registro de Estrangeiro, even if you've already registered in the past you'll have to print off and pay this again, the Feds insist that it gets paid (consider it renewal) before they'll process the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro.

Note: Once you've printed off the GRUs you must pay them at a bank within 7 days or the bank can't accept payment, so you'd have to print them off again.

Cheers,
James

Thanks William,
This process is now nearing its end 2 years later. Matt has made many comments about the bureaucracy of Brazil and as well you are familiar with it.  So 2 years after is not too long to wait compared to others and the stories I have heard 5 to 6 years and only to find out that they must renew the process all over again.  The other thing about paying for government services here Fees. Etc., is the need go to a bank or Caxia office to pay them after you print a form of course. I am lucky in that respect I have a computer, internet access and a printer. Most others who want to do this must go to a Cyber Café.

The other thing I have that is the most value to me is my wonderful Brazilian wife. She is the reason for me being here, my purpose in life to make her happy and her never ending help with the language. Her devotion to me the most valuable thing I treasure and would not trade for anything including living in the US if it meant I had to leave her.

I just came on here to post about this.

My application went in today. They said that there are new changes and it will only take 2-3 months to get my permanent visa (if all my information is correct on my application). She also said that they won't do a home visit.

We'll see if this is true

Well Joe, if that is true then it really will be "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" bigger than the first man to set foot on the moon.

I'd take anything that the Policia Federal say about the immigration process with a VERY LARGE grain of salt, but we can always hope!

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Yeah, I'm a bit skeptical. The lady told me to come back in 2 months and my card may be available to be picked up.

I'll for sure post an update

JohnC :

Thanks William,
This process is now nearing its end 2 years later. Matt has made many comments about the bureaucracy of Brazil and as well you are familiar with it.  So 2 years after is not too long to wait compared to others and the stories I have heard 5 to 6 years and only to find out that they must renew the process all over again.  The other thing about paying for government services here Fees. Etc., is the need go to a bank or Caxia office to pay them after you print a form of course. I am lucky in that respect I have a computer, internet access and a printer. Most others who want to do this must go to a Cyber Café.

The other thing I have that is the most value to me is my wonderful Brazilian wife. She is the reason for me being here, my purpose in life to make her happy and her never ending help with the language. Her devotion to me the most valuable thing I treasure and would not trade for anything including living in the US if it meant I had to leave her.

John,

I am glad you are surviving it. It was not worth it for me. The insanity that occurs down there is beyond comprehension. I am happy you are doing well and wish your wife and you all the best. I will be down there soon. Not sure when, but will be going to Rio in November.

wjwoodward :

What did you do with your process anyway, Matt? Did you cancel it or just not persue it any farther?

LOL, I called the DPF/AM and told them to cancel it, and that I could not tolerate their country and their bureaucracy so they can cancel my protocol and I wished them well in their crusade oppressing their citizens. (I was drunk) And those were my exact words.

Too funny!!! It's exactly what I've wanted to tell them (using much cruder language however than you used), but since that would have meant leaving my wife and child I didn't.

I think for you it was a very wise move however.

Dears, I am waiting for the release of my parents' process since Dec. 2012. And their names are not on the list. I went to the policia federal office of Campinas personally, as per my conversation with the officer, the list of granted visa is keeping updating. It means, if the process already reached DPF Brasilia before 1st Sept, but your name is still not on the list yet, you need to keep visiting the website of policia federal and check for the most updated list. As soon as the name appears on the list, continue the process following the new procedure mentioned in above posts at the policia federal office in your city.
But as there is no more updating in the past week, I am concerned.
Anyone in the same situation? Any suggestions?
Thanks

Since the new rules have just gone into effect as of September 1st. nobody knows yet how often this list is going to get updated, whether it will be daily, weekly or monthly. Nobody has even stated the frequency of updates, so I would suggest that you simply visit the site and keep checking from-time-to-time.

Sooner or later the Federal Police will get their act together (or at least we can hope they will), cause they never get things right the first time around.

All right, thanks James, just for reference, the police officer suggested me to check at least twice per week, and mentioned that there would be a validation of 90 days after the publishing for the applicant to start the new phase.

BTW, I marvelled how great the change was at Campinas policia federal office, it was not simply a new office building, the officers are now much nicer to us gringers. Comparing to my terrible experience in the past, I had a really nice conversation and felt more comfortable during my last visit there.

