Misinformed or trying to dupe me?

I hope no hesitation for my intention

Best known 2nd person who intended the same, myself..

This was my secret to confess... I can't resist anymore

(moderated: )

number 1. LOL @ aticus!

number 2.  DEJA VU!  I could swear I just read exactly the same post from Danny Johnson!

Allie...you are correct.

If you are stopped by the religious police (only pay attention to these guys when accompanied by real policeman...all others can take a hike) and it shows on your Iqamas that you are not married to each other, you will be charged with prostitution and he with soliciting a prostitute.

You'll be lucky if you are only deported instead of incarcerated.

MisterStretch wrote:

Allie...you are correct.

If you are stopped by the religious police (only pay attention to these guys when accompanied by real policeman...all others can take a hike) and it shows on your Iqama's that you are not married to each other, you will be charged with prostitution and he with soliciting a prostitute.

You'll be lucky if you are only deported instead of incarcerated.

whatttttttttttt


Alliecat,Your chip chop Square 

you won't imagine what i have experienced at Riyadh Airport being unaccompanied woman.

So yes woman do face terrible stuff here...i hope i m not off topic

you're always off-topic, but who cares?

always ???

yeah its kinda true

but

who cares!!!   

oops! i think julien does 

Nah, Julien doesn't care, as long as we play nice and he gets hits on the forum for his advertisers.

And you digress in a nice, way, Nonz.  No worries there.

so we can even do anything here??

so lets Dance

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plz tell me i was good

MisterStretch wrote:

Nah, Julien doesn't care, as long as we play nice and he gets hits on the forum for his advertisers.

Ha.

huh

dancing with nonz on a Moinday morning in the office conference room ...

had to modify the positions, though ...... this is ksa

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okay.. are those your FEET or is that your bum shaking around ??!?

hehehehe yes that is my hip movement.....and it never lies

Shakira Shakira 

I was asking musicman!

oops!!!

now imagine julien posting "off topic" with such lovely smile on his face

we just can't take u seriously [specially when we r just not guilty at alll]

Speak for yourself...some people ARE guilty for being off topic.

I will be kind and move us back on topic...

I never really worry about the male/female car thing unless I am somewhere quite fundamental.  Up here in Jubail, I would worry about it at the checkpoint on the highway.  No where else...because I wouldn't stop any where else.

I'd be skittish of doing it in Riyadh...they are just a tad too "conservative" for me.

From a Saudi point of view, and I hope none of you will be offended, but you guys are nuts..I haven't had a nice laugh in a long time…just a piece of advice..things are not as crazy as you guys might think…I know some had bad experience in the past, but..things are changing in Saudi Arabia.
keep in mind expats have more freedom living in the Eastern Province, like Khobar & Jubail. Riyadh has been always a headache even for us Saudis, specially Saudis who've been living out of the country and open minded about a lot of things.

Bu Abood wrote:

From a Saudi point of view, and I hope none of you will be offended, but you guys are nuts..I haven't had a nice laugh in a long time…just a piece of advice..things are not as crazy as you guys might think…I know some had bad experience in the past, but..things are changing in Saudi Arabia.
keep in mind expats have more freedom living in the Eastern Province, like Khobar & Jubail. Riyadh has been always a headache even for us Saudis, specially Saudis who've been living out of the country and open minded about a lot of things.

From an expat point of view, and please don't be offended, many of us know friends and colleagues that have been charged with prostitution or soliciting a prostitute for shaking hands with an acquaintance in a supermarket or a similar situation.

In Khobar and Damamm things are more relaxed, but surely not in Jubail. 

Mutawa aren't generally among the group that have lived overseas and are more cosmopolitan and relaxed about such male and female issues.  They are the ones that think they have the right to govern our relationships, as well as yours.

MisterStretch

I totally agree with you, However, keep in mind that things are changing in Saudi Arabia, the power that Mutawa's have will not last due to the fact that Saudi Arabia needs to compromise a lot of things after being part of the World Trading Organization (WTO). In the coming 5 to 10 years you will see things in Saudi Arabia that most generations thought it is impossible to happen. Its all politics my friend.

dude, I have stories of things happening here in Saudi Arabia that will make your eyes pop out of your head.

