Recently relocated to Sao Paulo

Hi pkelly940,

Welcome to expat-blog!

Your post was moved to the Sao Paulo forum for better visibility and interaction.

I suggest you to post your advert in the Banking, finance and accountancy jobs in São Paulo section, this might be helpful.

Regards,

David.

Hi pkelly940,



On behalf of the entire Expat-blog Team, welcome on board. I'm sure you'll make lots of new friends here.

  Cheers, 
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hi wjwoodward.

Thanks!  And also many thanks for your many useful and informative posts which I've found very helpful indeed.

pkelly,
Best advice I can give you, is if you don't speak it yet (at a very functional level), learn Portuguese as soon as you can.
Good luck,
Emilie

Hi Emilie.

Yes, I'm already learning!  I bought all 3 stages of the Rosetta Stone package before I came out here, so now steadily working my way through it... almost at the end of stage 1 !  Long way to go yet...

I'm now understanding a lot more than I did when I arrived 2 months ago. I think the key to speaking a language is to just go for it. You're always going to make mistakes, especially in the beginning, but if you worry too much about making those mistakes, you'll never progress beyond the basics.

Thanks for the advice.

Paul.

Hi all. Well, I finally get my work permit on Thursday (3rd October), and I have now really stepped up my job search. I would be interested to hear from anyone in Banking / Financial services who knows of any opportunities. Please feel free to check out my linkedin profile -

http://br.linkedin.com/pub/paul-kelly/13/8b4/905/

Whilst I'm here, if there's any other financial services professionals, whether nationals or expats, that fancy a beer or two at some point, feel free to message me.

Cheers

Paul

I use Rosetta Stone as well. However, check out PortuguesePod101 for free lessons. You can sign up for a free trial and get the equivalent of L1 RS for free, just cancel before the trial ends. I find practicing with natives including my spouse, RS, and PortuguesePod101 invaluable.

All the best.

Cheers Matt... bought RS 1,2 & 3 before I came out here, so will crack on with that... I went shopping with the little one earlier, and at checkout they only had tiny plastic bags... Apparently I asked the cashier (a guy) if he had a bigger handbag !  Oh well, will get there eventually ! ;-)

Hi pkelly940,

The more you expose yourself to the Portuguese language then the more quickly you'll start to understand it and pick it up. From my experience as a language teacher (both English and Portuguese) there are many things that you can do (free things) to help speed up your learning process. First you must remember that any language has three very important parts and you must master all of them.

The spoken language, the written language and finally language comprehension.

The spoken language-

The spoken language and listening must both be developed - use DVDs watch the same DVD several times, first with only Portuguese audio, second time with Portuguese audio and Portuguese subtitles, third and more times again with only Portuguese audio and subtitles. NEVER use English subtitles since this will destroy any hard work you've done to that point. The more you do this the more you're going to begin to understand the language as you hear it spoken.

Use Brazilian music (slower songs) play a CD over and over, try to write down the lyrics as you hear them. You'll only get a word here and there at first, but before too long you'll be able to get most of them.

Watch Brazilian television shows, preferably the soap operas because they've all got subtitles that you can turn on. Watch with the Portugese subtitles. This will build your listening comprehension and reading skills too.

The written language-

You should read Portuguese language newspapers, magazines, books and use an Eng/Port dictionary for anything you really don't quite understand. This will build your vocabulary.

You should also try writing in Portuguese and get some native speaker to read and correct what you've written. That way you're going to end up writing more like a Brazilian does.


On another note, shopping bags at supermarkets are just those little flimsy plastic bags - that's all you get anywhere in Brazil. If you're looking for a larger totebag then try one of the many R$1,99 Stores in most neighborhoods (Loja de Barata or Commercial as they are sometimes called) you'll usually find fiber totebags there. Hope color doesn't turn you off - they usually look like a kaleidoscope!!!

  Cheers, 
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

For anyone with an interest in banking, here's a recent interview I did with an industry journal... page 24

http://www.securitieslendingtimes.com/s … e_87.pdf#!

On a seperate note, what is going on with the weather ?? Haven't seen the sun for a few days !!

Best get used to the idea, we're just beginning to enter into Brazil's rainy season October - March. It's going to rain much more yet, getting progressively worse until February, March will improve and in April we're back to normal.

  Cheers, 
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hi Paul, Welcome to Sampa!
I've been here for 3.5 years now and teach English to financial institutions all over the city, Mainly investment banking and fund management mainly in Itaim Bibi. i have a lot of connections in the sector so feel free to PM me if you would like some contacts.

We're going to get the lovely rainy weather now, although it will improve over the next few weeks. Generally it'll be hot and sunny for the day and then have an hour or two worth of monsoon style downpour around 5pm. Always carry an umbrella and try to avoid travelling at that time as the roads may flood and trafiic will grind to a halt!

