The other side of the Thai postcard

Julien wrote:

Hi,

As a tourist in a foreign country, very often, we are enchanted with what we discover.

Living abroad is different. It's a rich experience but there are also some difficulties to face.

When people ask me for advice on living abroad, I then tend to say that one should also look at both sides of the postcard.

As an expat in Thailand, how would you describe the two sides of your Thai postcard?

Thank you for sharing your experience,

Julien

A good question and one often overlooked in my opinion by some folk when they become expats here. I say this because there are certainly many things that it is easy to miss when viewed through "beer goggles" on a two week holiday.

The front side of the postcard, a pretty picture, perhaps, is easy to describe. Beautiful beaches, national parks, friendly folk and great food all at a price far removed from many countries like my own UK.

However if you decide to settle here you will soon discover that all that sparkles is not necessary gold. Although Thai visa regs are not the most strict in the world, they can still be a pain and an irritation, full of red tape. There is also a feeling that whatever your connection to Thailand, even if you are married to a Thai for example, that you will never be anything other than a foreigner who is tolerated rather than truely welcomed. You are good for your money, but will find everyone wants to seperate you from it. Dual and inflated prices for foreigners are not uncommon.

There is a standing joke here among long term expats that goes along the lines of "if you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, arrive with a big one!"

Expats arriving here are often unprepared, for example, they do not speak or read Thai. Then complain that outside of the tourist traps no one understands them since they expect the locals to be fluent English speakers. Many fall by the wayside, sucked into an expat drinking culture, before returning home, blaming Thailand for their demise.

Medical care and currency exchange rates are also areas many expats fail to include in the equation about for calculating the cost of living here. The former can be expensive while fluctuations in the latter affect the money transfered into the Kingdom. In 2008 when I first arrived here there were 65 Baht to one GBP. Now its around 54 after dipping as low as 45!!

None of the above should put anyone off settling here. I have a great life living in the rural north. Here we live comfortably on 40,000 Baht a month. I am surrounded by rice fields and rolling hills. Wildlife is abundant and there are four big national parks within an hours drive of my home.

My advice to anyone wanting to settle here is to visit the country a few times, different, no touristy areas. See where you like. If you still want to come get an A Visa(if you qualify) which is good for 15 months here. Don't burn your bridges back home. Then take it from there.

Good reply thetefldon! I am planning the move but fear some of the things you pointed out. I have done all the drinking and stuff and now am happy with the quite life. When ever we go to Thailand I always do one night of craziness and than glad to go to our home in rural south Thailand. The day (and I do know its always holidays) starts with a walk in the hill above our farm while my wife goes to her temple( yes every day). We than maybe go for a drive stop at the beech have some lunch go shopping just normal stuff and normally in bed by 7pm and it all starts again at 6am.
  Maybe not for everyone but I enjoy it . Live is what you make it I feel.

As the recession bites, Thailand and all places East offer seemingly attractive alternatives. I now work in China, but continue to regard Thailand as my ‘home' and it's somewhere to retire to in a few years time. Take off the rose tinted glasses and Thailand is just another nine to five daily grind, minus a welfare system.
Thailand is a nightmare waiting to happen to the unwary and just like the glitter of London's west end or downtown Las Vegas, all that glitters is definitely not gold. The worldwide recession has now caught up there and teachers I know are leaving in droves.

          It still remains a viable alternative to western mass unemployment though and those who keep their wits about them and don't get sucked into the western bar life and lifestyle can still live quite happily there. I think the trick is, if we can call it that, is to look on Thailand as a place of domicile and find things to do. Spending two weeks building sand castles on the beach each year is very different to spending the rest of your life doing it and the novelty will soon wear off. There are plenty of voluntary positions available, but for the younger generation it's imperative to find employment, which means a verifiable degree studied for in the west and some further training. Achieve that and Thailand can be not only a place to live, but enjoyable.

          Come to Thailand with an already researched and workable plan and don't just turn up with a backpack and dreams. What is it you want? Is employment for your particular skill sought after? If you have addiction problems, get rid of them before you arrive. Is it peace and quiet you want, or a rave type of lifestyle? Just as you wouldn't buy a house without first viewing and researching its history, research your future life thouroughly before taking the plunge. Remember: Thailand isn't a paradise it's a country just like any other, except that it's probably sunnier than the one you're in now.   

