Expat input/participation in Libya development

What a nice rose-tinted view you have

No need to write a list, don't you realise that he regularly pops in here to see how we are all doing.

Lets play "guess his user name". Now I'm sure its not Sandman.
Still, you never know.

Sandman6 wrote:

What a nice rose-tinted view you have

sounds like someone is doing a roaring trade in those specs:cool:

ibngabal wrote:

**look to Transportation development.

The man speaketh the truth.

Mrs Sand was on her way back home today, getting the usual blah-de-blah from the taxi man. Our illusioned chauffeur procced to inform Madame, that in fact a "subway system" had already been approved for Tripoli.

We await man-with-shovel with baited breath.

ps. Please don't dig too far north, the tuna fishermen would like a sea to go fishing on.

It's not as crazy as it sounds. There actually is a plan for the Tripoli subway system.

How many years will it take to get the railway through libya? They have been working on that one since 2008. Progress is very slow, that is definitely something that could be improved upon.Those poor 400 or so workers they have working on it hmmmm maybe they can hire more people too.

Hi All,
I really mean that as we are Expat community we can assist in the development of Libya by our input. Change comes by a little idea. After we list up our all concerns, we can organise to meet the leader Mr. Muamar Al Ghadhafi.

Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore

Infrastructure changes need to be made. Leisure facilities need to increase, prices for the more 'up market hotels' need to be lowered. At the Radisson in Malta you can get an upgraded room for a night for £89, here it is more like £200 per night, this does not encourage tourism. The driving and police 'attitude' to it HAVE to change, it is all very well accepting or even laughing at it, but I lost a friend to an RTA recently. The country has a long way to go, but you are right, we can all help in little ways.

Sandman6 wrote:

Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore

It's alright for you ya bam out in the sticks, I was kept up to 0400 with the locals having a strange yet noisy party - drum, pipes of some sort, singing (badly) and fireworks, I thought I was back in Aberdeen city centre on a Friday night

That's true Clansman.
I also add that there should be a Non smoking act in closed areas. I have seen people smoking in the airport, resurants, hotel.
Police should be more active to regulate things. Attitude and respect to people should be improved.
Development of traffic system.
Please list more, we want to finalise a list.

dear ibngabal,
i would like to continue that list of yours but i just don't know where to begin and end, it would be  such a loooong list. your initiative sparked some sarcastic remarks and i must admit that i really try not to join those cynics in their opinions( they are right and you know it).
i have a piece of advice for you: start a real list with what we, the expats, can do to help out. start with yourself and tell us what was/is your contribution so far.maybe the others will follow with ideas and initiatives. don't waste time with sterile lists, be practical. there's a lot that can be done, so let 's see what you can come up with.

Ima,
Constructive idea, thanks. I will think what I can come up with and list down.

Goodness...

When the list is done, do consider submitting it in Arabic - it would cut a few good years in waiting for a response - which can only be one of the five:

- a freaking shrug
- a long pause before having another cigarette or cup of tea
- visa cap/ban for your nationality
- blocking of this website
- some honest improvement

I lost my rose tinted glasses whilst driving through 3 major junctions with traffic lights going green on 3 out of 4 directions (i.e.  6 lanes jamming in the exit with you)...pretty soon after a man in blue uniform (white in summer) pulled me over and took LYD 50 for - God knows what reason...can't be for wearing a beanie...maybe for speaking only English unless its because...oh...geeesh...I actually drive safely!

Flasher wrote:

No need to write a list, don't you realise that he regularly pops in here to see how we are all doing.

Lets play "guess his user name". Now I'm sure its not Sandman.
Still, you never know.

...followed by his IP address and other nasty details : )
but seriously there is lots of room for improvement.
public transportation is non-exists and it is mostly in private citizens' hands, it is not safe nor efficient.

I must say that i laughed reading some of the posts here. Thank you all.

