Family - Moving to Thailand

henrybuell wrote:

Hello,

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this and comment - and especially thanks to those of you who have made such great and informative posts here.  I have not read them all, but I have read quite a few (notes at the end of this post).

About Us

My wife and I currently live in Kyrgyzstan, a former Soviet Republic.  We have a 1 year old little boy, and 1 month old twin boys, and we are planning to move to Thailand.  I am American, and she is Kyrgyz.

What We Want

We are interested in a nice, quiet place in Thailand where we can peacefully live and raise our children.  Neither of us drinks or goes to bars and discos, and we'd like nothing better than some grass or a small yard for our kids to play in.

What We Can Afford

Our current base rent in Kyrgyzstan is equivalent to 20,000 THB, but we would ideally like to lower that.  Cutting it in half would be fantastic.  I have seen some online advertisements of places with a pool in the 15,000 THB range, but please correct me if that is too unrealistic.

What We Think We Need (with some questions)

Visas: preferably that will allow us to sit one year without needing to cross borders.  We absolutely do not want to cross the border every 90 days with 3 little babies - for their health, and our sanity.

At the moment I found an law firm that said they can give us one year visas where we will not need to leave the country until the end of the year, for $500 each, plus the added cost of putting our 3 children on with us.  Is that expensive, unrealistic, or about normal?

Utility Costs: are something I have a vague idea from based on the posts here.  It seems like 2 air conditioners and 500k to 2MB internet arrangement would not run us more than 9,000 THB a month (and possibly less).

Food Costs: are something else I am lost on.  Currently we spend close to $400 USD a month on food, but a food is absurdly expensive here.  Normally we don't eat out much, but I understand that often in Thailand it is less expensive to just eat out.  Is that true?  How about the risks of food poisoning for the kids?  Aside from that, what is an average monthly food cost (we're pretty low budget, excepting my coffee).

Safety: is another concern.  There are several posts I have read on this site about how dangerous and how horrible Thailand can be, but is it really that bad?  I've lived in Afghanistan, and in the ghetto's of the former Soviet Union, not to mention some pretty nasty places in Arabic countries too.  Everywhere has bad places, and when you have a family you just don't go out at night, you keep to yourselves, and you don't flash money (not an issue for us, since I'm a poor writer).  So... is it that bad, and do we really need security and bars on the windows and such?

Driving: How realistic is driving going to be?  We aren't rich, and I'd rather just budget $100 or so a month to hire a driver for the few times we'd need to go out.  Our kids are just babies, and as they grow we want to expose them to more children and such, but we don't have a car here, so is it really necessary?

Sicknesses: are something we read about, but how serious is it (the mosquito problem, etc...).  We don't want to move somewhere that will make our babies sick, but it seems like if we are careful then there should be no problems.  That said... are the mosquitos really that bad?

Thanks all in advance.  If you have any specific recommendations, that is great - even service providers, etc... I understand that everyone needs to make a buck, and I am not opposed to paying my real estate agent or whomever else a fair fee.

Best,
Henry

Henry welcome to the forum.

Great post. To much for me to answer in one go so I will address a couple of items if thats OK?

The Visa question.

My first thoughts are you are being ripped off, you and the wife at $500 a piece + the kids, a year? That's a minimum of 31,000 Baht!

However before I say that it is a rip off I would need to know:
1. what visa the "law firm" (I can guess who) are offering you and the family.

2.Will you be working LEGALLY in Thailand?

3. Do you intend to set up a business here i.e form a company with a Thai majority ownership?

I can see you are 40 and I guess your wife might be a bit younger than that.So retirement is out of the question. As is a marriage "visa" since your wife is not Thai.

Age and your intentions when living in Thailand directly effect what other visa you might be able to obtain to remain in the Kingdom for 1 year at a time.

Basically it will need to be a Non-Immigrant visa of some class, with a dependent visa for the wife and kids.

Sicknesses:

You will need health insurance or the means to self finance medical needs for you and your family since medical care in Thailand is not free.

Mosquitoes are a problem, mostly with regards to vector borne diseases like Dengue Fever, which is currently at a high level in the Kingdom.

That said using DEET based sprays and nets for the kids is a big help.

