Women in Riyadh

Asalam Alaykum,

Please email me I am an American in Riyadh for over a year now and will answer all your questions..

Hi,

I've been living here in Riyadh with my wife and 2 children for about 3 months now and hopefully can give you some tips;

1. Check before you come out what your status is. Normally the process will be that your husband will have to come out first and get his Iqama (residency permit) he will then apply for your visa to join him in Saudi  and subsequently your Iqamas

2. Get on to a decent compound! This is essential for socializing and keeping one's sanity. http://riyadhciti.com/

3. Women pretty much have to wear an Abaya when out and about anywhere. The exeption to this seems to be at the airport and in residency compounds. The trick seems to be to always have one with you and (especially if you have blond hair) have a scarf so that you can cover your head if necessary. For Westerners it is not normally necessary to cover your head in public.

4. Be cautious about shipping stuff out here. If you are sending stuff by sea container then take out any potentially dodgy items e.g. alcohol, pork, porn etc. If they search the container and find anything slightly offensive then it can be a nightmare to get your possesions back. When ordering stuff I get everything sent to my work address.

5. Register with your embassy when you arrive, as well as keeping you safe in the event of anything happening, getting to know the embassy staff is a good way of socializing.

6. I think that the official line is that women when out and about should be escorted by a male relative however I constantly see women wondering and shopping without men in tow.

7. I would say that life is pretty good here and if you make the effort in your first few weeks of being here then you will never be bored.

Hope it helps

Hi Tina

Welcome to Riyadh! I've only been living here for three weeks, but so far, no regrets at all.
You will find you way around quit quickly once you get here, but I can offer you some advice based on my limited experience, and on stories I've heard from others.

First of all I fully agree with Sandman. Make sure you know how all the admin is working (Iqama etc). Next to that, make sure you have a nice compound. Check things like dress code within compound, population (go for a compound with mostly western people), rules regarding visitors, etc. You can find a lot of info on the web regarding which compounds are supposed to be best.

I always were my abaya, expect when in the compound. I have a scarf with me, but never cover my head. Normally, non-moslim women don't have to cover up. However, if somebody would tell you to cover your head, just put the scarf on, and don't make a fuss about it. You will find in the big modern shopping malls it shouldn't be an issue, but be prepared to be more flexible in more traditional areas or in the souks. I have blond hair myself but so far this never gave me any trouble.

When it comes to travelling alone, this seems to be okay, as long as you are not travelling with other man. You are not allowed to be in a car with other man when your husband is not with you. Exception is made for taxi drivers. However, I've heard bad things about taxis as well, so ask around and get the phone number of one or two drivers who you know you can trust, and always use them. Oh, women should not be driven a car. I've heard rules have changed recently, not sure if it is true, but would certainly advice you not to try it.
0f course, as you probably already know, restaurants etc have sections for (single) men, and family sections. Make sure always to use the family section.
I also got the advice never to go into an elevator when there are only men in it.
And if something happens and you don't feel safe, just go into a shop or a restaurant or something. Avoid discussion if possible.
Also, many malls have family-only policy at certain times a day.

What you will find is that Saudi love kids, so if you are travelling with your children, everybody will be very nice to you and most likely Saoudi women will even come over to have a little chat (even though their English is most often very limited).

Regarding the shipping, our stuff has not arrived yet so hard to say. But they are very concerned about alcohol, porc and porn, like said before. Be careful because a lot is considered as porn. Eg a women magezine with bikini collection, ... So even items that we consider very innocent are seen as provocative. So make sure you leave them on the plane if you have them with you.

Last thing I can think of for now is the rules about prayer time. Five times a day everything shuts down during prayer time, so this is something you have to keep in mind when making your planning.

In general, I find life here is quite easy and relax, and I'm very much enjoying it.

Good luck and maybe we'll meet in Riyadh :-)

Hi Tina

Welcome to Saudi.

I have been working in the kingdom now for the last 4 years and am due to return in a few weeks.

Riyadh is an interesting place, I am single and was living in the Kingdom and as long as you follow the rules, it will be ok.

The Abaya has to be worn at all time (of course excluding your own home and if you are in a working environment that is all women) but it is the law!!! Do not break this anyone tells you!!

I am British and I didn't cover my hair or head at all and you will find that this is acceptable, but of course  not to the religious police 'matawa' and if caught without your head covered they just shout in Arabic until you put in on, so always have it with you just in case. Some people never come across the religious police ever, but you will know who they are when you see them

The will be wearing a thobe, and the tradition head scarf, but with no black rings on top and they also have a throw over their thobe (traditional white male outfit) which is normally chiffon and brown.

But don't worry too much about them

The malls in Riyadh are nice, Sahara mall, Granada mall, and Riyadh gallery which are my favourite!!! It just has bigger stores. There are many more.

If you need any more information please email me and I will be happy to share.

Enjoy it; it will be life changing, but definitely an experience of a lifetime.

Hi,my name is Max (Maxine), I just arrived in Riyadh from the UK, this week. My profile provides some background. My first impressions are very good and I am looking forward to my Riyadh experiences. I would like to meet any women here. I have no children here as my daughter is grown. This will be the first time ever that I find myself looking for things to do as I have always had a busy career. So, would welcome some contact from other women in Riyadh and anyone on the EID Villas Compound also. I hope to hear from you soon, thanks, Max

Welcome to Riyadh

there are many things here for you to do

There are several events, As you can understand I do not wish to say on this site!!

are you teaching or nursing or something else (please email me if you do not wish to post it)

I am a brit myself and there are many of us out here.
Make sure you register with the british embassy so they know you are in the Kingdom.

