Cabo Rojo. We're moving to PR. Rincon or Cabo Rojo?

I moved from Alaska to Mayaguez. I also like the Rincon area. But I choose Mayaguez because. I work in Cabo Rojo. All cities are safe on the west coast.
My email is [email protected]. Send me a note if you want more info. We love it here so far.

There are a lot of people from stateside(gringos) in both Cabo Rojo and Rincon. I lived on the west coast and I don't speak Spanish other than a few key words and short sentences and managed to work things out just fine. Try to find a place where the water and electricity are reliable. There are a lot of things to do in both of those pueblos and a lot of good food to be had(it may not be the best for your heart though). williamusps, I know you are the eternal optomist and in a way I wish I could be a little more like you. But don't ever believe for one minute that all the cities on the west coast are safe. You haven't been there long enough to make that statement. Please do yourself a favor, I know you seem to always look at the bright side of things and I admire that about you. But please don't get too comfortable and let your guard down. You live on an island (essentially it's a narco state)where the murder rate is through the roof. The west coast cities are well represented in those statistics. Having said that, I have a fondness for Mayaguez myself. My wife is from there and I've spent a lot of time there. If you want to know anything about Mayaguez just ask me and I'll find out from my wife if I don't know. Best of luck to you madtowner and williamusps. A lot of surprises await you. But I sincerely hope you can find your paradise there. madtowner, look up www.elcoquiofrincon.com. It's a very well put together monthly magazine about what's going on in Rincon. If you ever get the chance to meet the editor, her name is Rhea Maxwell. She's an amazing woman. You can catch her sometimes on Sunday in the Rincon plaza attending the weekly farmers market. Which by the way is a great place to meet both locals and Rincon gringos. And I can't say it enough times, please carry a bag of dog food in your car and show some kindness to the stray dogs and cats when you are able.

madtowner - two new businesses just (or are about to) opened around the town square in Rincon, one a micro brewery/bar the other a high-end flip-flop/sandals/accessories store. Nearby a (gringo owned) child learning center just opened. Looks like a good time start your coffee bar on the town square, there are places for rent. Time to scout things is now (imho) before the high season starts. However imho a one week look see won't do it, more time may be needed to get into it and roll to a conclusion. I've responded to your posts before, I don't remember the content (and I'm too lazy to look it up) but a good way to get this done is to take some time off and take the jump. There are many people here that can help you.

victorlglass wrote:

madtowner - two new businesses just (or are about to) opened around the town square in Rincon, one a micro brewery/bar the other a high-end flip-flop/sandals/accessories store. Nearby a (gringo owned) child learning center just opened. Looks like a good time start your coffee bar on the town square, there are places for rent. Time to scout things is now (imho) before the high season starts. However imho a one week look see won't do it, more time may be needed to get into it and roll to a conclusion. I've responded to your posts before, I don't remember the content (and I'm too lazy to look it up) but a good way to get this done is to take some time off and take the jump. There are many people here that can help you.

Victor, is the Child Learning Center Melanie's business?  Are you still in Rincon?  I think I will be there the first or second week of september.

Where can I get information regarding the shops for rent on the square in Rincon?

I live on the other end of the island in Luquillo but last year we took a road trip to the Cobo Roho area and enjoyed the area. As far as English goes it is spoken all over the Island. Safety is another issue. Drug traffic is a problem all over Puerto Rico but so far most of the problems are between drug dealers and not directly effecting the general population. Rincon is a whole other area in that there a lot of expats there so if you want to go to an area where you will meet people like yourself then this is the area. I on the other hand want to go to and area where there is a good mix of locals and expats. The local Puerto Rican people are some of the most friendly people in the world. Good luck with your search.

madtowner - please don't take this the wrong way as I am trying to help - you get information about places for rent by coming to Rincon, searching for stores for rent using shoe leather, and talking to the people. Lots of places are not listed by real estate agents or advertised online or in newspapers. And I must underline: this can't be done in one or two weeks. You need to come and be prepared to stay as long as it takes to get it done. To help you and others wanting to open a business in the Rincon area I will state below what I would do. I will assume that I plan to open a coffee place on or near the town square.

1. I'd write a detailed business plan.
2. From my experience I know that I can't just open any old coffee shop. There are many places to buy coffee in and around the town square, and for 70 cents. I am passionate about coffee and do not buy coffee from these places as imho it is terrible. But the Puerto Rican customers have been drinking it for years, like it, and will not pay more than 70 cents for a cup of coffee even if it is outstanding. My target population will then obviously not include these locals. It will be tourists, expats, surfers with money, and middle class puerto ricans having disposable income.
3. My intended target population will pay a premium for my product if and only if it is top notch, i.e. outstanding. This can't be done with a Bunn coffee maker. I will need a professional expresso machine and grinder, and all that goes with this. I will need reliable sources for my ingredients and I would be using locally grown coffee beans. Also not anyone can make outstanding coffee and espresso. I'd need to have the skills of a barista and if I didn't I'd get consultation and/or get training (for me I've been making espresso for years and would know what to do).
4. There is a local business expert who, for a fee, will get all the paper work, permits, etc. done for me. She speaks Spanish and is networked into the system. I'd use her from the get-go and not even attempt to do this myself. The shortest time I've heard to get the paperwork and permits done for a business is six weeks and that person spent every working day during that six weeks getting this done. And he was just doing a food cart. It can take several months to get this all done and it is very stressful.

