Let's talk guns

Wow, you guys paint quite an image.  You make it sound worse than Rome, and those folks can screw up an intersection!

I too have a carry permit and carry everywhere its legal . But in moving to Ecuador I have had to do some serious reflection on that in making my decision . I understand that it is what it is and I accept that for the "greater good".  If you  can't accept it for what it is then it may be better to look at other places  whose laws are more acceptable to you. I don't think ranting will change anything . But on the other hand if by some unlikely miracle they change the laws in Ecuador to allow CCW then I'll be among the first to sign up.

Your security is on the hands of the police and private security.
Most buildings, condos, hotels, banks has their own security.
People living in houses have big walls with electrified wire on top and alarms.

If somebody breaks in your home you can try to defend yourself, if they shoot first, you can shoot back. Maybe it will self defense and you will be declare inocent but you will have to deal with jail, go to a trial and so on and this can take years until you are allowed to walk as a free men.

As the old cliche says  "When second count, the police are only minutes away". It would be wise if more governments would take a more wise and prudent look at their self defense laws.

Nards Barley wrote:

Apparently Brazil, Columbia, Uruaguay, and Paraguay allow gun ownership.

I know that Brazil manufactures and exports many quality firearms  and ammo. Taurus and Rossi to name a couple.

Vinny,
You mentioned the scenerio of if someone shoots at you first, you might be able to shoot back?
Boy, that just doesn't sound like a real good alternitive. Letting someone use you for target practice? Think I'd shoot first, then mysteriously have his gun fire a few times after he checked out. Just my way of thinking. < grin >

Ok, This is how it suppose to be in some ideal world.


Now, how it is in Ecuador:
If somebody breaks in your home and you decide to defend yourself, you can fire some shoots to intimidate and maybe they run away. But if not, and shoot back, make sure you kill the guy or guys. If you only wound them you can  face two situations: trial, be sure the burglars will sue you, or revenge, any other day. 

If you kill them, don't call the police. Put them in a plastic bag and dump them any place away from your home.

Are you ready to do something like this?

Vinny

Finally someone willing to tell the real deal.

I'm amazed that this thread keeps going. Is anyone besides me ready to change the subject?

Sorry,

I was reluctant to explain this kind of issue just because this  is the kind of reaction I want to avoid but, also I think is necesary to explain some things.
Is really sad this things happen here and I hope they will change soon, but fortunately we're not at the same level of violence as in Brasil or Guatemala.

VInny

Vinny
I agree that people need to know certain things to help them to make informed decisions. I appreciate your candor.

My first thought was a trip to Super Maxi to get LARGE garbage bags, then off to the hardware store for a wheelbarrow.
(bad back )   

Hello -> To note that some off topic messages have been moved.

Regards,
Aurélie

thank you.

chill-lax!!!!!

Regardless of your opinion of guns, there is nothing wrong with asking what the laws are, right ?

Gun laws are very restrictive and there is a process to legally own them…..
You can own them but you need to have each one registered and you cannot import any weapons or ammo.  There is no concealed carry permission at present also.
It is best to join a shooting club (tiro deportivo) and this allows you to transport weapons (unloaded) to the range and shoot.  The clubs I have been to are really nice and affordable.
Ammo is expensive but available.
You can own pistols, rifles and shotguns.

I have no issue defending myself from a criminal in the U.S..  That being said, I have lived in and visited dozens of other countries and I will tell you, I would be terrified of causing the death of a local (criminal or not) while defending myself.  The laws and their application are simply not the same in other countries, especially for those who may be viewed as outsiders.  Defending yourself, may very well land you in a little clay cell for the rest of your natural life, while you sit there chanting, "better judged by twelve than carried by six over and over again".  The more intelligent option for those overly concerned with self defense, may very well be taking some very, very, common sense precautions (that many seem to not do), or simply staying in the U.S..

Pepper spray is available in Ecuador, in small "one-use" size and larger "bear" size. $12 - $25. Some police carry the same brand in belt holsters.

Any idea what the law woukd be about using something like that ?
We don't go out late and do our best to stay out of questionable neighborhhods. I guess my main concern would be security for my home.

I'm told by my most-trusted Cuencano facilitator that the law allows it for self-defense, but I haven't confirmed that officially. It may not be possible to confirm absolutely - some officials may not want to promote the fact that it's legal - for police security reasons. Because it IS effective - it certainly buys enough time to change the dynamics of the situation. Otherwise, police themselves wouldn't carry it.

Here's my bottom line: I am a die-hard gun rights guy who learned to shoot and handle guns at age eleven, grew up with guns in the house and family car, hunting, and target shooting. That said, and this is painful to say out loud, all evidence tells me that if you use lethal force as a guest in *any* country, you're asking to ruin your life, due to the high risks of criminal prosecution, civil prosecution, reprisal, social recrimination, and/or guilt. In fact, specialists in lethal force for personal protection talk about how common it is for use of lethal force to end marriages. Often, the wife/kids can't get past the, "But did you have to *kill* him/her?" syndrome.

