HIRING DISCRIMINATION - CHIME IN

Yes it is true. Same in Thailand when I worked there. Many of your indigenous coworkers will resent you for making quadruple ++ more than them.

Solo1 - C'est la vie right?

tintinmiami2013 wrote:

Solo1 - C'est la vie right?

Correct, that's life!

Yes! Language School hires White English teacher, boasts that they have native speakers to teach to local kids. So what if their accents are atrocious - no one knows the difference, anyway. Gullible and ignorant parents willingly pay more to keep up with the Joneses and so, the field is restricted and tightly controlled- almost like 'mafia' as a loose term. Tough, but don't teach English, try for other more specialized subjects like Maths or Economics instead at International Schools..

Sploke77 - Thanks for your candid feedback.  That's what I heard so far and it's not looking good for me.  I was born in VN and now I have a price to pay eh?  It's going to be a tough road to find an English teach job at one of these International or language schools.  Despite having a MBA and living in the States for over 24+ years, I still have an uphill battle. 

T.T

tintinmiami2013
It's going to be a tough road to find an English teach job at one of these International or language schools.  Despite having a MBA and living in the States for over 24+ years, I still have an uphill battle.

What about teaching English within Corporations ... perhaps there are those on the forum that have contacts that, in turn maybe able to help get your foot in the door.

I often wonder if the economy is good enough, to approach business (other than large corporations) that require their staff to speak English...and offer your services as a business.
Perhaps there is a niche in this area as in "Speaking English Naturally" basing your niche on the need for staff to have better accents. Often people have a good grasp of English but terrible accents, which lead to misunderstandings and other problems for businesses...It could be something that's needed out there!!

Just a couple of thoughts that I've had ... Maybe others can build on these?

That idea is wonderful but only just. This is because even though 'progressive' local businesses need Teachers for English for their local staff, those in HR who handles such assignments would quite obviously hand it to a white foreigner, rather than even a Viet Kieu,, to justify that they know their function! Imagine the jeers if it were otherwise!!
On that note, HR depts here seem to think they are a 'line' function instead of a 'staff' function and can blast any employee to give way to them. Tragic but true situation! Problem is poor understanding and lack of an Org Chart!!

Sploke77
That idea is wonderful but only just. This is because even though 'progressive' local businesses need Teachers for English for their local staff, those in HR who handles such assignments would quite obviously hand it to a white foreigner, rather than even a Viet Kieu,, to justify that they know their function! Imagine the jeers if it were otherwise!!
On that note, HR depts here seem to think they are a 'line' function instead of a 'staff' function and can blast any employee to give way to them. Tragic but true situation! Problem is poor understanding and lack of an Org Chart!!

Yeh...TIV

Would it work if tintinmiami2013 came in as a business person and hired the white foreigner ... if there was a need, and it worked, could be a nice little commission situation....

Yes! Discrimination lies in our blood
It's not easy to erase completely, even in this hi-tech era!
You too cannot escape from this
To check it yourself, just come and open a school here!
In forums we can write, "I am well educated and cultured, so these kinds of nasty thinking never come near me" or "I never hire a white guy in my school instead I hire a black guy with good educational background and experience".
Want to try?

tintinmiami2013 wrote:

Sploke77 - Thanks for your candid feedback.  That's what I heard so far and it's not looking good for me.  I was born in VN and now I have a price to pay eh?  It's going to be a tough road to find an English teach job at one of these International or language schools.  Despite having a MBA and living in the States for over 24+ years, I still have an uphill battle. 

T.T

That is exactly why the USA has the world's strongest economy.  Your credentials/experience should speak for itself, not the color of your skin.  Thank you Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.!

tintinmiami2013 wrote:

Sploke77 - Thanks for your candid feedback.  That's what I heard so far and it's not looking good for me.  I was born in VN and now I have a price to pay eh?  It's going to be a tough road to find an English teach job at one of these International or language schools.  Despite having a MBA and living in the States for over 24+ years, I still have an uphill battle. 

T.T

Hey I found a job for you.  I specifically confronted a guy about the elephant in the room and he says he's more into quality than appearances.  Let me find that thread.

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=292474

"sorry guys, my point here is that i focus more on how passionate and skillful teacher is, not what color of teacher's skin,ok"-lkhung

This guy sounds like a cool guy.  The job is in Hải Phòng City up North.

My advice for you is just to be honest.  If a school accepts you after looking at your ugly mug shot, then those are the types of employers you want to work for anyway.  Those that reject you because you don't have a white face - F-em.  You can tell a lot about your employer by the way they treat their employees.  It's no wonder a lot of language centers have high turnover rates.

tintinmiami2013 wrote:

Solo1 - C'est la vie right?

