Best place to live : Hungary or Bulgaria?

Hi,

I can only tell you about Hungary:
What you describe is our idyllic village life here :-)
There are some conditions that might not fit your plans though:

If you move out to a desolate farm (tanya), crime becomes an issue, and you'll be alone. Winters are long, cold, and lonely. I do not recommend it.

You'll have to stay within a village, and be friends with your neighbors.
Violent crime is rare where people know each other and care, but you have to be part of the community for this to work for you too.

It's tougher if you don't speak the language:
You'll have to hook up with the few locals that do speak English, learn enough Hungarian to be able to buy from local producers, maybe sell a little of yours, trade livestock, enjoy the local events, discuss the weather...

You'll have to find the balance between being too central to have animals, versus being too far out to be out of sight.
Similarly you'll have to be on good terms with the villagers for beneficial cooperation, but not caught up too much to care about gossip and nosiness.

I imagine Bulgaria to be very similar, just warmer :-)

Is debs wrote:

What country is the better one Hungary or bulgraia, we are looking for a place we can relax, have a couple of animals and not having to worry about crime, or people breaking in, as we get older, so please let me know how your day to day living is

Generally living in smaller village is nice and peaceful. If you can afford the newly built areas, the chances are smaller to get offended by neighbors. Villages around Budapest and north-western areas of the country are safer as the poverty is not-so-high there. Still you have to be careful, as ppl get poorer the crime is increasing. Luckily the crimes causing injuries or death are rare, but robbery, stealing, cheating is becoming a problem.
What you can do is to use alarm system and cctvs around your house, the criminals will choose easier target instead your house.
Insurances covering your house and moveable properties in your house are quite cheap, so it's worth to get one.

Thank you for your info, what is the medical like as I am diabetic, can I buy my insulin over the counter, we would get alarms and CCTV, could you give me names of good villages  around we do not want to be in a city, want the country side thanks again

If you like water, consider villages around lake Balaton and lake Velence. They can be busy in the summer, but the residential areas are quite peaceful. If you need constant medical attention, I suggest to choose villages near to the cities with hospitals (for example Veszprem if you choose Balaton). As far as I know, ppl with diabetes need to visit their doctors regularly, and I think there is no problem around the insulin. Finding a good doctor is another question, even one who knows english...

At Balaton-side prices you might as well look at hot spring areas: Egerszalok, Heviz, Kehidakustany, Zalaegerszeg...
Some are fairly close to Budapest: Leanyfalu, Visegrad, ...

Here's a list by region:
http://www.termalfurdo.net/furdo
"termalfurdo" is supposed to have natural hot spring water,
"gyogyfurdo" has elevated mineral content with medical properties.

These are more developed, pricey, well policed places, not where you'd keep animals though :-)

Is debs wrote:

have a couple of animals

Pets or farm animals? Note that different villages may have different rules. Mine, for example, limits pets in the village - for example no more than two dogs. Outside the village there are fewer limits, but other regional rules start to apply about farming and animal husbandry.

Is debs wrote:

not having to worry about crime, or people breaking in

In ten years we have had two proven attempted crimes at our house in Hungary. One tried to enter our house and another our cellar. Both times this occurred when we were at home. In comparison, in the US I lived through 3 burglaries and one mugging in 20 years.

One increasing way thieves gain entry to a house in Hungary: to just knock at the door, claim they are from one official organization or anther, and entering the house when the home owner opens the door. A person in our village was robbed last month by two suspects claiming they were from a charity seeking clothing donations for the poor.

Alarms and cameras may help a little, but they are unfortunately fairly easy to defeat.

The best rural security is one or more large, mean dogs that patrol your fenced yard preventing people from gaining access near to the house without causing a lot of noise, and for you to be alert and check out the reasons they bark even at 2:00 AM.

I'm not sure I can properly express the nuances in English, but I think the distinction between crime involving aggression opposed to pickpocketing, theft, fraud, sneak-in burglary and other non-violent crime is important.

Last time I saw statistics about it, aggressive crime was relatively low, especially when discounting drunk brawls and love affairs gone wrong.

