Monthly support to Vietnamese GF a mistake?

Just got into reading this thread and I was shocked.  While my fiance and I were waiting for her visa approval I was sending her $200 a month.  This was for her and her daughter.  This covered her food, fuel for her moped and the monthly "contribution" to her daughter's teachers.  She did not really work as she is older and was unable to find a decent job.  She did do some occasional work doing nails and knitting hats, scarfs, etc.  She really lived pretty good in Nha Trang.  The $800 a month being sent to a friend is very exorbitant.  And do you really think she isn't working, considering it is difficult to find time to converse online?  Yes, you are being taken.  Open your eyes and think with the big head, not the small head.

sounds like you can hear those alarm bells, RUN, have a read of the " marriage to a foriegner blog"

Oh my god!  The OP of this thread is the same guy (who is from my same city), that asked about the cost of a WEDDING!  I really hope he will reconsider marrying her, and just dump her instead!

Trust me bro, get rid of her!!!

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=284027

mikeymyke wrote:

Oh my god!  The OP of this thread is the same guy (who is from my same city), that asked about the cost of a WEDDING!  I really hope he will reconsider marrying her, and just dump her instead!

Trust me bro, get rid of her!!!

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=284027

Congratulations. You joined the dots.
It appears their relationship had developed.
When he returns to Vietnam,
1. He cant stay at her family house
2. There may be difficulties with hotels. Hotels are not long term solutions.
I was a witness to a hotel raid and the local vietnamese girls were treated like prostitutes.
I dont think you like that on your future wife's public record.
3. USD800 may seem a lot to the average Vietnamese worker population.  christine thuy already stated that she earns more than USD1000 and same2 with many of her friends.
(see above in this thread)

If Nash monthly support was USD800 so that she did NOTHING but stayed home to chat with him.
Nash is returning to Vietnam to MARRY her. She is preparing an apartment for his return.
Westerners have higher value for privacy. In Vietnam and most of Asia, we should also consider personal security. It is common to have maids and servants to do the daily chores. Particularly boss of a restaurant(closed).
She is furnishing the apartment with what girls dream of how their dream homes should be.
Nash opened two threads and you managed to cross reference both.
I don't think we have complete information.
4. Self employed business people usually bring in more.
Check out how much does a WAITRESS in Alfresco Group take home.

solo1,you can't blame me (and other responsible parents in the west) if I would react extremely if a guy in 60ties would want date my daughter in early 20ties. Try this in west and see what happens. On the other hand why should I have respect for girls who are in it for financial gains and parents who are OK with it? I could have used less direct approach but you have been pretty direct too.

To put things in perspective,my opinions are not that extreme,just the choice of words. Just look at this thread, most commenters are (more or less directly) calling this guy a fool for being so naive/blind and his girlfriend a gold digger riding him hard. No one has really met her to hear her story yet there is a strong bias against her. Some are even advising him to dump her and run. I have no desire to defend her because I agree with majority. You know how that goes: If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck - then it is probably a duck.

I heard a guy in a bar one get told "She is young enough to be your daughter" His reply was " Yeah, but she is not MY daughter"
If you are N (pick any age) and the girl is over 18 then best of luck to you as long as everyone involved is happy. I know a few guys with money to burn who have younger girlfriends and are under no illusions about why they are together. I have no issues with the girls either as they have made a choice and many times are just trying to help their families.

Tito12 wrote:

solo1,you can't blame me (and other responsible parents in the west) if I would react extremely if a guy in 60ties would want date my daughter in early 20ties. Try this in west and see what happens. On the other hand why should I have respect for girls who are in it for financial gains and parents who are OK with it? I could have used less direct approach but you have been pretty direct too.

I thought you packed your bags and left this low life land where every female is a walking street worker looking out for aged white sugar daddies.
I hear it is highly infectious and being a protective person with a new wife who is female, I would get on the first plane out. A poor western female is already infected, and is willing to chat for USD800 a month.