Bu Abood wrote:

dude, I have stories of things happening here in Saudi Arabia that will make your eyes pop out of your head.

Beer'n'Hookers?

But seriously, why dont you share these things with us?

Yes, please tell us the stories, for the life of me I don't understand how any single person can even look towards getting married.  How do they meet?  I hope im not off topic, or Julien can slap my hands. LOL

How do they meet?

It's often arranged through families.  Mothers see girls they think would be suitable for their sons and make inquiries... or a boy notices a sister of a friend, talks to his mother, she contacts the mother of the girl, etc. etc.

Arranged marriages are not exclusive to Saudi or the Middle East. They are very much prevalent in South Asia too where most communities still cling on to their traditional ways of life even though their descendants have moved into modernism and a new way of life.

Most of the traditions related to arranged marriages are based on parental choice that intends to maintain a sensible form of compatibility between the families of the two parties who are betrothed. No doubt there are no guarantees that these marriages will be succesful as much as personal choice marriages do. Both have their ups and downs.

When I look back at my grandparents generation every single one of them married accordig to their parents wishes and all their marriages lasted until death. Whether they were happy or sad is another issue altogether.

Bu Abood wrote:

dude, I have stories of things happening here in Saudi Arabia that will make your eyes pop out of your head.

Yes, please do share!

MisterStretch wrote:

Allie...you are correct.

If you are stopped by the religious police (only pay attention to these guys when accompanied by real policeman...all others can take a hike) and it shows on your Iqamas that you are not married to each other, you will be charged with prostitution and he with soliciting a prostitute.

You'll be lucky if you are only deported instead of incarcerated.

not true.

be back to comment some more.

Salman Omrani wrote:

not true.

Really?  Could you please explain that to a colleague from my previous position in Riyadh and the British woman that he had met at a social function and then happened to see in a supermarket? 

When they stopped, shook hands and began a conversation, they were confronted by a mutawa with a policemen by his side, arrested and given the options of being charged or accepting their passports and getting on the next plane out of the country.

This happened in spite of the fact that we had all been given a briefing when we arrived in country about this possibility.

I have had three positions in the Kingdom, in three different cities.  As part of my in-country cultural/legal briefing I have been warned about this each time.

Not true? 

Yes, true.

MS Wrote: 

Really?  Could you please explain that to a colleague from my previous position in Riyadh and the British woman that he had met at a social function and then happened to see in a supermarket? 

When they stopped, shook hands and began a conversation, they were confronted by a mutawa with a policemen by his side, arrested and given the options of being charged or accepting their passports and getting on the next plane out of the country.

This happened in spite of the fact that we had all been given a briefing when we arrived in country about this possibility.

I have had three positions in the Kingdom, in three different cities.  As part of my in-country cultural/legal briefing I have been warned about this each time.

Not true? 

Yes, true.

MS - this is so sad.  I feel bad for your friend!  Hopefully things are changing!  Being a VERY social person and a hugger, I can only hope this doesn't EVER happen to me.  Because I can count the number of US Expats that I know on one hand, I go out of my way to chat with everyone I meet, regardless of where it happens.  Its hard to believe that  in today's society (2010) that this could happen.  It almost sounds like a fictional episode from some other world.

It almost sounds like a fictional episode from some other world.

Often this place resembles a fictional other world.

MisterStretch wrote:

It almost sounds like a fictional episode from some other world.

Often this place resembles a fictional other world.

After my first full weekend here yesterday, my hubby and I kept repeating that this place is like no other place on earth...driving around yesterday we noticed all the store mannequins are headless and the foreign advertisements have the models faces blanked out..spooky...as I am a hugger too, (and impulsive:D) hubby has taken to walking 4 steps ahead of me in the supermarket:lol:

I have also taken to being completely veiled just so I don't draw any further attention to myself, which I find comforting.

no comment

as I am a hugger too, (and impulsive:D) hubby has taken to walking 4 steps ahead of me in the supermarket:lol:

hehehehhe Oh m Gash!!!! u have just given me the first morning laugh Thx Ioanna

If u feel like ,curl in your hand in his and walk like a Queen,no one will dare to touch u guys

i do it all the time

Ok Nonz,
Once, a long time ago I tried walking like a Queen, my wife hit me. Just don't mince your words with me sweetie.