You might like to read this thread on the cost of living in Thailand, which is currently running on the board.

You might like to read this thread on the cost of living in Thailand, which is currently running on the board.

I will read over this now.  We can cover either insurance or cash payments.  If Thailand is anything like here, it is likely just easier and less expensive to pay cash rather than try to get reimbursed from a health plan provider (I gave up on that in this country, and we just pay cash now for everything).

Thanks again for your quick response.  Much appreciated!

Add... I could teach, and I thoroughly enjoy teaching, but my children are my priority.  I was not planning Thailand as a 'work' alternative.  However, if my ability to teach is an asset in terms of bringing my family to Thailand, then I am certainly open to the possibility.  I just had the impression that the lack of formal degrees or traditional certifications would hamper me, and I am too old to argue the value of experience and ability over certificates.

I also have a legally registered US LLC that I use to host web sites and do some web design.  It does not make much, and generally I charge $50 a year for US / European class hosting ($75 if you want a dedicated IP address), and about $100 for a one page / one language website.  I don't know how those rates compare to Thailand, and to get back to my opening statements - I'm a writer.  For every thousand web designers, there might be one writer, and I prefer writing.

Thanks

(edit - no sleep in a loooong time now, so if I ramble, it is due to lack of sleep and excessive diaper fumes)

Comments After Reading Your Thai Living Expenses Post:

(For anyone just scrolling through or reading this looking for help / advice, please note that I am responding to an earlier post and link to other information - all expenses I've listed here are local to Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan - a country that costs more to live in than I would pay living in America.)

I've read your link to expenses again (I read it earlier, but had another once over to be sure of things - most of your posts have been in the top, so I have read quite a few, and am glad to have had you respond directly to me).

We are currently paying something in this range (USD) per month - because Kyrgyzstan is an absurdly expensive place to live if you aren't from here - in fact it is common here for people to rent their apartments and go live in Thailand on the income (please note that ALL EXPENSES LISTED BELOW ARE FOR BISHKEK, KYRGYZSTAN):

Apartment Related:
$650 Rent (3 bedroom apartment)
$ 50 Internet (256k on a good day, despite paying for 4 MB)
$ 50 Phone (all prepaid, internet paid by the MB off balance)
$ 70 Utilities (monthly average counting winter heat)

Food and Baby Related:
(1 liter of milk is about $1.50 here)
$100 Vegetables
$250 Plus for other food items.
$125 Diapers (increase to $200+ by November)

Domestic Help
$250 We pay someone to help my wife so I can get time in to work

Yearly Visa Costs:
$1200 For my visa, more or less

For the rest... we take taxis everywhere (cars are too expensive, and the police far too corrupt for me to drive and stay sane).

In all we are at $1,500 a month standard, and up to $2,000 a month.  The quality of life is not very good:
1) Power is regularly off
2) Internet goes off constantly, and is out average 1 day / month
3) If you go out at night, there is a chance you will be randomly attacked (local or foreign, the same rules apply - though of course locals are less often targeted - though a few times a year someone I know shows up telling me how they were just randomly attacked when walking home - and I've also been attacked, even in the best parts of the city)

To me, this means that we should be able to live pretty comfortably in Thailand, having a better overall quality of life than we have here, with overall less danger, better food, and lower prices for just about everything.

Edit - Clarified that my listed expenses were currently based on Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, to avoid confusing people.

Henry

Thai Visa

You do not state which visa the law firm offered. Given your age and circumstances that you have outlined I fancy they may be trying to fix you up with an ED Visa since its the only long term visa other than a B (business) visa that would be available to you and your wife. Well thats not quite true since there is a volunteers O visa as well, but clearly you were not thinking of volunteering.

If it is an ED visa you will be required to "study" something here, usually the Thai language but it can be other things. However I am just speculating.

Unfortunately because you are new on the forum the link you posted to the firm is not showing.

PM me with the link if you wish and I will gladly give you my opinion.

If you visit any Thai consulate or Embassy web site they will give you all the information you need on obtaining a Thai visa. The web site of the Thai consulate in Hull UK is particularly user friendly. I know you are a US citizen but the visa info is still relevant.

