Translating This Article

Google translate can give you a good idea:

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Hi Dan,
thanks for reminding, I have forgotten about using the google translator

hmm i guess it's about some way Hanoi and in the northern region of Vietnam business stores discriminates and classify people based on their appearance?

duskwinter wrote:

hmm i guess it's about some way Hanoi and in the northern region of Vietnam business stores discriminates and classify people based on their appearance?

Yeah, you are right. In the North, the appearance is very important.

Hmm, i see. That's new to me, learnt a new thing today! Thank you for your clarification

People in North are difficult than South. They want to be respected. If you go to restaurant and say something bad, not polite, they even don't want to sell anything for you. Sometimes they don't need money hihi. So, when you want to book something, you must add some polite words in your sentence "please", "would you like"... In Vietnam we have this proverb:
Lời nói chẳng mất tiền mua
Lựa lời mà nói cho vừa lòng nhau.
It means you should always say something polite to others. You must think carefully before talking.
And people here can't speak English well. Some people can speak well, they go abroad to study. That's why foreigners don't feel comfortable when they live here. People can't speak English and money is not important with them, so they don't want to sell... They're not friendly .
I lived in Hanoi for 8 years. And my hometown is near Hanoi. My mom was very difficult to me, taught me everything when I was a girl. She wanted me become a woman who is confident, polite... I was afraid of her when I was a child. But now I want to say thanks 10000000 times to her, hihi.

Im the South, people don't care like that. Services is better, because they want to sell more and more. They are very easy. You don't need to add some polite words, just: "one phở bò" is ok. If you say this in North, maybe you must come to others restaurants to eat other foods hehehehe.

If you understand culture, everything is ok. People from North can live in South, they can have everything because they are hard working, always save money for future. But people from South can't/ don't like to live in North, they usually hate ones from North, hic hic hic.





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ngattt wrote:

People in North are difficult than South. They want to be respected. ... And people here can't speak English well. Some people can speak well, they go abroad to study. That's why foreigners don't feel comfortable when they live here. People can't speak English and money is not important with them, so they don't want to sell... They're not friendly.

There seems to be more than just a cultural chasm between the north and south and much more than just food!

I usually have people visiting me start their trip in Ha Noi (and the north) and work their way south. Without exception, comments are less enthusiastic about the north than the south.

The northerners seem to have the attitude that they are 'owed', that they are entitled to things ... maybe from the fact they were bombed so heavily in the American War in VietNam. Hanoians also consider Ha Noi, and themselves, to be the cradle of Vietnamese culture and that most all others are less Vietnamese!

Once I worked on a contract in Ha Noi for six months. My routine was the same six days each week. Leave hotel, walk past school and get breakfast at the same restaurant.

Only ONE child ever said Hi!, to me. Compare that to HCM where children greet Foreigners with enthusiasm. And the waitress treated me as a newcomer every day, even though my order rarely changed!

It's different in the northern countryside, they are more welcoming.

After VietNam was reunited, the Central Highlands were invaded by populations from the north as an attempt by the government of the day to counteract the 'revisionist' attitudes of the inhabitants. Even today, one or two generations after their emigration, it is easy to detect a 'northerner', and even children of northerners, by their attitudes.

I learned some English words from you, Jaitch! Thank you!

A famous actor said, because the weather is more extreme in the North, so people here are more difficult. And North near China, and something in history (I cant write it clearly in English, sorry), so Northerners are affected by China.

With Hanoian, I hear that, nowadays many Hanoian lived in HCM city or went abroad. If someone is Hanoian, she/he is very polite, they always said 'sorry' and 'thank you'... (like foreigners). I saw some Hanoians, even I felt guilty because I wasnt polite like them . Nowaday some 'Hanoians' were not born in Hanoi. They were from many countryside, they have money to buy house there, and they think they can become Hanoians. No! I think they need much more time to become Hanoians.

Northerners are less friendly than Southerners, I think because of education (sự giáo dục). I was born in Northern countryside. We are very friendly with neighbors, with friends. When seeing acquaintance, we always greet them a smile. When I was a girl, my mother always taught me: when talking with men, must keep a certain distance. And the same with strangers. Therefore, when meeting strangers, I am rarely friendly . Never said hello, never talk something .

I often see many foreigners in my university. I never talk to them. Last year, there was a exchange student in my faculty. He usually worked in my office everyday, I didnt talk to him during 2 weeks. After that, we started up a group to learn English, then I started talking to him. When we talked more, I often drive him (with my colleagues) go somewhere in Saigon, drink coffee, go shopping, help him as much as I can. Athough he is younger than me 8 years old, but I still felt shy . Hihi.

When I live in South, I feel OK with everything. Except one thing, many students see their teacher, they rarely say hello with a smile. I worked in a university when I lived in Hanoi, students there always remember one proverb: "tiên học lễ, hậu học văn" (Google: One can't do without a teacher //// After you is good manners), they always greet with their teacher with a smile (Em chào Thầy (man) /Cô (woman)).

ngattt wrote:

Nowaday some 'Hanoians' were not born in Hanoi. They were from many countryside, they have money to buy house there, and they think they can become Hanoians. No! I think they need much more time to become Hanoians.

I heard about that as well. In fact, nowadays most of the people you find in Ha Noi are not old Hanoians. Many have moved to the outskirts of the city renting out their Hanoi property to realtors who either rent it out to foreigners for more money or build apartment buildings for rent.

With Hanoian, I hear that, nowadays many Hanoian lived in HCM city or went abroad. If someone is Hanoian, she/he is very polite, they always said 'sorry' and 'thank you'... (like foreigners). I saw some Hanoians, even I felt guilty because I wasn't polite like them .

