Foreign restaurants, chains, franchises- Are they ruining HCMC?

colinoscapee wrote:

Didnt this guy live on 1400 calories a day, nothing to do with Mcdonalds,all to do with the very,very low intake of calories.

It was 2,000 calories a day. The point he was trying to make was, it is about the choices we make. Eating fast food occasionally is not anymore damaging to you than nearly everything else we eat.

colinoscapee wrote:

Didnt this guy live on 1400 calories a day, nothing to do with Mcdonalds,all to do with the very,very low intake of calories.

It's obviously a marketed PR stunt by McDonalds. Again attempting to mislead the public & falsely identify itself as healthy. They have been trying this for years. The Fact that they paid for the the guys food for 90 days is extremely telling. The NBC news clip posted is basically a paid advertisement for McDonalds. NBC are shameful here. But it's worrying that many people seem blind to the obvious realities of fast food in society & would take this campaign as gospel. The obesity problem is a very serious cultural and health dilemma. It has been proven- time & time again to be connected directly to fast food chains and especially their marketing to children as the reason for the growing rate of obesity and other related illnesses.
The very notion that a McDonalds diet is healthy should seem off the map- insane- to any rational thinking human being who has ever even walked into a McDonalds. But as I'm sure you understand- thats what the advertising & marketing departments are paid to do. Make people believe otherwise. Why? $$$
However didn't take long to find many credible counter articles on this 'experiment' from professional dieticians. Heres one.
http://obesitypost.com/yes-can-lose-wei … ats-point/

Paramyd- I suggest you read it too buddy.

As adults we have some understanding about moderation, kids dont and thats the market the fast food companies aim at.. At the end of the day its all about a person being able to moderate their fast food intake. I have lived in Viet Nam for 6 years and have eaten KFC three times over that period, maybe thats taking moderation too far but it works for me.

I agree with "johnnybgood"; the Americanization of Vietnam is nauseating. Importing the worst of the American culture is really disappointing; it tells us the mandarins here are short sighted. Then when you find out the McDonalds' franchise is owned by a relative of the Prime Minister, it is sad, just sad. All the brave Vietnamese soldiers who died for their country must be rolling over in their graves as America slowly but surely takes over Vietnam, spreading the worst excesses wherever they can. As the police clear the sidewalks, they also reduce the flavour of my Vietnam. The changes over the last 7 years are amazing; many motorbike riders are now signalling when they turn, some even have stopped honking their horn for no good reason, roads are better and and ...............

Hun, I never attacked your view on fast food, I simply suggested you get out of the HCMC bubble. If that makes me a PA troll, then oh well! All your replies are aggressiveand long winded, I can see you feel very strongly of what others put in their bodies. This is a nation where smoking and drinking is a daily activity, what more harm can a processed burger do for them?

I do believe wrote:

I agree with "johnnybgood"; the Americanization of Vietnam is nauseating. Importing the worst of the American culture is really disappointing; it tells us the mandarins here are short sighted. Then when you find out the McDonalds' franchise is owned by a relative of the Prime Minister, it is sad, just sad. All the brave Vietnamese soldiers who died for their country must be rolling over in their graves as America slowly but surely takes over Vietnam, spreading the worst excesses wherever they can. As the police clear the sidewalks, they also reduce the flavour of my Vietnam. The changes over the last 7 years are amazing; many motorbike riders are now signalling when they turn, some even have stopped honking their horn for no good reason, roads are better and and ...............

Oh, it's terrible! Air conditioners are getting people sick all the time, people's eyesight is deteriorating due to excessive computer usage at work, sidewalk coffee vendors are forced out of business by coffee shops that dare serve real coffee, meat stalls at local markets are being shunned due to that nasty refrigeration fad that Western-inspired supermarkets have brought into the country. Where does it stop, I ask?

ssuprnova wrote:

I do believe wrote:

I agree with "johnnybgood"; the Americanization of Vietnam is nauseating. Importing the worst of the American culture is really disappointing; it tells us the mandarins here are short sighted. Then when you find out the McDonalds' franchise is owned by a relative of the Prime Minister, it is sad, just sad. All the brave Vietnamese soldiers who died for their country must be rolling over in their graves as America slowly but surely takes over Vietnam, spreading the worst excesses wherever they can. As the police clear the sidewalks, they also reduce the flavour of my Vietnam. The changes over the last 7 years are amazing; many motorbike riders are now signalling when they turn, some even have stopped honking their horn for no good reason, roads are better and and ...............