Arron

Thanks William / Arron... well, I don't mind a good storm as long as there's a bit of sun to go with it!

Arron - thanks for the offer mate. That's very kind of you - I'll drop you a PM.

Cheers, Paul.

Hi Paul,
Two years ago I was in the same situation than you (wife Brazilian, 17 years IT Finance experience between Paris and London) so I will be happy to share my experience.

I was very sure of my capacities/experience/personal network when moving to Brazil. I was in contact for a few months with 2 companies in the City with offices in SP and I had good contacts with ex-clients and competitors. I did not close a deal from London but I was very sure that I will find a job easily when moving in SP.  Well, I did not close a deal and I found out I was totally naive and unprepared. Really tough.

Brazil is not really an easy country for expats. There are still a few "expat contract" opportunities (a few top jobs in multinationals and petrol industry) but this is rare. These jobs are filled by local employees who acquired great experience in US or Europe and are back to Brazil for good. Remember also that only 0.8% of the population is foreign in Brazil and that Brazilian laws are very protectionist for goods but also for employment. So this not the same spirit than for example in the City where companies recruit people from all over the world.

I believe they are two paths:
- You throw all your energy to fully integrate in Brazil. Become fluent in Portuguese. Think, eat and do all like Brazilians. Pass some local diplomas or certification. Be ready to start at the low end of the pay/responsibility scale.
or
- You are back in London (soon before your CV gets rusty for not working for months). Improve your portuguese and search/network until you find a company which can offer you a position in Brazil.

FYI, actually I did not do either. There is a third path. I decided to create my own business. This is very tough also but rewarding.
There are actually a fourth path, very common for English language natives : give English language lessons, but seriously it will not give you enough to live decently in any city in Brazil.
Not all is negative. After this difficult integration period, Brazil is quite enjoyable and great place to live.
I wish you all the best.
Contact me by personal messages if you need some more info/tips.

Hi Bardamu,

Thanks for the message! I hear exactly what you are saying... I thought it would be much easier to find something here too, and whilst I'm a little disappointed so far, I do finally have a few things in the pipeline at the moment, and I'm hoping something comes from this.

I arrived in June, but didn't get my blue book anyway until about 2-3 weeks back (after much toing and froing with the Federal Police & Ministry of work), so not so much time wasted so far.

It seems hard to get the major banks interested, and as you probably already know, there is a serious downturn here in the industry just like anywhere else in the World, so despite the experience I have, it would probably be quite difficult even if my Portuguese was fluent...

But, I'm not really one for giving up. As I've put as much as I have into this move, which involved a lot of time and expense (we had to buy everything brand new here as it's difficult to rent a furnished apartment here at low cost), then there's no way I'm just going to give up, and go back to London (which has a dying banking industry anyway)

So, here's the positives... Whilst it seems that the major banks aren't interested, because of the downturn, I am attracting some attention from small investment firms that need foreign investment. A few years ago, investors were queuing up to invest in Brazil... and now people are holding back. With GDP growth dropping from around 9% to around 1% in the space of 3 years, there's a lot of caution out there.

I have a 2nd meeting tomorrow with an investment company who are building an industrial park (their JV partner pulled out at the last minute), and need to raise cash, are looking towards the UK / Europe for investment, and are interested in someone with greater understanding of the mentality and culture of European investors. I've also spoken with another small firm involved in CDO's who package up receivables from factoring companies, and sell them onto investors. They were also interested because of my European heritage, and helping them with attracting & giving presentations to potential European investors etc.

So whilst the downturn means less jobs in banking, it has created opportunities in other areas that require foreign investment, and someone with the experience to attract it in a time when foreign investors are erring on the side of caution.

All I need to do is turn this interest into R$s !  So I am definitely considering your 'third path' !

Whatever happens, I'm here to stay ! Watch this space! ;-)

Hi Bardamu and pkelly940,

Yes sir, it's no picnic in the park for expats to find work in Brazil. Most people tend to think of protectionist laws as being import restrictions... they seem to forget entirely about labor laws. Here the law requires an employer to clearly demonstrate that they've exhausted all avenues to fill a job vacancy with a qualified Brazilian before they can employ a foreigner to fill it. Some industries right now are saturated with skilled workers so offer little opportunity to expats, unfortunately one of those is IT. There is a tendency for Brazilians in the IT industry to work for companies in order to continually improve their CV and not out of any great loyalty. They view jobs, no matter how good, as just a stepping stone to something better. In fact they have a circuit they travel, start out with one, move to another, after that another still and so it goes. Finance is another sector that places real limits the opportunities for anyone who is not fluent in Portuguese. The public sector jobs are completely off limits to even the most experienced expats... one must be a citizen in order to even qualify for the competition exams.