Tito12 wrote:

solo1,you can't blame me (and other responsible parents in the west) if I would react extremely if a guy in 60ties would want date my daughter in early 20ties. Try this in west and see what happens. On the other hand why should I have respect for girls who are in it for financial gains and parents who are OK with it? I could have used less direct approach but you have been pretty direct too.

To put things in perspective,my opinions are not that extreme,just the choice of words. Just look at this thread, most commenters are (more or less directly) calling this guy a fool for being so naive/blind and his girlfriend a gold digger riding him hard. No one has really met her to hear her story yet there is a strong bias against her. Some are even advising him to dump her and run. I have no desire to defend her because I agree with majority. You know how that goes: If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck - then it is probably a duck.

My last comments were deleted as were some of yours. Let me say this: You've had your run of words so drop it. Others agree with me and I am sure some agree with you. Express your opinions as you see fit but refrain from attacking me and others personally as it really is only self serving.

I heard a guy in a bar one get told "She is young enough to be your daughter" His reply was " Yeah, but she is not MY daughter"

VungTauDon,we both know that my stance is completely normal in west but being in SE Asian country it is me who is pissing against the wind with a completely valid (parental) mentality. Yes, precisely,it is easy to say this when it is someones elses daughter but when it is yours?  What if we were in some Muslim country and their way and standards of treating women? It's sad to see how quickly good western values erode once you go to a country that doesn't have them.

hELLnoi,in a way it is bizarre to see how SE Asia skews the mentality of western men living here and they not only advocate but also do things they would never do or were against while they were in the west. If you go to some Muslim country with your western outlook on freedoms and rights for women you will also be seen as a disturber.Should we just accept them?Does the way they do it suddenly become acceptable? Not at all!  I am aware that I'm in minority here but I am not concerned, it's important to maintain your standards wherever you are.

solo1,ok. This and my (few) previous posts are politically correct as possible anyway,at least from my perspective..

Western values are one thing but being judgmental is something else.
If I were in the US with my wife (again, I'm 47 and she is 30) most but not all wouldn't even give us a second look. My first wife in the US was 9 years older than me and that was never an issue either.
As stated before I don't care what 2 consenting adults do what ever their age difference, as long as they are both happy and getting what they want/need out of the relationship.
The problem I have is when 1 of the persons in the said relationship are being cheated.

Also the majority of foreign men who marry Vietnamese women are not even "westerners" They come from Taiwan, Korea and China.

VungTauDon wrote:

Also the majority of foreign men who marry Vietnamese women are not even "westerners" They come from Taiwan, Korea and China.

Too true!And some of the girls unfortunately get no say in the  matter whatsoever.

Tito12 wrote:

hELLnoi,in a way it is bizarre to see how SE Asia skews the mentality of western men living here and they not only advocate but also do things they would never do or were against while they were in the west. If you go to some Muslim country with your western outlook on freedoms and rights for women you will also be seen as a disturber.Should we just accept them?Does the way they do it suddenly become acceptable? Not at all!  I am aware that I'm in minority here but I am not concerned, it's important to maintain your standards wherever you are.

No, you have been beating the women of Vietnam to walking street workers who prey on elderly white men. We all read how you force your views into several topics and start your 1000 words baggery on Vietnamese women. Please do not enforce your righteousness. You did not attack the old westerner but just direct your charge on the Vietnamese woman. You have read what some thought of you. If you don't respect the Vietnamese women, at least respect yourself.
What is happening on the other side of the world is not the topic in discussion.

Now hEllnoi, remember he does have a whole 15 years of experience living in SE Asia. 

Can I get an "Amen"!!

hELLnoi,stop trying to use cheap debate tricks.I speak about certain kind of women and not about all. Solo1 used generalization statements about all Thai women and I don't see you accusing him hating Thai women. Even more,few people here have made extremely generalizing and untrue statements about middle aged western and Vietnamese women yet you have no problem with that. Not sure how many times I have to put it in bold that I talk only about specific kind of women.

VungTauDon,I hope you'll be much stricter than you say here in case the daughter would want to date some dopehead,be GFE for some businessman visiting Vietnam looking for some fun or pulling a Anna Nicole Smith kind of relationship,despite everything being consensual too.