Oh, it's terrible! Air conditioners are getting people sick all the time, people's eyesight is deteriorating due to excessive computer usage at work, sidewalk coffee vendors are forced out of business by coffee shops that dare serve real coffee, meat stalls at local markets are being shunned due to that nasty refrigeration fad that Western-inspired supermarkets have brought into the country. Where does it stop, I ask?

Don't forget the cars, scooters and buses imported from the Western World. It would have been so much better if we walked all the distances to Hanoi. Oh and the planes. They are the worst. Air pollution which kills the nature. Very bad for our health system!!!!
Ah and the smart phones. My Iphone is really bad for me. It makes me addicted to it and I'm always online. Those WESTERN things are really bad for my Vietnam...

Talk about motes and beams.

Cut the population by 2/3, clean up the littler, install left turn signals, get 90% of the smoke out of the air, THEN maybe I'll worry about there being anything for western franchises to ruin.

And for the record, I eat bình dân all the tỉme.

Parmyd wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Didnt this guy live on 1400 calories a day, nothing to do with Mcdonalds,all to do with the very,very low intake of calories.

It was 2,000 calories a day. The point he was trying to make was, it is about the choices we make. Eating fast food occasionally is not anymore damaging to you than nearly everything else we eat.

Are you actually under the impression that you've successfully made some kind of point?  Seriously?

No American fast food is not, in and of itself, intrinsically fattening, in fact you can eat 1500 calories of fried pork rinds and nothing else and you will lose weight.  But what you did above was post an anecdote and pretend that it in some way refutes the solid peer-reviewed evidence that fast food and soft drinks are the cause of America's rampant obesity problem.

But, seriously, man, how amenable is the American fast food culture to dietary moderation?  It's the very embodiment of excess.  It vehemently encourages More.

Parmyd wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Didnt this guy live on 1400 calories a day, nothing to do with Mcdonalds,all to do with the very,very low intake of calories.

It was 2,000 calories a day. The point he was trying to make was, it is about the choices we make. Eating fast food occasionally is not anymore damaging to you than nearly everything else we eat.

For a completely sedentary person of average size in warm surroundings, that's a net loss of 500 calories per day. 

I think Parmyd is shilling for the corporations.

iOS Freelancer wrote:

Parmyd wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Didnt this guy live on 1400 calories a day, nothing to do with Mcdonalds,all to do with the very,very low intake of calories.

It was 2,000 calories a day. The point he was trying to make was, it is about the choices we make. Eating fast food occasionally is not anymore damaging to you than nearly everything else we eat.

For a completely sedentary person of average size in warm surroundings, that's a net loss of 500 calories per day. 

I think Parmyd is shilling for the corporations.

Either that or he- as some other posters- are utterly ignorant to the ways a typical corporation like McDonalds functions.
btw- I sympathise with your statement about environment, population road safety etc. as quite rightly 'Bigger problems'
I was inquiring specifically into the topic threaded- as it is also quite visibly, tangibly a 'new' problem progressing at an alarming rate. From your commenting, I can see you also understand that fast food/chain stores are at least, unhealthy. So I'm sure you could agree that although it is not as big a problem as say, air pollution or climate change, it is nevertheless worthy of a thread- so to speak. I don't take a defeatist attitude to life- The world is full of problems- but I definitely don't see any problem as 'too small (If that's how you'd consider the aggressive influx & indoctrination of foreign trash culture- with no regulations- into a developing Vietnam) - to at the very least, address on a tiny little website as this.
I'm sure they could be related anyhow- at the very least lumped under a banner of harmful, corporate consumptions having unhealthy or life threatening effects on people & society. However, I'm sure that would need a number of threads to serve any coherence or clarity..
Unfortunately I haven't viewed many threads on population growth or sustainable living or any other of the other important topics you mentioned. But I'd much like to as I believe these topics are also very important & are  generally not addressed enough in developing countries. Or even developed ones for that matter. I don't see the harm in at least discussing or dissecting them intelligently on a platform like this..
In many western countries, (partly to combat the drastic obesity problem-)- Children are now taught in school about the dangerous effects of fast food. Climate Change and it's causes are also in the primary school curriculum. I wonder if Vietnam has plans to adapt the same notions into it's own education system? If not, why not?
Did McDonalds explain to Vietnam that currently, across America, hundreds of workers of Fast food restaurants (including McDonalds & Burger King,) are fighting for a wage that allows them to pay their electricity/gas bills & the basic cost of living?
Of course they don't. Instead people are gradually sucked into the carefully marketed & more convenient advertised notion that they should be grateful McDonalds is now operating here. That It is some kind of privilege, or sign of development to have these digressive, addictive, greedy companies serving up overpriced slop, creating dangerous levels of obesity to their children- whilst luring them subconsciously away from Vietnamese owned businesses & restaurants.
I think that some posters on this site (Definitely not all) need to make a healthy, honest admission or even a contemplation to themselves that perhaps, NOT ALL things foreign, including certain investments- are good news.