These are just some of the work needed to do this. For example did you know that the Puerto Rican government is eliminating the tax exempt status of wholesale supplies which will then bump up expenses by 7%?

I'll underline it again. Imho you will have a hard time doing what you want without coming to Rincon (or wherever) for an extended period of time. By the way Mayaguez might be a good location for a specialty coffee shop because the University and hospital are there, as well as other businesses and the bar is low for coffee.

In Rincon you would have to compete with a coffee shop/business called "Banana Dang" (look them up on the internet). They have a wide and excellent reputation among the locals and gringos and Tourists. Personally, as a businessman myself I would be very reluctant to go up against them. Victor is absolutely right about everything.  Starting a business of any kind and getting permits takes a very long time, mountains of effort and the patience of Job. Nobody is trying to be a downer. It's just frustrating getting ANYTHING done in PR when the government is involved, at any level. He is also right about the fact that it's nearly impossible that any Puerto Rican will pay more than 70 cents for a cup of coffee. There is currently at least one coffee shop on the square that I know of and a Panaderia that sells coffee.

Victor is also right about the fact that you gotta be there. And not for just a little while. Renting a space there and doing business is nothing like you can imagine. You will need to work closely with somebody that has connections and knows the ins and outs of getting things done. Trying to do it all on your own (like you probably can where you are now) will get you nowhere fast. This is a good example why there is a thriving underground economy on the island where everything is done in cash and the government gets circumvented.

I've discussed the viability of a coffee bar on the town square with the owners of Banana Dang (Mario and Thahn Thahn) and they think it will work. In fact there was one in the metal kiosk and it's name was Saludos and it did a bang up business, and they had very acceptable espresso drinks and sandwiches. It's closing was a blow to downtown Rincon. They were basically screwed by Rincon which leased the kiosk to them. The lease included water and electricity. However the going story is they were presented with a $3,000 water bill and couldn't pay it. Saludos had a French bistro theme and was surrounded by nice metal bistro tables and chairs with umbrellas.

So a good coffee bar that serves excellent espresso and coffee drinks and sandwiches would complement Banana Dang and not be competing directly with it. Banana Dang is open 7am to 4pm (kitchen closes at 3pm) and Saludos was open 9am to 7pm. BD is closed on Tuesdays and Saludos was closed on Mondays (and I'd run into Joel, the mananger of Saludos, having coffee at BD). Also BD is located in Puntas requiring a car ride whereas Saludos was right in town. A favorite thing we did was go to the farmer's market and then walk over to Saludos for breakfast.

By the way Banana Dang is on the market if anyone is interested in a turnkey business.

Victor and Gregg.  Thanks for your detailed responses.  I greatly appreciate the time, effort and thought it takes to compose that much information.

Gregg, the connections thing is extremely valuable intel.  Thanks.

Inquiries on this forum were purely to define gray areas, mostly generalities that I would have no knowledge of because I have never lived there.  Basic things like a general range of pricing for retail fronts on the square.  Is it $500ish or is it $5,000ish?  Things like that are the beginnings, the building blocks of a potential business concept.

I am very aware of Banana Dang and what they have to offer, I went over there when I was there last time.  Yes I, know it's for sale and no I don't want to buy it.  The asking price is cost prohibitive for me.

I greatly appreciate your advice about business plans and your concern that I would need one, however, I also know how to create a business plan having done so previously for an actual business that remains successful and having been a business major in college.  No degree though, couldn't afford to keep going.  A specific business plan is a long way off though.  I needed to know a lot of very basic information, general things like I referred to in the opening paragraph of this post, a very general range of costs for retail frontage on the square as one example.  This basic information is what composes the building blocks in the foundation of an actual business plan and as such is the type of information I need to start formulating.

I also have a plan in place for learning the coffee business.  I have a very good friend (she will actually accompany me on my trip down in Sept.) who's brother owns several coffee shops here in the states and my plan is to intern with them for several months or for whatever period of time it takes to learn everything I need to know about operating a coffee shop and making great coffee.  If I weren't going to do that there are several coffee schools here.

Gregg, thanks for bringing up the red tape issues with PR government.  I did speak to two business owners in Rincon when I was there last and I heard thier stories about governmental red tape in regards to starting their busineses...yikes.  I understand that this will be a long process.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.  I appreciate your passion and desire to be helpful.

