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Karma points

What's the point of having Karma points?  I don't think anyone pays attention to them.

Don't forget that your karma can be seen by everyone as a token of trust: the higher it is, the more trustworthy you are

I think the rank/number of posts an Expat makes and how long they've been registered usually is a first indicator of how trustworthy a person is more so than karma stars.  The content in one's post actually shows how knowledgeable a person is...giving good factual advice gains trust...spewing unverified opinion doesn't. 

Like, I think I just earned 1 star today but have no idea how I did it nor do I care.  People trust me because if I am uncertain about an answer, I google verify it.   

Why don't we do something more with Karma points like earning Expat-Blog T-shirts or something.  Actual rewards such as souvenirs will probably entice people more to pursue karma stars/points (i.e. a pen, coffee cup, autographed photoshopped photo of Julien shaking hands with Expat-member).

I do not agree about the number of post, there are some people who only write crap on the forum and they have a high rank.
Are they trustful or reliable? I don't think so.
Even the time how long some one is registered is not an indication.

I don't want to be personal but if I look at your register date and the number of post you wrote I can see that you are relative new and have more posts then I have in one year.
But I can not see if you are knowledgeable.
Therefor I have to check all your post to know if you do.

But agree with you that the Karma thing is a little vague and I like your idea about the autographed photo shopped photo from Julian.
Shaking hands with him is a little bit difficult.

Primadonna is exactly on point. The number of posts one makes is rather misleading since anyone can simply flood the forums with "Hi I'm new here :)" and that has no indication whatsoever of the QUALITY or RELIABILITY of the information they are sharing with other members.

The Karma points, while not being too specific, tend to be a better indicator of this since they take into account not only the number of postings, but also articles written for the forum guide, classified ads, etc.

That said, I think that an actual "recommendation score" - a number would actually be more meaningful. Until something better comes along we've got Karma.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil & Canada Expert, Expat-blog Team

wjwoodward :

Primadonna is exactly on point. The number of posts one makes is rather misleading since anyone can simply flood the forums with "Hi I'm new here :)" and that has no indication whatsoever of the QUALITY or RELIABILITY of the information they are sharing with other members.

The Karma points, while not being too specific, tend to be a better indicator of this since they take into account not only the number of postings, but also articles written for the forum guide, classified ads, etc.

That said, I think that an actual "recommendation score" - a number would actually be more meaningful. Until something better comes along we've got Karma.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil & Canada Expert, Expat-blog Team

You guys are misreading my statement.  I said the number of posts "usually is a first indicator of how trustworthy a person is more so than karma stars.  Because the karma stars are useless, the number of posts are a better indicator than the karma stars.  If you hover over the karma stars, it states "Don't forget that your karma can be seen by everyone as a token of trust: the higher it is, the more trustworthy you are".  In itself, the number of posts isn't a trust indicator but just tells you it's someone who just posts alot.  You would need to go and read each posts to find out more about the person.

How about like an Ebay system where other people vouch for you?  Maybe link the karma to that?  I think I remember another site...travelbuddy or something that had this feature.  Such as if a member actually MET another member in real life, they verify the member as real. 

In Expat-Blog's case, maybe for example, someone asked about Visas and a member gave a verifiable truthful answer, the ASKER can come back and say "yah, that post was helpful".  We'd have to come up with a system to avoid fraud though.  Ebay had the same problem.

Tran Hung Dao :

I said the number of posts "usually is a first indicator of how trustworthy a person is more so than karma stars.  Because the karma stars are useless, the number of posts are a better indicator than the karma stars.

I have to disagree with you completely on that statement. I'm involved in a number of international forums outside of Expat-blog, on various subjects some related to expats others not. I can tell you from personal experience that....


THE NUMBER OF POSTINGS IS ABSOLUTELY THE LEAST RELIABLE METHOD OF DETERMINING THE QUALITY, HONESTY AND VALUE OF ANY GIVEN MEMBER... ABSOLUTELY THE WORST

I trust people based on how well I know them, not on post count, register date, karma or cuteness of avatar.

To get more karma points you have to participate in different areas of the site.  I have no use for the business directory and housing section and I gave up on the pictures section a long time ago.  I'm exclusively on the forums, so I'll never have more than 2 stars.  Even so, I'll probably survive.  I think the karma thing was added as an experiment and Julien & co have better things to do than worry about it now.