You're preaching to the choir.  Seriously, I favor changing tax codes so billionaire status cannot be attained and with one time levy to take the 10+ figure crowd down to 9 or fewer.  And restoring the corporation to its historical norm, as an illegal entity and a right wing absurdity.  Anyway.

No I'm not saying it's OK, I deplore the lack of public information campaigns in the USA, I think people who believe in free markets belong in mental institutions with lots of electrodes and needles.  My point, as I think you see, is that compared to the other things already ruining Vietnam in general and Saigon in particular, one or two burger joints are small ball.  I was just up there yesterday, I still have a headache today and I was only in the city two hours. 

I think VN needs to regulate tobacco and alcohol one hell of a lot more urgently than McD's. 

These guys are taking advantage of an evolutionary holdover from hunter-gatherer days whereby we are predisposed to load up when we can, to enjoy fatty food more than healthy food, because for the vast majority of our histoty we were savages who were mostly hungry.  The goddamn free market is great at giving people what they want, not so good at what they need.

Sorry to be terse but I'm trying to get some bugs fixed here and it's getting late.

One word on the future of Asia and the global invasion of Western aka American fast food culture.
Boombala.

There is no danger of VN being overrun by American fast food franchises and displacing traditional cuisine, much less leading to the same obesity epidemic as the USA.  It's way too expensive to be a regular habit here. 

If anything the influence goes in the other direction.  KFC here has rice combos and the French fries are in far lower demand than in the USA.  Pizza Hut is third rate in America, here it's pretty good and includes seafood pizza I don't think they have in the USA.  The idea that a half dozen burger joints in Vietnam are going to do to its cuisine what American garbage-music has done to traditional Vietnamese music is ludicrous and, frankly, bordering on hysteria.

The big threats to health here are right in front of us.  Smoking among men is exceeded in very few countries, drinking to inebriation is for many a daily activity, heavily sweetened coffee is as bad as soft drinks in the USA. 

I like going to KFC once a month or so.  Sometimes we take our thợ's kids, these kids won't even eat Chinese food but they'll eat KFC chicken and rice because it's really no different than what they get on the street.

MSG , ajinomoto sells more than anything in the supermarkets.
I think Mac focus on hygiene , neat too. Just careful with the calories..

Even if you teach how UNHEALTHY American Fast Food is Locals will not stop. They are curious why it's so popular and eat it but I know that the majority of Vietnamese do not like Western Food. All my friends and family say that they prefer Vietnamese or Asian cuisine over Burger, Fries etc. You should not worry about Vietnamese getting obese because we stick to our cuisine,. Those fatty kids u see at Lotte, KFC are the products of wealthy parents who can afford it. The majority can't afford to eat there daily.
When they get older, about 16 to 19, they recognize that FAT is uncool and try to loose weight. Happens everywhere. Instead of being worried about Vietnam's obesity worry more about the air pollution, corruption, poverty and alcohol consume.

jademan wrote:

