Civil Unions

Yes, excellent news! 

Great news indeed! That's the way to go, changing people's minds and taboos.

My views and opinion on the matter are mine............however, I would never be so bold or arrogant as to go to           another's country (any country) and seek to change anything within their culture.

People who love each other allowed to get married. Sounds like a good move to me.

georgeingozo wrote:

People who love each other allowed to get married. Sounds like a good move to me.

.................and me.

MikeInPoulton wrote:

My views and opinion on the matter are mine............however, I would never be so bold or arrogant as to go to           another's country (any country) and seek to change anything within their culture.

Is this an indirect to my comment? If it is, you have to be more careful with what you write because a didn't disrespect anyboy. I am not arrogant or bold and it's not my duty or role to change anything on any country but I do like to see old habits like racism, prejudice, etc, being irradiated.

mantonas wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

My views and opinion on the matter are mine............however, I would never be so bold or arrogant as to go to           another's country (any country) and seek to change anything within their culture.

Is this an indirect to my comment? If it is, you have to be more careful with what you write because a didn't disrespect anyboy. I am not arrogant or bold and it's not my duty or role to change anything on any country but I do like to see old habits like racism, prejudice, etc, being irradiated.

Antonio.....no it wasn't directed at you therefore negating your next comments. Also, Antonio, as you should be aware by now, I am always careful with what I write, it's just a shame that you jumped to the wrong conclusion. However, had you 'couched' your comment as you closed that 'little jibe' at me (you are forgiven) then it would have shown, at least to me, a more supportive stance rather than the "changing people minds" stance (emphasis on the "changing"). My views are, as I said, mine and I count a 'gay couple'  as friends of mine here in Poulton, but I stand by what I said earlier............I wouldn't be so bold or arrogant as to try and change another's culture (social, religious or otherwise) as it's not mine to do so - indeed if anyone (group,) were to come to England and tried it with me I would be apoplectic with rage. We may seem to think of ourselves as Global' but mess with our identities and all hell breaks loose. Now take a chill pill Antonio...............you are better than that.

georgeingozo wrote:

People who love each other allowed to get married. Sounds like a good move to me.

The article is about 'Civil Unions' George.

We all know in practical terms its the same thing. Anybody getting a civil union will describe themselves as married, and good luck to them.

MikeInPoulton wrote:

I wouldn't be so bold or arrogant as to try and change another's culture (social, religious or otherwise) as it's not mine to do so.

If you don't mind I want to jump into this discussion for a moment.
I was attracted by this line above.
You are right but sometimes it is good when you are able to give insight how it works in other culture, country or whatever you want to call it. Not for the whole nation but maybe for some people.
It can open their mind and brighten their horizon. And who knows to adopt this new thinking.

Why is this topic discussed on an open forum? It's a touchy subject.

why should equality be a touchy subject ? in fact both major parties are in favour of civil unions, as is AD so thats parties who accounted for 98% of votes cast at the last election

Primadonna wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

I wouldn't be so bold or arrogant as to try and change another's culture (social, religious or otherwise) as it's not mine to do so.

If you don't mind I want to jump into this discussion for a moment.
I was attracted by this line above.
You are right but sometimes it is good when you are able to give insight how it works in other culture, country or whatever you want to call it. Not for the whole nation but maybe for some people.
It can open their mind and brighten their horizon. And who knows to adopt this new thinking.

Indeed, Primadonna.......and I have lived in many countries. However, change must come from within. One thing I learnt many, many years ago was to never talk about politics to any Maltese person (I am deemed a foreigner, even though I am married to a Maltese national (34years) and been back and forth for over 36 years) the subject is really very explosive - I would not dare meddle. Further, as I said earlier, I have been in countries where there has been (shall we say) violent struggle and felt totally sterile in that it was their internal problems and no amount of 'outside help' could overcome these internal problems.

Giving insight is is like anything else........it's just advice, and people can chose to take it or leave it.  However, to try and instigate change, then in my opinion, that line in the sand has been crossed.

Cheers
Mike

I am a father of 3 sons, would i be happy if they fall in love with another guy? I have to be honest and say NO.

georgeingozo wrote:

We all know in practical terms its the same thing. Anybody getting a civil union will describe themselves as married, and good luck to them.

I disagree George...........as the law has been recently changed in the UK my 'friends' now talk about getting married as the next step for them. So no - those getting a 'civil union' do not necessarily describe themselves as married. Two completely different things.

danno wrote:

I am a father of 3 sons, would i be happy if they fall in love with another guy? I have to be honest and say NO.

would you be happy if one of your sons was gay, but felt forced by family pressure to marry a woman ?

If one of your sons is gay, they are gay

georgeingozo wrote:

why should equality be a touchy subject ? in fact both major parties are in favour of civil unions, as is AD so thats parties who accounted for 98% of votes cast at the last election

......and with a 92.95% voter 'turn out'...........that democracy at work.

MikeInPoulton wrote:

georgeingozo wrote:

We all know in practical terms its the same thing. Anybody getting a civil union will describe themselves as married, and good luck to them.