Tran Hung Dao :

In Expat-Blog's case, maybe for example, someone asked about Visas and a member gave a verifiable truthful answer, the ASKER can come back and say "yah, that post was helpful".

That's not going to happen.  I've never seen anyone come back after their problem was solved and tell us what happened.

wjwoodward :

THE NUMBER OF POSTINGS IS ABSOLUTELY THE LEAST RELIABLE METHOD OF DETERMINING THE QUALITY, HONESTY AND VALUE OF ANY GIVEN MEMBER... ABSOLUTELY THE WORST

You're misunderstanding what he's saying.  Or I am.  He's taking the karma thing a little too seriously and saying it's far more arbitrary than post count and therefore less reliable.  He's not saying that post count is an indication of trustworthiness.

TDH,

Is there ANYTHING that you like about Expat-blog? I'm rather curious about this.

I would assume he likes posting here, but this brings up an interesting point.  Does liking a site mean you have to agree with everything?  Why are people always blasted when they make suggestions for improvement?  Yes, there have been some really stupid ideas over the years, but shouldn't suggestions in the "help us improve the website" forum be tolerated?

Sometimes there are good suggestions but what they going to do with it, is a mystery.

I think that the focus from the team on this moment is something else.

This is rather exhausting. TDH, are you trying to flood the forums to create more karma points for yourself? If you don't have anything positive to say please don't say it.

Guys, please ...

THD ideas and suggestions are definitely interesting, and they will give me a chance to explain my thoughts.

This said, I must apologize for being away for a few days (travel & got sick).


Please note I've been working on the project for more than 8 years and the karma only appeared last year. Why ?

Because quantity doesn't necessarily means quality.

For our new members, as in Ebay (great example), it's important to know who they can trust, or not.

Our readers have important decisions to make (guys, EB is about moving far from your relatives, starting a new life ...), and we needed another indicator. Some kind of "trust rank" or Karma.

Our karma algorithm is currently mostly based on two things:

> your participation to the different sections of the website (posting articles in the guide is btw the best way to earn stars)

> on a combination of the "like" or "recommend" you receive from the members of the website.

THD, you surely received one more star because a lot of people clicked on the "recommend" link (on your test thread, I am sure you'll remember it)

We had two main ideas with the Karma :

> to give more exposure to quality content and their authors

> to introduce a new kind of trust system for newcomers


Why don't we do something more with Karma points like earning Expat-Blog T-shirts or something.  Actual rewards such as souvenirs will probably entice people more to pursue karma stars/points (i.e. a pen, coffee cup, autographed photoshopped photo of Julien shaking hands with Expat-member).

We actually started a project like this a few years ago, but we couldn't go ahead as it was too complicated for our small structure. But sending goodies is definitely a good idea. Let's see if we can arrange something in 2014

Julien :

...
THD ideas and suggestions are definitely interesting, and they will give me a chance to explain my thoughts.

...
We had two main ideas with the Karma :

> to give more exposure to quality content and their authors

> to introduce a new kind of trust system for newcomers

...
We actually started a project like this a few years ago, but we couldn't go ahead as it was too complicated for our small structure. But sending goodies is definitely a good idea. Let's see if we can arrange something in 2014

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  I agree with the concept of building trust, just not sure users are utilizing it (You could probably scan through the statistics on how many percentage of users engage actively in pursuing karma points...or do a survey).

Julien :

(posting articles in the guide is btw the best way to earn stars)

Out of curiosity, how does one post an article?

Although I don't know Tran Hung Dao personally I will say that he has been a huge help to others on the Vietnam forums. He does tend to to get a little anal(no disrespect meant) about somethings but overall he is a big help to some people. It is very rare for someone to post a serious question and not get a detailed response from THD.

HaileyinHongKong :
Julien :

(posting articles in the guide is btw the best way to earn stars)

Out of curiosity, how does one post an article?

I am curious also.  HOW??

To write an article in the Guide, just click on GUIDE in the menu bar at the top of the page. In the new window click on the "Write an article" button.

Hello guys,

some sort of "karma guide" is needed. We'll write one - just a matter of time :)

Karma, Karma, Karma, Karma, karma Chameleon..... :lol:

Any Boy George Fans??

BTW: I totally understand if you ban me for this terrible joke.

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