Great discussion here. I think this is a deadly serious topic. I have lived in Viet Nam for 17 months now and have watched the changes occurring in HCMC. It is frightening how fast the American conglomerates and food chains are muscling in here. You see a new outlet almost every week. Burger King. KFC. McDonalds. Dunkin Donuts. Dairy Queen. Baskin Robbins. Starbucks. Just in the few neighborhoods that I travel, I have counted over 15 new outlets of these chains over the last year, and I know there are many more. Tragically, the local population are easy 'targets' for these franchises. Most young people here have access to western television and the internet and want to ape and copy western consumerist culture, and that includes our fast food. I am an English teacher and my students are the prime targets of these vampirish corporations. I do my best to educate them, but it's an uphill battle. I teach nutrition every chance I get and show them "Supersize Me" and other videos to wake them up. I do my best to destroy the 'cool' image of these toxic 'restaurants'. I haven't eaten in a fast food franchise in over 20 years. Yeah, I know I'm a little hardcore, but I learned long ago that 'you are what you eat' and factory food ain't what I want to be. To my fellow expats: we know what results when these companies get a foothold into a culture. Share with your Vietnamese friends what you know from your home countries and educate about the dreadful effects of fast food chains.

Thanks for the interesting & excellent post 'jademan'. I too am an english teacher and can relate 100% with what you said about teenagers in the classroom trying to emulate what they see on mainstream western media- often the worst aspects of our 'culture' if you can even call it that. But like you- I believe it's our responsibility as expats to share experience and educate in a compassionate way. It's sad that Western mainstream media is such a strong proponent in shaping locals ideas of western culture. Little do they see or know about films such as 'Supersizeme' or 'Fast Food Nation'- or do they hear any of the common resentments most of us share about these conglomerates & how they have negatively shaped our society. No- of course fast food corporations are not the only problem in our society- But they definitely are a major one & a strong part of a bigger picture concerning how we live as a people. It's actually not just about a hamburger- as some posters here would try to simplify.
Vietnam is a beautiful country despite it's problems. The people are generally warm, wonderful & inspiring from my experience. It's unfortunate to see it's independence being sold down the river like other countries before- that have to a large degree- been ruined by these corporations & lost their sense of culture & community- Forever. So keep up the good work 'jademan' - I think it's more than an uphill battle- but it's a necessary one- & what other option is there- other than to keep hammering away at the edifice..

Don't toss around "addiction" like that.

Western food is too expensive to ever become more than an occasional treat. 

And just in case you think I'm defending corporations, I'd put the executives of McD in the gas chamber for what they've done in the Amazon.

Best way to protect health here would be to ban cigarettes and regulate alcohol.

jademan wrote:

Missmae, why is it one or the other? Yes, cigarette smoking and alcohol abuse are huge problems as well, but why should I then ignore fast food and obesity? While it is true that Vietnamese people prefer their own cuisine to Western food, we are focusing here on the youth. They are going to grow up eating this food, and will quickly develop a preference for it. Soon enough, they will become addicted to it. And while it is true that right now, most of those kids going to these places have rich parents, those are the very kids who will be the leaders and the elite of this country in a few years. You imply that it is just a few kids who are getting fat. Perhaps you need to get out of your house more. Spend a day at schools around HCMC  (both the private and large government schools , as I have) and tell me there is not a serious obesity crisis already. And it is getting worse by the day.

Oh dear I go out every day and I saw them at schools.
I teach to those kids and seriously I don't feel pity for them.
In Asia we show our wealth by feeding our kids fat. The fatter your kid the richer you are.
You should talk to the parents first instead of the Youth because it's a trend like everywhere else. I used to be a teenager too and it was cool to meet up at McDonalds after school. We celebrated the last day of the school there too. Teacher took us there after an excursion. Fast Food & Youngsters belong together. Don't separate this only because you know how unhealthy it is. Don't take away the experiences those kids gonna have.

I'm really tired of all those expats living in Vietnam and feeling that they have to prevent US VIETNAMESE from the soooooo bad Western World.

Worry about yourself first before worrying about our country. Sorry to say but you are an outsider and don't have the right to say what is good for us

missmae wrote:

jademan wrote:

Missmae, why is it one or the other? Yes, cigarette smoking and alcohol abuse are huge problems as well, but why should I then ignore fast food and obesity? While it is true that Vietnamese people prefer their own cuisine to Western food, we are focusing here on the youth. They are going to grow up eating this food, and will quickly develop a preference for it. Soon enough, they will become addicted to it. And while it is true that right now, most of those kids going to these places have rich parents, those are the very kids who will be the leaders and the elite of this country in a few years. You imply that it is just a few kids who are getting fat. Perhaps you need to get out of your house more. Spend a day at schools around HCMC  (both the private and large government schools , as I have) and tell me there is not a serious obesity crisis already. And it is getting worse by the day.

