Why don't Vietnamese understand Vietnamese spoken by a foreigner?

The point is not about you guys pronounced correctly or not. We could understand everything when we listen to a foreigner speaking vns. I think the guy whom you talked to was not trying to understand you or he was so lazy to think. Btw, the way when you speak vns is totally different compare to the way a vns does. So don't get frustrated about it. Every times when a foreigner talk to me in vns, I could understand all .

hoanghai9x wrote:

The point is not about you guys pronounced correctly or not. We could understand everything when we listen to a foreigner speaking vns. I think the guy whom you talked to was not trying to understand you or he was so lazy to think. Btw, the way when you speak vns is totally different compare to the way a vns does. So don't get frustrated about it. Every times when a foreigner talk to me in vns, I could understand all .

' Btw, the way when you speak vns is totally different compare to the way a vns does '.
Of course, its called an accent, when I teach my little gremlins, I use speech therapy, with diagrams on tongue position, etc, ( Lane's English ), I find this is a great help, especially words which start or end with TH.
      I wish I could find a Viet equivalent, anyone know of any?

I've been living in Vietnam for two years now, and while I experienced the same frustration that most of the readers of this post have mentioned, I have gradually seen the clouds part and find that - most of the time any more, anyway  - when I speak to people here they understand me quite well. Maybe people are friendlier because I'm in a smaller town (Nha Trang), but I suspect that a large amount of listening drill has helped. I agree that to a certain extent there is a problem with people freezing up in the presence of a foreigner, but good pronunciation really does make a great difference. Tones are critical, and every tone must be clearly pronounced; the relationship between tones in two adjacent syllables ("tone sandhi" to linguists) is also important. But most foreigners neglect the fact that proper pronunciation of vowel sounds is equally important. Vietnamese is very unforgiving about not getting the vowel sounds right, and this is complicated by the fact that Vietnamese vowel sounds are not quite the same as ones in any western language, both in terms of length and quality. In fact, this can even make you more incomprehensible than getting the tone wrong. Vietnamese are not stupid or lazy; after living in China and Thailand before this, my opinion is that Vietnamese by comparison are almost unfailingly polite and hardworking. The point is well taken about people being more shy around foreigners, at first anyway, which shows in that people will understand you better the second time they see you.

I think we all share the same frustration, and while part of it is probably that they don't expect to hear VN from a white face, it is also probably true that we are not speaking as well as we think we are. That being said, in certain situations the context should be a clue even if the pronunciation is not all there. Ex. Ordering a drink in a café, that fact we are in a café and you are the waiter and I am asking for some sort of beverage should lead you to connect the dots, fill in the blanks so to speak, and come to the right answer, but here that seems beyond everybody. If they roles were reversed and you were asking for a “burr” or “bere” or something close I would naturally know you were wanting a beer.
I have definitely come across the old pretend not to understand trick, usually followed by them replying in English worse than my Vietnamese as if to try and prove a point (your VN is rubbish and my English is perfect). Bo tay!!

Totally agree NicoM, the amount of times I have gone to a cafe vong and asked for trà xanh and got that finger waggle is mind blowing. Some of these places sell about 10 different drinks and thats it, if you cant figure from the 10 possibiltities then maybe a change a job is needed.

"NICOM".. I couldnt agree with you more....

i went to big c one day..... .. not sure what happen... but. before i could say a word...to
the lady (Viet) in front of me..she  waved  me off... ( saying.. i dont understand, i dont want to hear you.. i dont give a S88T )

How i know???, cause my Viet friend was with me... and translated for me.

So told my friend.. plz tell her.. .. before waving me off next time, to give me a chance and listen to me..... to try to understand me... it could of been something simple.. ( Xin Loi ) F**K!!