That's correct, once the VIPER Permanent Visa has been granted the applicant must report to the Federal Police within 90 days to register in the Registro Nacional de Estrangeiros - RNE and apply for their Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro - CIE. In fact, it has always been that way.

I'm really beginning to wonder EXACTLY what prompted this major change, it seems to me that it's a lot more than the fact that the Ministry of Justice has introduced a new (universal) document for Birth, Death and Marriage Certificates which can be verified electronically, while that is part of the reason.

To my way of thinking it appears that somebody has finally woken up to the fact that once you have married a Brazilian citizen, or have a Brazilian born child, you have a Constitutional right for permanency in this country. Art. 226 of the Federal Constitution guarantees the protection and preservation of the "family unit". This is exactly why that in the past, visa status had to be "regular" (i.e. current) to apply for other types of visas, but if one was applying based on marriage or on a Brazilian child, it didn't matter if your visa was in an overstay situation or not; the Federal Police were required to accept your VIPER application anyway. That was also clearly spelled out in the Ministry of Justice website section about "Permanency".

In fact, the whole bureaucracy surround VIPER applications based on marriage, prole, stable union and family reunion were simply absurd and wholly unnecessary given the Constitutional protection that Art. 226 clearly offers. I recall a recent case where one of our members got married while his VITUR visa was still current, the stay expired a couple of days afterwards and he applied for his VIPER one week after the marriage. The Delegado at the Federal Police refused to accept his application and told him he'd have to leave the country and apply for the VIPER in his home country, which is absolutely incorrect. A quick conversation that I had with his lawyer, pointing out to her the Constitutional protection, the MoJ website statement and explaining the purpose of a "Mandado de Segurança" (Federal Court Injunction) used in cases where Constitutional rights are being infringed, resolved the issue quite quickly. The Delegado did an immediate 180º about face and allowed our member to apply the very next day. What surprised me even more than the Delegado's lack of knowledge of the law was this poor fellow's lawyer's lack of knowledge too. I mean really, if I hadn't clued her in on the way things work the poor schlock would have been back home by now and for no reason at all.

Anyway, it remains to be seen at this early date just how the new rules will improve things and streamline the whole process. I would think from the number of cases that they approved (on the list) in ONLY 2 DAYS when the folks at the MoJ have told me personally that they process 2000 applications for permanency a month, it should be a significant improvement. Hell they seem to have been able to approve almost that many in just those 2 days. While I'd really like to think that this change is a sign of a permanent and significant improvement, I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude; or like the Brazilians say, "Pago pra ver". (I'll pay to see it).

My process also started in December of 2012 as a matter of fact 1 day before my second 90 days were set to expire and had it expired I fully intended on staying and using the Constitutional law on it. but that said I think my date was that the protocol arrived at MJ in On April 30th 2014 very shortly after the police visit to verify that I was Married to my wife and living with her. The date of my approval was Sept 4th 2014 almost 6 months after the police visit hope these dates help somewhat so maybe your approval is coming soon.  I am also thankful for this website as it has helped me quite a bit with factual and current information needed to navigate the bureaucracy of Brazil. I am not interested in causing any problems in Brazil but only in having my life here with my wife.

Forms printed and paid. date scheduled for Monday the 15th at 8:00 am I hope I dont have to wait too long as I have an appointment. I wonder now how long it will take to get my RNE card after this any Idea?

I wonder if they will have it on your appointment?

I turned in my application for permanent visa yesterday. They said my permanent visa AND my card will be available in 2-3 months.

Hope they have improved the timeframe for issuing the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro - CIE (often called the RNE) from the time I applied to the time I finally got it was almost a year. That's on top of the years of waiting for the VIPER.

wjwoodward :

Too funny!!! It's exactly what I've wanted to tell them (using much cruder language however than you used), but since that would have meant leaving my wife and child I didn't.

I think for you it was a very wise move however.

I forgot to add the DPF agent ask if I was in Brazil and I remember saying to her,"Why? are you going to come and arrest me? Sorry, sugar, I am in the US better luck next time - but go ahead and file you 50 page report on my civil disobedience," and hung up the phone.

Stop Matt, I'm gonna wet my pants!!! That's just so damned funny.

You're absolutely right though, she probably would have come and arrested you if you were in Brazil. They love to arrest people on the grossly overused "Desacato de Autoridade" charge. (Essentially like a judge saying you're in contempt). Swear at a cop, argue with a cop, tell him he's a jerk or even that his shoelaces are untied here in Brazil and you can get arrested for Desacato.