Terry

Yes , agree with the prosecution aspect. We lived in Costa Rica before when I was younger and one thing I heard frim expats there was "don't get in a physical altercation with a Tico or u will go to jail, which is a very bad place".
I have read a bit about Ecuador experiencing a few home invasions. So I guess at some point one would have to decide...am I just going to allow that to happen and hope for the best ? I'm not sure what the answer is.
Here in the state where I currently live, we have the castle doctrine, so if someone comes in my house....and get past my dogs...I would just assume they entered with bad intentions and my decision would be easy...to protect my wife and myself.
But u r correct...things are different out of the US.

Hard to believe that Ecuador is all that dangerous a place! Serious questions... exactly how many expats are murdered each year? How many tourists are murdered? How many break-ins actually result in violence and injury?

Perhaps the solution would be for US expats in EC to make an extended visit here to Brazil (any city, choice is yours). Here in Brazil one tourist (both national and foreign) is murdered every 72 hours. There are around 3 expats murdered each year in Brazil. In most Brazilian cities homes are invaded so often that the police won't even come out to take a report, you've got to go to them. Unless you've got an armed guard going to the ATM isn't even advisable.

After a month here you'll all go back to EC thinking that it's heaven on earth, I'm sure. Know what, despite all of the things I've described above being absolutely true, I've been here in Brazil for 14 years now and never had any problems at all, simply because I take all of the safety precautions necessary when you travel anywhere, be it Quito, São Paulo, Toronto, Detroit or London. I've lived in 5 different states and in the 3 most violent cities in Brazil - São Paulo, Belo Horizonte and Manaus among others.

Even in a country as violent as Brazil, most crimes are still crimes of opportunity. If you take reasonable precautions and don't do things to make yourself an easy target for crime chances are you'll never have to worry about packing iron. Just saying!

Don't know the most common safety rules... then read them in A Gringo's Survival Guide to Brazil. If they work here in Brazil where there are around 60,000 murders every year, they'll certainly work in Ecuador.

Cheers,
James
https://www.expat.com Experts Team

James wrote:

.

Even in a country as violent as Brazil, most crimes are still crimes of opportunity. If you take reasonable precautions and don't do things to make yourself an easy target for crime chances are you'll never have to worry about packing iron. Just saying!

James was killed on a sunny afternoon shortly after making this post.  Crime was never solved.

mugtech wrote:

James wrote:

.

Even in a country as violent as Brazil, most crimes are still crimes of opportunity. If you take reasonable precautions and don't do things to make yourself an easy target for crime chances are you'll never have to worry about packing iron. Just saying!

James was killed on a sunny afternoon shortly after making this post.  Crime was never solved.

From the searching I did at the time, it's more like nobody was interested in solving it.

Go to the government website for accurate and current information. The ex-pats will tell you whatever their prejudices are and they can be wild. Also, you need current information. The laws here change on a  daily basis. There are about 1.5 million guns in this country. About half are illegal. Almost all the guns carried by private security are made in Ecuador. It is illegal to make guns in Ecuador. No, you will not go to jail for a self-defense killing. You will not go to jail for an auto accident. If you do not have insurance, yes you will. In spite of their behavior, they are not trying to hit you. A lot is bluff. They still have the most driving fatalities of any South American country. Most do not really know how to drive. They have no fear of passing on a blind curve. Driving at night is not recommended. Buses are not recommended at night unless you are totally fearless. Watch your driver. If he is sleeping, it is better to wake him up and get off the bus. They will let you on or off anywhere.

Better to have a gun and never need it than to need it and never have it. I carried a 357 in a breakaway shoulder holster for 40 years. I never had to draw the gun. I just swept my jacket back to show the gun and the bad guys lost interest and left. I handled a lot of cash in some of the worst inner cities in the USA. These bad guys do not a gunfight. They are looking for helpless victims. Gun-free areas are their favorites.

The gun debate is a strange one for most outside the US, but I have one thought - a wild one.
Why not move to a country where you don't feel the need to carry a gun because violent crime is hardly a problem?

I'm sure I'll get accused of being anti gun, so I should mention I've handled weapons for a lot of years. That runs for pistols from .22 to .44, a variety of rifles, and 12 gauge shotguns.
I love the self discipline that's essential for target shooting, but really dislike the total stupidity demonstrated by far too many gun nuts.

If you need a gun for protection, you're in the wrong place.

The only place I have found where you do not need gun protection is possibly prison.

ACTION01 wrote:

The only place I have found where you do not need gun protection is possibly prison.

Time to move continents.

Seriously, there are massive areas of the world where getting  shot in a 7 Eleven is a lot less likely than being struck by lightning whilst riding a mute donkey that whistles Bohemian Rhapsody after singing Handel's Hallelujah Chorus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhjWdr-LAA.

For those outside the Americas (and bits of Africa and other really violent places), who feel the need for a gun, try THIS

ACTION01 wrote:

The only place I have found where you do not need gun protection is possibly prison.

You need THIS