I looked at both countries and opted for Hungary. To be fair, when I looked at Bulgaria I was thinking in terms of a holiday home which would also be suitable for retirement in 15 or so years time. When I looked at Hungary the plan was to relocate straight away and retire early.
I rejected Bulgaria for several reasons:
1) Poor infrastructure
2) Too hot in the summer
3) Too much crime
4) Too much corruption
5) Most areas can be depressing with all the derelict houses, abandoned half built factories etc.

Bulgaria does have a proper coast whereas Hungary has the very highly commercialised rip-off Balaton area but it depends on your proposed lifestyle whether these factors are significant.

fidobsa wrote:

rip-off Balaton area

Only during the rather brief summer "season". The rest of the year it can be quite peaceful.

Thank you.  Your advice on location makes sense - now that I think about it, and I hadn't considered it. My wife and I are seriously, seriously considering a move to Hungary (and are struggling with learn-a-word-a-day-Hungarian). On the other hand, a distant relative successfully moved to Bulgaria some years back ("warmer").  We trawl on.

I agree if at least one of you does not speak Hungarian you are going to be miserable in the countryside.
There are not many jobs in the country so crime is on the rise.
At first Hungary seems like a cheap place to live but in reality after awhile you realize it isn't all the cheap for what you actually get for your money.
We lived outside of Budapest for a long 18 months, trying to sell Off my MIL's house with a huge double sized lot.
Got a good taste of country lifestyle and know I would not enjoy it for long.
My husband is Hungarian speaks the language perfect but even he had to adjust his way of thinking to be able to do business etc. with his fellow countrymen, some people really were hicks and red necks.
Once my BIL, SIL Husband and I, me being the only non Hungarian in the group drove to a country Inn  to treat my in-laws to a meal.We had stopped there once and had a nice lunch( even though the waiter tried to double charge for a few items) We took them out on a busy Friday night. My in-laws are no longer city people but not exactly country people either.
All of us were middle aged and dressed in nice casual clothing.
When we walked in the front doors of the Inn, every single person in the place stopped what they were doing and just looked at all of us like we had just landed from the moon.
No one came over to sit us down and we just stood there for a few mins.
We turned around and walked out, so unfriendly and creepy.
No idea why that happened or what was up but who needs that?
Only had that happen one time in our lifes when we walked into a Mexican place to eat in New Mexico, 2 non Latino's were not welcome there, we stood like idiots waiting to be seated and everyone just stared at us. had to walk out and since then my husband will not eat Mexican food.( Typical stubborn Hungarian that he can be at times)
If you come to HU I would really tell you to rent for one year before buying a ranch or getting pets.

Hi Marilyn.
Many thanks for these insights.  More and more 'digging' has uncovered similar experiences - in Bulgaria, as well as Hungary!

We spent a very happy 2006-2009 in Thailand and returned to the UK because of worries about foreigners' future there. Now - everything being relative - SE Asia seems not so bad, after all.

Are you still there?  Perhaps in a city?

Best wishes

Yes we now live in our paid off flat in Budapest.
My husband is Hungarian otherwise there is no way I would pick Hu as a place to live for myself, have too many friends and family in the US that I miss.
We usually travel to the US every 2 years or so, harder to make those long haul flights as one gets older though.
Plan on returning to Las Vegas to see our boy this fall, I may look into working again part-time while we are over there, money is so much better and my job experience requires all English skills.
We are actually ready to sell out here anytime we can recover our investment money, market in HU is bad for selling at the moment, great for buying.
In any case just a couple more years here and we will leave loss or not.
I can not see myself becoming an old lady and trying to get around the city, had some terrible experiences using crutches and a cane post knee surgery here and can not imagine being really old or handicapped over here, nothing is easy for the disabled or old here.
We have been looking into Thailand and other SE Asian countries , had planned on going this fall for 3 months to check them out but duty calls, our son always comes first with us even though he is pushing 40.Some jobs never end!
We enjoyed Hungary so much more when we only stayed here for 6 months and returned 6 months to 18 months later. Made good money in the US and enjoyed the warmer months without a care. Now that we are "official" over here it has lost some of the glamour. We have been visiting HU off and on since 1978, 1986 is the last time I came over when it was still a Soviet state. Had no big desire to return, my husband made at least a half dozen or more trips without me, I just didn't want to come over, more fun to relax in Calif with my son and dog friends and family.