Here is another link to theThai Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding Thai Visas. You can clearly see the different visas that are available here.

Before you start the other plans you have the VISA question really needs answering.

I am happy to answer your other queries in due course or someone else on the forum will chip in.

Thank you Mike.  My apologies on missing the 'which' visa question.

The office actually did not tell me which visa, just that my wife and I could both get a 1 year visa, and not need to leave the country, with no problems in adding our children as dependents.

They were clear on the point that both of us needed separate visas though, and that I could not sponsor her under mine.

I will PM you the link now, and will look at the other sites.

Thanks again for the help.  I've also gone ahead and sent my CV to some marketing and similar firms that might be interested in someone with my experience and qualifications who is willing to work for less than the standard 'international' expat rate - particularly if part time.

So, we'll see.  Ironically this all started with our honeymoon to Malaysia a a year+ ago and deciding that we would like to live in that part of the world over Kyrgyzstan - and now we're rapidly moving in that direction.

Best,
Henry

Thanks again Mike.  I've had a look over the sites.  Getting a visa definitely looks a bit more involved then the law firm led me to believe it was.  Very helpful responses, and your advice is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Henry

henrybuell wrote:

Thanks again Mike.  I've had a look over the sites.  Getting a visa definitely looks a bit more involved then the law firm led me to believe it was.  Very helpful responses, and your advice is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Henry

My pleasure. Glad to be of help.

Hi- I can't answer your legal questions but I am an American who has lived in Bangkok for the past 22 years. My daughters were born and raised here and we love it.

If you live in Bangkok, you would not need a car. Public transport is available in the way of busses, sky train, taxis, etc.  However, finding a place that is very green in the city at your budget would be difficult.

Maybe upcountry or beach side - Hua Hin, Krabi, Rayong - they all have small expat communities and should be less expensive.

Tourists are targetted in any country. If you move to Thailand, you become a local, you get to know your neighbours and if you are patient, they will help you figure things out.

I think the thai people are generally very welcoming and they love children!!!

Thanks Bonnie!  The community so far has been great.  At the moment I am discussing an ED visa with a company, and will update you as to how that goes.  Hopefully when I get my book published and become a best seller, we'll be able to afford better digs

Best,
Henry

Hi Henry,

I saw your post about your family trying to move to Thailand. We are also, and have two boys under age 2. I am researching visas and am struggling to find a way to get a one year business visa or ED visa because we will not be employed, but living on our savings while we start an online business.

How did you find a company to sponsor an ED visa for you?

Hello Stash, actually I would not have been able to get nearly as far as I have without the assistance of Mike 'thetefeldon' who responded earlier.  He has been amazing in terms of help.

For my part, combined with his help and a long (long, long) search online of the various companies and locations I could find who were offering visas, I learned the following:
1) Any form of massage or martial arts training related ED visa is pretty much a no go.
2) Many of the  language schools won't respond.  Of those that did (the one that did), they are usually very responsive.  I have included a link and will PM you with the details.

Since your wife is also American (I assume) you should have no problems.  Mine is not American, so concerns have been raised that we will not be able to get her sponsored under me, and will instead need a separate ED visa for her.

I am going to PM you some of the information Mike sent me, as it will definitely help you, but in simple terms, from what I ahve learned, your case should be very simple, and take about $500-$800 dollars (inclusive course costs, visa costs, and postage costs depending on where you live and how you post).

You will make contact with the school, choose where you want to live / study (they have several locations), and then make a deposit payment (15,000 THB), after which they will arrange an invitation letter from the Thai Government that will allow you to get your ED visa, and then you will travel there with your whole family.  Once in the country, you will change the tourist visas of your family members to dependent visas, and then just need to check in every 90 days or so, as I understand it, with the ability to renew your visas for up to 3 years.

Obviously I am no expert, and other than my experience with the language school (in progress), I am just regurgitating what I have been told by others.

Add, if you or your wife has a college degree, you are also eligible to teach English, which is worth considering.