Lol…I know how you feel. I remember in Hanoi walking into a shoe shop to get a repair done, said “Chao Anh” in a friendly manner  to the shop owner, he waved his hand dismissively (as only the Vietnamese know how) said no firmly and told me to get out…it was normal business hours, the shop was open and there were other clients being served. Maybe he had had a bad experience with a Tay before, or maybe he just couldn't be bothered trying to deal with those pesky foreigners…..

Hanoi is the only place I have been told "no" before even asking for anything,it happened twice, so we just moved on to the shop till we got served.

Ahhh friendly Hanoi, I spent more than 2 years living there for some reason...so many memories....I thought all Vietnamese loved those Uncle Ho's, but seems not...

Yeah... Hanoi.. is a place. i dont missed at all!!!!!

But.. guys.. LEt me say this... it also happens here. in HCMC 

I went to scope around for a barber shop.... 

i parked in front... of the place. .and asked the person inside... excuse me... do you cut hair...while they used their text phone "

( GUESS WHAT KIND OF ANSWER I GOT BACK )  (WAVING HANDS) LOL

As some poster mentioned above and before, Tones are critical in speaking Vietnamese. hell, it's half of the difference between various dialects in Vietnam.

Intonation at the wrong place, as well as wrong tone, and your message is simply lost. As I'm sure you've heard of Indian English, or Japanese English. Engrish, I believe you name it.

Fear of losing face is one factor, and the difficulty of communicating with a foreign speak half-understandable can go a long way toward making them feel awkward. Sothe owners just say No and deal with that later. Employee may not have that latitude and may try to deal with customers. The aberrant shop clerk that wave foreigners away is an exception, I suspect.

Never underestimate the power of a small pen and note pad. Or, hell, whip out your phone and type on that. What's so difficult about it?

Happens in other language groups too.

The Carolinas, in the States speak very sloooly.

Even in Canada, where the Rockies prevented the 'average' Canadian dialect from permeating Vancouver - until TV came along. BC is to Canada as California is to the US - where our whackos migrate to.

Still effective in Newfoundland pronounciation.

On the surface of it, I have a hard time buying into this per se; if this were true, then Vietnamese would never learn how to pronounce English correctly.

I speak Thai and Chinese and I have no trouble making myself understood in those countries, a fact which has made me seriously wonder why people have a hard time understanding me here in Vietnam. Tones - true, to some extent, but it's not the only problem, and to concentrate on that as the only problem is overkill.

Vietnamese pronunciation is extremely unforgiving. If in Chinese I said the word "dou", I could pronounce it (using phonetics) like /dow/ /dəw/ or even /du/ and I would be understood. The same is unthinkable in Vietnamese. If I pronounce "tang", pronouncing the "a" as in English "father", Vietnamese have trouble determining whether I have said tang, tăng, tâng or even tong. The margin for error is tiny.

Also, there are indeed social factors that I think westerners find difficult or impossible to comprehend, much less deal with, and it's worth pointing out that this situation is not unique to Vietnam; early western visitors to Japan claimed much the same problem - that the Japanese couldn't - or wouldn't - understand foreigners talking to them in their own language.

Palomanik said "Also, there are indeed social factors that I think westerners find difficult or impossible to comprehend, much less deal with, and it's worth pointing out that this situation is not unique to Vietnam; early western visitors to Japan claimed much the same problem - that the Japanese couldn't - or wouldn't - understand foreigners talking to them in their own language."
I don't agree with Palomaniks original first statement but his last paragraph is right on in many cases. No language has to be spoken perfectly and my lousy Vietnamese is understood by most once they realize that's what I am speaking. Many Vietnamese are not expecting you to speak Vietnamese so therefore you are not.

I have the same relatives that always never understand what I say in Vietnamese and need others to translate. I never have problems with the educated ones understanding my Vietnamese. Some don't have good listening skills.