Thanks again,
Art

Good luck and let us know how you do. Look forward to you opening a business in Rincon that contributes to the vitality of the community (if in fact you choose Rincon). EOT

victorlglass wrote:

I've discussed the viability of a coffee bar on the town square with the owners of Banana Dang (Mario and Thahn Thahn) and they think it will work. In fact there was one in the metal kiosk and it's name was Saludos and it did a bang up business, and they had very acceptable espresso drinks and sandwiches. It's closing was a blow to downtown Rincon. They were basically screwed by Rincon which leased the kiosk to them. The lease included water and electricity. However the going story is they were presented with a $3,000 water bill and couldn't pay it. Saludos had a French bistro theme and was surrounded by nice metal bistro tables and chairs with umbrellas.

So a good coffee bar that serves excellent espresso and coffee drinks and sandwiches would complement Banana Dang and not be competing directly with it. Banana Dang is open 7am to 4pm (kitchen closes at 3pm) and Saludos was open 9am to 7pm. BD is closed on Tuesdays and Saludos was closed on Mondays (and I'd run into Joel, the mananger of Saludos, having coffee at BD). Also BD is located in Puntas requiring a car ride whereas Saludos was right in town. A favorite thing we did was go to the farmer's market and then walk over to Saludos for breakfast.

By the way Banana Dang is on the market if anyone is interested in a turnkey business.

Thanks for the insight Victor.  I had not seen this post before I completed the last one I worte, we must've been writing at the same time.

Victor, have we met? I used to be a vendor at the Rincon farmers market. I had my own canopy set up next to the fountain and sharpened knives and machetes.

There is something here that we haven't discussed- political connections. My guess is that it wasn't just something as simple as a misunderstanding about the water and being presented with a $3,000 water bill. In a prime area like the plaza you need to know somebody to open a business and stay successful. You have to have political connections and grease the wheels financially. For example, Saludos could have been the most popular place to have coffee and sandwiches, but if there are any businesses nearby that sell something similar though inferior and these businesses have been there for years, and let's say they even contributed time and money to the current Alcalde's election, they might complain to the Alcalde that Saludos is hurting their business. So these businesses who have probably been there for generations call on the Alcalde to return the help he was given in the last election. Then they just come up with a way to force Saludos out, despite the fact that they were wildly popular, because the Alcalde knows these same businesses will support him in the next election. When it comes down to it, just about every small business in Puerto Rico lives and dies by what political connections you have and how well you support them.

As for square footage prices, I have no clue. There again it could depend on who you know. But as a gringo having a business in the plaza of any pueblo on the island, you are going to have to develop some serious connections to stay in business no matter how popular your product is. I once got into an argument with a festival manager in Rincon because another vendor had come in to the fiesta and disconnected my power supply and I didn't know it. When I found out later who it was I tried to talk with the manager about it so I could get hooked back up and do my work so I could make some money. I even offered some solutions that would appease everyone. You know what I got? Nothing!! Except for a bad attitude. When I objected his reply was "we do things differently here!", in apparent reference to the fact that I'm obviously from the states and the guy that took my power was a local and a regular at the fiestas. These are things you will probably have to deal with on some level. I can tell you that if you rent actual store space and your utilities aren't included in the lease they will be sky high. When you are in Puerto Rico and making a good hard honest effort to get something going, just remember- "We do things differently here".

Yikes Gregg!  So far, this is the only thing that has really gotten my attention and not in a good way.  There is really no overcoming a scenario like that.  Invaluable info.  Thanks for the utilities heads up.  I figured that may be the case from what I've heard.

The same would be true in Cabo Rojo. But there you might have a little bit better chance. The last Alcalde did some serious work on revitalizing parts of the pueblo and it looks so much nicer than it used to. If I had stayed in PR I might have tried to do some business in Cabo Rojo. The funniest thing is that the new Alcalde has the same last name as me, "Kurtz". I'm sure that could have helped me in some way. We would probably be the only two on the entire island with that name. Heck, we might even be related somehow.

Getting back to something Victor said, you need to spend plenty of time there. Be sure to be flexible in everything you do and expect the unexpected. That's why I always caution people who want to move to PR with knowing little or nothing about the culture and how things work. I was very fond of Rincon but I'd still check out Cabo Rojo just the same.

I'd suggest you get in touch with a guy named Rafael Cotto at foodiespr.com. He knows everybody on the island that has anything to do with food. He's a native and very well known and liked. He frequents Cabo Rojo often. He is THE best person I know to give you advice on what you want to do. He can help you in many different areas from marketing and promotion to hooking you up with the right people. You can find him on facebook or just go to his website. If you get in touch with him tell him that Gregg Kurtz the knife sharpener sent you. Tell him I'm doing just fine in Florida.

Thanks for the reference Gregg.  I will be sure to pass along your hello when I talk to him.

I live in Cabo Rojo... a lot of trees came down but most businesses are open and i habe water... no electric of course. Most people dont speak English but are very friendly. I bought my home in June...