The unofficial web page of the greater Cuenca expat community

In response to Cuenca HighlifeŽs latest article I asked the following question:

Why arenŽt you following the basic journalistic principle of attribution when writing your articles?

Attribution simply means telling your readers where the information in your story comes from, as well as who is being quoted.

http://journalism.about.com/od/writing/ … bution.htm

The editor identifies himself professionally as a journalist, so I think it is a fair question.

Here is the reply I received.

We generally do but it slips past in some cases, particularly during translation. This is a voluntary project and the folks involved do their best. Thanks for the comment.

Generally, they do NOT. I looked at the 5 most recent articles and none of them cite the source for the article. It seems to me the additional effort in typing or linking back to the source article is miniscule.

It appears that reading Cuenca Highlife is a lot like reading IL, amusing at first, but then just a waste of time reading some sales pitch.  I Don't really expect people to give me their source of misinformation.

Based on the tone in his email, my guess is he realizes he is wrong and will start providing the sources tomorrow.  If not, I will begin emailing the editors of the newspapers about the outrageous conduct of that website.

It is mostly a game for me, but if the mercantilist pundit class in Cuenca can use their platform to disapprove of us, turn around is fair play.

I understand your take on this, Nards, but aren't you concerned about the news about Corpus Christi starting tomorrow?  Hundreds of years of tradition shot to hell by an over zealous fireman!!  How can you enjoy the religious experience of candy and pastries sans fireworks?  Will the locals band together to have their own unofficial fireworks?  Will the police intercede and uphold the ban? (Not holding my breath on that one)  Please let us know what happens.

In my blog, most of my articles are based on things I read elsewhere -- I always link to the original article. That's pretty basic, I would think.

There are two reasons for it:
1) To prove I'm not making things up (sort of like in doing a paper in school -- you have to cite your sources);
2) Give them credit (and, if somebody clicks the link, give them some traffic).

I first read about those castles a couple years ago -- I was looking forward to seeing them.

Bob

Are you saying that the fire works towers are not going to be allowed this year? I planned my return around the festival of Corpus Christie. I absolutely freaked at how cool the entire night time was, consumed with the floating lanterns and the fireworks towers. I marveled at how close some stood to the towers. I heard of the fire at the monastery right after I left last year, and that they had proposed a ban on future fireworks at Parque Calderon, but I thought I'd heard it was reversed? It was actually a floating lantern that caused the fire, not the fireworks themselves. But, it is an awesome sight to see all those lanterns going up, and into the mountains. I'd hate to see either of them banned. My understanding was that this had been going on for centuries, it will be interesting to see if the ban is enforced.

As far as I know only the floating lanters are not allowed.

Will see what happen.

And Zen hope we meet once you're here.

Vinny

Vinny,
I just read the article regarding the fireworks. Bummer! I have a suspicion though that they will go on as planned. Might not see the floating lanterns. I can remember last year as I watched them go up into the hills, and all the trees, if they ever had any issues.
I certainly look forward to hooking up. Look for a confused old gringo in Parque Calderon.... that'll be me.
Really, once I get my phone re activated and the number, I'll pm it to you.
Take Care,
Neil

Muchtech,

You didnŽt tell us about the International Living's 8th Annual Ultimate Event, held at the Playa del Carmen, Mexico.

According to that international living link, I can buy a nice condo for $43,000 somewhere.  They must not be talking about Ecuador, because I have looked, and there are no nice condos for that price.

By the way, I learned of the event from a one time contributor of the Expat.com, who is now in their employ.

Guilty as charged.  Don't really care about $43,000 condos or anything else they are selling or any of their salesmen.  Got a postcard saying they were going to automatically re-up my subscription, so I called and informed them otherwise.  Two more months and I am finished.  Of course I will keep getting their emails so I can be alerted to coming global economic catastrophies and take living advise from people who used to live in Vegas for $8,000/month and are working for a rag that still claims two can live well on less than $900/month in Ecuador.  Should it no longer be amusing, I will put them straight to junk.

Well Mugtech, I am sure International Living is pleased they got at least a one year subscription out of your hide, even if they werenŽt able to completely reel you in, by getting you to attend one of their fancy conferences.

