VIDEOS OF INSIDE THE COMPOUNDS IN KSA

Why would you want videos of the inside of compounds?

Do you think in this day and age, in this climate, that this is a good request?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgnBmDvn … re=channel

You tube video about compound life

Thank You Saudi UK, I have found this 1 video on you tube but cannot find any others but thanks for your efforts in trying to help me :-)

MisterStretch,
Considering that I will be changing my whole lifesytle, particularly as a female by moving to such a place as KSA, I thought it might be a good idea to do as much research as possibe. I can not see how this seems so rediculous to you atall. I see that you have moved around quite a bit in your time, however, I have not so much, therefore I would appreciate help from those people who are kind enough to give it.

Hi UglyBetty,
I just thought I would tell u, u r not ridiculous at all.  I myself have new job in Dammam, and I am moving from Toronto, Canada, all I can learn and see is valuable.  Hope, we both can get all the information we seek.  Good Luck to you in your endeavours.

Stretch was referring to security, of course.

But Ugly Betty, I know how you feel.  My employer ignored my request for pics of where I would be living (guess they didn't think it was important!!!) so I spent a lot of time googling images lol

Here's an idea:  go to the column om the left and click 'Guide.'  Under housing, I've put a list of compounds.  Take the different names and do a google image search and you'll see different people's pics of where they live.

Good luck to both you and Cynthia

Hey Guys,
Of course I understand that security is an issue but I simply wanted to see a few pics of the streets inside, what a home there would look like and the facilites. I have found the website for The Kingdom which looks very nice but I hear there are long waiting lists. Are there any you could recommend for the maximun number of facilites?

Thanks for your comments Cynthia, best of luck to you in your move :-)

Hi Ugly Betty,

Try this link http://riyadhciti.com/ I've found this site pretty useful and intersting.

heres a link with many youtube clips that may help:-

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q … pound&aq=f

Uglybetty,

I saw a video on youtube of life on a compound in Saudi. I don't know how to link it here. Sorry!  Do you get youtube in Saudi? Since we are moving to a compound this summer, (we think!) I've seen it about 5 times. It shows a the compound itself but nothing indoors so there's not a lot to say about how nice they are inside.  I have heard they are pretty well equipped though.  And I've heard that there is a trade off between some compounds which is that you can have more people on one compound but get smaller housing for yourself, or have a nicer large house but with far fewer people around.

I was wondering what rules apply to guests. Can my husband and I invite his co-workers to our house or not? Some are female and some are male. Do any of these rules apply to compounds and is it rude to even ask?

IF so, please let me know before I stick my foot in my mouth. IF you cannot access youtube, let me know and I'll do my best to describe. But suffice to say I liked what I saw, although I did not look for children riding bikes or running around. I might go review it again now.
Thanks

Wow, musicman just posted the link! That was the one I was talking about...never mind

thanks Musicman!

ANd Mr Stretch, what are suggesting? I don't get it. I have a daughter, I am an American woman married to an American man, moving to Riyadh (if all goes well with the job negotiations!).

I am quitting  a well paying attorney job to join my  husband in a country that does not necessarily view women, let alone female lawyers, the same way our culture does. It'll take a lot of adjusting. But as a MOTHER, the more I can show my child what her world will look like, the better she will adjust. We have moved over a dozen times, but never to such a different place.

Are you concerned that we are asking for security facts to be revealed? Frankly I am worried about security and so the more I can see  protective measures in place, the better.

I guess I don't know why you thought this was an odd request. I have looked at the youtube videos MANY times to acquaint myself to the dramatic changes about to take place in my life, my husband's life and most important to me, my daughter's. 
What was your objection? I'm curious.

I have looked at the youtube videos MANY times to acquaint myself to the dramatic changes

If you think you're aquainting yourself with the 'dramatic changes' by watching a youtube video of a compound, you're going to be in for a shock when you get here.

Oh, and suffice it to say, all compounds aren't the same.  What holds true for one doesn't necessarily hold true for another so you can't talk in generalities.

As for Stretch's concern for security, do you think that it's only us nice expat people reading this forum?  I'm quite convinced sites like this are monitored to see what information can be gleaned.  If you think I sound paranoid, welcome to the Kingdom!

Alliecat,


um...yikes...what else can I say?

LOL

Okay, it's not that bad but you really can never know what might happen.  For me, probably the worst thing about Saudi is the ambiguity. Information always seems to be 'through the grapevine' and you never know what's fact and what's urban myth!

Of course, it's occurred to me that there is method in this madness since it makes us tend to police ourselves.

