New Decree for foreign workers -Decree 102/2013/ND-CP

jimbream wrote:

Anyone have any views on this or may be affected?
1st of November 2013 is the date it comes into effect.

http://thuvienphapluat.vn/archive/Nghi- … 06196.aspx

Use Google to translate is necessary.

I'm not too alarmed.  This law came as a knee jerk reaction to all the illegal Chinese laborers working on construction projects because the Chinese contracting companies didn't hire local workers but instead imported many Chinese workers. 

Also there have been a few Chinese doctors practicing without a license in HCMC that have made the news recently.

So it might be little bit political backlash against China claiming the Hoàng Sa and Trường Sa Islands as part of China.

If Expats teach, then their school should have gotten them a worker's permit. 

If Expats work for foreign corporations, then their company should have gotten them a worker's permit.

Here are two newsarticles in English regarding this development:

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/societ … tions.html

http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/page … oyers.aspx

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

If Expats teach, then their school should have gotten them a worker's permit. 

If Expats work for foreign corporations, then their company should have gotten them a worker's permit.

In other words, if you're an ex-pat working and living in Vietnam full-time and you don't have a work permit, you're not legal as far as the VN government is concerned, and should beware of their wrath.

saigonmonkey wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

If Expats teach, then their school should have gotten them a worker's permit. 

If Expats work for foreign corporations, then their company should have gotten them a worker's permit.

In other words, if you're an ex-pat working and living in Vietnam full-time and you don't have a work permit, you're not legal as far as the VN government is concerned, and should beware of their wrath.

Yah, If you're working without a work permit, it means your employer is one shady character who didn't give a crap about you to get you a work permit.  So RUN!

I'm a bit concerned about this. My boyfriend has been offered a job in Hanoi (work permit issue settled for him), if we decide to take the opportunity, we'd be moving to Hanoi early 2014. I'd try to find a job in Hanoi by then, but guess I will have no choice but to enter the country on a tourist visa and go job-hunting in persona.

Apparently under the old regulation, a master's degree (which I have) was enough to qualify as an "expert" deserving of a work permit, while now it looks like management experience will be required (which I don't have, but I do have about 4 years of working experience in my profession).
Also, allowing the authorities two months to try to fill any vacancy with a local means – well, a delay of two months. Plus it's not clear to me that a smaller company would even be willing to go through the additional paperwork in the first place

Does anyone have any additional insights on what constitutes an "expert" or the new procedure / regulation in general? Anything in addition to what I can get from the news or consultancy reports... How are businesses reacting to the new regulation? Apparently, there is still lots of uncertainty about it.

Thanks for any advice

FOr me, the most interesting part of this thread is that while Chinese (Mainland) companies are sneaking in Chinese workers, Vietnamese Guest Workers are piling on to airlines headed for Korea and Taiwan. The Korean guest workers mostly work in factories, so I presume they have a higher educational level than Chinese construction workers. Not sure how many Vietnamese work in factories on Taiwan, but their fishing fleet is filled with Vietnamese men. And girls who did work in factories can now be found running small businesses, i.e. soup stands, sandwich shops, and beauty and nail parlors.

Has Vietnam arrived at the point where they are exporting workers to receive higher wages abroad than they would make at home, bringing in Chinese to backfill the lower paying jobs?

It's an interesting world we live in.

Have no worry.  Vietnamese policies are unilaterally formulated, hastily enacted and loosely executed.  There will be loopholes that you can drive trucks through.  However, before going ahead, it is best that you secure the opinion of a knowledgeable Vietnamese (Not a Vietnamese attorney!!!).

NicoleMonika wrote:

I'm a bit concerned about this. My boyfriend has been offered a job in Hanoi (work permit issue settled for him), if we decide to take the opportunity, we'd be moving to Hanoi early 2014. I'd try to find a job in Hanoi by then, but guess I will have no choice but to enter the country on a tourist visa and go job-hunting in persona.

Apparently under the old regulation, a master's degree (which I have) was enough to qualify as an "expert" deserving of a work permit, while now it looks like management experience will be required (which I don't have, but I do have about 4 years of working experience in my profession).
Also, allowing the authorities two months to try to fill any vacancy with a local means – well, a delay of two months. Plus it's not clear to me that a smaller company would even be willing to go through the additional paperwork in the first place

Does anyone have any additional insights on what constitutes an "expert" or the new procedure / regulation in general? Anything in addition to what I can get from the news or consultancy reports... How are businesses reacting to the new regulation? Apparently, there is still lots of uncertainty about it.

Thanks for any advice

My understanding is this decree is not much different from the previous decree in general. In order to prove the qualification, a master degree should be enough. However, though it was not provided in the old decree, in practice, DoLISA will require an explanation from the employer on why they cannot hire a local person for such position in the application of work permit.

The definition on the "expert" of the new decree is someone "having recoginised foreign degree, acknowledged as an expert under foreign training system, having a barchelor degree or equivalent degree AND 5 years experience in according with the professional trained". Thing is you do not need to be an expert to get work permit.

The 2 months delay is only applied in case of foreign contractor who need to hore at least 500 employees for the work (normally construction work). So, if you are looking for a "management job" in a small company, this would not be affect to your work permit.

In your case, will you get married with your boyfriend? Will you move to stay permanent with your boyfriend? If yes, then normally, with your boyfriend's work permit, he can ask for permanent residence card ("TRC"), then he can ask for another TRC for you. Then you do not need travel visa and you can easily find a job - event temporary without work permit.

Good luck!

aibiet150204 wrote:

NicoleMonika wrote:

I'm a bit concerned about this. My boyfriend has been offered a job in Hanoi (work permit issue settled for him), if we decide to take the opportunity, we'd be moving to Hanoi early 2014. I'd try to find a job in Hanoi by then, but guess I will have no choice but to enter the country on a tourist visa and go job-hunting in persona.

Apparently under the old regulation, a master's degree (which I have) was enough to qualify as an "expert" deserving of a work permit, while now it looks like management experience will be required (which I don't have, but I do have about 4 years of working experience in my profession).
Also, allowing the authorities two months to try to fill any vacancy with a local means – well, a delay of two months. Plus it's not clear to me that a smaller company would even be willing to go through the additional paperwork in the first place

Does anyone have any additional insights on what constitutes an "expert" or the new procedure / regulation in general? Anything in addition to what I can get from the news or consultancy reports... How are businesses reacting to the new regulation? Apparently, there is still lots of uncertainty about it.

Thanks for any advice

My understanding is this decree is not much different from the previous decree in general. In order to prove the qualification, a master degree should be enough. However, though it was not provided in the old decree, in practice, DoLISA will require an explanation from the employer on why they cannot hire a local person for such position in the application of work permit.

The definition on the "expert" of the new decree is someone "having recoginised foreign degree, acknowledged as an expert under foreign training system, having a barchelor degree or equivalent degree AND 5 years experience in according with the professional trained". Thing is you do not need to be an expert to get work permit.

The 2 months delay is only applied in case of foreign contractor who need to hore at least 500 employees for the work (normally construction work). So, if you are looking for a "management job" in a small company, this would not be affect to your work permit.

In your case, will you get married with your boyfriend? Will you move to stay permanent with your boyfriend? If yes, then normally, with your boyfriend's work permit, he can ask for permanent residence card ("TRC"), then he can ask for another TRC for you. Then you do not need travel visa and you can easily find a job - event temporary without work permit.

Good luck!

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