I do believe wrote:

Palomanik said "Also, there are indeed social factors that I think westerners find difficult or impossible to comprehend, much less deal with, and it's worth pointing out that this situation is not unique to Vietnam; early western visitors to Japan claimed much the same problem - that the Japanese couldn't - or wouldn't - understand foreigners talking to them in their own language."
I don't agree with Palomaniks original first statement but his last paragraph is right on in many cases. No language has to be spoken perfectly and my lousy Vietnamese is understood by most once they realize that's what I am speaking. Many Vietnamese are not expecting you to speak Vietnamese so therefore you are not.

Regarding the problem in Japan a hundred years ago, it's worth noting that a lot of Japanese were reticent to speak to foreigners because they didn't know how to properly address them; this was such a problem that the government actually investigated the matter at the time to determine the proper way to address foreigners! While it would be pushing the analogy too far to say the same about the Vietnamese, the fact is also true that in Vietnam what you say to people is perhaps not as important as how you say it.

I find the same problem here in the Vietnamese community in the U.S.. Some will understand me, while others will not. That includes my wife, who often has to have me repeat things ad naseum before she gets it. I suspect that those who do understand me are used to fractured tone-incorrect speech and pick up my meaning in the context. So, more work on tones is needed in my case.

Good point on the vowels. Spanish has only five vowels, but the great majority of native-English Spanish speakers I know fail to master the vowels. ditto with the pronounciation of the French "e" versus "i". And Vietnamese can give one problems with the pronounciation of certain final consonants. So it's just like crossing the street in front of the Ben Thanh market. There you keep your eyes open at all times. With Vietnamese, it's keep your ears open at all times

Like I said, keep a pen/paper handy. Or pull out your phone. Translate the toneless words must be easier than listening.

palomnik wrote:

On the surface of it, I have a hard time buying into this per se; if this were true, then Vietnamese would never learn how to pronounce English correctly.

I speak Thai and Chinese and I have no trouble making myself understood in those countries, a fact which has made me seriously wonder why people have a hard time understanding me here in Vietnam. Tones - true, to some extent, but it's not the only problem, and to concentrate on that as the only problem is overkill.

Vietnamese pronunciation is extremely unforgiving. If in Chinese I said the word "dou", I could pronounce it (using phonetics) like /dow/ /dəw/ or even /du/ and I would be understood. The same is unthinkable in Vietnamese. If I pronounce "tang", pronouncing the "a" as in English "father", Vietnamese have trouble determining whether I have said tang, tăng, tâng or even tong. The margin for error is tiny.

Also, there are indeed social factors that I think westerners find difficult or impossible to comprehend, much less deal with, and it's worth pointing out that this situation is not unique to Vietnam; early western visitors to Japan claimed much the same problem - that the Japanese couldn't - or wouldn't - understand foreigners talking to them in their own language.

And listen/speaking English is a very hard skills in Vietnamese students indeed. Translate/read/write is no problem.

Listening to and understanding English (by a Vietnamese person) is very difficult. The schwa is the problem.

I dunt know how can u guys experience. Bút the funniest thing i found that i cant understand vnese in english vietnamese dict for foreigners.  They sound really weird, the international translation cant express right pronuncition of vnese @@

ngoc anh nguyen thi wrote:

I dunt know how can u guys experience. Bút the funniest thing i found that i cant understand vnese in english vietnamese dict for foreigners.  They sound really weird, the international translation cant express right pronuncition of vnese @@

Hi Thi - I'm not really sure what you wrote but perhaps that's because it's late and I'm tired.

Study a pronunciation course in English actually can help, especially when it's taught by a Vietnamese. When I was in Uni,I studied in Hanoi university of foreign studies, now Hanoi university. They had an old professor teaching that course. Though it's about English language, he taught the revelant parts relating to Vietnamese. It really helped.