Hi Julien, Thank you for your email and I enjoy the Expat.com and find it quite useful. Your idea is certainly correct about the other side of the post card and I think it mainly depends on the attitude of the Expat.
I have an old saying that I stick to; You won't change Thailand  so you'll have to change yourself.
I chose to retire here in Chiang mai and selected the house and location in this city because I liked it- after two years I still do.
There were certain aspects of life here that it took time to adjust to, even my Thai wife of twenty four years had to adjust ( she's from Phichit).  I chose to retire here deliberately. I'm not here to teach Thais how to live or make changes to the country.
The standard of driving concerns me greatly but I drive defensively and use a dashboard camera in case there is an incident. I expect drivers and motorcyclists to do stupid things and no longer become outraged - the point of the journey is to arrive alive. There is no benefit in  stressing over poor road manners it won't change Thailand.
I either accept the way it is or I can leave - the choice is up to me. There is no point becoming angry or nasty about certain things - learn to brush it off and keep your own standards of behaviour while trying to respect and enjoy the wonderful throbbing pulse of life in this country and its people.

I have changed and I hope its for the better. I think I am more tolerant and forgiving, less likely to become angry over things which are not really important. I hope I keep on changing in a nice way.
Sounds like a bit Buddhism rubbing off on me and thats not so bad either. After all I'm a guest here and I like to be treated nicely so I try and do the same.  It generally works.

For intending expats I would advise having a few holidays here and not at 4 star hotels or resorts. Go and live among the real people and learn the wisdom of the street. Look for similarities, that will help you build bridges, the differences will be obvious. Show an interest in how Thais do things and you might be surprised at how people open their homes and lives to you, after all everyone is proud of their country and culture and many people will be delighted to share it with you if you show interest.
Remember its your attitude that will need adjustment if you are to benefit from the time spent here.
So far so good,

Soundspeed

After a long teaching career, the last six years of which were spent in China, we have retired to Chiangmai. We fell in love with Asia during our time in China and all the various trips we have taken around the surrounding countries. Thailand was one of the spots we really enjoyed. Nothing fazes us after our years in Wuhan and we love anything that is chalk full of spicy peppers and sauces! 

We enjoy the people, the street food, the climate and the inexpensive massages. I am not here because of this grandiose idea of a Thai paradise and have no interest in living in a village in the north or on a secluded beach. We like the malls, the development, and the crowds. We would never be able to afford to have this kind of lifestyle in an urban centre of Canada or the States. It is fairly inexpensive but we could probably find places just as cheap to live in the boonies of North America. And if you want to maintain a NA lifestyle, there is nothing cheap about it. After living in a city of 10 million for half a decade, we got used to the urban life. Chiangmai is no Bangkok but it has enough stuff to keep us busy and interested.

The temperatures in Wuhan, one of the four furnaces of China, got into the 40s during the summer. Woohoo! We have yet to turn on our air-conditioner in Chiangmai, but we do wear sweaters and jackets when we visit the malls or theatres. I think that is one of the few bones we have to pick with Thailand and Asia, in general. For some reason, they have to keep every subway, mall, theatre and office building at sub-zero temperatures.

Unlike most expats, I really like driving in Asia. Driving in Chiangmai is a piece of cake compared to China. I obtained my Thai car and motorcycle license to avoid any problems. I always wear a helmet and ride my scooter here like I rode my 1500cc bike in Canada. The only thing I do here differently is to join the crews moving up through the lanes of traffic. I have learned to predict the movements of the careless, and/or stupid, drivers here just as I did in China. After more than 50 000 km of accident-free motorcycle cruising and two riding courses, it is easy to see why Thailand has one of the highest accident rates in the world, mostly involving two-wheels.

It's easy for us to zip down to one of the beaches in the south if we have the urge. But I am much more interested in cruising around the north on my new scooter! We are bikers from way back and plan on doing lots of short tours around the surrounding area. Give us good computers with high-speed internet so we can continue our online activities without interruption and we are happy anywhere in the world.

I guess the only thing that is a little worrisome here at the moment is the political situation. But we got rid of all our "stuff" years ago so we could remain mobile. It would only take us an hour or so to pack up our scooter and head across the border if it ever gets totally out of hand!  I have no investments here, I have no roots here, I really couldn't care less what the government does as long as my safety is not jeopardized.  We don't have a TV, and so far, apart from all the needless deaths and injuries, the situation has made for very entertaining comedy on a daily basis.  I feel bad for the Thais who have this instability hanging over their heads, but as a foreigner, it is not my place to talk about it or get involved. The world is a big place and we have no plans to settle anywhere forever at this point.

Life is good and too short to get worked up about politics, money and power! You can read about my adventures on thaicanuck dot com.

Nothing prepares you for what awaits you in Thailand.   Mind you, that can be said for any place in the world and as much as Thailand has to offer, it is your outlook and what you are  seeking that will ultimately have the universe deliver.

Some come for a new life, some for rest, relaxations, other to party, and so on.   Seek and you shall find.

Overall the Thai people, positive outlook, smiley and happy go lucky attitude that truly make Thailand a unique experience.   Add a great climate, amazing food, nice beaches, and you have yourself a little piece of heaven.  Mind you, if you end up in the wrong circles, with a bar girl, or decide to move here thinking you will make lots of money, your opinion of Thailand will change.