While some industries do offer potential as far as employment goes, for expats coming to Brazil if you haven't the wherewithall to invest at least R$150K in a business and obtain permanency through investment, some form of personal income generation will be necessary. Expats who have some ability to produce and sell can get by quite well. For example, lets say a cabinetmaker who produces quality furniture in his home woodshop and sells to private customers. Otherwise only teaching English remains an easy job for expats to find and that doesn't pay enough to get by on very well.

I'm truly worried about Brazil's economic future. Unless the government miraculously opens their eyes to the fact that the absurd bureaucracy in this country is killing the economy we're in big trouble; a bureaucracy that eats up one third of the country's GDP just to maintain itself (scary fact). As if that isn't bad enough then the most complex set of tax laws in the civilized world, that keep changing on a monthly basis I might add, are also keeping investors away. Capital controls are another sore point, while in principle I agree with a tax on foreign investments and the requirement that those funds can't be quickly repatriated in order to stem the inflow of hot money, it seems to be just one more nail in the coffin of the Brazilian economy when you add everything else up.

Then there's the Central Bank... don't even get me started. I'm having such trouble even cashing my Canadian pension checks because of insane bureacratic regulations it's unbelievable. I can only imagine just how much more difficult it is for companies in Brazil who rely on receiving payments from clients or customers abroad, ridiculous and completely counterproductive to the economy.

Is it going to change? I seriously doubt it. In my almost 12 years in this country the only thing that impresses me more than the warmth of the Brazilian people is the absolute lack of vision of the Brazilian government.

Regarding Portuguese... absolutely essential in order for expats to find work. While English is unquestionably the universal language of commerce it is spoken in two forms in Brazil - VERY LITTLE or NOT AT ALL. Even in major multinational companies you are hard pressed to find anyone who can speak English with sufficient fluency to give a presentation or carry on an English only teleconfrence. I know this from almost 12 years of personal experience that's taken me inside many major national and multinationals here, financial institutions and government institutions. Most companies have people with a basic working knowledge of the written language because of the internet and that's it, they need to get somebody to translate something as simple as an e-mail. Thus, speaking Portuguese fluently is forced upon any expat who wants to get ahead in the business world. Not that someone shouldn't learn the language as quickly as possible anyway, if for nothing else than to facilitate day-to-day living here.

  Cheers, 
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hi Paul,
Drive is a key factor to succeed in Brazil and you seem to have it. You have also identified your strong point which is to know potential investors for local companies.
Expat need to understand that foreign experience is not validated in Brazil and speaking english is only good if firstly they masterise portuguese so they really to have an extra skill than could interest local companies.
I hope my remark about going back to London was not rude but I was in the same situation than you and I really thought seriously about it (renting a studio, going to Brazil every 2 months for one week...). Local companies and UK onesŽ will not see you in the same way that when employed. Now you are a job seeker, before you were a colleague, client or competitor.
Do not be overwhelmed by good interview. I had bad experience with interviews; one time I did two interviews at Itau.  All went well; like it feels when you can share industrie experience and stories with people in front of you. I really thought they made me an offer and we will just continue next time to discuss contract/salary. Then I follow up but nothing happened. I had some very good experience in interviews for myself or for my teams (interviewing over the years hundreds of people in Paris, London, NYC, Hong-Kong) but I totally misunderstood the outcome of my interview at Itau SP.
Last thing: if not already done, you should check how to setup your company to work as a contractor. This is quite common in Brazil too and you will be much more employable; especialy because gringoes.
All the best.

Answering to William. Yes agree totally with you.
My point was : Brazil is not a place for short time expat job.
Gringoes who make it in Brazil became fluent in portuguese and integrated all Brazilian way of life. By this time they are not anymore "expats" but immigrants in Brazil (but still gringoes...).
Good or bad, I do not know. But I believe this is worth to try.

Hi Bardamu,

Of course you're correct about how after time we've adapted and stand more of a chance to "make it" here in Brazil.

From my experience though, even after almost 12 years here and a Brazilian wife and child; Brazilians will always see us as nothing more than tourists, just another "gringo". Even if we naturalize the average Brazilian never sees us as someone who "really" belongs here or has exactly the same rights as they do. This is completely wrong headed and incorrect since even as a Temporary or Permanent Visa holder a foreigner has all the same legal and constitutional rights as a born Brazilian except voting, running for office or public service jobs. Naturalized Brazilians do have those rights. They are only limited in the fact that they can't run for President, Vice, and other high ranking positions in government.

  Cheers, 
  William James Woodward – Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team