I disagree George...........as the law has been recently changed in the UK my 'friends' now talk about getting married as the next step for them. So no - those getting a 'civil union' do not necessarily describe themselves as married. Two completely different things.

Maltese legislation says "Same-sex couples will have the same rights and obligations as married persons of the opposite sex, including the possibility to adopt children". It may not be legally labelled marriage, but effectively its the same thing

I don't believe there is such thing as being gay. I believe it's sexual preference.

danno wrote:

I don't believe there is such thing as being gay. I believe it's sexual preference.

I see no point continuing this conversation with someone who has lost touch with reality

I suppose your entitled to your opinion as i am to mine.

georgeingozo wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

georgeingozo wrote:

We all know in practical terms its the same thing. Anybody getting a civil union will describe themselves as married, and good luck to them.

I disagree George...........as the law has been recently changed in the UK my 'friends' now talk about getting married as the next step for them. So no - those getting a 'civil union' do not necessarily describe themselves as married. Two completely different things.

Maltese legislation says "Same-sex couples will have the same rights and obligations as married persons of the opposite sex, including the possibility to adopt children". It may not be legally labelled marriage, but effectively its the same thing

No it's not..................it's a civil union.

A quote from the article:

On a personal note I am proud that I have always publicly supported the introduction of full equality in terms of LGBT rights, even though I would have preferred the legislation to refer to ‘marriage' rather than ‘civil unions', as marriage has a greater symbolic effect for those who opt for it

Even he doesn't think of it as marriage...........having the same rights and obligations doesn't make it so. Those who live together in the UK for a long period enjoy those same rights (in law) but still do not consider themselves married.

This topic is not about your opinion about gays or if it is a disease  or not or if you like gays or not (and everything in between) it  has to do with legal rights like Georgeingozo stated earlier.

It has to do with legal rights for everyone without discrimination based on gender, sexual preference, color, nationality or what ever reason you can think of.

Primadonna wrote:

This topic is not about your opinion about gays or if it is a disease  or not or if you like gays or not (and everything in between) it  has to do with legal rights like Georgeingozo stated earlier.

It has to do with legal rights for everyone without discrimination based on gender, sexual preference, color, nationality or what ever reason you can think of.

I agree, and it has never been about anything you have just said........in fact I think there is only one person who has 'diverted' slightly from the point. However, and I will say it again, it is the right of no-one but the Maltese to decide on how this is taken forward. No amount of trumpeting on a message board will change my opinion of that. If you actually read what George has said in that it has all party support and my comment that there was a 92.95% turn out for the last elections then democracy is at work. Anyone can have the own 'diversity' views and opinions without being bigoted but please try not to ram it down peoples throats when, really, it's their business not ours. As I said earlier, if someone (a foreigner) tried to change my country (in whatever way) and I objected to it, I would be very, very angry.

danno wrote:

I don't believe there is such thing as being gay. I believe it's sexual preference.

I can't believe there are still bigots like you about in this day & age, but hey you proved me wrong...

MikeInPoulton wrote:

Primadonna wrote:

This topic is not about your opinion about gays or if it is a disease  or not or if you like gays or not (and everything in between) it  has to do with legal rights like Georgeingozo stated earlier.

It has to do with legal rights for everyone without discrimination based on gender, sexual preference, color, nationality or what ever reason you can think of.

I agree, and it has never been about anything you have just said........in fact I think there is only one person who has 'diverted' slightly from the point. However, and I will say it again, it is the right of no-one but the Maltese to decide on how this is taken forward. No amount of trumpeting on a message board will change my opinion of that. If you actually read what George has said in that it has all party support and my comment that there was a 92.95% turn out for the last elections then democracy is at work. Anyone can have the own 'diversity' views and opinions without being bigoted but please try not to ram it down peoples throats when, really, it's their business not ours. As I said earlier, if someone (a foreigner) tried to change my country (in whatever way) and I objected to it, I would be very, very angry.

How is anyone on here trying to change Malta?? The comment was made about Malta changing the laws themselves, are people not allowed to be happy about that?? I really don't understand your comments at all... 

FlamingGalah! wrote:

MikeInPoulton wrote:

Primadonna wrote:

This topic is not about your opinion about gays or if it is a disease  or not or if you like gays or not (and everything in between) it  has to do with legal rights like Georgeingozo stated earlier.

It has to do with legal rights for everyone without discrimination based on gender, sexual preference, color, nationality or what ever reason you can think of.

I agree, and it has never been about anything you have just said........in fact I think there is only one person who has 'diverted' slightly from the point. However, and I will say it again, it is the right of no-one but the Maltese to decide on how this is taken forward. No amount of trumpeting on a message board will change my opinion of that. If you actually read what George has said in that it has all party support and my comment that there was a 92.95% turn out for the last elections then democracy is at work. Anyone can have the own 'diversity' views and opinions without being bigoted but please try not to ram it down peoples throats when, really, it's their business not ours. As I said earlier, if someone (a foreigner) tried to change my country (in whatever way) and I objected to it, I would be very, very angry.

