Inform the courts of his theft and get a divorce certificate?

Beth52 wrote:

Salaam.  I'm wondering if you can help me.  I am an American who was working at King Faisal.  I married a Pakistani man in 2009.  We have since divorced. (I couldn't get him a VISA to come home with me).  I need divorce papers from the Saudi Court where I was married.  Neither my ex nor his family will communicate with me.....He also stole approx. $75,000 USD (my income, savings and inheritance.  I have a copy of my marriage certificate, his igama at the time we were married.  Is there any way that I can inform the courts of his theft of my money, and get a divorce certificate?   

Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Ramadan Kareem

Elizabeth

Ramadan Kareem Beth52,

I'm shocked. Wondering (as well) as to how could you let it go like that.

There are pretty easy legal ways to make him face the music and get an official divorce letter from the marriage court. The best bet here would be to go and talk to Qazi. Is it possible for you to come back on a new work visa? Why not?

I don't need a New York Visa.   So you're saying that I have to come back to Saudi Arabia and get the letter myself?  Who would sponsor me?  I don't think I want to make that trip.  The letter isn't totally necessary.  My local Imam read the emails from my ex and he said that if I wanted to get married again, he could testify that I was legally divorced.  Not sure how my ex is getting on with his life knowing that he stole from me.  We invested all my money in the Kurachi stock exchange.  Even when he sent me the divorce email he stated how much money he owed me and that he would go to Pak and transfer my money as soon as it was safe to travel to Pak. (He lives in KSA).  Last year I asked for my money and he said that he needed money for a ticket, exit-re entry visa and about 100SAR for expenses.  I sent the money via Western Union was notified that he received it.  I think my mistake was that I emailed his sister and let her know that I was asking for my money.  I never heard from either one of them again.  I was such a fool.  We were married for 2 years, had a good marriage too.  His family would visit us frequently. His mom and I would cook together.  I was totally taken in, trusted them all completely.  But if God wants me to have the money, then I will right?  I'm blessed with a good job, a home and now I'm near MY family again.  I'm trying to let go of the thought of my money but it's hard.  It was my retirement money too.  Now I will never be able to retire....but I guess things could be worse.  AND he will get his on the Day of Judgment right?  Anyway, thanks for listening, and thanks for your advise. 

Elizabeth

About the divorce, I agree with your understanding, You really don't need any letter.

The money he stole from you, don't you worry. You'll know one day that it didn't benefit him even a bit; except
causing special troubles to him from God. And again, don't worry God will open a way for you to recover the losses. Even you'll see him in hot water on the day of Judgement.

The thing that's bothering me is: Leaving everything to God before a fight back for your rights? I don't know what to call it; total pessimism or optimism? You know much better of course. I amn't judging; just trying to muster up your courage.

God bless you.

It is sad that men would take the right of another. I believe in Islam we do not turn the other cheek. One should claim what is rightfully theirs. Im not sure if legal action could be taken place via the Saudi Embassy, it's worth making this guys life hell in Saudi if he is truly guilty. And God knows best

Hello Elizabeth.

Welcome to Expat.com!

A new thread has been created from your message on the Riyadh forum for more interaction.

Thank you,
Aurélie

Beth52 wrote:

Salaam.  I'm wondering if you can help me.  I am an American who was working at King Faisal.  I married a Pakistani man in 2009.  We have since divorced. (I couldn't get him a VISA to come home with me).  I need divorce papers from the Saudi Court where I was married.  Neither my ex nor his family will communicate with me.....He also stole approx. $75,000 USD (my income, savings and inheritance.  I have a copy of my marriage certificate, his igama at the time we were married.  Is there any way that I can inform the courts of his theft of my money, and get a divorce certificate?   

Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Ramadan Kareem

Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth,

To call it a legal divorce you would have gone to a court to certify the marriage is terminated, right?

If you havent registered your divorce with a court earlier you will have to do it now.

Your best shot will be to hire a lawyer in KSA and get him to file the divorce papers for you.

If you had the divorce registered earlier you could hire a solicitor in KSA to help you get the divorce certificate.

As per the theft case, if you were here in KSA you could have expected a decent outcome if you were to take your ex to court. But for now I doubt if there will be a court action as you are not in the country.

However you must keep the all the evidence with you in-case Saudi court asks you the reason for the divorce.

Hope things settle soon for you.

A women's right as per Islam and Sharia law is very clear and outlined in detail , but if you ask is this what is practiced in KSA,then the answer is no. The law is interpreted differently.

In your case there are some areas that needed clarity like :
- Did you do a marriage contract or only Nikah in KSA under proper authority, a contract would have served you and protected you better
- Was your marriage registered with the American or Pakistani embassy - since you could claim legal law from both countries law regarding divorce
- As TLL said you need to come to KSA in order to move anything, if not you will end up paying a lot to a lawyer from US to do a case against a man in KSA which I don't think will be helpful if the marriage contract is written under KSA laws.
- You leaving the country (KSA) was it on exit or re entry and did you get a divorce from Saudi court or law before you left ? - If you haven't legally still you are his wife and then a runaway as well and legal protection for women in this case - court favors husbands if he says you left him.