Sorry, but some of those foreign-educated Hanoians are big snobs and petty copycats.  It's very funny because usually true erudition and humility go hand-in-hand.

Actually, it takes time to break the ice in Ha Noi.
People are tough, stubborn and often grim-jawed....but they have a softer humane side as well. It's not often overtly conspicuous, but it's indeed there. For a foreigner it's a test of extreme patience and perseverance to reach to that warm and tender kernel. It may even take years to crack the code in Ha Noi. Some lucky gentlemen (I know half a dozen of my good friends and former colleagues) are happily settled there. Given a choice, they will never leave Ha Noi.

For me, it was a shocker. The first one year was like feeling crazy, cheated and bullied everywhere. So much so that I started feeling grumpy all the time, splashed cash and simply fought back (yes, it works!)..... only hanging out with my expat friends and especially some wonderful Japanese friends I made there. It was indeed a relief to at least see people returning your politeness with respect and ardent courtesy (the Japanese way). We are still very good friends.

Northerners are less friendly than Southerners, I think because of education (sự giáo dục). I was born in Northern countryside. We are very friendly with neighbors, with friends. When seeing acquaintance, we always greet them a smile. When I was a girl, my mother always taught me: when talking with men, must keep a certain distance. And the same with strangers. Therefore, when meeting strangers, I am rarely friendly . Never said hello, never talk something .

I think, it all depends on how you define the word 'friendly'. As I pointed out earlier, it's a tough life in Ha Noi. I remember, I never thought twice when I decided to leave Ha Noi for good.....or my feelings and excitement when I visited HCM the first time during winter holidays...and eventually started flying back n forth.
Like many of my western colleagues, I was literally tired of Ha Noi at that time.

Now, after being away from Viet Nam for more than 1 year, when I reflect on my past experience, I think I miss Ha Noi. Yes, people are tough up there....but they too have a softer side. As my Aussie manager used to say "I wonder, how can these people still smile after years of struggle, persecution, wars and sanctions?"  I didn't realize it at that time...Now as I look back, I understand she was right.

Although rare, I actually made a few good friends (two girls from neighboring provinces and one from Than Hoa) and a bunch of my loving students (both boys and girls) who still keep in touch and keep asking me to come back. Even my apartment's manager (a young guy who helped me a lot) keep sending me emails to this day.

I didn't really realize that I became good friends and left an impression on those people...who used to be so grim-jawed most of the time in public.  I would love to meet them again in Ha Noi someday.

Saigon???? I didn't stay there for a longer time, although I lost bit of my heart there!! 

Yes....Saigon is easy-going, open, carefree, cosmopolitan, laid-back and friendly. ..... and, definitely more "fun" for those in immediate need of that.

But, again, that doesn't make Ha Noi less friendlier.... only if one can bite his time to hang around, have patience and a bit of insight.

That is my realization from my just two and half years of stay in Vietnam, mostly in Ha Noi.

When I live in South, I feel OK with everything. Except one thing, many students see their teacher, they rarely say hello with a smile. I worked in a university when I lived in Hanoi, students there always remember one proverb: "tiên học lễ, hậu học văn" (Google: One can't do without a teacher //// After you is good manners), they always greet with their teacher with a smile (Em chào Thầy (man) /Cô (woman)).

I totally agree about the students in Ha Noi.
Their sense of respect and etiquette, love and polite friendliness always touched me. Most of my colleagues had the same impression too.
Even to this day, we get Happy Teacher's Day wishes and complements on our FB from some of our old students. It's indeed a great feeling!

I never taught in the south. Hope, next time!!

Nothing can be more true about Hanoians than your prudent observations, Jaitch. I never had such tough time anywhere across China or in Japan. It drove me mad in my two years up there. Thanks, I could still escape for a breather to HCM...at least twice a month...wasting a fair chunk of my savings though! So arrogant and stubborn!!

Jaitch wrote:

ngattt wrote:

People in North are difficult than South. They want to be respected. ... And people here can't speak English well. Some people can speak well, they go abroad to study. That's why foreigners don't feel comfortable when they live here. People can't speak English and money is not important with them, so they don't want to sell... They're not friendly.

There seems to be more than just a cultural chasm between the north and south and much more than just food!

I usually have people visiting me start their trip in Ha Noi (and the north) and work their way south. Without exception, comments are less enthusiastic about the north than the south.

The northerners seem to have the attitude that they are 'owed', that they are entitled to things ... maybe from the fact they were bombed so heavily in the American War in VietNam. Hanoians also consider Ha Noi, and themselves, to be the cradle of Vietnamese culture and that most all others are less Vietnamese!

Once I worked on a contract in Ha Noi for six months. My routine was the same six days each week. Leave hotel, walk past school and get breakfast at the same restaurant.

Only ONE child ever said Hi!, to me. Compare that to HCM where children greet Foreigners with enthusiasm. And the waitress treated me as a newcomer every day, even though my order rarely changed!

It's different in the northern countryside, they are more welcoming.

After VietNam was reunited, the Central Highlands were invaded by populations from the north as an attempt by the government of the day to counteract the 'revisionist' attitudes of the inhabitants. Even today, one or two generations after their emigration, it is easy to detect a 'northerner', and even children of northerners, by their attitudes.

Mean in the north..they are care too much your out look...the staff in luxury shops look like Vincom shopping cente dont like to welcome you if u are look poor..
  P/S: i just try to sum up the content of this article.