How is anyone on here trying to change Malta?? The comment was made about Malta changing the laws themselves, are people not allowed to be happy about that?? I really don't understand your comments at all... 

Couldn't agree more with you FlamingGalah! And for you Mike, this is gonna be my final comment about this topic. You misunderstood my initial comment, I did not say I wanted to change the Maltese people minds. I meant to say it's good to see people's mind changing for positive. For a country that only few years ago the divorce was not allowed, it's a great step this new law about Civil Unions. I don't care less what other people think about gay marriage, I have my opinion and I respect other people's opinion and was never my pretension trying to change anything, I treat my gay friends the same way as I treat my straight friends, and due to this law, I am actually very happy for them.

mantonas wrote:

Couldn't agree more with you FlamingGalah! And for you Mike, this is gonna be my final comment about this topic. You misunderstood my initial comment, I did not say I wanted to change the Maltese people minds. I meant to say it's good to see people's mind changing for positive. For a country that only few years ago the divorce was not allowed, it's a great step this new law about Civil Unions. I don't care less what other people think about gay marriage, I have my opinion and I respect other people's opinion and was never my pretension trying to change anything, I treat my gay friends the same way as I treat my straight friends, and due to this law, I am actually very happy for them.

Well then Antonio, me too..............................cheers.

Excuse me Flaming Galah, I'm not a bigot. What i said basically, is that i wouldn't approve of my sons engaging in that behaviour. It's sad to see that the majority of people are so willing to accept this behaviour, until it affects their family.

danno wrote:

Excuse me Flaming Galah, I'm not a bigot. What i said basically, is that i wouldn't approve of my sons engaging in that behaviour. It's sad to see that the majority of people are so willing to accept this behaviour, until it affects their family.

My sister is gay, and is in a civil partnership. I not only accept it, but am very happy about it, as is everyone in my family

You know what danno, IMHO acceptance is the way to go. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. What gender a person is attracted to makes absolutely no difference and there is no reason to judge them based on it. In terms of judging a person based on this matter, it can only be comparable to racism. You remind me of people who say they're not racists but they wouldn't like to see their sons/daughters, marrying a black (or any other race) person. And by the way, homosexuality is not a choice, just like heterosexuality is not a choice. One doesn't choose to be straight, just like one doesn't choose to be gay, it's nature. I have a gay friend who had a very unhappy youth because he was kind off forced to pretend he was straight, afraid of his parents and society reactions, until he decided to accept and assume his sexuality. Now, his parents haven't got any problems about what he is and they like him the same way they like his other sisters. Just because of what the bible says, doesn't mean people cannot be different...but then again, this is my opinion and I do respect what other people think about this subject, which I agree, it's not an easy subject to discuss.

georgeingozo wrote:

[quote/]I see no point continuing this conversation with someone who has lost touch with reality

This is exactly what i mean, on one hand your saying you can't see a point in continuing this conversation with me but on the other hand you are trying to convince yourself what your sister is doing is right.

danno wrote:

georgeingozo wrote:

[quote/]I see no point continuing this conversation with someone who has lost touch with reality

This is exactly what i mean, on one hand your saying you can't see a point in continuing this conversation with me but on the other hand you are trying to convince yourself what your sister is doing is right.

I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. My sister is happily living with another woman in a civil partnership. They have adopted a child, who is great. Everyone is happy, other than people like you. But then its got nothing to do with you, fortunately, and whether you approve of their "behaviour" means nothing. Her and her partner were born gay. Their adopted son is now a young man, who isnt gay, but if he was, thats also fine.

and this is precisely why somebody mentioned that this is a topic that will go to ****

Duxx wrote:

and this is precisely why somebody mentioned that this is a topic that will go to ****

on that basis, we cant discuss anything, and might as well close the blog down

georgeingozo wrote:

Duxx wrote:

and this is precisely why somebody mentioned that this is a topic that will go to ****

on that basis, we cant discuss anything, and might as well close the blog down

That's right GnG, the problem only exists when people don't respect other people's opinions or misinterpreted what one says. Everyone has the right to agree or disagree, but with respect towards others.

not all opinions deserve respect - some might have the opinion that the earth is flat, for example, or that white people are superior to black people. Neither is getting respect from me.

this discussion has raised an issue that has me troubled. If someone disagrees with the gay partnership issue and say so then they are at best labelled as intolerant and at worst called a gay basher and bigot.
Do they have to conform to  a minority group that insist they are correct at the risk of loosing there own morality?
Someone who speaks up for what they believe should have that right ,shouldn't they?
Making a climate of fear around standing up for what you believe, Isn't this how the Nazis got to power?
A minority group that blamed Jews, disabled, gays etc for the countries troubles and the majority were frightened to say " hold on you have gone too far"
Being fair does not mean that minorities should hold sway over what the majority in a country believe in but are discouraged from saying so.
It troubles me that people think being fair means being unfair to anyone who holds a different view.

How long before paedophilia becomes the norm ?

Terry