Living in the DQ

I understand your reasoning, but the DQ has probably the BEST security around!   

As for familiy amenities, however, I really don't know.

Janric,

Don't know about the "DQ"..what is it?  Do you know the sponsor well and does he/she have kids? If not, they may not "Get it", if you know what I mean. Our 13 y/o daughter is a tomboy who plays sports so I know we'll need to live on a compound b/c it's my understanding only the compounds would offer her social /sport activities. True, she could get SOME fun things at school but the compounds are where we'd live. The idea of having kids to play with in the neighborhood like she does now is very appealing-- especially b/c I won't be able to drive her anywhere, it seems mandatory. You're in the same boat. Security at all the compounds sounds very strict so it's more of an ambiance and cost thing PLUS of course the space available.

If given the choice, we'd trade for a smaller place on a larger compound with more to do, rather than a nicer "villa" on a compound with few kids. If she weren't with us, it may be different but like you, it's about making a place where the children can thrive and be happy which frees us up to assess a place objectively. If the kid(s) are miserable, life stinks...(Oh,  and if I am miserable, life stinks...and not driving or working could be a big drag so we'll have to be creative. I'm not a big shopper but I'm willing to learn SOME...and we'll start some group things too...)

I have to say, If the housing situation were worked out, I'd feel a ton better about this whole thing. Unlike other moves we've made where housing was up in the air,  NOT getting good housing in KSA is a deal breaker. There's the obvious security issue. Enough said. But more than that, b/c of the numerous restrictions on activities, esp for women, it's an entire life style downshift if you are stranded and isolated on the economy. IT's one thing to live in an apartment while waiting for housing in Europe where you can wander around seeing some old arhcitrture, go to a concert, see a Shakespeare Festival and enter a castle... it's another thing to be holed up in an area where you don't speak the language, are not made to feel welcome, have no way of getting around b/c it's illegal for you to drive so you have to hire a taxi who SOME say could be dangerous OR just getting your child to school let alone buying her school clothes--OTHER than the abayas, OR going to work --oh wait, I won't be working, or shopping, so yeah, housing has to be handled asap. Then their school...I assume Janric, you are in the same boat? Have you moved a lot before? We were in the Army so moving for US isn't that big but for our youngest child, (the 13 y/o girl) it's hard b/c she's now alone with us as the youngest child and doesn't recall all the moves we made with her older siblings.

Some compounds have schools on them (that'd be SO great) but I don't know which ones or where they are. Tell me about the DQ please.  I do know that transportation to school is arranged and security is provided from each compound. (Did you see the film "The Kingdom"? That will tell you some history and why security is so needed there). Hard to make things work out from here and I may go out on a "look see" but think having my hubby with me would make it work much better. For better or worse, KSA is a place that a man seems to be more effective in getting what he wants at this point. OF course, I will be there if there's any choosing to do, b/c -let's just say he wouldn't notice the kid things I would...you know? Are you able to visit beforehand? Not easy with a 4 y/o and a 12 y/o I know. (My daughter will say  your sons have it "so much easier" than her, b/c they have their siblings there).  She'll also grill me on what games he likes to play including videos of course. "Call of duty?" Etc

Good luck

Don't know about the "DQ"..what is it?

All you had to do was google 'DQ Riyadh' to find out what 'DQ' stands for.

In fact, we have even discussed the DQ here, in this forum:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=26670

Do you know the sponsor well and does he/she have kids?

The sponsor is some large, impersonal company fronted by an equally impersonal HR dept.(at least that's the way  it's been for most of us--if not for you, consider yourself lucky!)  It would be like being recruited by IBM in the USA (ie. the sponsor) and thinking 'the sponsor' has kids to advise you!

To be adequately informed, sf, you need to do your own research.  Keep looking, searching, asking in many places (do NOT depend on one source).

THanks Allie,

Sorry I didn't know about "DQ" (=Diplomat Qtrs--who knew?) but not to worry Allie, I have not sat on my rear doing NO research or relying on this board for all my answers.. On the contrary, I have  read a ton of info on Saudi Arabia,  yet find most political discussions elsewhere,  (and they're very relevant to me, but presumably not to be talked about here.) That's where I learned about the dog ban, the ban on female lawyers speaking in court, not here.

Anyhow, I would like to think most people have a point of contact with the employer, in HR or somewhere. For us, We know the owners of the recruiting/head hunter's organization -they worked with my husband and knew him from a previous hospital. Hence my questions, b/c they are people , real individuals, who sometimes want their recruitees to be happy, or so it seems. I'm certainly banking on it!!

For us, We know the owners of the recruiting/head hunter's organization

You're lucky in that but ironically you still don't have basic information you want.

Many (most?) of us accepted jobs at large institutions (hospitals, universities, construction companies) not knowing anybody  and certainly nobody had any particular personal interest in our well-being.  It's pretty much, Here's what we offer.  Do you want it or not? 

If you're negotiating for yourself, like I was, it's a game of how much you can push before they think of you as a PITA and withdraw the offer.

You do as much investigating as you can and when it came right down to it, while I was informed, I went with my gut.  I've made a very good adjustment here because it's something I wanted to do, had many reasons for doing it, but primarily it's because of my attitude.  I'm not here to resent the culture or to change it.  I accept that it's not the United States lol

We know the owners of the recruiting/head hunter's organization -they worked with my husband and knew him from a previous hospital. Hence my questions, b/c they are people , real individuals, who sometimes want their recruitees to be happy, or so it seems. I'm certainly banking on it!!