There are lot of areas that needs further communication / clarification and as far as I read from your posts chances are very slim, don't want to be pessimist here but this is the reality.

I hope you make life of that man a living hell in Saudi Arabia. I will be very happy if that SOB goes to jail and trust me, jails in Saudi Arabia are no joke.

Hello,

It's not that Im giving up.  Just not sure how to START.  I have contacted the man who was my witness at my wedding.  I told him what happened and asked if he could contact my ex.  All he said was "Im sorry this happened".   I guess he doesn't want to get involved.  I don't know that exact address of the Saudi Court to send a letter.  I even contacted the Pakistan embassy here in the US and they are of no help.  Other then flying to Saudi, taking a taxi to his family home(if they are still there) and confronting him (if he even is in Saudi).  I do have the igama number that he had when we were married, do the numbers change when they get re-newed? I remember being able to check my VISA status thru the Ministry of Internal Affairs? I cant remember which ministry has a web page and you can check to see if your VISA is ready.  Maybe I try to contact one of the ministry's?  It's so strange how he sent me a detailed item by item list of what he owes me and then disappears.  I really didn't expect this to happen.  Live and learn.  Thanks

Thanks for you support.  See the post I left with legend.  I will try the ministries after Ramadan.  Thank God I'm not destitute.  I have a good job and a home to live in, but that money was for my retirement and I wanted to promote some Islamic books/pamphlets for children here in the US.  Now its gone.  During our marriage he often spoke how important trust was.  He would say "people always say "I love you", hardly anyone says "I trust you"  That was my mistake I guess.  I don't think that I will ever trust a man again.  I hate to say that but its going to be really hard. 

Beth

Thanks for your reply.  I have kept all the evidence.  Western Union receipts, emails.  Rent receipts.  Thank God, I have a good job and home here in the US.  I will try to contact the ministries after Ramadan. 


Beth

Iqama numbers don't change on renewals, if you have the mrg certificate copy, they are all written in there. If you like, PM me his iqama number and I'll be able to tell you his name and also if he's still here in KSA.

As a mate said above, try visiting the Saudi Embassy and meet an official there. I'm sure anything else e.g., letters will be lost in the shuffle. I have the same feel about touching base with Ministries either.

The e-mail he sent with detailed list of items will work great.

I think it is best to go to the ministry of interior's office in the DC embassy.

Hello
Sorry to know what happened to you
Are you register the marriage contract in court
Do your former spouse still  works in Saudi Arabia

If you had registered the marriage contract and still your former spouse In Saudi Arabia
You can go to the Saudi Embassy in the United States and request case against him in Saudi Arabia
You can also communicate with any lawyer working in Saudi Arabia and make authorization  to pleading Instead you in Saudi courts
by Using Legal Affairs at the embassy and send it to the lawyer

hope i helped you

I have a better idea for get the letter forget the divorce how about you tell me where he is and i go smash the runts kneecaps ???

choudhers wrote:

I have a better idea for get the letter forget the divorce how about you tell me where he is and i go smash the runts kneecaps ???

you can't do that because this is a country that has laws, and they are enforced. If you do something like this you yourself will be the only one going to jail over this problem

Beth52,

I am sorry to hear that whatever happened to you. It must be difficult for you to even sleep at night, knowing the fact that all your savings taken away by the man whom u trusted the most. But rest assured this gentleman will pay the price of all this on the judgement day.

You go through the legal process mentioned above & in case if you need any additional help, we are here in Riyadh & can help you out in that case.

Rgds
Mohsin

Here's a thought.

Do you have your marriage certificate or a copy ?

Do you by any chance have a copy of his passport / Iqama ?

you can use the two to launch a case through the ministry.

Emails can be used in saudi courts as evidence.

It shouldn't be difficult after that.

best regards

Salaam, and a very good morning.

We were married in the Saudi courts with a contract.  I left KSA in Dec 2010 to help take care of my sick mother.  We had been working with the American Embassy in Riyadh for almost a year trying to get my husband a VISA so that he could move to the US with me.  Per THEIR advise, I went home to the US and began trying to get his VISA from here.  In July of 2011 he sent me a divorce email.  In his email he stated in detail how much money he owed me (rent, food, electric bill, even the cost of his cigarettes for the time we lived together in KSA).  In this email he stated that he would transfer my money as soon as it was more stable in Pakistan for him to travel there and close out our stock market account.  At the time the stock market was weak so I told him to wait awhile and that I would contact him when I wanted the money transferred. I was working with a good wage, living with my mother and I didn't need my invested money.  In Feb of 2012 I emailed him requesting my money.  He replied saying that he needed money for ticket, exit-re entry out of Saudi and about 100SAR for expenses.  I sent him 2000SAR and received verification from Western Unon that he picked it up.  Then I never heard from him or his family again. Neither he nor his family (who treated me very very well) will reply or answer my calls.  I know that God will take care of me and if He wants me to have the money, I will.  But it was all my retirement money, and my inheritance.  Now, financially I have to start all over again.  I'm frustrated that I trusted him. 