Now, nations are not saved by wealth, roads, the sophisticated strategic plans the big wigs pull out of their...heads, or other physical advances. Sure these are essential elements, but it is the human character that makes or breaks a people.

Learn from the world:

The US of A didn't become what it is overnight--it witnessed a regicide while fighting its own war against a bunch of A holes from a foggy island; lost countless many of its brilliant sons in a civil war; banked it self into a Great Depression compounded by a Dust Bowl followed immediately by WWII. Now all Americans have to do is pass on the legacy. (although Tyler Durden may disagree)

Modern Libya has no real hardship in its collective memory. It can only compensate for this through education. Then wait until the bad riders (citizens) die off and are replaced by better ones and then take the buss to right destination.

And about Muammer AlQadafi, I only wish those around him actually listen to and learn from the guy. If it weren't for him, Libya would have been a freaking Kandahar. I just love the man (stay out of this one sandman)

Squadron Leader (Rtd) Rawlings didn't do a half bad job. Castro? The Jury's still out there. But countless others throughout history haven't. Nuff said from me on this topic.

MoEl, wow, what to say.  I guess you may need to brush up on your Libyan history.  A few people would have to disagree with you.  Italian occupation, war with Chad and how many years with international sanctions would be considered hardships.

bluejay wrote:

Italian occupation, war with Chad and how many years with international sanctions would be considered hardships.

I don't know what happened, but non penetrated deep enough. Non lasted long enough nor was timed to induce a constructive cultural shift. Maybe it's their belief in predestiny; or a debilitating irrational pride in the conquests of their forefathers; or possibly just plain laziness and lack of ambition stemming from low standards or the safety of knowing that basic needs (defined as, and often limited to 50Kilo bags of flour and sugar, a box of corn oil cans, and a box of pasta) will always be provided by an extrinsic entity (government)

It's more than plain history.

Sandman6 wrote:

Squadron Leader (Rtd) Rawlings didn't do a half bad job. Castro? The Jury's still out there. But countless others throughout history haven't.

...many not lacking goodwill or desire to improve, but are short on resources, some of which are personal.

ibngabal wrote:

After we list up our all concerns, we can organise to meet the leader Mr. Muamar Al Ghadhafi.

Uh huh.  Because THAT's gonna happen!

Education!

I know many kids in Libya who dont take their education seriously nor am I sure what they are teaching in the schools but Hell some of the simplest things! Teach kids not to throw their garbage into the middle of the streets! One of my biggest pet peeves. Driving behind some guy one day and whammo! can of diet coke soon after some napkins, 3 cigarette packs, He was cleaning his car out onto the city roads. Its like come on! Sure it creates a job for someone to do and make some money but imagine a clean Libya? Its the mentality that needs some cleaning and this comes from many of my Libyan friends. But with time. It has started slowly. I think with the new developments this problem can be solved. The infrastructure of the country needs some serious thought which I believe is being done.

Some solid Education. And not just for the kids alone.

Worth a bump

MoEl wrote:

Worth a bump

more like a dump

MoEl wrote:

bluejay wrote:

Italian occupation, war with Chad and how many years with international sanctions would be considered hardships.

I don't know what happened, but non penetrated deep enough. Non lasted long enough nor was timed to induce a constructive cultural shift. Maybe it's their belief in predestiny; or a debilitating irrational pride in the conquests of their forefathers; or possibly just plain laziness and lack of ambition stemming from low standards or the safety of knowing that basic needs (defined as, and often limited to 50Kilo bags of flour and sugar, a box of corn oil cans, and a box of pasta) will always be provided by an extrinsic entity (government)

It's more than plain history.

What drivel.

Roads. Yum yum.