Nonetheless, I am sure IL got a boost in their subscriber base as a result of that ABC news segment on Americans retiring abroad.  Maybe IL should pay Said a bonus, or maybe his recent trip to Mexico was that bonus.

Since I see Cuenca Highlife did not credit the newspapers in the two most recent articles, I decided to fire a new lobby this morning:

You generally do NOT credit the newspapers that are the basis for your articles.  And the fact volunteers may be doing the translations is not a reasonable excuse for exercising what is at the minimum a basic courtesy and a demonstration of respect for other peopleŽs work. Furthermore, I see publicidad on CuencaHighlife for Cuenca Real Estate, which is a for-profit company whose ownership has ties to the website. While the volunteers may view their work as "community service", it doesnŽt mean the owner of the website doesnŽt view it differently.

In any case it really isnŽt my business whether or not you are properly crediting the Ecuadorian newspapers for their work. However, since many a pundit in this town uses their platform to question or lecture the expat community about their personal conduct and/or cultural sensitivity, I think I am doing my part as a concerned member of the Cuenca expat community  to question yours.

regards

Nards Barley wrote:

Well Mugtech, I am sure International Living is pleased they got at least a one year subscription out of your hide, even if they werenŽt able to completely reel you in, by getting you to attend one of their fancy conferences.

Nonetheless, I am sure IL got a boost in their subscriber base as a result of that ABC news segment on Americans retiring abroad.  Maybe IL should pay Said a bonus, or maybe his recent trip to Mexico was that bonus.

Lucky for him he did not have to ride on a bus in Mexico, could be in jail right now. BTW now is the time to buy real estate in Mexico, but these prices will not last (IL e-postcard last week)!!  Be patriotic, throw yourself into the war on drugs.

I noticed that IL has a true sense of equality about it, giving the same kind of half truths and misleading info about places other than Ecuador.  Their info on the Philippines is laughable.

Cuenca Highlife sets standards for others, not themselves.  "Ignore that man behind the curtain"  Wizard of Oz
So they will continue to be useless to people actually there with other sources of info.  I would regret and resent doing volunteer work for real estate tycoons, but evidently it fills some kind of need for some.

Undoubtedly the "volunteers" think they are working for a non`profit organization.

mugtech wrote:

I would regret and resent doing volunteer work for real estate tycoons, but evidently it fills some kind of need for some.

It seems that some people like to play at being reporters -- maybe they see themselves in The Front Page or as a tough, street-wise reporter in a late-40s film noir -- wearing a trenchcoat while they interview a source so they can get a great 'scoop'.

We all have our fantasies.

Bob

Just got my June preview of IL, and the last word "Good Expat, Bad Expat: Which Will You Be?" was written by guess who.  Said person said that besides other goods and services taken for granted in the USA, they've had to contend with spotty internet service, occasional lack of water or electricity, and more noise than they could have imagined.(some have less imagination than others)  Of course such inconveniences are part of the tradeoff for living abroad, like having monthly COL go from $8,000 to $1,600.

Last month IL ran a story about smuggling cheap booze into a certain Asian country, and this month they are giving Americans advise on how to illegally travel to Cuba.  Semi-detached homes available in SW Ireland, some work may be required, for 20,000 Euros.  Gonna miss this stuff.

mugtech wrote:

Just got my June preview of IL, and the last word "Good Expat, Bad Expat: Which Will You Be?" was written by guess who.

Hmmmm.  No idea.

There is a radio show called Ecuador at your service that was milking that "hot topic" this week:

05/27/2013 Show Topic: UGLY AMERICANS … Are You One of Them?

05/27/2013 Show Description:  Gary Phillips and Linda McFarlin are guests today talking about the controversial and the “hot topic” issue of Ugly Americans in Ecuador. Co-Owners of pro-ecuador.com, a website and blog spot about Ecuador, the two have created the Ugly American Self-Test and also offer ideas for being responsible global citizens.

For the record, if the mercantilist pundit class in this town is the one judging whether somebody is an Ugly American, then let me be the first to volunteer to wear that title proudly.

Some people feel the need to proclaim themselves superior to others.

One can only speculate as to what might be lacking in their lives that causes such a need.