Oh dear I go out every day and I saw them at schools.
I teach to those kids and seriously I don't feel pity for them.
In Asia we show our wealth by feeding our kids fat. The fatter your kid the richer you are.
You should talk to the parents first instead of the Youth because it's a trend like everywhere else. I used to be a teenager too and it was cool to meet up at McDonalds after school. We celebrated the last day of the school there too. Teacher took us there after an excursion. Fast Food & Youngsters belong together. Don't separate this only because you know how unhealthy it is. Don't take away the experiences those kids gonna have.

I'm really tired of all those expats living in Vietnam and feeling that they have to prevent US VIETNAMESE from the soooooo bad Western World.

Worry about yourself first before worrying about our country. Sorry to say but you are an outsider and don't have the right to say what is good for us

Miss Mae, respectfully
Many students/people are very interested to share & learn about a number of topics that may be of no concern to you. Especially fast food chains as it's a new 'phenomenon' here. So although you may not be-  Don't attempt to speak on behalf of a nation. I understand you are frustrated- but you sound absurd & border-lining xenophobic/racist. You are but one in 89 million. Learn to respect that not all Vietnamese people share the same life experiences as yourself. Or the same- apparently, exceptional lifestyle habits..
ESPECIALLY considering that on your bio- you state you were born, raised & educated in Germany??
Doesn't that actually, 'technically' make you Việt Kiều?
ôi trời ơi!  Jeez Louise- christ almighty- send me patience 

missmae wrote:

Worry about yourself first before worrying about our country. Sorry to say but you are an outsider and don't have the right to say what is good for us

Ummmm, wrong.  We're all he same species and what's good for one is with very rare exceptions good for all.  Hygiene and healthy food are good for everyone and we all get heatstroke under the same conditions.

Cultural relativism is mostly a crock.  I'm an American who lived on Vietnamese food for 15 years before moving here (it was mostly better in the USA), and while I deplore the loss of distinctive Vietnamese culture to adoration of everything that is ugly about the west, fast food isn't something I get too worked up about.  If I ever go back to the USA once I'm gorged on Mexican food and Caeser salad I'll be in the Vietnamese restaurants until I leave.

jademan wrote:

IOS Freelancer, I am not 'throwing around' the word 'addiction.' I am using it in a specific and quite literal sense. McDonald's Corporation is known to add addictive chemicals to their food. Do some research. Watch "Supersize Me", and listen to him talk about his feelings of withdrawal once he stopped eating the food and the 'high' he felt when he consumed it again. And what are you talking about when you say 'a few burger joints?' This is deliberately misleading language meant to obfuscate the issue. Compare HCMC today to what is was just a year ago. Or two years ago. And project  5 years into the future. These corporations have big plans for Viet Nam. They're just getting started. When McD's opened last week, there was a long queue down the street. I'm not being 'hysterical.' I'm looking at hard facts. No, Vietnamese food is not going away, and nobody here is going to give up eating Pho. But that doesn't mean there's not a crisis afoot.

Addiction has a specific neurological meaning and it's one of the very most abused words in vulgar parlance.  Addiction means among other things there there is some form of withdrawal upon deprivation and it's based on a pattern of intermittent reward that just doesn't have anything to do with going out for a burger.

I'm not terribly fond of hamburger, I like a cheeseburger maybe once a year and if I don't have one I don't get pyloric spasms or tachycardia. 

I'm a lot lot more concerned about Vietnamese traditional music dying out because people are listening to that cloyingly sentimental vocalist crap and that refried disco they play on those damned preset-keyboards.  That's really happening.  Western food is never going to be more than an occasional outing here.

jademan wrote:

Oh my, Missmae, where do I begin? So in Asian cultures, fat kids are a sign that the parents are wealthy, so parents like their kids to be 'plump', and  that makes it ok? When kids become obese at a very young age, they get a variety of health issues  that come with that. Furthermore, it becomes extremely difficult to lose that weight when they become older. Good health habits learned at an early age carry over into adulthood, and vice versa.
'Fast food and kids go together'? Boy, McDonalds has brainwashed you so well. I can see you have been lapping up their commercials with gusto. That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. I am not trying to DENY my students anything. On the contrary, I am trying to GIVE  them a gift- the gift of good health. I studied nutrition for years and it would be irresponsible of me to not share what I know. And please, don't frame this as an issue of an arrogant foreigner telling the 'locals' what to do. You're trying to steer  the issue into racist terminology.