I've been threatened with a Desacato charge a couple of times by the Feds, but I tell them politely that I'm fully aware of my rights under Decreto/Lei 6815 and the Constitution of the Federated Republic of Brazil.... then I just as politely ask them if THEY are, that really gets them to cool their jets quickly.

Hi   I  am  living  in  Brazil , married  to  an  Brazilian  I  have  applied  to  live  here  . I  started  the process in   February  2014.   Changes were made in the process  1st  September  2014  , my  name is not in the published  paper  . I  have  the protocol  .What  should I  do  now?

Hello josjes2000,

First of all have the Federal Police already conducted their routine home visit (sindicância)? If not the process is still with them and absolutely nothing further will be done until they've made the visit. If you've moved that is a big problem, you're required by law to report any change of address to the Federal Police within 30 days.

Have you checked the list of some 6,500 names that I linked to in the first posting to this topic thread? It's listed in alphabetical order by FIRST NAME. If your name appears there then your visa has already been granted and you should visit the DPF website to schedule, request and pay for your registration and Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro.

Have you been regularly checking the Ministry of Justice website "Consulta Processo" to see if there has been any activity on your process?

If none of the above have produced any results, just be patient and keep checking. This process has taken several years for many people, these changes are just new as of September 1st and you can't expect miracles just yet.

usmc_mv :
wjwoodward :

Too funny!!! It's exactly what I've wanted to tell them (using much cruder language however than you used), but since that would have meant leaving my wife and child I didn't.

I think for you it was a very wise move however.

I forgot to add the DPF agent ask if I was in Brazil and I remember saying to her,"Why? are you going to come and arrest me? Sorry, sugar, I am in the US better luck next time - but go ahead and file you 50 page report on my civil disobedience," and hung up the phone.

You are coming back to Brazil for a short while they do have your passport number if you applied for a protocol. They could very well flag that passport when you return for that assignment in Brazil if they wanted to and make your return a little miserable for you at the POE. I have learned a long time ago never to burn bridges as sometimes it comes back to bite you in the arse. Who knows what they can do after all they are the Federal Police and could have put that info into the system

Thank  you very much  ,  I have   checked   the list and my  name is not on it .  Today i am  leaving  the country  for  two  weeks   ,  hopefully  I don't  have  any trouble returning  .  Again  thank  you for  all  your  help  .  John

Thanks so much for this wjwd! You're soooo helpful, it's amazing! My name isnt on the list, even though my entrada was made in Sept 2013, and i have also gone through the home visiting thingy last May 2014. That was for the união estável. We'll see....

However now that we're married I'll soon be applying for the Visa on basis of marriage with Brazilian -- what changes am I to expect in this regard? Thanks!

wjwoodward :

Great news John!

The GRU codes you need (2 of them) are:

140082 - Registro de Estrangeiro    R$64,58
140120 - Carteira de Estrangeiro de Primeira Via   R$124,23

You enter those code numbers in the field "Código da Receita STN". The "Unidade Arrecadadora" (drop down menu) will be the DPF Superintendência Regional in your city (or that has jurisdiction over your city - in smaller towns that don't have their own DPF Dept. de Estrangeiro).

Regarding the Registro de Estrangeiro, even if you've already registered in the past you'll have to print off and pay this again, the Feds insist that it gets paid (consider it renewal) before they'll process the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro.

Note: Once you've printed off the GRUs you must pay them at a bank within 7 days or the bank can't accept payment, so you'd have to print them off again.

Cheers,
James

You were wrong about the forms needed It is totally ridiculous but they want all of the documents I originally submitted with the protocol. I think I am being given the run a round I have no choice but to comply
the list of documents they want are as follows

1. Form 154 the form I filled in with the info already
2. Copy of all the pages of my passport ( this was originally submitted for the protocol but they want it again of course notarized)
3. Copy of my marriage document in Brazil ( again this was originally given for the protocol but again they want a copy notarized)
4. Copy of my wife's Brazil ID ( this was submitted originally also but again they want a copy notarized)
5. Declaration that we are not separated copied and notarized ( this also was originally submitted )
6. Declaration from the Police (FBI) that I have no criminal record ( this also was originally submitted and fortunately I had two copies of this because they want it again oh yes believe it or not they also want this notarized)
7. also they want GRU forms 140066, 140082, 140120 ( the DPF website is currently down so I am unable to get the GRU 140066)
8. and last but not least 2  - 3x4 photographs taken recently

Maybe all of this because I am an American citizen and they are abusing me for this. I feel I am being discriminated against because of this.
If I provide this information and there is still a problem I will go to the courts with a lawyer and have the judge order them to do this

John,

If you're talking about the list on the Ministry of Justice website consulta processos called "Pendências", no you don't have to provide them all over again. They list all the documents that you've already provided and they do that on EVERYBODY's process. I can't for the life of me figure out why they do it this way either. It confused the Hell out of me when my process went through and I asked a lawyer about it, he told me they do it all the time. Just ignore it and apply for your CIE and RNE. And the only two GRUs that you have to pay are the two that I already mentioned, Registro and Carteira de Identidade, that's all.

