Careless about Environment and The Nature are sad things in Indonesia

Good comments Mas Fred! And very diplomatic, I might add, due to your rejoinder "It may be untrue in places I have yet to visit, I'll let you know if I find such a place."

Maybe this is enough to deflect vituperative outbursts from the mount. Who knows?

Have seen pristine areas in the 1980s: Bali's Lake Bratan, inland from Mataram in Lombok and rural Timor. This is getting less and less now. Generally the poorer areas of Indonesia such as NTT and the more inaccessible areas of Kalimantan fit the bill. This is mainly due to the high costs of imported goods both Indonesian and foreign. This again is due to poor logistics which makes the transport of these often unnecessary items non-viable.

Generally local populations discard of their items by burning or river/lake/sea dumping. It is only really a threat if the items are non-biodegradable. Even in the case of biodegradable items, the capacity of the environment to actually absorb waste has to be assessed.

I maintain that due to significant overcrowding in urban and many rural areas this capacity for absorption and regeneration has long since passed and this accounts for the veracity of my prior statement concerning S Bali being a cesspit. This has of course been extended to many other areas of Bali.

Congratulations and my thanks to those that are taking an active role (also) in trying to ameliorate conditions through local "Clean Up" days and the like.

Baliguy, this forum has been plagued with bogus posters claiming to be living here,  married to locals, but in reality were nothing more than spammers and trolls.  One of those was a contributor on this thread, now designated as guest.  There have been more.

Showing up and making a first post along the lines you wrote, and with no real information in your profile, there is no reason for me to believe that you aren't just another spammer or troll. 

If you had read this entire topic thread then you would have read my description of the various improvements that have been going on here in Bali including waste recycling, educational awareness in public schools and a far more clean Bali today than when I first moved here more than 15 years ago.   

I haven't said, nor even intimated that the waste issue is totally resolved here on Bali, rather I only sought some balance and recognition for what has been accomplished. 

And blaming Asia for all that garbage on the Pacific northwest coast (the photo) is laughably disingenuous.   

If you read the report published in Canada and linked in my earlier post, then you certainly read this:

"Canada throws away more garbage per capita than any other country in the developed world."  In case you're unclear, what that says, what it says is that Canadians throw away more garbage per person than in any other developed country in the world.  Maybe that does make you an expert on garbage. 

What an inconvenient truth that must be for you, and your lack of comment about that truth speaks volumes itself. 

Quite frankly, your insistence that Indonesia is a third world country cast the die for me, as it proved beyond a doubt that you are totally ignorant and certainly disrespectful of this country.  Indonesia is classified by the United Nations as a developing nation and in case you haven't woken up yet, there have been no first second or third world countries since the fall of the Soviet Union.  And yes, it does matter that Indonesia is a member of the G-20, and the ridiculous idea that any member nation of the G-20 could be considered a third world country in your mind says about all I need to hear from you.   

I stand by my prior rebuttal to you as written.  And for the record, we do not share the same KITAP status, as I am on KTP...full citizen of Indonesia.   

As for my volunteer work in Bali you can check with this foundation which is just one that I have been associated with for many years: 

http://www.pedulisesamaphilanthropicwork.org/

Or you check with this one and ask Dr. John Cook or Joyce Scott:

http://www.balichildrensproject.org/

Oh, and by the way, in Bali there are many sources of potable water than isn't found in plastic bottles, but I am surely not surprised that you don't know that. 

You want to refer to me as "Mr Pompas Ubudian" be my guest.  In my mind you are nothing more than yet another ignorant newbie expat who wants everything here to be just like it was back home. 

Indostocks, frankly I'm surprised that you still have posting privileges here.  IMHO, your input thus far on this forum has been about as useful as giving a dead man a Fleet enema.

Rattle the cage and he shall come....

Do NOT use Fleet enema if:

    you are allergic to any ingredient in Fleet enema
    you have appendicitis or a blockage in your intestines
    you are bedridden

Roy, are you confined? You seem to be on this site more than humanly possible. Is it raining in Ubud like it is in Yogya?

Oh, and by the way, is it possible to access audited reports for the Aura Sukma Insani Foundation online?

"Oh, and by the way, is it possible to access audited reports for the Aura Sukma Insani Foundation online?"

Not online, but I called for you, and yes, your name is prominent there.

Special note was also given to your past, as well as present avatar by the way.

Re: Indostocks, frankly I'm surprised that you still have posting privileges here.

You aren't a professor of feminist studies at UC Santa Barbara are you Roy?

I mean we do have the right to comment on issue such as the state of the environment here on this site do we not? And preferably without being called to question in such a demeaning manner such as;

Quite frankly, your insistence that Indonesia is a third world country cast the die for me, as it proved beyond a doubt that you are totally ignorant and certainly disrespectful of this country.

and

In my mind you are nothing more than yet another ignorant newbie expat who wants everything here to be just like it was back home.

and

If you were even remotely fair and objective with your comments you would know that I always acknowledge that we have problems, and that there is room for improvement.