That would be the French.  An American would say "F-that, We're gonna fight this!" You grew up in the American education system; How many heros in the history books have you read about that fought against injustice? 

Alot of them just do it on their own.  And you can too!  Spend the next year or so save up as much money as you can, live on Top Ramen noodles if you have.  Then when you come to Việt Nam, you get as far away from the big cities as you can so the language schools can't touch you.  You find yourself a little place has a demand for English teachers, open shop, and you teach your heart out!  You teach those little kids and take them from grade 3 all the way to grade 12.

Then after they graduate and find a job, their boss will say "Holy crap, your English is AWESOME!  It's way better than all these graduates from HCMC <>!  Where did you learn your English?".  To which the kid will answer:

Mr. Tin Tin from Miami taught me.

What better paycheck do you want?  This is why teachers go into teaching.

You can do it Tin!

THD :,right on Man! That's the spirit, fight the injustice in your own way if teaching is really in your blood but not when its just a means to see what VN is like, only for 1-2,years. It may be a good link for Tintin, but I am sure he is aware that culturally, north is not south and whether his roots may fit in. Haiphong is way North and its a pleasant harbour city. But for HCMC, my take is that this prejudice will not go away for another 10 years!

Thanks THD for reminding me .... "Nothing is impossible"

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

...
Mr. Tin Tin from Miami taught me.

What better paycheck do you want?  This is why teachers go into teaching.

You can do it Tin!

Here's a true inspiring story that just made the papers.  You can substitute "Mr. Tin Tin from Miami" with the example below....

http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/page … offee.aspx

The couple tells me a fascinating story about a young woman named Lien. A few years after they opened the cafe their daughter went to a manicure shop in the US and was served by a young Vietnamese woman who spoke excellent English. She asked her where she had learnt English, and the young woman, Lien, replied, “Master's Cup Coffee House in HCMC.”

Lien was in university and had a part-time job at the manicure shop.

Looking out for you buddy.

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=307749#1524599

Some of the best English teachers I've encountered in Vietnam have been Asians born and educated in the US....but unfortunately they are painted with the same brush as "Việt kiều"....and it's no secret that Vietnamese have a bitter disdain towards Việt kiều....

I work at the US Embassy, and the Vietnamese Nationals who are also employed there have some very cruel jokes when Việt kiều come in to complain or report trivial matters...Along the lines of... " better call momma in California to come hold your hand"...I'm sure this same thinking can be found at schools hiring prospective teachers...

johnnywastaken wrote:

Some of the best English teachers I've encountered in Vietnam have been Asians born and educated in the US....but unfortunately they are painted with the same brush as "Việt kiều"....and it's no secret that Vietnamese have a bitter disdain towards Việt kiều....

I work at the US Embassy, and the Vietnamese Nationals who are also employed there have some very cruel jokes when Việt kiều come in to complain or report trivial matters...Along the lines of... " better call momma in California to come hold your hand"...I'm sure this same thinking can be found at schools hiring prospective teachers...

You mean you work at the US Consulate.  The US Embassy is in Hà Nội while the US Consulate is in Hồ Chí Minh City.  I know people use them interchangeably but one is the "mothership" while the other is...an away shuttle..like a branch office. 

Anyhow, I bet it would be like how the Yankees (Northerners) treated the Rebels (Southerners) after the Civil War (US History).  Or how the Shias treat the Sunnis in Iraq. 

I know discrimination exists but I don't close my eyes to social injustice.  It is a fight Americans have engaged in for centuries. 

If I worked at the US Consulate, I'd tell the Vietnamese Nationals...I don't care what nationality you are, you're on US soil and American laws apply here!  We have EOE/AA laws and the workplace has no tolerance for that kind of talk.  So quit your bad-mouthing American citizens or I'll put a boot in your ass... courtesy of the Red White and Blue(reference to a Toby Keith song).



Asian-Americans, African-Americans, Indian-Americans, British-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Russian-Americans... are Americans first!

In case any Americans here want to feel patriotic, here's the Toby Keith song.  Was a unifying voice after 9/11. Click the orange button to hear it.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tobykeit … rican.html

Tran Hung Dao.... is there anything you don't know...?

johnnywastaken wrote:

Tran Hung Dao.... is there anything you don't know...?

You can thank my elementary, high school, and college teachers for unleashing this tornado onto the world. 

johnnywastaken wrote:

Tran Hung Dao.... is there anything you don't know...?