I'm in full agreement here but you'll note that fattening kids as a supremely grotesque display of ostentation needs no assistance from western franchises and predates the earliest of them by millennia.  This ostentation takes many forms, I've seen Vietnamese walk away from a table with 2/3 of the food uneaten because clearing the plate might look poor, just like a decent tan or some muscle.  This is an ugly side of deeply ingrained cultural reaction to poverty and wealth and is completely orthogonal to the discussion so I hope nobody invokes it again.

Funnily enough McDonalds is owned by the Prime Ministers Son in Law. As to the others they are preparing to flood in next year because of the World Trade Organisations requirements. So prepare for your worst nightmare - I agree these places will decimate local businesses and culture.

About as much as Nordstrom killed Sears and The Gap

As per the saying....profits before people.

A cheeseburger costs as much as feeding a family of four two days.  People aren't going to switch their diets to American grease.  It's just not going to happen. 

Worry about the traditional music.  It's in real peril.  Everyone is listening to disposable schmaltz.

Good things die all the time,
God bless your heart, vengeance is mine.
"Kiss me like you mean goodbye," said the spider to the fly.
When all those times you thought that you were wrong, you were right.

I'm the most bitter cynic drawing breath, or thought I was, that's too nihilistic for me.

Take Me In, Vietnam," Sighed the Snake
"I took you in," Cried Vietnam
"And You've Bitten Me, But Why?
You Know Your Bite Is Poisonous and Now I'm Going to Die"
"Oh Shut Up, Said the Reptile With a Grin
"You Knew Damn Well I Was a Snake Before You Took Me in
"Take Me In, Oh Tender Vietnam

Back to Burger - Go try  Chuck's Eatery on 27 Tran Nhat Duat to get the best burgers in town. I often eat here when I crave American burgers and Charlie, the owner is sooo laid back and cool.
Thanks mate for that great tip about Chuck's. I have ridden past it on my way to a cosy French Restaurant just around the corner and wrote it off as a trashy American Hamburger joint along with all the other US Franchises you find in District 7. Now I know different I will try it out for a good hamburger. I rarely eat anything but Vietnamese as my partner is a Chef and so if we are not eating street food I eat her French cooking instead.

And last of all I loathe Maccas and for all it stands for.

What is Maccas?

I do believe wrote:

What is Maccas?

Maccas is Aussie speak for Macdonalds Hamburger chain.
Aussie is Aussie speak for Australian.
Seppo is rhyming slang for American as in Septic tank - Yank then shortened to Seppo which is the Aussie way as in Arvo for afternoon and G'Day for Good Day.
There endith the lesson in Aussie coloqualisms. LOL

jademan wrote:

This is not a thread about where to find the best burger in District 1. If you want to discuss that, may I suggest you start a new thread. Cheers.

It's not exactly "unrelated," you know.

Quit playing topic cop. The mods suffer from "an excess of zeal" already

jademan wrote:

This is not a thread about where to find the best burger in District 1. If you want to discuss that, may I suggest you start a new thread. Cheers.

I am sorry my thanking a member for his post has upset you but I remember this forum being a friendly one where expats shared tips and helped each other but now it seems to have become a place of bitchiness and ridicule. Some of the comments made about each others posts shocks me and it was one of the reasons I wanted to unsubscribe from this forum but the owners pleaded with me to reconsider as my posts were informative and helpful. I thinks its time to leave this forum for good.

iOS Freelancer wrote:

A cheeseburger costs as much as feeding a family of four two days.  People aren't going to switch their diets to American grease.  It's just not going to happen. 

Worry about the traditional music.  It's in real peril.  Everyone is listening to disposable schmaltz.