Pronunciation* sorry, my typing. I found some Vietnamese dictionary in bookstores. The words are translated by international translation and they are not right, not like what exactly Vietnamese say

I think the matter is simple.
Firstly, Say phrase that actually use in reality not in the book. just observe.
Secondly, use gestures.I almost can't understand English without illustrate gestures

ParadiseCruiser wrote:

Study a pronunciation course in English actually can help, especially when it's taught by a Vietnamese. When I was in Uni,I studied in Hanoi university of foreign studies, now Hanoi university. They had an old professor teaching that course. Though it's about English language, he taught the revelant parts relating to Vietnamese. It really helped.

PC, Absolutely! most of us rush in a try to speak a language without mastering the difficulties and idiosyncrasies of pronunciation.  Many language courses, realizing this trait among students, brush over pronunciation to get to the vocabulary and syntax bits, when they should be concentrating on how vowels and consonants sound when spoken correctly. A home country native speaker who has mastered English pronunciation is the best person to teach the first phase of any English course, because they know the tricks and pitfalls by first-hand experience.

just practice with 50 words untill you are really good at them.  If you guys are available, dont hesitate to contact me

Do you guys know that even Vietnamese is having problems understanding Vietnamese spoken by other Vietnamese from different regions? People from the North speak with different accent from those spoken by people from the Central or people from the South. It will depend a lot on who you are talking with. If you talk to a Vietnamese who travels a lot, or is used live in different regions of Vietnam, and has experiences speaking/working with foreigners, you have more chances to be understood. I'm from the North, have been speaking and listening Vietnamese for more than 40 years, I travel quite a bit, I have been living in the South (HCMC) for more than 6 years, but I sometimes cannot understand what my maid (a Vietnamese from a province in the South of Vietnam, has been working for me for more than 3 years) says to me in Vietnamese. So please, don't be frustrated.

Gahaahaha

My relatives in Nghe An, a province in the central region, speak their local dialect , tieng Nghe, and nearly incomprehensible to me. After 20 years of biyearly visits, I finally can understand about 80% of what they said.

The Vietnamese dialect of provinces south of Hue city can be quite incomprehensible in another way.

Shelf-Agent wrote:

Do you guys know that even Vietnamese is having problems understanding Vietnamese spoken by other Vietnamese from different regions? People from the North speak with different accent from those spoken by people from the Central or people from the South. It will depend a lot on who you are talking with.

Yes, and I know that anybody who has tried to learn Vietnamese has heard this, probably several times. However, after learning Chinese and Thai and encountering constant encouragement from locals when making the effort to speak it, it is very, VERY discouraging for a foreigner to try to speak Vietnamese here and encounter nothing but the hand waggle in response. I was recently in Bali, and any effort to speak even a few words of Indonesian, to say nothing of Balinese, was greeted with an almost rapturous response. The difference from Vietnam was amazing.

It in fact, the typical response in Vietnam discourages foreigners from even making the effort. After all, why try if nobody cares? If somebody could explain why this is the typical response in Vietnam it might help considerably. Instead, foreigners are left to make their own conclusions, which are generally not flattering to the Vietnamese.

Maybe Indonesian are more friendly and/or Bali is famous place for tourist. For me thing is you just learn some words today and you will forget them tomorrow ( when you left). So i dont want to spend time to correct them. Vietnamese language needs seriously at least six months.
They dont understand what you says thats why you get a hand waggle. Just think that they are shy because they cannot speak English

palomnik wrote:

It in fact, the typical response in Vietnam discourages foreigners from even making the effort. After all, why try if nobody cares? If somebody could explain why this is the typical response in Vietnam it might help considerably. Instead, foreigners are left to make their own conclusions, which are generally not flattering to the Vietnamese.

Dear, we care so much, for sure. We feel very interested when we hear a foreigner speaks Vietnamese. And surprise too. Maybe because many Vietnamese are not good at English, they always try to learn but they can't speak English well. When they hear you guys speak Vietnamese, they feel interesting so that they don't pay attention to hear, hic.

When I study English at my University, my English teacher sometimes speaks Vietnamese, he made us very surprised and wondered: why he is good at Vietnamese? Vietnamese is hard to learn....