All in all, best move I have ever made.  Me Kwamsug!

Well when i first time come here for 90 days relaxing to see if the climate was good for my bad health, i read a lot on the internet before coming, and i start 2 weeks in Pattaya / Jomtien and both internet and the people in this 2 city say really  bad things about Thailand / Thai.

Then i start travel to small city, away from the "Tourist" city/zone and find the "real Thailand" well for me it is.
And then i find out then 99% what the people in Pattaya / Jomtien told me was wrong, and the same can be say about the internet. You only read the bad stories on the internet, not they many more happy stories.

Today after i be living here for 3 years, i know i did the right thing.
So kind people are in Thailand, so open hearth, so welcome they make one (well me) fell.
Open there home, family for me same day as i move in the street, and i know no one there at the time, i will never forget this.
But today after understand Thai more, i do know this is the way Thai is, they take pride in make a foreigner feel "home" and as they say, if one day i come to say Thailand is a good country, next best after Denmark, they be very happy.
Wow it the only word i have, i never believe it, if it was my self living it.

I find must things here in Thailand easy, I donŽt think sit and waiting, make copy of my passport to be HARD.
And Thai do love copy of passport for every thing.

Of cause there is thing i donŽt like here, but i do think if that change to much to be like in my country back home, Thailand might lose some of is charm ??
I hope the change in Thailand come at a slow speed, because i do think that change are coming.

There is so many good things happened to me since i come here, i canŽt put it all here.
And Thailand and the Thai people have change me to be a better person for sure, i never be so relax and open for "others" as i am today, and i donŽt worry that much..

Well i hope some can understand what i trying to say, it is hard to put words on it for me.

To me what fascinates me most about Thailand is how fast they recover from any downfall.
I have been an expat working here for the last 17 years, the country has been really good to me and I love it here.
It is all about the people, the life's and how we can play a role in building up this country.

Apart from that, the simplicity of Thai people and the wonderful food they have have has made me wanting to stay longer. Don't look at Thailand as just for making a living, look at it wonders and the natural country sides.

Its a Sabai Sabai attitude that cools me down and relaxes my mind every time there is a challenge.

Thank you
Regards

In Montana I had nothing but violence, drugs, alcohol, pornography and mean spirited people to put up with for 57 years. I moved to Thailand almost 9 years ago and have found it to be a wonderful place filled with pleasant, kind people, a very forgiving cost of living, superb food, wonderful Christian friends and church, and I no longer have to freeze thanks to this warm, cozy climate. I've enjoyed peace of mind and happiness since coming, something I never had before. I also have a most beautiful Thai wife who adores me and takes good care of me, a commodity not too hard to find in Thailand but rare as a hen's tooth in Montana. I have my own pension, sold my house, and so qualify for a retirement visa easily enough, but it would be possible to get by on my $10K USD social security here, but NOT in the USA.

On the negative side, here you go. There are quite a few sneak thieves, so your pretties may be best left at home, but maybe not, depending. I live in the Chiang Mai area which is perfect for retirees except that Feb-Apr there is usually a lot of burning and smoke pollution which can make some people quite sick and some can't stay here. There are some good air filters and you can hide out in your bedroom, but it can be a long season. I've always loved rain, but this last rainy season (about Sep-Dec) did me in. I had several bad colds and two rounds of Dengue fever, which is a rough illness to get through. These negatives are minor relative to the positives for me. Oh, one other thing. Driving here is not like it was in Montana. It's very intense with heavy traffic, aggressive drivers, and not a few madmen, especially on motorcycles. I've seen and known quite a few Thais and farangs who are now dead or badly crippled from motorbike accidents. I thought I was safe, being very careful on my Fino, but someone jumped in front of me 2 months ago. I was very lucky to survive, but still with two badly damaged legs/knees which may take another few months to fully recover. I guess that I'd have been lucky to die happy, especially being I've met Jesus and have an even nicer place to go next. I for sure don't want to ever step foot in the states again.