I'm using westerners as an example because we are all westerners knowing the western values. I know what's going on in Vietnamese countryside but that's Vietnamese and Taiwanese mentality and we are not that.

The problem I have is when 1 of the persons in the said relationship are being cheated.

Same here but we just have different tolerance levels and definitions on where cheating or non sincerity starts. Nashcat doesn't really think (he has some doubts though) he is being cheated but majority of people here are certain he is being taken for a ride. Would you say a person is being cheated when a partner is with them for,let say, financial benefit yet they pretend and make them believe it is for something else? Is this your definition of being cheated?  Does it make a difference if they know about it or if they mistakenly believe it is not so and that their case is an exception? We all base our conclusions on certain signs we see. I believe one such sign is much larger age gap (eg. generation gap & more). Just like the girl requesting more and more money is another indication. The more signs are there the less judgmental it is when we assume something. Are we all being judgmental in Nashcat's gf example or are we offering a fair assessment of the situation based on the certain criteria and signs we see? Why is it ok to take all the various signs into account except the age and if we do we are already judgmental?

Somebody wake me when this is over!!

Tito12 wrote:

VungTauDon,I hope you'll be much stricter than you say here in case the daughter would want to date some dopehead,be GFE for some businessman visiting Vietnam looking for some fun or pulling a Anna Nicole Smith kind of relationship,despite everything being consensual too.

I have a daughter and yes you can bet your ass I will be much more stricter.
One of the thing I don't like about Vietnam is the willingness of some (a very few)families to ship their daughters from the rural countrysides into the big cities so they can go to work in bars and seedy karaoke clubs just so they can send money home.

Tito12 wrote:

Same here but we just have different tolerance levels and definitions on where cheating or non sincerity starts. Nashcat doesn't really think (he has some doubts though) he is being cheated but majority of people here are certain he is being taken for a ride. Would you say a person is being cheated when a partner is with them for,let say, financial benefit yet they pretend and make them believe it is for something else? Is this your definition of being cheated?  Does it make a difference if they know about it or if they mistakenly believe it is not so and that their case is an exception?

I think that anytime someone is being lied to they are being cheated but I have found that in Vietnam it is sometime very difficult to tell the difference because Vietnamese women tend to give 100% of themselves in a relationship no matter why they are in the relationship. I quoted this before but I can't find the link any more but in a poll conducted last year they found that around 35% of the married women between the ages of 18 to 65 married because or were in love with their husbands at the time they were married. Most said they married to provide security for themselves and their families. They also said that the Vietnamese men understood this. They also said that many of them did end up falling in love with their husbands later after being married awhile.
I think it makes a big difference before marriage because many men have been cheated out of lots of money and when the money dried up they go looking for another sucker.
I don't know Nash or his GF, and her situation may be totally legit but in my opinion it just seems not to be, but that is only my opinion.

I'm tired and I'm rambling now... lol

NashCat wrote:

Too many people get stuck on the amount of monthly support I give her. The amount is small proportion to my diposable income and is about the same as her income level beforehand.  I am starting to think there are too many poor people replying to this post and have no concept of money is relative. And yes, I do know the average wage of a vietnamese worker. Being said that, would your thoughts  and comments be different if I said the monthly support is $100?

Nash you received lots of great advice and people's personal experiences too. We don't know your future wife other than what you told us. Nobody can decide for you only you can so clear your head and try to see the bigger picture and what your future holds for you and your future wife down the road 10 years, 20 years and more.

You obviously have some reservation about your future wife or you wouldn't post about it here. The amount you give her has nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. You can be a millionaire and the $800 would still seem too much. It's the principal behind the amount. And I assume she's living in Nha Trang so I would guess $800 would go further there than in Ho Chi Minh city.

I know it's tough for you bro. You've known her for over a year and physically been with her for 3 months. Now you're contemplating ending your bachelorhood. Now is the time to test your future wife to see what signals she sends. Try making out with her if you haven't already and see how she reacts. Does she talk about her periods with you? Get nosey into her personal business when you go back to Vietnam again. Ask to see her cell phone messages and rummage around her bedroom. See what sort of clothing she wears. Yes these things would be extreme in Western society but in Vietnam it can be a bit more lax where nothing is off limit.