اللي ما يطق العنب يقول حامض




Edit: English translation needed just so mods dont get upset: this is the Libyans way of saying: he who can't reach the vine, would claim that its grapes are sour... or something like that

now rot in your grief, kingraos

MoEl wrote:

Edit: English translation needed just so mods dont get upset: this is the Libyans way of saying: he who can't reach the vine, would claim that its grapes are sour... or something like that

Good saying! Envy is a green eyed monster

ibngabal wrote:

I think as expats we also can put down things that we think will make Libya developed ad improved. I think we can play a role as we are expat community.
Though please list down things needs to be improved to develp Libya.
I list:
**look to Transportation development.

Ok Mr Ibngabal,

Thank you so much for your contributions so we can have our damaged country developed. Since you are an Expat from a sister country called Sudan. Dont you think its better idea that you make lists for your country first. I think they have a corner for Sudan. You need more develoment lists than Libya. So please start there.

Thank you.

Doctor X > no personal attacks / provocation or we'll have to intervene

Doctor X wrote:

ibngabal wrote:

I think as expats we also can put down things that we think will make Libya developed ad improved. I think we can play a role as we are expat community.
Though please list down things needs to be improved to develp Libya.
I list:
**look to Transportation development.

Ok Mr Ibngabal,

Thank you so much for your contributions so we can have our damaged country developed. Since you are an Expat from a sister country called Sudan. Dont you think its better idea that you make lists for your country first. I think they have a corner for Sudan. You need more develoment lists than Libya. So please start there.

Thank you.

Er this is a discussion on LIBYA and how to improve it not ANY other country, we all live here after all.

Dr X,

First of all, please get me right, my aim is the contribution in development. If you don't know the wrong/bad things you cannot improve yourself.In my oinion expat lives in a country would be one of the country's participants in development.

Secondly, I agree that Sudan do need very much and more for this list as well, but I am away from my country for about 11 years. When I go back inshALLAH, I would appreciate such forums to identify any problems in my country in order to rectify.

I came and worked in Libya for about 3 monthes. I really liked Libya and its kind people. Unfortunately, I moved again to the Gulf, but I would like to be back there again shoudl an opportunity came.

I hope the list will be acomplished and Libyan people can pursue its issues and find the ways for resolution.

Good luck.

Doctor X wrote:

Ok Mr Ibngabal,

Thank you so much for your contributions so we can have our damaged country developed. Since you are an Expat from a sister country called Sudan. Dont you think its better idea that you make lists for your country first. I think they have a corner for Sudan. You need more develoment lists than Libya. So please start there.

Thank you.

Exactly the kind of attitude that is holding us back. Unfortunately this kind of mentality is very prevalent across all sectors of Libyan society and is the main cause of the "delays" and "slow progress" of the Development Programme.

Not accepting advice from someone just because they originate from a less developed country is tantamount to Racism and in my view the hight of ignorance.

Libya needs and must take advantage of the experience of the vast number of expats currently working amongst us.

Btw Libyan returness get the same response when thet try to change archaic attitudes.

Julien wrote:

Doctor X > no personal attacks / provocation or we'll have to intervene

No Julien, I never do that. I have not attacked the gentleman. He is adviced us and I advised him back, thats all. By the way I can see someone below here is attacking me and acusing me of being racist, I could not see you saying anything.

OK Mr Ibnqabl, I apologise if that have annoyed you where it was not my intention to do so.

ExpatLibyan wrote:

Doctor X wrote:

Ok Mr Ibngabal,


Thank you.

Exactly the kind of attitude that is holding us back. Unfortunately this kind of mentality is very prevalent across all sectors of Libyan society and is the main cause of the "delays" and "slow progress" of the Development Programme.

Not accepting advice from someone just because they originate from a less developed country is tantamount to Racism and in my view the hight of ignorance.

Libya needs and must take advantage of the experience of the vast number of expats currently working amongst us.

Btw Libyan returness get the same response when thet try to change archaic attitudes.

Thank you! 

I have not looked down on the gentle man. I have not been racist. I do not slow the progress of the so called development if there is any. And what jumped in your mind made you anlyse things the way you like was not in my mind at firs place. I like Sudan and have many friends from there.