But seriously, you need to think long and hard about bringing a 12 year old American girl into this culture.  I'm all for experiencing the world, but I really do think that Saudi does a number on young people (I've worked with local teens here so I know of whence I speak!).

hey cat...she is coming and i dont want u to discourage her! she might be here for 3 years (mostly americans stay here for that long) so 3 years will not make much of a difference to the kid! i know thats a crucial age but she can manage it...let them also have a look at the complete new culture

Hey Ali,
Please tell us what the culture is?  I have heard horror stories of beheadings in the town square every month in Riyadh.  And, I have heard the Muttawa are brutal.  Please enlighten me as I will arrive there in less than 2 months. 
Thanks
Cynthia

spitfire8 wrote:

ANd Mr Stretch, what are suggesting? I don't get it.

Are you concerned that we are asking for security facts to be revealed? Frankly I am worried about security and so the more I can see  protective measures in place, the better.

I guess I don't know why you thought this was an odd request. I have looked at the youtube videos MANY times to acquaint myself to the dramatic changes about to take place in my life, my husband's life and most important to me, my daughter's. 
What was your objection? I'm curious.

I am not and was not trying to be an alarmist or scare you.  One thing we, as Western expats, are very conscious of (or at least should be) is the security issues surrounding our compounds.

We have a visual reminder every day of armed guards on the approaches to our living areas.  I'm not talking about a rent-a-cop that you would find in the mall.  These are military men, manning very large weapons outside (and inside some) compounds that house foreigners. 

In fact, just last week the guards outside the compounds in my area were changed, sandbagged redoubts were built, the weapons were updated, cleaned and repositioned.  I don't think all of this extra effort is because the threat is lessening.

Why are they there?  Because there is a real threat to Westerners here.  Some expats here don't believe this is a real threat.  Those of us that work for military contractors know differently. 

Why would a video compromise such security?  It may very well not, but it also could by allowing those that wish us harm to have information regarding in-compound security and layouts they might not have other access to.

Just two weeks ago I was in Bahrain and read in the newspaper there that the government here had recently arrested more than 150 terrorists.  Something the government here isn't always totally open about.

I have lived in three compounds in KSA and in each the management and security forces have been very adamant about showing any images of where security is placed within the compound.

As I said, I don't want to be an alarmist or scare you.  Many people live here for years and years with no troubles.  I've lived in two compounds that were previously attacked so maybe I am more conscious than others here...but I am serious about my safety and the safety of my neighbors; many of whom have children of their own.

Most of the major compounds have websites that show stills (they might even show videos, for all I know)and you can see what compound life can look like.  If you were coming to my area, I would even be happy share still photos of my compound, without showing where and what security measures are in place.

I hope you understand why I said what I said now.  Good luck with your adventure, I hope all works out for you and your family.

so 3 years will not make much of a difference to the kid

Ali, sweetie... you are waaaaaaaaaay out of your element here, having never been a 12 year old American girl.  These are her formative years.

Now I'm not trying to scare anybody off--as an adult, I came here and have actually recontracted for another year!   But I don't want anybody coming here with naive ideas, especially somebody with a child.  They have to make an informed decision and your suggestion that I 'don't discourage' her, that I  withhold information, is totally wrong and I'll fight you every step of the way on it!  I tend to be an optimist but a pollyanna I'm not.

That said, a lot does depends on the girl (how adaptable she is, maturity level, etc.), where they will live and what school she will attend.  It's a confusing place for adults and doubly so for teens (I repeat, I've worked with them here).

Now, it could work out to be the experience of a lifetime for her; on the other hand, she could spend every waking minute on Facebook, crying how much she hates it here and wants to go home.  I just want the mom to consider all angles.

And last but not least, Stretch's post before mine should be a wake-up call to those who consider a stint in Saudia to be a walk in the park. I'm not afraid here, but I'm always aware I could be in danger.

Alliecat,

I completely agree with your last post. While it's one thing for parents comming to the Kingdom with toddlers and young children it's completely another thing when your trying to bring up a teenager.

There is almost nothing for them to do and as we know when teenagers get bored, as they so often claim they are, then that's when trouble starts.

Uglybetty and all those others out there considering a move to Saudi; If you are unsure about what life is like on the compounds or in the Kingdom generally then I would seriously advise a fact-finding mission or what is known as a "look-see".

When you are in discussion with a future employer request that they sponsor you to come for a visit. You will probably be surprised how readily they will agree (Many will often pay all the costs) after all it's in their interests as well as yours to make sure that your time here works and that you don't decide to pack your bags 1 month after arriving.

If you do decide on the look-see, book as many appointments as you can with compounds, schools, embassy etc.

When you visit the compounds PUT YOUR NAME ON THEIR WAITING LIST (ALL OF THEM). Most of the compounds have a lengthy waiting list, however employment negotiations can also drag on so by the time everything is arranged you may have a place available.

Of course a "look-see" may not be possible for all but even if you pay for it yourself I seriously recommend it.

Thank you ALL!! I'll be travelling for a few days but do want to check back in shortly. I have a lot to think about.