Cheers,
James

They would not accept the forms said I needed all these forms again even with the approval I think I am being given the runaround and that this is to harass me. even though I gave them no reason to do that. If you want I can give you a copy of the paper they gave me. I believe they are now in violation of their own laws and are denying me my rights as stated in their constitution the only other recourse I have is to comply or to get a lawyer and take it to court

They're full of BS, tell them that you're going to contact a lawyer and ask him to apply for a "Mandado de Segurança" compelling them to accept your application for the Registro and CIE, because you've already submitted all of the documents and your visa is published in the DOU already. They can't refuse it violates Art. 226 of the Constitution.

By the way, are you listed on Skype as being from Inverness, FLA? I want to talk to you about this.

wjwoodward :

They're full of BS, tell them that you're going to contact a lawyer and ask him to apply for a "Mandado de Segurança" compelling them to accept your application for the Registro and CIE, because you've already submitted all of the documents and your visa is published in the DOU already. They can't refuse it violates Art. 226 of the Constitution.

By the way, are you listed on Skype as being from Inverness, FLA? I want to talk to you about this.

yes Inverness is correct havent used that account in a while as I use my gmail phone more

wjwoodward :

They're full of BS, tell them that you're going to contact a lawyer and ask him to apply for a "Mandado de Segurança" compelling them to accept your application for the Registro and CIE, because you've already submitted all of the documents and your visa is published in the DOU already. They can't refuse it violates Art. 226 of the Constitution.

By the way, are you listed on Skype as being from Inverness, FLA? I want to talk to you about this.

I am considering paying the additional fee even though they are wrong and having all the documents copied notarized again in the interest of expediency as bureaucrats in Brazil will never admit they made a mistake and if you point it out to them they become belligerent" how dare you question their infallibility"   to them I am just a gringo and they have the right to take advantage of me because of their imagined power and position. I hate to say it but that is the attitude I get from all government bureaucrats here in Manaus.

JohnC :
wjwoodward :

They're full of BS, tell them that you're going to contact a lawyer and ask him to apply for a "Mandado de Segurança" compelling them to accept your application for the Registro and CIE, because you've already submitted all of the documents and your visa is published in the DOU already. They can't refuse it violates Art. 226 of the Constitution.

By the way, are you listed on Skype as being from Inverness, FLA? I want to talk to you about this.

I am considering paying the additional fee even though they are wrong and having all the documents copied notarized again in the interest of expediency as bureaucrats in Brazil will never admit they made a mistake and if you point it out to them they become belligerent" how dare you question their infallibility"   to them I am just a gringo and they have the right to take advantage of me because of their imagined power and position. I hate to say it but that is the attitude I get from all government bureaucrats here in Manaus.

Hence why I left. The people enjoy taking it up the #$#@, the government enjoys giving it and nothing is ever done about it.

I do not miss it, and truly feel sorry for anyone that has to go through it.

wjwoodward :

They're full of BS, tell them that you're going to contact a lawyer and ask him to apply for a "Mandado de Segurança" compelling them to accept your application for the Registro and CIE, because you've already submitted all of the documents and your visa is published in the DOU already. They can't refuse it violates Art. 226 of the Constitution.

By the way, are you listed on Skype as being from Inverness, FLA? I want to talk to you about this.

James, it is Manaus. They are in their bubble. They probably haven't received the smoke signals yet from Brasilia. They probably are on page 12 of 3,000 on the name list and haven't even received the new legislation yet because the Correios can't find the address as the address for the DPF/AM is listed incorrect on every government web-site and the CEP is even incorrect.

John, they clearly do not know what is going on, obviously - maybe it is best to wait a month or two to go instead of getting all worked up over it. Don't be like me. It isn't worth giving yourself a stroke over something that you can't control, something that will never change, and something that they find normal and socially acceptable. I am sure you are starting to find it to some degree tolerable as well. I know my patience has increased since moving back stateside.