So please, whatever your personal problems are regarding Indonesia, Bali, or myself...try keeping them to yourself.

ad auseam

But it boils down to this misanthropic statement...

my favorite tee shirts are not printed, Eat, Pray, Love, but rather, Eat, Pay, Leave.

QED

Not online, but I called for you, and yes, your name is prominent there.

Special note was also given to your past, as well as present avatar by the way.

Care to elaborate

Hard to read all your quotes in yellow print, but yes, those are all accurate quotes.

And, I stand by every one of them...including, Eat, Pay, Leave.   

This might be hard for you to understand, but if I wanted to remain aligned to westerners, I would have stayed in New York City.

What I want now, more than anything, is to see that my three boys, Bima, Rama and Komang, and all of their numerous cousins (my nieces and nephews), get to live and enjoy the same Bali as I have for all these years.

Luckily, my brother in law, now entering his second term in the Provincial DPRD shares this same vision.  And we both know that the road to that assurance is not paved by belly aching expats, and satisfying their complaints.

Well as having your KTP you must have had to given up your American citizenship and that tells me a lot about you also.......hmmmm

My father has a saying "YOU BULLSHIT YOUR FRIENDS AND I'LL BULLSHIT MINE BUT LET'S NOT BULLSHIT EACH OTHER"

And for as to say that I am a newbie take it however you want over 7 years here and 5 in China. I think I have a right to comment on the state of affairs but  the facts still remain the same. It is what it is...

I am also pretty much guessing you have never taken your wife back for any amount of time to the USA.

P.S. Keep living in denial its our god given right. And I see no comment from the peanut gallery about coming to Ubud and actually sitting down and having a meeting with you and others about making a contribution instead of just hiding behind a keyboard. You never know I might actually hear something out of your mouth that has value and find a teensee weensee bit of respect for you.

If you were serious about putting action to your words I maybe able to invite a few influential Balinese people from parliament that actually have a say here in this province and have the same interests and concerns as we do.

Denial the state of living in non reality.

Roy, due to a variety of reasons, many of us here post anonymously. You have a link to a website where you mention your first name.

Without being certain, I presume your sons have not given their permission to have their names mentioned in a public forum such as this one. I equally dare to presume that your wife has not give her permission to such effect either.

I suggest for you to edit your posting to take down their names. I will edit this particular posting once you have done so. This in order to eliminate any reference to the matter.

We may have barney about different things but we should leave family out of it...

Alternatively, you may use the following names such as Wayan, Made and Nyoman to refer to them.

I live in a dense far too crowded and noisy part of the city which at times is dirty and yes there is litter in places. But as a rule it is taken care of. People seem to have pride in where they live but maybe no further. In the seven years of living in different parts of Jakarta I have seen it amazingly tidy and frightfully dirty. Especially the rivers and around the markets. In Bali also I have seen lots of rubbish and waste piled up on the beaches washed in from somewhere else but I have not seen it dirty nor locals throwing their rubbish onto the street and I can say the same about Lombok. Bali is also the only place I have ever seen school children taking brushes to school as part of their daily routine. This certainly doesn't happen in Jakarta. The last time I travelled across the island there was rubbish here and there but nothing compared to Jakarta.
However more should and could be done in educating people about waste and litter. But not as much with recycling as that is very well sorted through the scavengers.
People here have been burning, dumping, leaving their rubbish wherever for so long that it is has become part of the norm however I believe this is changing and for the better because more of society is thinking this is wrong.

"Without being certain, I presume your sons have not given their permission to have their names mentioned in a public forum such as this one. I equally dare to presume that your wife has not give her permission to such effect either.  I suggest for you to edit your posting to take down their names. I will edit this particular posting once you have done so. This in order to eliminate any reference to the matter."

Are you joking?  My family is very well known in Ubud, Bali, in fact, two of my boys and one niece are especially well known within Bali karate circles.  Actually, that reminds me, I need to buy another trophy case. 

Do they mind that their given names are used here by me?  Absolutely not.  Do you have any idea how many Balinese are named Bima, Rama or Komang?  What a nutty idea! 

Sorry if you live in paranoia, but we don't.

And Roy, a little more cordiality to all of us, please.

It is not like that I am standing in front of you barracking for the Philadelphia Phillies at Shea Stadium, is it?

"It is not like that I am standing in front of you barracking for the Philadelphia Phillies at Shea Stadium, is it?"

Actually, I'd like that, and stand right with you.

You see, I've always been a Yankees fan!

"Well as having your KTP you must have had to given up your American citizenship and that tells me a lot about you also.......hmmmm"

Do tell.  What does that say about me?   

"If you were serious about putting action to your words I maybe able to invite a few influential Balinese people from parliament that actually have a say here in this province and have the same interests and concerns as we do."

No need.  I'm already very, very well connected thanks.

"I am also pretty much guessing you have never taken your wife back for any amount of time to the USA."

And why on earth would I do that?  And what makes you presume that's she's the least bit interested? 

My oldest son Bima already has a full paid scholarship to Northeastern in Boston, so when it's time for him to head off there, he can fill us all in.   

Luke Reg: However more should and could be done in educating people about waste and litter. But not as much with recycling as that is very well sorted through the scavengers.