When hubby was offered his job here and received the initial contract, we thought WOW!  they are giving us the world!  The problem is, we had no idea what we were getting into and what we needed to live here comfortably. 

And to be fair, his Company thought they were taking GREAT care of us too!  That is until we came for our first 'look see.'  We came over and stayed in Riyadh for 4 days, hired a local Saudi to take us around, visited several compounds and historical sites, grocery stores, cars, restaurants, etc., and got, what we thought was a good feel for the area, the culture, and the housing.  Then went home and began the 'real' negotiations… Housing, cars, drivers, furniture allocations, vacation travel, healthcare, household goods transfer, etc. 

Even then, we were negotiating in the blind for housing bc we had not been able to look at (the inside of) the housing in the compounds that we 'thought' we wanted to live in as nothing was available during our initial trip.    The wait at that time was 6-18 mo.   But we met and befriended every Compound Manager (for the places that we liked) and put our name on EVERY list.  It wasn't until the Kingdom Compound had called a few months later and offered up a villa that we came back for a 2nd time to see what they were offering - then turned it down for something we found that was a better deal for us. 

The point is, unless you live here, are intimately aware of the area or visit to get a good look and feel of what your getting into, you have no idea of what its going to be like.   

Allie:  You are right, a candidate really needs to negotiate the hell out of their contract and if they don't get what they want, then they should move on to the next opportunity.  This isn't the place to come unless you REALLY want to be here!

CAF wrote:

This isn't the place to come unless you REALLY want to be here!

correct!...everything here is inshallah and ma'alesh

CAF, Allie,

points taken. Did you discuss with the potential employer the look see visits? It'd be nice if they paid for it,  but I think it's worth going even if they aren't--but then again, as you guys say "negotiate the  heck out of it" and it wouldn't hurt to ask.  (to a point--hate being a  PITA--took me awhile to translate that one Allie   )

I also feel that the employer has good intentions & thinks they are doing good things as far as they know. We are NOT  getting the feeling that anyone is intentionally misleading us, it's as you say, they are operating under certain assumptions and we all hope they're like ours.

As miilitary veterans We've moved many times before. There are never guarantees. We moved once without a visit ahead of time b/c I was pregnant. That set us back too, b/c in that move we arrived with much less accurate info about housing and when you're 2 weeks away from a due date for a baby, you WANT housing...On the other hand,   in the states you can "un-do" some choices if you realize you made a mistake by choosing a certain neighborhood or house, etc.  Since our group is relatively small and all medical, they MAY have more flexibility OR maybe they'll have less negotiating power. Who knows? Nothing's risk free.

As far as we know, we're the only ones bringing a child. That is a bit of a drag b/c  Of course it's her I'm most worried about. They say "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy" but the reality for us when we've moved in the past is, if your kids are  happy & have some friends, everything else sort of fades in importance.

Here are 3 questions. 1) If they actually say IN THE CONTRACT that we have "compound housing" (any compound for these purposes--and yes, I know we'd prefer certain compounds, etc but oh well...)  can we assume that  means you get housing on a compound on arrival?

And CAF, 2) did you suggest getting on registration lists at every available school?  I hate to sound cheap, but their tuition deposits are not small. 
3) I know there's transportation to the schools we've looked at (e.g., American Int'l)  from all the compounds. Does this transportation also come with some security?   Are the schools themselves on mini compounds?

Thanks.

Spitfire

I would def request that the company pay for the 'look see.'  You certainly have nothing to loose by making the request.  KSA is considered a 'hardship' assignment, even in the civilian sector, so if they are REALLY concerned (and want the group to be happy) they will send you or a delegation to take a look. 

As for the compounds, there are the nice ones and the not so nice ones...  like housing in the states, 150K to the 600K+ housing, depending on where you live.  Or hotels, the Residence Inn to the Renaissance Hotels by Marriott.  If your contract says 'compound housing" they must have something in mind already.  With a group coming over, it sounds like someone has already set aside some housing… I would press them for the name/location and then do some investigating.   

For the schools, I recommended that you call and speak to the registrar and tell them that your estimated date of arrival is X and you have a 13 year old girl who will be registering.  Send them all the paperwork you can but  actual registration is probably not possible until you get in country.  Musicman may have a better answer since his wife works at one of the schools.  But you def want to make it known that she is coming and would like to attend that school.  I would have a primary school and back-up selected.   I believe some of the schools are on housing compounds but not all, but again, I'll defer to Musicman on this one...

thanks!!

DQ is the closest thing to a normal western suburb that you will find it Riyadh.  It's advantage over compounds is that it is larger, with excellent places to walk and ride, so you won't feel so shut in.

Alethe

Do you live on the DQ?  If you do, maybe if Spitfire comes to Riyadh for a 'look see' you can show her around?  I know when I came over in July and Sep, we went to the DQ, but unless you know where you are going, it is NOT an inviting place.  I was less than thrilled about the idea of living there.   Its just didn't give me a sense of welcome & security like when you go on to other housing compounds...  Like Kingdom, Al Hamra, Arizona, etc.  But we were new and didn't really have a clue what we were doing.