He has a Doctorate in "Google Search"!!

Good catch, THD. I can't imagine anyone working at a consulate who would confuse it with an embassy.

But, on topic, Vietnam is merely exhibiting the same preferences as other East Asian countries. And it's not just Asian-Americans. All American racial minorities have a low chance of getting hired to teach English in Korea. The hagwons (schools) cite the preferences of their students' parents as the reason for preferring "White". And as English instruction is a business, that's understandable. They have to compete in the local market to succeed.

As for the Vietnamese nationals working in either the Embassy or Consulate, I'll bet they had nothing but nice things to say about Viet Kieu when FSO John Nguyen was in town.

Even High Commissions....and consulates are referred to Embassy's...in the foreign service.... Or are we going to debate this with Know it all's and geezers...?

johnnywastaken wrote:

Even High Commissions....and consulates are referred to Embassy's...in the foreign service.... Or are we going to debate this with Know it all's and geezers...?

Just when you say you work AT the US Embassy, my immediate thought was you work in Hà Nội since I've never met you before or read any of your posts.  If you said you work AT the US Consulate, then I'd know you work and are in HCMC.  Either case, you work FOR the US Embassy.

Accredited people who work in Consulates are "with the Embassy", but they don't work "at the Embassy". So, what do you do at the Consulate?

For semantics.... I fly to Hanoi every Wednesday... and fly back in the early evening.... and yes.... your tax dollars are paying for it.... would you like to know what I have for lunch in Hanoi lirelou....?

lirelou wrote:

...
As for the Vietnamese nationals working in either the Embassy or Consulate, I'll bet they had nothing but nice things to say about Viet Kieu when FSO John Nguyen was in town.

I'm not fond of dividing Americans up by their racial terms even though the US Census Bureau likes to count races and ethnicity.  If a person who lives in the United States of America is a Citizen, natural born or naturalized, then they are Americans. 

It's why we're the United States of America.  United We Stand, Divided we fall.  Somehow calling American Citizens of Vietnamese descent, "Việt kiều" somehow ostracizes them.  For Vietnamese nationals to put this label on an American Citizen somehow makes them less worthy. 

A lot of Americans even think our President is "Black" even though his mother is White.  To what percentage of blood do we want to draw the line when we speak of an American or an African-American?  We can spin this thread out of control but I'll keep it focused on American Citizens of Vietnamese descent, just as the original poster is writing. 

To me,  tintinmiami2013 is an American - period!  He is a native speaker with an MBA degree.  Any school should hire him based on his credentials and not weigh him less than a "white American", pay him less, or treat him any less. 

I know reality doesn't agree with idealism, but this was America before the 1960s Civil Rights movement.  Do you not agree, we've advanced as a country because of that movement?  Thanks to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and many other Americans, the idealism became a reality and our current President is a testimony to that effect.

THD, the problem is that tintin is not seeking to be hired in the United States. He's seeking employment overseas and will be hired based upon their judgment as to his qualifications. A more knowledgeable hiring authority might prefer a Viet Kieu, who is likely to have had to live hearing both languages and may be more familiar with the needs and idiosyncrasies of Vietnamese English learners. But often, people involved in the hiring process are also looking for image. American equals White in many overseas minds. I've got fifty years to trying to teach foreigners that US = White is not true. They disagree. So far, they're winning.

The Dalat School of Foreign Languages had a Viet Kieu teacher from Vancouver a few years back, and she had come in explicitly to reside and teach in Dalat. So Viet Kieu do get hired. But an exception does not prove a rule.

Johnny, sounds like a job like my wife had in the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City. I'm not into Hanoi food, but if you can recommend any particularly good Saigon street food areas, I'm all ears. They probably have a thread on it elsewhere.

I used to hate being called a Viet Kieu everywhere I go. It had some negative aspects where ever you go people assume you're loaded with money and you're visiting Vietnam to either

a) get laid
b) get married

Every conversation started with how much do I make and wanting to hook me up with their daughters and nieces.

Now it doesn't bother me so much. When they call me a Viet Kieu it just means a Vietnamese living outside Vietnam to me.

Instead of being jealous of a Viet Kieu, go become one yourself, I say

Johnnywastaken, I found the cure for aids, man.

Wild_1 wrote:

Johnnywastaken, I found the cure for aids, man.

Howie.... I've always heard that the best nuts come from California...

Let me guess...  The State Department told you that?  What did they tell you about your own state, a lot of loose cannons???