On the language school, this is what they told me (I am posting it here so that others can comment as to whether this is crazy - but it looks very much in line with what I have seen to date).  This is verbatim from the email (actual contact details removed so I don't get dinged for advertising), and the school is at http://www.prolanguage.co.th/ - they also say you can study a different language, but I am not sure how well that would fly with the Thai Ministry, and honestly, I wouldn't want to risk any uncertainty when there are babies involved:

Dear Henry,

   Thank you for interesting  ED Visa with Pro Language School , You
and your wife can apply ED Visa in Malaysia  and with your children
can stay in thailand with you too but you have to contact immigration
after you get ED Visa and stay in Thailand .may I send step to make ED
Visa detail as below;

1. You can get ED-VISA from your country before you come to Thailand .
2. When you arrive Thailand you can come to our school for registered
ED-VISA at school.

I'm sending you here detail to get ED visa as following;

Tuition fee for Thai intensive course 180 lessons
(speaking, listening, reading and writing)
(at least 2 lessons/day,1 lesson = 50 minutes)
: private =  B.80,000 (You could set a schedule by yourself as flexible )
: group of  12-15  students =  B.23,000 / person **we have new
beginner group every two month**


         If you would like to register from your country can you fill
the documents as i'm sending you here attached 3 files
(I'm sending the example form for you as well, you have to put by your
handwriting and sign your name in application form as in example form.


1.  After fill the form pls send to us my Email to checking and also
send to me 1 picture by Email (with polite shirt) (picture with normal
size , 3x5 cms,  and passport copied (only first page of your picture
and passport number) (please sign your name in passport copied)

2.  Transfer deposit 15,000 Thai baht to our account bank ;

        Pro language Co.,ltd.
        Kasikorn Bank
        Sukhumvit 15 Branch
        607 1 00149 9
        Current Account
        15,000  Thai baht

        SWIFT CODE : KASITHBK



   3. pls send the receipt of transferred the deposit 15,000 baht by
Email also, then we will process your application form and wait the
approval letter from Thai Ministry about 3-4 weeks,

  * If MOE did not approve your documents, deposit will be refunded 100 % *
  * If you want to cancel during the process, your deposit will not be
refunded. *

4. We will inform you as soon as we got the 1st approval letter from
Thai Ministry and we will send the letter to you by TNT or DHL to your
address (this process you have to pay for the expense for DHL / TNT)

5. After you received the 1st letter from us you have to go to Thai
Embassy or consulate in your country or any country to stamp the ED
VISA  (they will give you 3 month first) and bring your passport to us
for processing the second step after you come Thailand (this process
you have to pay for the balance) and you can start Thai course as soon
as possible.

** we will process the second letter for you as information of our
email last time**


If you have any question please feel free to contact me. We look
forward to hearing from you soon .


--
Best regards,

Komen Th. ( Coco )

As a last note I was also told that Pattaya is not a great place to raise a family, and to plan to spend about two months in a guest house on arrival, because many Thai persons do not advertise rentals through agencies, meaning you can sometimes score a sweet deal just by driving around and looking for signs on the doors.  So... keep that in mind, and good luck.  I hope I have been able to pass on a little of the help I've received here, and I am sending you a PM too.

Best,
Henry

Thank you Henry. This information has been very helpful. This might work for us. I didn't know much about the ED visa except that I heard it was difficult to get. So thank you for passing on what you've learned.

Thanks for the link to your website. I will definitely check it out.

No problem.  Another company has contacted me as well, but indicated that I should fly to Thailand and then get the paperwork and such sorted.  Everything I have learned to date indicates that you absolutely can not legally change visa status to an ED visa from inside of the country.

As an American you could go to Malaysia from Thailand and do it, but why subject your babies to border runs.  Get it sorted out before you go.

If I may ask (and feel free to PM me), what are your reasons for leaving the US with your family?  That can also have a lot to do with the how and why of your leaving.

For example, there are other countries in the world that are extremely friendly to US citizens and their families.  Belize comes to mind in South America, Republic of Georgia in the Caucasus, Netherlands in the EU (search DAFTA), and honestly, the US Virgin Islands are a great tropical place, as is the big island in Hawaii.  Each of them offers a very different style and pace of life than America.

Not that I am turning you off to Thailand by any means.  Just curious as to what in particular had you interested in Thailand.