Vietnamese people in general and not just girls are very good at hiding their emotions. We call it 2 face in the West. You may not understand it now until you've experienced it. They can play 2 roles of being nice and all lollypops and next second be condescending and rude.

Best of luck bro. Whatever decision you make I wish you the best of happiness.

Sending money, it's your money to send.  If it makes you feel good then do it.  Just because I won't doesn't make it wrong.  I bellieve in practicing random acts of kindness. Two days ago in district 1 it was obvious to me that this young lady was desparate, wanting to sell her body. The cost of a blow job dropped from 500000 to 100000. I had her join us for lunch, the staf was rude to her but did serve her.  We ate and talked.  When we said our good byes I gave her 500000 for her baby for food.  I know I did not change her, but I hope she remembers that not all westerners are out for sex.

Theoretical question. Is personal wealth to be considered an attribute?

This is in context of a person having good looks, a great personality, prestigious career, physically fit, fabulous sense of humor, social status, well grounded personality, appropriate hygiene, adequate education, moral values, social values, sense of spirituality etc etc etc.

Granting me latitude then if a younger women finds any of the above appealing and a factor in becoming involved with an older man then what are we saying? More precise direct this dilemma to those who are under the assertion that it is just plain UNACCEPTABLE AND NOT MORAL for a younger women to be attracted to an older man because he posseses some of the above attributes AND has money. Even if wealth is a large contributing factor. Can we not then say the same if she is attracted to social status and a man with a solid career and good looks. Nay you say!! That is perfectly ok! But not for money because that is where you draw the line! Preposterous I conclude.

Your only defense is to say that money is not an attribute but before you do please look up the definition to avoid embarrassment.

I have answered my own question obviously. A young women being attracted to a wealthy man in context is NO DIFFERENT than if she sought out a significant other with good looks and physically fit coming from a good family. As long as obviously no one is being cheated, lied to or taken advantage of. Keep your Western values in the West on this one please. Let the young women, their families and older men enjoy their arrangement and keep your prejudices to yourself. Basically because none of us are interested in your anal retentive presuppositions.

perry88 wrote:

While my fiance and I were waiting for her visa approval I was sending her $200 a month...She really lived pretty good in Nha Trang.

Oh well Nha Trang...

I have a friend who doesn't even bother renting her house out in Nha Trang because it would only fetch around 500,000 dong.

Besides NashCat's situation is different. His girl is one we Americans would dub "high maintenance".

It's quite of typical story about love between Vietnamese girls and foreigner.
I'm a Vietnamese girl and i have to admit the truth: almos - not 100% - VN girls're in a relationship with foreigner because of money and a future in another country.
The thing is, you guys, have no idea about it.
There're so many things to talk about this social problem, i'd like to share if you're interested in.
But, here're some tips for you guys in case you're looking for a Vietnamese partner: find the girl who well-educated, have a career, have a clear personalities ( dont count on nice and kute, Vietnames girl're all nice) & get to know her through her friends ( if you can)...
In your case, i think you should have a serious conversation with her about everything. Believe me, if she loves you, she will have enough time for you everyday: chat, msm, skype. She has phone/ipad/PC...with 3G you guys can not lack of information everyday....
Well, i also have a boyfriend living in Eruope now and seriously, i never care about his money, i care about his moods & dreams & passion. We've been through the most difficulites of his life and i still stand by his side. So, i do hope u have a good relationship with your VN girlfriend.

NashCat wrote:

Too many people get stuck on the amount of monthly support I give her...I am starting to think there are too many poor people replying to this post...

That's why I didn't reply to this thread before. From your previous posts I already surmised that you have a high disposable income/money to burn and you already shared your perspectives on dating in the 'dating in HCMC' thread and I quote:

"Truth be known, date a Vietnamese woman please prepare to cover all expenses and I am not just talking about dating restaurant/entertainment expense....pay their rent, shopping, grocery, debts, etc."