Vietnams population is actually, steadily becoming wealthier, IOS Freelancer. And you are obviously not counting the many people who are already filthy rich or in the upper margins. Vietnam is a developing country & it is a good thing that many people are beginning to make more money. - But It didn't take the fast food chains long to realise this fact & snap on it- Hence the commercial onslaught we are now seeing. I can't understand why you seem so obtuse to it. Not everybody will be affected by it initially, but you'll see some drastic changes over time. As more & more open up & as the populations wealth gradually increases with the standard of living. There is concrete evidence- (especially in China which has had fast food chains for about a decade longer than Vietnam & is now currently hosting over 1000 McDonalds stores alone- ) that a large percentage of people - especially young people- are addicted to these chains. Did you know you can buy an ice cream cone at a Burger King for 3,000 VND? And that there are plenty of other unhealthy things on their menu that the larger percentage of the Vietnamese population can easily afford? In 2014? - I know this because some of my students have told me- they eat them EVERYDAY. You totally underestimate the power of the huge marketing machine behind these chains- You seem oblivious to the notion that they have perhaps thought about the average wage of a Vietnamese citizen and how it's likely to grow or fluctuate,  before they opened up shop. It's basic commerce.
As I've said in many posts here- Obesity, diabetes & other health related sicknesses are just one aspect of the negative effects these chains will have.  As a music lover- I am also fond of traditional Vietnamese music. Infact I love it. & like you IOS, I loathe V pop and Vinahouse as I see them as imitational & generic. But musical tastes can be acknowledged as temporary & changeable. Furthermore I have no problem with people enjoying the music they like. Whether I like it or not. I'm just happy if people are passionate about music & that it moves them & makes them happy.
But it's a totally different kettle of fish we are talking about here. Unhealthy institutions/establishments that are setting up permanently -without restriction-  with every likely intention of continuously expanding until the very identity of the city is swallowed. This is not hyperbole. It's reality. Vietnam should become educated on the effects of these fast food chains ASAP.
Your posts strike me as someone who has perhaps not spent a great deal of time in HCMC recently. But since your so against the idea of disposable music- But strangely partial to fast food restaurants-  I'll put a question to you. What affect do you think these fast food chains will have on certain aspects of vietnamese culture. the slowly emerging independent music scene?  I can't see them promoting unique or independent music- can you?  No. Their very nature is to push the same tacky, vacuous, americanised, commercial, superficial, idea of 'culture'  in every country they invade. Wasn't it the singer from N Sync who sang 'I'm lovin it'  ?
In Australia, some time ago, we unaffectionately coined McDonalds and other fast food chains as 'CULTURE EATERS' because, well, that's exactly what they are. Not only do they create serious levels of unhealthy people, they literally destroy cultures.
But back to obesity for now- I found this video that was posted last week on RT. What a hilarious campaign. Further evidence of an inherently sick culture. Heres the link below.
youtube.com/watch?v=YWKnY1z3ohg

Here's a better quality link to the same video posted above.
youtube.com/watch?v=Zijd22zgNNg

jademan wrote:

Relax dirtypierre. Bitchiness and ridicule? Please show me where I engaged in such and I will repent. I made a simple observation about your post. Apparently, you got offended.

Well, you disagree, and snidely, with everything that anyone else says.  Unless they agree with you on every particular.

Fact is, not many see this as monstrous as you do.

Now call me some name.  Dismiss my opinion.

See if I care.

DirtyPierre wrote:

jademan wrote:

This is not a thread about where to find the best burger in District 1. If you want to discuss that, may I suggest you start a new thread. Cheers.

I am sorry my thanking a member for his post has upset you but I remember this forum being a friendly one where expats shared tips and helped each other but now it seems to have become a place of bitchiness and ridicule. Some of the comments made about each others posts shocks me and it was one of the reasons I wanted to unsubscribe from this forum but the owners pleaded with me to reconsider as my posts were informative and helpful. I thinks its time to leave this forum for good.

I can handle rude people, after all I'm an American.  There are some jerks on this forum and a disproportionate number of them have VIP status which seems to confer carte blanche to act like a dick.

But the real problem here us the mods.  They're scoldy, overzealous, and censoring.  Half of them don't even read English and they respond to emails with canned templates.  They remove any URL 'for review" which is to say, forever.  If they were working for me, I'd fire them.

My partner is also a member, we live in the same house and have the same IP as far as the outside world is concerned.  We keep getting banned for that.  Whoever is administering the server rules is extremely ignorant.