I just got an e-mail back from the Ministry of Justice and they have practically thrown their hands up in the air and referred it back to the DPF of Manaus. They apparently are good at writing laws that no one follows then when it comes to taking responsibility they defer it back to the agency causing the problem to settle it. The Brazilian way do nothing and hope it goes away. I don't have the luxury of waiting a month or two I am on day 78 of it expiring and having to do it all over again

Hi John,

The ONLY thing that matters as far as Federal Police are concerned regarding permanency is the publication in the DOU. Once your name was published in the DOU, and you will note that it says that you have the RIGHT to permanency, they aren't supposed to refuse to register you and to issue the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro. The Federal Police ARE NOT immigrations, they only act FOR immigrations (i.e. the Ministry of Justice and/or Conselho Nacional de Imigrações - CNig).  Your name and process number were published, that's because the visa was GRANTED. If they can't wrap their heads around that simple fact then get a lawyer to immediately bring on an application in the Tribunal Regional Federal - TRF in Manuas for a Mandado de Segurança which will compel the Federal Police to register you and issue a CIE. They can't ask for any further documents, especially ones you've already submitted with the original application, the only things you need are the filled out form and the paid GRUs. Refusal to register you and issue the CIE is a violation of Art. 226 of the Federal Constitution and that is exactly what the Mandado de Segurança is intended to resolve, denial of Constitutional rights. You don't need any proof even it's not necessary, the violation is clear, there is no trial, a judge simply looks at the application, and issues a "desk order", Mandado de Segurança in a matter of minutes.

Cheers,
James

I have a friend here who has a very good friend that is a detective at the DPF here in Manaus. He has returned today and said the only thing I need are the pages in my passport copied that include only the Visa and my picture passport page and to have that notarized as it is a copy, Secondly the sincre form 154 and a copy of the DOU page notarized. and 3rd  - (2) 3x4 photos as here in Manaus they don't have the machine that can take a photo and place it directly on the card the plastic blank for the new ID cards they still use the paper form. Plus the 2 GRU's you mentioned not the other one she insisted on. It appears the girl didn't know what she was doing or talking about and gave me the wrong information as to what was needed. This person has been there a while at least 2 years since I've been going there and she should know it. But I guess they don't train them well or it's whatever she feels like doing.that day.

John,

Even your detective friend is wrong, but for Manaus that's not surprising. The DOU page doesn't have to be notarized, since it is an official document in the first place and not only that but it's printed by the Imprensa Naçional (National Printer). Hell, even laws in this bloody country don't take legal effect until they are published there, and they sure as Hell don't have to have them notarized first!!! In fact, to tell the absolute truth, you don't even need to take them the page, just tell them the date and page because they can pull it up on the Imprensa Nacional website, or better still look it up in one of the numerous copies of the DOU that get delivered to every DPF Delegacia every single day of the week which is BEYOND dispute. When I got my Cédula here in Macaé (a little postage stamp of a city compared to the size of Manaus) they already knew the page number and date of publication. They didn't even ask to see my passport and actually only layed eyes on it when I insisted that they STAMP it to indicate that I was PERMANENT. You should also insist that Manaus DPF stamp your passport "Registrado como PERMANENTE" since if you travel a lot some airlines don't know what the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro really is, they don't understand that it's equivalent to the US Green Card at least the stamp in the passport in conjunction with the Cédula can't then be disputed.

Why in Hell would they need your passport visa page and photo page AGAIN, since you already submitted that with the "Pedido de Permanência Definitiva com base em cônjuge brasileira"?

Also, they don't produce the Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro in Manaus, not even in the entire state of Amazonas... they're only produced in Brasília by the "Casa de Moeda" and they take the photo you provide and digitize it and they're the ones who print it onto the plastic Cédula.

I don't know what those guys at the DPF- Manaus are smoking, but it sure as sh*t isn't something that's natural to the Amazon Rainforest!!! They're so far out of wack with the rest of the DPF that maybe they're working for a different country... who knows?

I don't know but at this point I will do what I need to to get it done as I have more important things to worry about but it is important that this be out of the way so I can at least concentrate on making money and not have to be worrying every few months to deal with the bureaucracy here. If it gets it out of the way so be it.  This is just a nuisance that has to be dealt with and that is why the priority after I get my RNE and CIE I won't have to worry about renewing it because of the law here that says people over 60 don't have to I am 61. Of course I could be wrong on that too I think I read that somewhere on one of the official web sites

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