Henry,

I contacted Siam Legal about visas. They do a live chat and give a lot of information. Have you talked with them? I have seen a few posts recommending them, but wondered if anyone has actually used their services.

We want to move to Thailand for a few reasons. We want a place that is safe, offers quality health care, and has a low cost of living relative to the US. After having kids, these have become our priorities. We also love experiencing places very different from what we're used to.

My interest in Southeast Asia is working in low-income housing development. This will have to come slowly as I am a full-time mom. My husband is learning to trade markets and will be able to work from any location so long as we have reliable internet. I have an African Studies minor and always planned on living somewhere in Africa, but for now we need a country that is safe and developed enough to provide what we need for the kids and internet so my husband can work. Thanks for the suggestions of other countries to consider. We plan on moving every 3-5 years.

What is bringing you to Thailand?

Best,
Shayna

Hi Shayna,

I talked to Siam Legal, and was considering using them, but some people pointed out to me that I would be paying close to 25,000 Thai money for the visa, when that is the cost of the entire one year language program - making them somewhat overpriced.

So they charge a lot for the visa processes, and in my case they can't arrange something for my wife since she is not American, so it won't work for us.

We were considering Thailand because we liked Malaysia so much, but the long term visa requirements for Malaysia are a bit strict on westerners who just want to come spend their money in the country (unless you are prepared to invest a large sum with next to no return on investment).

We are moving from Kyrgyzstan because it is more expensive than living in America, and the systems for obtaining long term visas just get more corrupt and absurd with each passing year.

Anyway, good luck with the move   As I understand it, Thailand is great, and if we end up there, we'll probably enjoy ourselves, but if we don't, we'll pick somewhere else enjoyable.

Just keep in mind that you can't tell anyone what you are doing for money in Thailand, as even working from home as a writer or a day trader is illegal without a work permit (the chances of being caught are about zero, but still... best to keep personal business personal when in another country).

Best,
H

@henrybuell

Hi Sir i was read your pist that you are moving to Thailand if in case you need a housekeeper maid kindly  let me know currently living   in thailand  Prakhanong area have a safe travel and welcone to Thailand.

    @henrybuell
Hi Sir i was read your pist that you are moving to Thailand if in case you need a housekeeper maid kindly  let me know currently living   in thailand  Prakhanong area have a safe travel and welcone to Thailand.
   

    -@Sonia A Magdayao

@henrybuell's post is 10 years old. Just saying.

For long term visa it is best to go to the Republic of Georgia. They have 1 year visa on arrival. Thailand makes it very challenging to stay long term unless you are age 50 and a retiree. Also, the Philippines has an east visa policy as well. Both countries are very inexpensive. Thailand monitors the education visa very closely and your attendance. Doing border runs all the time can add up and you really can only stay 6 months after that they will give you a hard time. If you have family go with consistency such as  mentioned above.

@Travelerusa

are you saying the Republic of Georgia offers Thai visas??

    For long term visa it is best to go to the Republic of Georgia. They have 1 year visa on arrival. Thailand makes it very challenging to stay long term unless you are age 50 and a retiree. Also, the Philippines has an east visa policy as well. Both countries are very inexpensive. Thailand monitors the education visa very closely and your attendance. Doing border runs all the time can add up and you really can only stay 6 months after that they will give you a hard time. If you have family go with consistency such as  mentioned above.
   

    -@Travelerusa

FYI, you can only do 2 border runs per calendar year.

@Haitijack

ED visa are a 24/7 job. If both you and your wife try this it will be very challenging with having kids. However, you could get a sitter to help out. Immigration don't play with ED visas. They were heavily abused and people were not showing up so they put a big clap on this. Check with the school direct and find the required in class  hours and grade you have to maintain. I had friends that did this and they went to other visas and finally left.  I have known digital nomads that did get someone to sponsor them and they stayed many years in Thailand under the B Visa. It sounds like you are getting income through on-line services. There is a special visa for digital nomads they recently started in Thailand. I would seriously look at doing a business visa. It offers more stability, in which a family needs. Also, if you are a US Veteran and qualify for the GI Bill they have Webster university in HuaHin which allows you to bring your family and it's not as stressful as trying to learn Thai through the ED. If you're not a veteran look them up. You can get a degree and bring your family as an American student. I Mentioned the republic of Georgia because it's easy. I do understand you want to move and live in Thailand. If you get your wife a US passport this would help as well. Easier entry in many countries.