The school issue surprises me only b/c the hospital implied it was a done deal as in, "we'll pay for her to attend X international school" although they did not name it OR the compound we'd live on. I assumed the school was ON the compound! Now I don't know. A woman contractor I know is going ahead for her look see so I'll wait to hear your report back. Frankly looking ahead makes sense with all trips BUT this one is a little disconcerting. Almost rather not do it unless my husband is there too. 

We went to a compound site Allie suggested I believe and it implies we can pay for an upgrade, by listing prices, or does the medical company  assign you your place on the compound?  They said "up to 4 BR on the contract but we are only bringing one child. An office in the house and or a guest room would be VERY nice but honestly I have no idea how much of what has been inked on paper will come through in real life.

Yes time off, and all that. Our family was military so our older children in college are excited FOR HER and telling her to GO and LEARN and all that, but they are not coming.

If it's only one year, I feel strongly she can do it as she is adaptable. And she's not an older looking girl. She looks 10 if you know what I mean. But Longer than a year,  we'd have to see. The one advantage for kids on compounds or bases, that I've seen from the past many moves is that they bond well and kids are more friendly than in "normal" state side schools where kids have known each other for decades.

Our daughter makes friends fast enough but would need to be more out going. She plays sports and loves to read and do video games as well. Are those things possible on girls only teams? Do girls play sports?
Oh and as for compound living, do people from the mutaween wait outside the gates to pounce on those not obeying their view of Islamic law? Do they enter? And if my sisters visit, can we go out UNaccampanied, assuming we have transportation? Otherwise my husband has to take off each day to join us. Is this correct? Can western women do a little more than the others or is that resented?
Again, thank you for all this information. I do appreciate it. There are questions I have that should be answered before we move, but I am not sure where to ask those...time will tell perhaps.  Thanks!
Spitfire

Oh and as for compound living, do people from the mutaween wait outside the gates to pounce on those not obeying their view of Islamic law? Do they enter? And if my sisters visit, can we go out UNaccampanied, assuming we have transportation

Hehehe,no they r not allowed to peek a boo at all,nor they wait outside,they got enough prey outside in the malls which focuses middle class Expats and yeah your sis can join u and u guys can travel alone my taxi or a driver,but u may not travel alone with male friends.

It wont be complicated and rest, i'd reply u in the mail

I have heard horror stories of beheadings in the town square every month in Riyadh.  And, I have heard the Muttawa are brutal.  Please enlighten me as I will arrive there in less than 2 months.

First off, let me say that I'm no expert--certainly others on this forum know more about Saudia and its culture than I do.  However, as single American working woman  perhaps I can add a different perspective.

That said, yes there are public beheadings on Friday afternoons but there is no need for this to affect you. Just be sure to avoid 'Chop-Chop Sq.' so you don't end up seeing something you don't want to see. 

I've had some open discussion with Saudi colleagues--intelligent, educated people--and they're totally in favor of this kind of punishment because they feel that it keeps the crime rate low (and you know what? it probably does).  If you think about it objectively, the US also has capital punishment just we don't do it publicly (and the 'beheading' thing freaks out Westerners but it's actually swift and painless--not that I am advocating for beheadings).  So both the US and Saudi Arabia believe in capital punishment, but we object to how the Saudis implement it.  Interestingly, many countries in the world that long ago abolished the death sentence tend to lump the US and Saudi together in this respect--along with Iran, China, etc.!! Nice company, eh?


As for the mutawa, they only bothered me once and that was during Ramadan.  The less civilized ones will get in your face screaming 'cover head, cover head' lol  The better ones will use a lower voice and the word 'please.'  It's easy to spot them (full beard, a thobe a bit shorter than most, and no egal)so just head in the other direction when you see see one coming.  I've heard horror stories, too--but they're 'handed down' and nobody I know personally has ever had an experience that would qualify as a horror story (and some of the women I know have been here 8 or 10 years).

How you handle the mutawa is entirely up to you.  Some non-Muslim expats simply refuse to cover their heads, turn their backs and walk away.  This could be asking for trouble but I understand that sometimes enough is enough and an expat woman is willing to do battle to keep one of her few 'rights' (the right to not cover her head)  Most women, however, carry a scarf, put it on their head, walk away and immediately remove it. 

And let me add one thing:  while we don't consider mutawa to be our friends, as expats, because our only interaction with them is when they harrass us--they do serve a purpose as a kind of 'community watch' on the streets and so many Saudis value their presence.

I've tried to answer your questions with a balanced view.  Don't be afraid about coming here

All the best!

and the 'beheading' thing freaks out Westerners but it's actually swift and painless--not that I am advocating for beheadings

hehehehe,How do u know Allie? .AnywayYour positivity is on amazing level

hehehehe,How do u know Allie? .AnywayYour positivity is on amazing level

lol  yeah you've got a point, nonzie!  I can only know what I've read--how they keep the sword razor sharp, how the executioner is trained to know exactly where to aim, etc.--certainly nobody who was beheaded has come back to exclaim, 'Hey, that was swift and painless!"