For those already here, I hear that Janadriya (The festival of everything Saudi)is a must. I think that I'm going to go.

you should go I went last year and it was interesting!!!!

Thank you all so much for the feedback.  Yes, my husband will be ariving first in april and the rest of the family after our visas are ready.  As far as the compound goes, we don't know much.  It is a new build and will be ready sometime in june.  It is actually being built by my husband's (western) company.  All in all we are quite looking forward to the move.  As life is built upon our experiences, why stay at home?  We'll come with our smiles and open minds...hope to see yours soon!

OK, just a clarification...
I can
(1) go outside of the compound by myself and go shopping etc
(2) go outside of the compound with my husband and go shopping etc
(3) go outside of the compound with other women and go shopping etc
I can not:
go outside of the compound with a man other than my husband....

Yes that is pretty much it.

The only man you should ever be with in public is your husband and of course if you have a driver (but he would be under your husband's iqama or his company iqama so that is valid) So if you got stopped by anyone then the paper work would be valid.

You can also use a taxi alone, I done it myself many times, but I also speak Arabic, yet I would not recommend it unless need be, but this is ok and as I have one particular taxi I use; as do my other friends so we all know he is save.

With regards to compounds they are great... most people tend to be expats... brits, Americans, Europeans and so forth and everyone I have been in I am not required to wear my abaya and can walk around very freely.

If you have any other questions or concerns please ask, as I myself wish I had someone to ask when I first arrived in Saudi several years ago now. It was a difficult learn journey for me.

Talk soon

a woman can also go out with her son, brother or any other male member who is considered her Mahram. A Mahram is a male family member who is considered a Guardian, officially, and is also not someone who is marriageable to you. e only exception is your husband.

Is this "Mahram" thing something that is official or cultural?  I mean do others know who my Mahram are by cultural standards or does a person have to officially be approved or appointed as Mihram?  When is a male son of age to be considered Mahram...from birth?

This is all so fascinating, what an experience!

hey tina, mahram is from islamic law, which the kingdom follows' so it is Official. a son is a mahram since his birth.

its kinda huge explanation but in short, a male whom a woman cannot marry anytime in her lifetime is a mahram. ie., father, brother, son, etc.

I guess when I wrote "official" I was thinking more paperwork, red tape, applications, processing, permissions, etc etc.  Maybe not the most appropriate word to use.  But, if I understand correctly, a Mahram is automatic it isn't something that one receives after some sort of long drawn out application process. I have a son, so in KSA he'll automatically be my Mahram...?? Right??

I also have some question on this, would be great if somebody could help. What about family-in-law? Can I walk around with my brother-in-law? What about when his wife is with us as well? After all, this is not blood-family but family through my husband.
If my husband is with me, I assume there can be other men around?

Thanks for clarifying!

Yes, those are good questions...which have brought some others to mind!
Are there any times of year that westerners disappear from Riyadh or Saudi?
Here in Sweden for example, everything pretty much shuts down during the summer (from my US perspective)..what does the summer look like in Riyadh?  Ramadan?  Christmas? Other times?

hello to everybody im new here so please chat with me. thank you all..

well ladies...too many questions huh?? actually nice to clear all this stuff before gettin into problems...i too am new here so i might not be the correct one to answer...
let me see wat all i know:
yup tina, he is ur mahram automatically. i dont know how to prove a mother her grown up son here. (sounds idiotic)
as long as ur bro in law's wife is there, no problem at all...if u are goin alone with him, there might be but rarely. yup no matter how many guys u r with, one of them SHUD be your husband and that too on paper!
i dont think westerners disappear from here at all unless and until a threat...summer is around the corner so u can experience it. last summer, my cars temperature gauge recorded a temperature of 54 degrees centigrade! so just imagine. Ramadan is good here. shops are closed for the whole day especially the restaurants. they are open after sunset and are open till late nights. Christmas-nope!
and cyrlle...wat do u wanna chat abt...just shoot!

Shahab, thanks for your reply...I was more wondering if at these times, Summer, Ramadan, Christmas, or other times, if people leave Saudi for other places.

And, am I understanding correctly, a woman can be with a number of men in public as long as one of them is her husband?  I thought that a woman, even with her husband could not be in the company of a single man...or?

Hi

What happens in Saudi is most expats coordinate their holdays to coincide with school holidays, hence they do go out of the country at Easter & Christmas. (Easter & Xmas are not celebrated in KSA therefore no official holidays)

Most people do have there remaining holidays in the Summer months July /August.

Official holidays happen twice in the year -

1. in the last few days of Ramdan and three to seven days after Ramadan for the Eid (celebration) holiday. Hence lots of people do get the opportunity to get away from Saudi.(if you work for a Govt agency you get just over two weeks off)

2. in the days of Hajj and you again get a similar days off as above. Again lots of people do get away from saudi

Hope this helps

Thanks again, to everybody.  I appreciate it!

Tinaolsson,

Another point worth considering RE Ramadan is that for your hubby it might make daily life rather difficult.

Ramadan falls particularly early this year (11 August) and if you're not used to fasting in 50+celcius then you might want to time a well earned break around this time.

A male adult (pass puberty) is considered a Mahram and he can be your Husband, father, Son or blood brother.

If you are in the company of males and females and your Mahram is with you there should be no issues anywhere in Riyadh in public places.

Summer is the peak travel time for most expats on account of the school system holidays where everyone leaves for home or holidays. Thats usually End June - September.