We know many Hungarians living here in HU now that had left HU around the same time my husband did in the early 1970's. Most have changed, sort of on the snobby side now over here, think they are special since they lived in the US and made a couple of bucks.
Sort of makes me upset to be around them so we now longer see them. I used to drag them to my mother's home in Calif for home made dinners at holiday times because they had no family in the US, now that we are here in HU we are never invited to their family functions, two faced people.My sister even invited HU over to her house to be kind to them as they had no family and hardly spoke English.
All good, not real friends after all, as an ex-pat here you can never fit in, it is ok though at least it is good to know that up front.
I seriously would tell you to come here for a few months, the prices are fairly low from the UK to fly over and the British pound is going for a good exchange rate, you can not go to many countries these days and spend so little.
Just would be very careful before moving over for good, the health care here is dicey at best, dental is cheap but it is also hit or miss with what dentist you go to, some are great and others do a half way job, fill your teeth but leave them a bit off where you have to get them redone in short time.
Hate to sound negative about Hungary but as far as growing old here, no way.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

When we walked in the front doors of the Inn, every single person in the place stopped what they were doing and just looked at all of us like we had just landed from the moon.

Ah yes, the Hungarian "stare". Happens also for everyone that drives by our place. The driver will rubber neck to stare at me me and what I am doing. I just learned to stop what I am doing and stare back. I find it quite amusing actually. Villages are gossip riddled environments, and the people here seem to take every opportunity to gather more incorrect information to gossip about.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

my husband will not eat Mexican food.( Typical stubborn Hungarian that he can be at times)

This is oddly Hungarian indeed. The "hurt to the bone" response. I hate to say this, but I find it odd how many times I have seen Hungarians respond in an over the top spiteful and vindictive manner over even the slightest issue that they see as a transgression that someone else did to them (but are completely unaware at the same time of their own transgressions -- it is always "the other person's fault"). A Californian would say "Acknowledge and move on, dude". Here so many seem unable to move on. As if their perceived injury has become part of them. Know of people in our village living next to each other and refuse to talk to each other because of some really minor issue decades ago. Even try to find the furthest distance between themselves in the pew at church (really forgetting that entire concept of Christan forgiveness). I have no idea how anyone can hate that long.

I for one could not imagine ever avoiding Mexican food, for any reason. I love it too much (and going out to a good Mexican restaurant is the only thing I really miss living where I do in Hungary).

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Hate to sound negative about Hungary but as far as growing old here, no way.

I would not recommend Hungary as a place to retire. There are other places that function better and provide better services for retirement living. One must look at the entire society and its structure when selecting a place to retire. Lower fiscal costs, in some areas such as housing, is just one aspect to consider, and not necessarily the best one (cheap living also often means lower local incomes, hence lower tax base, and as an artifact lower quality health care options -- which is often an important consideration for those of retirement age). Only those from nearby countries really should consider Hungary as a retirement place, such as Austria or Germany, as it is rather easy to return "home" for health care treatments if needed.

I like it here specifically because it is not too neat, and somewhat a frontier. I consider it a mid level covered wagon destination; not as ruff and tumble as some places, but not as neat as others. And even though I am aware of this, I am still a greenhorn to some extent. But learning.

Yes they can be quirky to say the least, after being around them for over 42 years, I think I am a side chair expert.
When my ex DIL from Hungary came to visit us for 6 months pre horror wedding date, I took her with me to one of my yoga classes. My yoga instructor is from Munich and another good friend in class was from Switzerland. A very small class of perhaps 9 of us in the room.
I  asked both their opinions of my future DIL. They both looked a bit shy about answering me and kindly just said,"she is very goth". They were being kind.

Funny and just so off the charts is the fact that my BIL and SIL built homes right next to each other in Erd and have not spoken to each other for well over a decade! How stubborn is that?
We have no contact with either of them these days, too insane for words.
My husband is the "odd man out" we lived in Hawaii just too long for him to have a attitude about too many things. Being in Hungary does tend to bring out a few strange behaviors in him at times though, time to start meditating and staying far away from negative vibes.
I have heard a very upsetting saying from some Hungarians about their nature.
I was told their general mind set is that if they happen to see a person doing better then they are, they wish them to lose it all where as in the US if we see a person doing well, we will ask what is their secret and follow their example. I will never understand such an attitude.
As far as getting stared at, well it all started with me in 1976, slim, super tall women wearing Calif style clothing and having a huge A lined bob haircut with a "big perm" done up in bright red. I had heads turning all the time, very uncomfortable after a bit, not always in the mood to have heads turning my way, many rude people around me then. My son was only 2 1/2 years old when we took a tram in Budapest. It was very crowded and hard to get off of.
I had his hand but no one would let me pull him with me out the door, I had to swear at everyone and give them my "Mohawk" look. It was a nightmare, no wonder I had to be dragged back here in 86 and then never came again for many years.Had some girlfriends married to Hungarian men who were from Japan, most only came one time and have never come back. Married all most as long as I have been but send their husband here alone while they go to Japan on holiday, weird world.