Bob

The Ecuador at your service radio show was 52 minutes of back patting, IL like ads and very little info.  They emphasized that Ecuador is a negotiation-oriented society, so if you want to pay what locals pay then you must play the game.  The whole idea is to get as much money as possible for any goods or services you are selling, and as the buyer to pay as little as possible.  The question then becomes, why would anyone tip anyone for anything?  If the tip is not on the restaurant bill, why leave a tip?  Aren't you being a good Ecuadorian by never paying anything unless required?  At the same time potential gringos are told to leave their capitalistic ways behind when they come to Ecuador.  They are told this by gringos already in Ecuador making money telling others not to.  Just curious

I'm not quite sure what your beef is. There are three or four attributions in the article (attributions are the he-said, she-saids in a news article referring to comments and quotes), the most important being the fire chief.

If you're talking about credit, this isn't needed in the local articles since they translate and re-write these, usually from multiple sources, as far as I can tell. The information they provide is usually public record, which is not copyright-able in any country. I have seen them credit articles that they copy verbatim.

You may be confusing Cuenca High Life with Cuenca New Digest, which I haven't read recently. It appeared to me that CND ran web articles from local papers through Google Translate, then cleaned them up before posting. In the couple of cases I've checked Cuenca High Life articles against local articles, they are very different, often containing different sources and information.

I don't always agree with what I read on High Life but, being a retired journalist myself, I appreciate the effort and the fact they know how to read and write. If you check web traffic, they're getting about 1,000 readers a day, which isn't bad for an expat site in the hinterlands of Ecuador.

Mugtech,

Thanks for listening, so we donŽt have to.  You know, if the lapse of your subscription to International Living creates a void for you, maybe you can fill it by listening to that radio show and recapping it for us each week. Just a thought.

Dan Mitchell wrote:

I'm not quite sure what your beef is.

Dan, I will take that as a challenge to prove you wrong, in due time.

Nards, I don't mean to pose a challenge, although I did learn a thing or two in 22 years as a journalist and five as a journalism professor. My bottom line is that there are plenty of worthy targets in the expat universe --International Living, to name one-- and I don't see High Life on that list.

Dan,

I would like your opinion on the proper use of digital photos.

First, let us see what wikihow says on the subject:

The use of a photograph in a publication, a website, or any work you create should always be cited to protect the photographer's ownership of the image and allow your readers to access the image for further reference.

Here is the photo used in this particular article on Cuenca Highlife:



Here is the photo from El Comercio:



Now, from what I can tell, that photo was copied and uploaded to Cuenca HighlifeŽs servers. I see no credit or mention of where that photo originated from.

Can you defend that Dan?

Anytime you copy and paste text from El CommercioŽs website the following warning is appended to the text:

Este contenido ha sido publicado originalmente por Diario EL COMERCIO en la siguiente dirección: http://www.elcomercio.com/pais/extranje … 7408.html. Si está pensando en hacer uso del mismo, por favor, cite la fuente y haga un enlace hacia la nota original de donde usted ha tomado este contenido. ElComercio.com

Translation:
This content has ben orignially published by the newspaper El Comercio at the following web address: http://www.elcomercio.com/pais/extranje … 7408.html. If you are thinking of using this content, please cite the source and make a link to the page where you have taken this content.

Does anyone think that Cuenca Higlife has respected that request in the article above? It is a simple courtesy.

If were not for the fact that I know this was a translation, is there any indication to the readers of that article that this was translation of an article rather than original reporting? No!

Now let us review what the definition of plagarism is according to Wikipedia:

Plagiarism is the "wrongful appropriation" and "purloining and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions," and the representation of them as one's own original work.

As I said before, the reader has no indication that this is not reporting. This stinks of plagarism to me.

Now let us review the journalism professorŽs argument again:

If you're talking about credit, this isn't needed in the local articles since they translate and re-write these, usually from multiple sources, as far as I can tell. The information they provide is usually public record, which is not copyright-able in any country. I have seen them credit articles that they copy verbatim.

In the coming days, I intend to to dispprove the professorŽs argument based on closer a dissection of the tranlation done by Cuenca Highlife of the article in the prior comment.