And in reply to me directly: "Step out in the real world, it's culture and economic different than the West. And it's not about Gold Diggers...Vast majority of Vietnamese women are raised in traditional family household to think if u love them you da man and should be able to provide for them...Marriage is still highly dependent on the man's economic status"


So I'm going to go against the grain here and say I think you should send her the money.

Nam_ wrote:

"Truth be known, date a Vietnamese woman please prepare to cover all expenses and I am not just talking about dating restaurant/entertainment expense....pay their rent, shopping, grocery, debts, etc."

The vast majority of women that you would be dating are still living at home with their families and you would not be asked to pay anything related to that household.
You would be expected to pay for dates and any travel expenses though, including any friends she feels are need to accompany her. Shopping as well, but not for everyone and certainly nothing excessive.

The quoted text is NashCat's just to be clear...

Go shopping once you get back to VN and can stay. There are a lot of ladies around the world that lilike OPM (other peoples money). So be careful. These girls are real charmers in more ways than one. If she is serious you will soon find out once you get back. Sounds like she found a mark.

Tito12 social moral values are developed differently in all countries of the world. I've lived in 62 of them. They will be different. The issue is some Westerners think all the world must subscribe to their values. They then move to a foreign country and want nothing to be foreign. I've seen it run the gambit. I lived in Mexico where the American wanted to start the rule of law in America that all dogs be on a leash and the poop picked up. This in a country where most dogs a farel and they poop where they darn well please.
Look at the West's view on public breast feeding. They would put mother  away for indecency . Get over it bud, or move back to where they comport to your values.

I agree with you, bta87.  Back in the 1950s a term was invented: Ugly Americans.  You aptly defined it.

Yes and I don't think many Americans realize this is the image we portray to the world. It is sad.
Us that don't look at ourselves as the saving grace to the entire world must pay the price for this pius view I'm afraid.

I will generalize here and say that most Westerners think that the West is right on way too many subjects. I learned this when I did volunteer work in developing countries. Their values are not necessarily wrong they are just different.

bta87 wrote:

Yes and I don't think many Americans realize this is the image we portray to the world. It is sad.
Us that don't look at ourselves as the saving grace to the entire world must pay the price for this pius view I'm afraid.

At least Vietnam can take pride in that they're the only country in world history to have defeated the US in a war

Well said. Yet I think we should accept the fact that there are differences in this world. The world does not spin on the axis of the USA.

Sorry. I guess I took the discussion off topic a bit. It just irks me when I see Americans lamenting so much about how bad a country there a guest in and they dislike it so. All these countries have airports. Go back to the land of the home and the brave and the not so free. No one forced us to move to another country. But please don't try to make it in the likes of America. Differences are the spice of life.

and kicked Genghis khan out

bta87 wrote:

Sorry. I guess I took the discussion off topic a bit. It just irks me when I see Americans lamenting so much about how bad a country there a guest in and they dislike it so. All these countries have airports. Go back to the land of the home and the brave and the not so free. No one forced us to move to another country. But please don't try to make it in the likes of America. Differences are the spice of life.

I couldn't agree more, bta87.
I find it odd that some westerner keep complaining about Asian culture and values while they are still living in Asian countries.
It's very obvious, that there are cultural and value differences between Asia and the West. And no one can force its value applies to all civilization. The values of another culture should not be judged immediately as inferior or wrong, But as being simply different because we live in diversity. What we can do is respect each other, take the best and leave the worst from each value.

*(sorry if this reply out of topic from OP)

Ichaa you are one smart lady. Thanks so much for your kind remarks. Please allow me to apologize on behalf of the somewhat anal folks from my country. Ever where I travel they are out spreading the righteous word on how to live properly. Many of us love your country and thanks for being so kind to us. I love VN in so many ways. I've met many an Asian lady who dreams of coming to the land of the righteous. I try to explain to them it is not all milk and honey. If you've dreamed of sending your children to a school with armed guards guarding the teachers against the children then get your visa and come. If you want to pay $295 for ONE dragon fruit I sell you a truck load and retire in Da Lat. Again thanks for your kind comments and your welcoming ways of your wonderful homeland.