Does this mean that the scavengers don't go through your garbage, opening plastic bags and often spilling the contents on the pathway, and leaving the rest in a fly and other vermin ridden mess?

This is my experience and other experiences I have gathered on an anecdotal basis...

You see, I've always been a Yankees fan!

Damn! One out of 2 choices and I get it wrong! 

Sounds like you have daddy or mommy issue did they not tell you he loved you enough or give you enough hugs.

Sorry I don't get you my wife, myself and Balinese friend are having a good laugh right now at you....

Do you even know how the rubbish problem started here in Indonesia. It was never like this about 40 years ago....

It was due to a rebellion against the government at the time and has never changed back to this day....From many Indonesians mouths to your ears......

Indostocks, no, the scavengers don't do that in the area I live in that's for sure. They look through what is left out and are careful not to make any more mess.
If they did I am sure they would not be welcome and treated badly by the locals and the street head.
I have seen it elsewhere but that's normally in areas with bigger houses and gates. I am not in an area like that. I am in the 'thick' of it so to speak.

Personally, I highly doubt that you could tell the difference between a Balinese and a Javanese.

Where did you meet this guy anyway...on Kuta beach for a massage? 

"Do you even know how the rubbish problem started here in Indonesia. It was never like this about 40 years ago....
It was due to a rebellion against the government at the time and has never changed back to this day....From many Indonesians mouths to your ears......"

Not speaking for all of Indonesia, sure, I know fully well how the rubbish problem started in Bali, and a rebellion had nothing to do with it...TOURISM you silly boy!

OH, and by the way, regarding "mommy and daddy" they always preferred to come here to visit...and who can blame them?  How about your mommy and daddy?

Thanks for the reply.

I live in an (immediate) area with a more transient population, read students, as well as long term locals plus a religious mix into the bargain. This results in everyone treading lightly avoiding sensitive toes.

Am happy to be aware that things can be different. Even in a large city. Even in Jakarta.

Hi all,

This thread could remain an interesting one if some of you could avoid going off topic or start personal attacks.
We don't want to start moderating posts.

Thanks
Armand
Expat.com Team

Time to play
Name That Third World City

At least one London shot for sure...and also for sure...none of them in Bali!   

Anywhere we are, we can contribute our good attitude by show the good examples of throwing the rubbish in a proper place, educate people started from our family, then friends, so hopefully member of our family can tell their friends, and our friends can tell their family, and so on, and hopefully it become bigger & bigger cycle of better habit of people.

Honestly in Bali, one time I saw a western man throw his cigarette butt on the street while drive a motorbike. I hope those kind of person is not a lot. It is sad that those kind of people are exist everywhere. Instead of keep the strict rule in his country, he thought that since there is no fine to pay he can choose to throw the rubbish on the street.

Toronto
Marseille
London
Naples
Shenzhen
Amsterdam
New York
Malaga
Nanjing
Montreal
Portsmouth
Kuala+Lumpur
Toronto (again)
San Francisco
Newark

Right, I've named them so I want a prize.

enyfrans  must  be  joking  about  a  western  throwing  a cigarette on   the  road  causing  some  grief     doesnt   he  watch  the locals        a  middle  aged  local  rode  from  next  door  where  there  large  rubbish bins      and   threw  a  large  bag  of  rubbish  into  the  drain          and  he  is     not  unusual      what   about  all  the  offerings  left  on  the  roads    arent    they  rubbish     to  claim  the  rubbish  all  due  to  tourists  is  rubbish  itself   

most  of  the  photos  are  not  bali

u    r  right   the  photos  are  not  bali  or  even  indonesia   i    dont  think  there  is  a  double  deck   bus running  to  fulton  or  a  union jack  on  the  ground

balibll wrote:

enyfrans  must  be  joking  about  a  western  throwing  a cigarette on   the  road  causing  some  grief     doesnt   he  watch  the locals        a  middle  aged  local  rode  from  next  door  where  there  large  rubbish bins      and   threw  a  large  bag  of  rubbish  into  the  drain          and  he  is     not  unusual      what   about  all  the  offerings  left  on  the  roads    arent    they  rubbish     to  claim  the  rubbish  all  due  to  tourists  is  rubbish  itself   

most  of  the  photos  are  not  bali

What i mean is if you western people have good regulation in your country, why you change your good habit by do something bad in the country like Indonesia just because it has no strict regulation? I admit that i saw once only, but i am sure there are several western doesn't care with the environment, instead just care with the regulation in their country or how much fine they have to pay.

Once again, my point is I wish people will spread their good habit wherever they live, and by good habit, good education to take care of the environment, instead of judging and following the bad behavior of local.

Or, to follow the good examples of the locals:   http://www.homeinbali.com/forum/uploads … _78550.jpg

I wouldn't have even known these places are third world if it wasn't mentioned, they look really good actually in terms if development, the only crap is trash in most of the pics. who agrees with me?

Enny Frans wrote:

What i mean is if you western people have good regulation in your country, why you change your good habit by do something bad in the country like Indonesia just because it has no strict regulation?

People don't always show the same respect for the places they visit as they do for their own homes.  Some people treat their vacation spots worse than they treat their cat's litter box.