BTW, I do not have archaic attitudes.


I know that our country needs alot, headed with the priority of Education. we all need consultancy and new ideas either from Exapats (Not White Expats only) , Locals or even Libyan returness.

With my experience of this blog. I have seen many constructive ideas but also I have seen unpleasant comments were made about Libya and Libyans by expats. Awful comments about the system, the social life and customs. sometimes they are even harsh ones. Yes you may want us to get developed but some of you went to exteremes and violated the subject itself.

Thanks to those expats who really would love to see things get better in this country. And for those who think Libya is having a bad image I am telling them you are just making it uglier by your harsh and unpleasant comments.

Good luck with you jobs here and hope you having lovely stay in Libya.

Salam,

Doctor X wrote:

Thank you! 

I have not looked down on the gentle man. I have not been racist. I do not slow the progress of the so called development if there is any. And what jumped in your mind made you anlyse things the way you like was not in my mind at firs place. I like Sudan and have many friends from there.

BTW, I do not have archaic attitudes.


I know that our country needs alot, headed with the priority of Education. we all need consultancy and new ideas either from Exapats (Not White Expats only) , Locals or even Libyan returness.

With my experience of this blog. I have seen many constructive ideas but also I have seen unpleasant comments were made about Libya and Libyans by expats. Awful comments about the system, the social life and customs. sometimes they are even harsh ones. Yes you may want us to get developed but some of you went to exteremes and violated the subject itself.

Thanks to those expats who really would love to see things get better in this country. And for those who think Libya is having a bad image I am telling them you are just making it uglier by your harsh and unpleasant comments.

Good luck with you jobs here and hope you having lovely stay in Libya.

Salam,

...and thus a new genre of entertainment was invented: Gaffe-en-tainment!

Doctor X wrote:

ExpatLibyan wrote:

Doctor X wrote:

Ok Mr Ibngabal,


Thank you.

Exactly the kind of attitude that is holding us back. Unfortunately this kind of mentality is very prevalent across all sectors of Libyan society and is the main cause of the "delays" and "slow progress" of the Development Programme.

Not accepting advice from someone just because they originate from a less developed country is tantamount to Racism and in my view the hight of ignorance.

Libya needs and must take advantage of the experience of the vast number of expats currently working amongst us.

Btw Libyan returness get the same response when thet try to change archaic attitudes.

Thank you! 

I have not looked down on the gentle man. I have not been racist. I do not slow the progress of the so called development if there is any. And what jumped in your mind made you anlyse things the way you like was not in my mind at firs place. I like Sudan and have many friends from there.

BTW, I do not have archaic attitudes.


I know that our country needs alot, headed with the priority of Education. we all need consultancy and new ideas either from Exapats (Not White Expats only) , Locals or even Libyan returness.

With my experience of this blog. I have seen many constructive ideas but also I have seen unpleasant comments were made about Libya and Libyans by expats. Awful comments about the system, the social life and customs. sometimes they are even harsh ones. Yes you may want us to get developed but some of you went to exteremes and violated the subject itself.

Thanks to those expats who really would love to see things get better in this country. And for those who think Libya is having a bad image I am telling them you are just making it uglier by your harsh and unpleasant comments.

Good luck with you jobs here and hope you having lovely stay in Libya.

Salam,

Hi DocX, I think your absolutely right Libya or Libyans definitely do not need any sort of input from expats because it is afterall you guys that have made it till here and I believe in any country it is the nationals that can only make the difference no matter what other says.

For those who are trying to give input here about Libya's development requirements, please show some respect and do what you came to do here. I think many of the expats work itself is in somewhat way applying to the development of Libya.

1- liberate people mind from religion control
2-liberate women from men control and religion
3-kick Africans out (egypt+algeria and tunisians)
4-remove visa roles
5-put new education system and take good care of environment
6-make health system ,and national security number
7- educate people and make good transportation system to stop using cars and RTA
some ideas