It's called a Smart S Visa for digital nomads

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/th … ork-permit

    @Haitijack
ED visa are a 24/7 job. If both you and your wife try this it will be very challenging with having kids. However, you could get a sitter to help out. Immigration don't play with ED visas. They were heavily abused and people were not showing up so they put a big clap on this. Check with the school direct and find the required in class  hours and grade you have to maintain. I had friends that did this and they went to other visas and finally left.  I have known digital nomads that did get someone to sponsor them and they stayed many years in Thailand under the B Visa. It sounds like you are getting income through on-line services. There is a special visa for digital nomads they recently started in Thailand. I would seriously look at doing a business visa. It offers more stability, in which a family needs. Also, if you are a US Veteran and qualify for the GI Bill they have Webster university in HuaHin which allows you to bring your family and it's not as stressful as trying to learn Thai through the ED. If you're not a veteran look them up. You can get a degree and bring your family as an American student. I Mentioned the republic of Georgia because it's easy. I do understand you want to move and live in Thailand. If you get your wife a US passport this would help as well. Easier entry in many countries.
   

    -@Travelerusa

"ED visa are a 24/7 job."

Really? Where did you get that nonsense info? You're going to school and not 7 days a week.

The Smart S bids may be out of reach looking at the request.

google Webster University in Thailand. Also, if you want to teach basic conversation English in Thailand you can get an on-line ESL certificate. Because you are a native speaker and US Citizen that puts you above the game. Look for schools that will accept you and your family as an English Teacher. They also have places / schools that teach you ESL on the ground here then placed you in a school to teach. A fee for this is common. I would recommend doing a Recon and come first by yourself to clear the way for your family. It's always best before you just pick up and move your family.

    It's called a Smart S Visa for digital nomads
https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/th … ork-permit-@Travelerusa

This is not an official Thai authority website and the info is far from correct. Do you even live in Thailand? The SMART Visa is not designed for digital nomads.

The short version:

"The four categories of people who are eligible to apply for Smart Visa are: (1) Talent (2) Investor (3) Executive (4) Startup and (5) Others (i.e. legal dependents, namely spouse and children, if any)."

From BOI:

"Smart Visa is a new type of visa specially designed to attract highly skilled manpower, investors, executives and startups entrepreneurs wishing to work or invest in the following targeted industries in the Kingdom of Thailand."

Glad you have all the answers.

@Leeds forever!

I don't have a family. it is just me. I'll look more into it. I'll most likely come for a visit and learn what I need on the ground.

Appreciate your help

-Jeremie

@Travelerusa

thank you. this is very helpful. Cheers

-jeremie

@Travelerusa

I'm solo. no family. thank you for the info

-Jeremie

    Glad you have all the answers.
   

    -@Travelerusa

I have the answers because I live here and I've been here a while.

    @Travelerusa
are you saying the Republic of Georgia offers Thai visas??
   

    -@Haitijack

He meant you should stay in Georgia because of their 1 year visas, if that's even true. Who wants to stay there, anyway? Don't listen to clueless people. 

    @Leeds forever!

I don't have a family. it is just me. I'll look more into it. I'll most likely come for a visit and learn what I need on the ground.

Appreciate your help

-Jeremie
   

    -@Haitijack

How old are you?

@Leeds forever!

im 48, USA passport

you can DM me for a quicker reply 

that might be better

thanks

    @Leeds forever!
im 48, USA passport
you can DM me for a quicker reply 

that might be better

thanks
   

    -@Haitijack

If you were 50 everything would be so much easier.

@Leeds forever!

Honestly, I can wait 18 months. Thanks for all your help

    @Leeds forever!Honestly, I can wait 18 months. Thanks for all your help        -@Haitijack

If you can afford to park 800.000 baht in a Thai bank then you're home free. That's one of the official financial requirements if you want to retire in Thailand, and in my opinion the easiest way to do it. The age of 50 has nothing to do with retirement ages in western countries. It's just a number,but a good one.

@Leeds forever!

appreciate it