You know, decapitation has a long history in the west, starting in the 1300's (if not earlier).  Check out the history of the guillotine: 

http://www.guillotine.dk/Pages/History.html

Again, I'm not advocating this.  Freaks me out, too.  But it's always good to increase your knowledge base

Allie, Sandman, Mr Stretch, Salab (sp?) et al,

Thanks again for the info and the well thought out comments. Very balanced. As for the beheadings and meting out punishment publicly, I might feel compelled to "witness" that once.  I'm a lawyer, so their legal system is of great interest to me. But it's drastically different than ours in determining guilt, appealing, or the flexibility in sentencing &  their "penal code" is their Holy Book. That's pretty different. And sometimes a lower crime rate isn't the only thing that matters. (You could achieve that same result by executing a lot of innocents too, after all).  I'll leave it at that, and I make no claim to be an expert on their ways.

Allie, you say you've personally seen the Kingdom "do a number" on teenagers there. What did you mean? Were they expats' kids?  IF there's nothing to do, I'd imagine sports or family time is what you have left (...or BOYS,  but it's KSA - and the ONE social advantage I expected was that boys would not be an issue yet, which would be an improvement over California and middle school girls!).

Or is getting into trouble with a new "loser" friend what you mean? I can see that more than a year there, OR if she can't find friends at school or in the neighborhood would be too much.  The security issues matter too but I'll address those elsewhere.

As for the comment by Shalab (sp?) that "3 years is nothing at this age", I disagree (and who said 3 years? The contract is for one year, renewable). I'd say it's probably the worst time to move at this age. I appreciate your concern and feeling that this is a done deal so we should make the best of it and if it were, I would. BUT IT'S NOT A DONE DEAL and I won't go if it's too much for her.
She's our youngest and she & her older siblings all moved b/c my husband & I were both in the military. High school moving was terrible but by then, at least our kids had some "meeting new people" skills in their social arsenal. They made friends and by the end of their 3 years they were popular. In middle school, like our youngest is now, you're just beginning to really care A LOT about what others think of you and your appearance and to be the new kid, (w/braces and looking younger than her contemporaries), is tough enough. My college daughter recently told me that in middle school when we moved, she ate lunch in the bathroom the first month to avoid being seen eating alone at school. OMG I feel really badly about it for her. Our youngest is very witty and so she has a lot of friends here now, but wit takes time to show. 

I guess the one good thing about the abaya (when do girls start wearing them? Or do they always?) is that she'll feel less concerned about her appearance and fashion trends...She's relaxing more about this but I do hope it's adapting and not "surrendering".  I think there are opportunities everywhere. Saudi appeals to me some days in an odd exotic way & I feel history is being made there, and other days it just freaks me out.

I love, LOVE my dog, for instance. She had beautiful smart puppies this past winter, that we planned & hoped for, and they're great. I have worked hard each day since their births to care for them and have bonded with them and I DO LOVE those smart rascals. They're wonderful companions.  We wanted our dog's lineage to continue b/c she's that great of a dog. We are keeping a female so we'll have a mama dog and her puppy.... 

Then I read that dogs are banned now. WTH?    I mean I'm heartsick. True, she's a big watch dog & has hunted, and I can probably get her and the pup into the country after I climb a mountain of hassle and paperwork, and I might do that. But is it safe for the dogs? Do people harass you or the dog? (They're large standard poodles, smart, gentle and well trained --so there's no behavioral issue, fyi). And will a compound even allow them? See, these are all quality of life issues that are, each, individually & incrementally, things to be weighed. And so are our freedoms. So, we'll see.  Part of me feels like saying' "Forget it, see ya!" They want/need expats to come & do a whole lot but then they impose these odd restrictions that are painful & controlling as heck. What to wear, eat, drink, believe, and not having a beloved family pet come too...(sigh)
I DO want to go for a look see and will try to get that done in the next 6 weeks. Sometimes the feel of a place is all you need for a "yes" or a "no."

Thanks again for the advice and wise commentary. You and this site are an enormously valuable resource.

does anyone know where to get a book binder?

They want/need expats to come & do a whole lot but then they impose these odd restrictions that are painful & controlling as heck.

Yep, but they get us anyway due to the almight dollar.. if they didn't pay well, none of us would be here!

Allie,

I get it...really, I do. My mother in law passed away last month and taking care of her the past 2 years cost us a fortune in lost work time, but I am NOT complaining. I'm grateful for that time.  I'm just saying we need to do some financial repair work.  Hence the move.

So, anyone know someone who has a dog?? (A happy dog?)