I do have copies of his passport, his igama.  Just wasn't sure where to get started with all of this.

Thanks for your help.

Beth

Is he still in Saudi Arabia

I think he is.  I have someone from this group tracking his igama and passport numbers for me.  Short story is, he sent me a detailed divorce email when I came back to the USA to care for my mother.  He didn't fully cooperate with the US embassy in Riyadh so there were delays obtaining his VISA to come back here with me.  July 2011 he sent me the divorce email detailing how much he owed me for expenses throughout our marriage and money that I invested in the Karachi stock exchange.  He stated that he would go to Pak and close out our account when Pak was more stable.  The stock market was in a slump in July 2011 and since I was working (I am a nurse) I told him to wait for a while until the market was better.  I wasn't looking for profit just my investment returned.  I even offered him $2000 USD for managing my account.  He replied that he needed money for plane ticket to pak, exit-re entry visa back to KSA and about 100SAR for 1 weeks expenses in Lahore.  I sent him 2000 SAR via Western union in April 2012 and I received confirmation that he received the money.  I emailed his sister to inform her of his plans to go to Pak and close out my account and then I never heard from him or his family again.  No replies to numerous emails or phone calls.  I didn't know where to start in tracking him down.  This was my retirement money and inheritance from my father.  I know that as a muslim I shouldn't be worrying about this money, but I'm really frustrated.  Thanks for your support.  I have had many replies and I appreciate all of them.

Beth

Unfortunately, in the justice system
E-mail messages are not proof and condemnation
You can apply for the Saudi Embassy complaint him
If he still in Saudi Arabia

tifd wrote:

Unfortunately, in the justice system
E-mail messages are not proof and condemnation
You can apply for the Saudi Embassy complaint him
If he still in Saudi Arabia

Actually electronic transmittal can be used as proof in court.

However I see there other problems with the story here; she will need a very very good lawyer to prove the case as it is.

Thanks for you reply,

If what you are saying about emails is true than am I still legally married to him?  He did not say the words to me over the phone nor in person.  As I am new to Islam I took the printed emails to my local Imam and said that I was divorced.  The Imam also said that if I chose to remarry someday he could provide a letter stating that I was legally allowed to marr

I received that divorce email in July 2011 and then in Oct 2011 he sent me another email stating that he did go to the courts to obtain a divorce certificate and the courts refused.  It was the same judge who married us and he said that he remembered our marriage and the judge told him to work on resolving our marriage.  So my ex TOLD me all the things I had to do to convince the US government that he was worthy of a VISA.  I replied "Did you tell the Judge that you already divorced me?"  Will you get your requested transcripts from the University of Pakistan?  (That is what the embassy was waiting for)?  He replied back.  "forget it".   I provided letters from my mothers oncologist, found him a job here, discussed this issue with my congressman and I even wrote to the First Lady Michelle Obama and I did receive a reply from the US State Department that the US embassy in Riyadh has the final word since that is where we began the process.  All the embassy wanted was his transcripts and he kept refusing.  I'm wondering if he even did go to college....

You're not the first person I've heard of who got duped into marrying a guy who only wanted a visa/citizenship. It's usually fairly easy to spot them--they 'love' you much too ardently and much too quickly.

BEWARE. 

It seems that western women are easy marks for sweet words (and I don't mean you, in particular, Beth, since I've known of several instances where this has happened).

Alliecat wrote:

You're not the first person I've heard of who got duped into marrying a guy who only wanted a visa/citizenship. It's usually fairly easy to spot them--they 'love' you much too ardently and much too quickly.

BEWARE. 

It seems that western women are easy marks for sweet words (and I don't mean you, in particular, Beth, since I've known of several instances where this has happened).

I agree with you allie....

Go back to the topic, try to communicate with the saudi embassy in the US asking them if you can file a complaint to your ex husband and show to them all evidence you have....and one more thing...i hope that your ex husband is not a member of this blog....i pray that God will help you to solve this problem of yours!

I HOPE he is a member.  The last thing I planned on happening to me when I went to Saudi to work was to married.  But sometimes things just happen.  Actually he wasn't open with all the "I love you's"  His catch phrase was "It's easy to say I love you, it's harder to say I TRUST you".  I even fell for his family.  I thought that they really cared for me.  When he went to Pak to open our account his mother and brother would call me everyday to ensure that I was OK.  They would pick me up and take me to dinner, shopping, etc.  His father was very gentle and kind.  He said that he liked me because I smiled a lot.  I really thought that they cared.  They always asked about my son and my mother.  I pictured them eventually coming here to live with us.  But sometimes things just happen.  What's funny is that my ex was (seemed to be) a good muslim.  We would have great discussions about our faith.  His mother and sister would talk with me about our faith.  I just thank God that I can take care of myself (with His help of course).  Judgment Day will settle all disputes, right? Once again..  Thanks everyone for your support.  It's making this Ramadan much better than last years. 

Beth