Dan Mitchell wrote:

Nards, I don't mean to pose a challenge, although I did learn a thing or two in 22 years as a journalist and five as a journalism professor. My bottom line is that there are plenty of worthy targets in the expat universe --International Living, to name one-- and I don't see High Life on that list.

Does not matter whether or not you meant to pose a challenge to Nards, for being a communications expert you know that the message is in the receiver.  Does not matter what you intended, what matters is what he heard. And I heard the same.  Their journalistic morality aside, they are just as guilty as IL of having an agenda and writing accordingly, no matter what journalism standards they do or do not follow.  Looks like the same picture to me, Dan.  What do you see?

mugtech wrote:

Their journalistic morality aside, they are just as guilty as IL of having an agenda and writing accordingly, no matter what journalism standards they do or do not follow.

Just as a side note, the presumed owner of the websites in question has his own IL connection.  My guess is Said received a personal reference from him for his present gig.

http://internationalliving.com/about-il … d-morrill/

Here is a very good article about attribution titled,

You can quote me on that: Advice on attribution for journalists

While I donŽt have a journalism credential to waive around, I have enough common sense to know that Cuenca Highlife is not following these suggestions.

Here is one point for emphasis:

Don't just attribute; link. Linking is an essential part of attribution in online journalism. Linking lets people see the full context of the information you are citing. Even when readers don't click links, the fact that you are linking tells them that you are backing up what you have written, that you are attributing and showing your sources.

I rarely if ever have ever seen a link on Cuenca Highlife to source articles. Maybe the importance of linking for attribution was not taught in the journalism school of either the owner or editor of Cuenca Highlife.

Now let us review what the professorŽs defense was again:

If you're talking about credit, this isn't needed in the local articles since they translate and re-write these, usually from multiple sources, as far as I can tell. The information they provide is usually public record, which is not copyright-able in any country.

So I guess if something is in the public record, it is in the public domain.

Here is what the article says about information in the public domain:

Some information is in the public domain. After an incident has been reported widely, at some point it enters the public domain. If you're writing a feature story about exercise, you don't need attribution for the fact that President Obama likes to play basketball. That's a well-known, widely reported fact. And you don't need attribution now to report that the Walter Reed Army Hospital was not caring adequately for injured soldiers. That fact is well established and acknowledged. But if you reported that back in 2007 after the Washington Post's exclusive story, you needed to cite the Post. Even now, if you report much beyond the basic fact, and you didn't gather these details yourself, you should cite the Post if that's your source.

In the coming days, I intend to debunk the professorŽs argument that "the information they provide is usually public record".

Did you see the new article posted at CuencaHighlife today? If not, here is the link. Now this is a copy and paste of an English-based article fromm the BBC which you can find here.

Now, to their credit, Cuenca Higlife did credit the author and provide link to the source of the article which they have done in the past with other english-based articles, but I think they are in violation of the terms of use of the BBC.

2.1.1    you may not copy, reproduce, republish, disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer, download, post, broadcast, transmit, distribute, lend, hire, sub-license, rent, perform, make a derivative work from, make available to the public, adapt, alter, edit, re-position, frame, rebrand, change or otherwise use in any way any BBC Online Services and/or BBC Content in whole or in part on your product or service or elsewhere or permit or assist any third party to do the same except to the extent permitted at law ("Restricted Acts");

I read that paragraph to mean they donŽt want you copying and pasting their shit. Of course I donŽt know what means "except to the extent permitted at law" means.

I was doing some Googling and on this [url=http://www.webmasterworld.com/content_copywriting/3491659.htm]Content, Writing and Copyright Forum[/url] the following question was asked:

I want to post some news articles from a local newspaper webiste on my site...

i have asked the author twice via email and no response...dont know if he doesnt check it or what...

anywho... can i post the article on my site if i give full credit to the author and a link to the actual page without consent?

Here was one of the replies:

Linking to a site does not give you any exception with copyright ownership.

You can summarize and article and link to the original. You can comment on an article and link to the original.

YOU CANNOT COPY AN ARTICLE OR CONTENT AND JUST GIVE OWNERSHIP. It is their copyright, and therefore they are supposed to have control of where and how it is presented.