Actually I love it here but there are things that do take time to accept/ignore. The cost of living is really great and is accomplished fairly cheaply but the actual realities of the country and its people do take some getting used to. Thailand is not a "clean" country, far from it and some of the smells here are quite sickening even in the top tourist destinations/cities, thais will throw their rubbish anywhere they want, the streets can be covered in rubbish. In Bangkok of a night the piles of rubbish move because they are full of rats, the stall holders cut up meat/fish etc and just throw the gutts/scraps into the gutter so you can imagine the stench with the heat here. Buildings are not clean, paintwork is really bad, everything is done cheaply as possible so even new buildings turn black and mouldy very quickly and are never touched again. Beaches are covered in rubbish as everything is just thrown on the ground or into the water, I have watched them throw bags of household rubbish into the ocean on one side of a pier then start fishing on the other side.
The majority of thai drivers do not know the road rules(or even have a licence) and simply make them up as they go, overtaking on blind corners over double lines is common, dont use mirrors unless it is to check their complexion at the red lights, that is if they even stop, indicators are rarely used, cars just pull out in front of you, drive the opposite way on the roads so they do not have to do a u turn, stop in the middle of the road to go into a shop so they do not have to walk as far etc etc. You take your life in your hands everytime you go on the road, just look at the death rate on the roads, one of the highest in the world. Police do not patrol the roads so everyone runs red lights, drive the wrong way up a one way street etc. It is very eye opening and then you have the bus drivers that think it is a race and drive well in excess of 100k and are involved in several deaths nearly every week.
Face is the other big thing, if you honk your horn at another driver or say something they dislike it is not uncommon to have a gun waved in your face, they kill each other for talking to their girl friends, arguing over 20 cents with a taxi fare, anything that they percieve as loss of face for them can be a death warrant.
Saying this I still really like it here and doubt I would ever move back to Australia. As long as you are aware of what happens here and avoid confrontations you are ok. There are a lot of expats here that deny these things but they are real and I have only touched on a few of them, there are a lot more but you have to remember that this is not a first world country, it is a developing country and people here do not know any better nor have the education to improve it.
If you want to visit this country go to the out of the way places and not the tourist areas, they are usually set up for sex, drinking and drugs whereas the country areas can be absolutely brilliant, great beaches, beautiful forests and lovely people.

I have been living in northeast Thailand for 30 months now after firstly holidaying here then meeting my now Thai wife online. After 2 years of back and forth to Australia I took early retirement and came here permanently..Understanding the cultural differences is important and I believe it is also advantageous to learn some of the language..This isn't easy in the northeast as unlike Bangkok and Pattaya there aren't any language schools..Patience is important as in my case my wife is an award winning teacher but her English whilst adaquate is basic and therefore sometimes it is necessary to explain many things. There are pros and cons to living here as other expats will attest. I find the biggest annoyance is the lack of driving skill and road law knowledge and lack of policing of same. Where I live seeing 8 to 15 year olds riding the streets on motorcycles is common place. Being run off the road by either cars or trucks and buses is common place and a long drive between cities is very stressfull..
The people are very friendly and in general can't do enough for us, however, trips to Immigration where I leave feeling like I am a criminal make me wonder just how welcome we are here. I have a marriage visa and don't believe in the neccessity of 3 monthly checks when the visa must be renewed every 12 months. Other neighbouring countries are far more welcoming to foreigners with less regulation and costs..
Having said the above I have a lovely Thai family and am happy with my life although like others there are things I used to do in my homeland that I miss..We can't have it always..

Col

I'm a 61 year old expat Aussie now living in Renu Nakhon in the northeast...I agree with everything you have written, the traffic chaos is a common theme amongst expats who are used to more obedient and regulated road use..Given the death and accident carnage in this country it is mind boggling that they do nothing to try and remedy it..Surely introducing a formal driver education system would be a good start and then increasing highway police and getting them to enforce the road laws...I have seen 8 to 10 year olds riding unregistered motorcycles in That Phanom's main street, to school, past manned police huts who do absolutely nothing. I'm as much worried for the Thais' as I am any tourists or expats..

Hello
Loved your blog and I'm from Australia and like you have a lovely Thai wife and 2 Thai teenage daughters one still in High School and the other about to start university...We live near That Phanom in a village near the town of Renu Nakhon...The crazy driving seems to be a common complaint with the expats a product of no formal teaching and very little policing..We drove to Chaing Mai from here once, a journy of some 13 hours...what a nightmare that was...air travel for me and that includes any trips to Bangkok...You could be forgiven for thinking Thais' have a death wish..
I concur with all your comments...If you are ever over this side of Thailand look us up, we have a nice guest room for any visitors [Moderated: pls avoid posting your phone number on a public Forum]
Regards
Colin Uern

When did you move to Thailand? Don't you miss the Wallabies games?
I am from South Africa and hoping (wishing) to also retire in Thailand sooner rather than later!

Hello again,

I moved here in december 2011...There are always going to be things I miss about not being home but I have satellite tv and tune into Australia Channel for sport and see most of what I need to watch re current affairs and sport. Like the other bloggers on this site about the subject of seeing Thailand differently when you live here, you will note the common complaints, the rest is personal choice really..

Col

Thanks for the reply Col. We will be visiting Thailand again pretty soon. Maybe we can hook up and enjoy a rugby game together!!!

Reply #2 was a very good reply...I would add do not wear a gold necklace...do not let your smart phone out of sight...and be careful if someone grabs hold of your arm...your watch may take missing...