Kiss, Kiss.

So, as to the original question posted by Allie, she IS correct.  True, the "Law" (I put the word in quotes not to mock, but b/c the Saudis do not have the same type of detailed penal codes we are used to in the West, so sometimes it's hard to know what the law is) may not be applied the same to all parties. It may be more strictly applied to Muslims or Saudis OR more harshly applied to foreigners too, goes both ways. But what Allie said could happen, COULD indeed happen.

While I understand the need for "anecdotal evidence" and nothing beats first hand experience, all I can do is look first to the Legal code, (which is not that helpful in this case), OR look to the US Embassy for guidance, as someone about to move there. The embassy says that the Mutaween Do have the right "to harass, insult, arrest or ASSAULT you" if they believe you have offended their culture or religion, and the ways they are offended, are not clearly defined with any specifics at least not in the Embassy's info for Americans.

In any case, am I to assume that Riyadh's religious police are more strict than other cities? And so, is that what the writer ("bu"?) meant when he said we were "crazy" in Riyadh?...

I didn't get that. Does that mean we are "Nuts" or "crazy" to live there, or "nuts" to think Allie is right, or nuts b/c it's true?  I am intrigued to hear Saudis say that things are changing/modernizing politically there, as it is certainly what the public image of the KSA is starting to have here. But I assume that irks some segments of society there, as change often does.

From my logic view, and please don't be offended mister stretch, i don't know why u do have all this anger toward Saudi Arabia! if u don't like it u can just take the first flight & go back to your home:)

it's laws! the government's low, you came here to work and to earn money, but you'll have to obey the rules here, otherwise you can go somewhere else. i don't believe that you're forced to come here or something like this, so, why do u bother yourself by coming here and living with all that anger inside you!

don't take it personal mister, but i think and i'm sure that in your country there're a few rules that i won't be comfortable with, but i'm the one who walked in on his feet, so, i'll have and i should respect the country low & rules no matter what r they!.

MY RESPECTS:) have a wonderful night

MND,

I cannot speak for Mr Stretch (and he does a good job of speaking for himself anyhow!) but as an American who is on her way to your country to "follow her husband", please understand, THIS SITE is for us to discuss the rules and laws of your land with each other.  We want to know the rules.  From your post, I still didn't get an answer. Instead, you felt the need to express your own anger (which you did respectfully, & which I appreciate) but without answering the topic or helping the rest of us figure this all out. 

My husband is a physician and has been offered a good job there, to teach other doctors and practice medicine for your countrymen. We like the idea of learning about a culture SO different from ours. But as "politically correct" as all that sounds, and IS, let me add something else for you to consider.

We are coming to your country in peace, and at your invitation, to help people in need in your country. We are not immigrating there or crossing borders illegally to use up benefits or entitlements.  Your nation invited us, and we accepted.

Surely it's fair (and a sign of respect) for us to want to know the rules/laws you have. For me, an attorney in my own country who won't be able to practice law there, or even drive  (or the many other things I take for granted here that I won't even mention, for fear it offends you), all I can say is that it helps ME a lot to know the reasons behind the rules so I can understand the rules.  Understanding the rules is half of knowing them, and if we don't understand the rules/laws OR know them, then problems will arise. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can see, not one Saudi has answered the question clearly on this site.  Is it any wonder there's some frustration and fear? I know I have some major fear of anti-Americanism and anti-women worries. I say this in part from what we hear in the media here, which I try to discount,  but in part from what I read in your own papers.

Look, I think you have a point in saying "Don't come if you don't like the rules". I get that and I accept that. 


We are asking YOU, the citizens there, about the rules & laws, and ALSO--the expectations and realities there, and I am reading all I can to avoid trouble and to enjoy our stay in your country.
Help us out please. Don't spend a whole post blasting someone for offending you on this site when the whole purpose of this site is to promote understanding between the cultures.
I know that's what I'm looking for.