Hope that helps,
Jeff

Now, I donŽt have a journalism credential like the owner and editor of Cuenca highlife or Dan the professor, but I can tell when something stinks.

Since the BBC probably paid the writer of that article--Leo Johnson-- for the right to publish it to their website, it seems to me that the BBC wants you go to their website to read that article.

Now, again applying commense ethics to this situation, Cuenca Higlife probably would be fine publishing the introductory paragraph followed by an html link to the BBC article. Here is an example of how it should be done:

After the editors note,

In Zaruma, southern Ecuador, gold has been exploited for more than 500 years. Today, some 10,000 people in and around Zaruma still live off "artisanal" mining. For One Square Mile, Leo Johnson visited one such mine to witness the challenges miners face.

To continue reading, click here.

Since I know from personal experience that members of CuencaŽs mercantilist pundit class do not take advise or criticism from the commoners, and think it is their place in society to scold the rest of us, I see no point to contact the editor about this indiscretion on his part. However, I will be contacting the BBC legal department about this lack of journalistic professionalism.

Just as a quick follow up to the previous comment, I was doing something research about fair use about news articles and found this question and answer:

Question: Can I copy an entire news article from a commercial news web site and post the article on my web site?

Answer: The fair use doctrine, as currently interpreted by the courts, probably would not entitle you to do so. Even though news items are factual and facts themselves are not protected by copyright, an entire news article itself is expression protected by copyright.

I'm not an attorney, but I've worked in businesses where copyright is an issue enough to know that that sure looks like a violation of copyright (at least in the US, perhaps laws are different in Ecuador).

I would never put something like that into my blog, much less in a 'legit' publication. Besides the legal tangles they are likely to get into by doing something like that, there's a very simple ethical rule -- you don't steal stuff that belongs to other people, and that article belongs to the BBC.

I think notifying BBC is the right thing to do. Odds are they won't do much beyond having their lawyers send a 'cease and desist' letter, but maybe it will wake the people up at High Life.

Thanks Bob.

Also, I wanted to mention that on occasion I do see the posting of entire articles on websites, but usually the website doing it has obtained authorization from publisher or writes, and states that fact as a disclaimer. I doubt Cuenca Highlife got approval, and they certainly didnŽt state it.

BobH wrote:

I'm not an attorney, but I've worked in businesses where copyright is an issue enough to know that that sure looks like a violation of copyright (at least in the US, perhaps laws are different in Ecuador).

I would never put something like that into my blog, much less in a 'legit' publication. Besides the legal tangles they are likely to get into by doing something like that, there's a very simple ethical rule -- you don't steal stuff that belongs to other people, and that article belongs to the BBC.

I think notifying BBC is the right thing to do. Odds are they won't do much beyond having their lawyers send a 'cease and desist' letter, but maybe it will wake the people up at High Life.

DITTO

Here is the email I sent to the BBC:

I think the website CuencaHighlife.com violated your terms of service by posting the following article from your website in its entirety.

http://www.cuencahighlife.com/post/2013 … iners.aspx

In my opinion, I think that website routinely fails to respect attribution rules, despite the fact it is owned and edited by professional journalists.  Although in this case they did state the authorŽs name and the source of the article, I donŽt believe a complete reposting of the article is appropiate without your consent.

I think I am flustering Cuenca Highlife. They posted the article "Britain and Ecuador may disucuss status of Julian Assange" four times this morning, and when you try to open the page you get a server error.

I am troubled by the fact I canŽt read any of the articles from Cuenca Highlife today, and todayŽs Gringo Tree email didnŽt provide any explanation either.

Anyone know what the problem is?

Cuencahighlife is back up and my work continues. Nothing in this article qualifies as being in the public record, and another copyright violation with respect to the photo:

Saludos,

Hay una sitio de web con fines de lucro se llama Cuenca Highlife que regularmente usa contenido de El Tiempo para su pagina de web. Aunque ese contenido esta convertido en ingés, yo creo ellos deben dar credito a ustedes con un enlace al pagina de web que corresponde.

Aqui es un ejemplo.

http://www.cuencahighlife.com/post/2013 … hment.aspx

Si no le importa, favor de contactarlos y pedir que ellos hagan el apropiado attribución por sus esfuerzos..

gracias