But until now, I know that you guys can speak many languages, not only 1 language.
So, try to learn Vietnamese, we are happy for that, we will try to understand you guys. Maybe we need time to understand your efforts.

I admire your 6 years of the studying.
About "Khỏe không?" problem:
1/ Khỏe is same same pronounce with Khẻo, which is bad meaning.
2/ it is culture matter: just say "Khỏe không?" with your friends or acquaitances; and have not met together for some days at least. For strangers, it is not the way.

Vietnamese and all others(I think that) are happy if other people speak in their language except some ones who want to practice your language.

Vietnamese grammar is accepted easily. The problem is your pronounciation. So, just practice  your  pronounciation of about 50 words pls. There are 6 tunes in Vietnamese, firstly you should practice just about 10 words for each tune, for example:
- Words for the first tune: không, a,  đi, đưa, mua, ăn, thu,...
- words for the second tune: nặng, nhẹ, điện, nộp,...
- words for third tune: huyền, c, tiền, phiền, miền, thiền,...
- words for fourth tune: sắc, báo, phí, gắng,...
- words for fith tune: hỏi, ngủ, đủ, hiển, bảo,...
- words for sixth tune: ngã, đã, xã, nghĩ, sỹ,...

Just practice pronounciation for about 50 words, do it in whole days and nights if possible, Dont spend your time for other things, you will find it amazing after some months. The rest will be easier

I will talk about Vietnamese grammar in easy way later when i have time

I don't speak Vietnamese well yet, but my experience is that very often the shop assistant, waiter, whatever simply doesn't believe that you have spoken Vietnamese to them. I get it all the time and my (Vietnamese) wife tells me that when I speak the few words of Vietnamese that I know, my pronunciation is perfect.

Should speak with true tone.

emmy.vn wrote:

Should speak with true tone.

Not really emmy, many Vietnamese understand Vietnamese with an accent as they are continually correcting my pronunciation even when I speak correctly. The previous poster made a good comment when he said many Vietnamese have decided you aren't speaking Vietnamese regardless of your skill. There is no language in the world that requires perfection in pronunciation to be understood. Although correct pronunciation does help, it is a never ending learning process with different Vietnamese coaching against each other on some words. In America about 400 million people will understand poorly spoken English but the percentage of comprehension is much lower in Vietnam as the average Vietnamese is not commonly exposed to foreigner speech.

I do. That isn't the problem. Many foreigners say the same thing. We can pronounce the words perfectly in Vietnamese, but the person we are talking to just doesn't hear us. They just don't believe we are talking their language I think the problem is related mainly  to people who have not much experience in dealing with foreigners.

Should learn the accent of the place where you are living to undertand what they speak
But should pratice the accent of Hanoi. Most of people can understand it because it is used on official media, and the northern people live everywhere in Vietnam so the accent is more popular and can be understood. Otherwise Hanoi accent is considered pronoucing clearly.
Just be patient.

Apropos of all this, an interesting incident happened to me today.

I was eating lunch in a restaurant. The waitress came over and said something to me. I didn't understand what she said.

I asked her to repeat it. I still didn't understand what she said.

Finally it dawned on me that she was speaking English. Once I realized that, I could put together what she was saying.

It seems to me that this is the same kind of thing that happens to Vietnamese when they hear a foreigner trying to speak their language.

@palomnik :
I guess the heavy Vietnamese accent interfered with how well you can understand her. The same probably applies when you speak Vietnamese.

I honestly think accents do not play an important role in most cases when it comes to speaking Vietnamese.
Just speak slowly to them. I guess it will take them a few seconds to try to figure out what you mean. Eventually, they will get it.

Many Vietnamese are surprised when a foreigner starts speaking in Vietnamese to them. This could be a reason why people panic and assume what you say does not make sense. It is easier for them to speak in English to you ( if they know how to )