The wild west is what we call it here.
Being from a small cowboy town in S. Cal. I find some of the same ways happening here.( stubborn and red neck at times)
Had a few years in the back country in Hawaii, now that is the wild west.
New Mexico is still the real wild west but at times Hungary even gives Santa Fe and Albq. a run for it's money.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I was told their general mind set is that if they happen to see a person doing better then they are, they wish them to lose it all

Yes, have experienced that. If they are not the ones to succeed, the other's success is resented.

The counter scenario also exists (I am told), as a countryside saying that goes something like : If my pig gets sick and dies, my neighbor's pig should also get sick and die.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Yes they can be quirky to say the least

Cultures are a funny thing. What is perfectly normal in one culture is abhorrent in another.

I find that a recent Kalles ad campaign gives a really good example of this, in a funny and quirky way. Kalles is a Swedish fish "caviar" that only apparently Swedish people do not gag when eaten, so the company made a series of adds highlighting it as a “A very unique Swedish taste.”

The American would say, “You don't want to serve that to people, dude.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMyfZydK-4s

While the Hungarian, when asked if it is good replies "yes", but then gives a face expression that is priceless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yspCiq3WnU

I am of course 100% bias on the issue whom I would believe, being a "tell it as it is American" myself. And with the local cultural tendency toward public "nice and polite" (i.e. extra PC), it also leads me to assume a varying degree of transparency and/or honesty in any conversation in any point of time. I find it easier to simply not believe what I am told in Hungary (believe half of what I see and nothing I hear), take most things with a grain of salt, and expect any important issues to be documented in writing.

Yes we Americans can be blunt at times but at least we usually know where everyone stands.
We tend to call each other out if we are acting up as the say in Hawaii,"Got one kine attitude".
My mother was in shock and despair when I was a young 19 year old overprotected girl from Cali who found herself an "Old" 26 year old from Hungary.
My mother was the most open minded person one could ever meet, she was raised as a 3/4 white child (1/4th native American) in a all black neighborhood with her full blooded old grandmother raising her.
Her  1/2 bro was 19 years older then her and married a 15 year old girl who literally just came off the boat with her parents from Hungary. I thought she would be happy I met a Hungarian since her fave SIL was one.
No way, she thought they were not totally honest with each other and would of liked"Anything but a Hungarian" in her words. sad it took her over a decade to trust my husband 100%, in the end he was her confidant and adviser in almost everything.

klsallee wrote:

I like it here specifically because it is not too neat, and somewhat a frontier.

@klsallee: Thanks for putting words to Hungary's "charm"! I've been trying to describe why I like this country, and you've explained it perfectly. It reminds me of Puerto Rico 20 years ago, or Costa Rica nowadays.

Our eyes are on STALKS!!
Again, thanks.
Thailand is looking better and better [incl. Laos]

Let us know how Thailand living has been for you? MY husband really wants to check it out, said the visa requirements are easier for retired people there then for the average tourist.
How terribly humid is it over there? I love Island livestyle, lived on Maui, Ohau, and Hawaii. Never too humid on those Islands as we got trade winds. Also still got to live in the US and feel like we were living in another country.
Would be great if you could switch homes ever 6 months between Thailand and Hungary.

Hello everyone,

Thank you for contributing to the present thread 

However, i need to point out that the topic here is about Hungary/Bulgaria so we better talk about the best places to live.

I invite you to exchange in private message if you have anything in particular to ask a member about another country.

Cheers,
Best of luck in your projects,
Bhavna

I am answering the question which is asking us to compare two places. All I can say is that I have got a couple of friends who have lived in Bulgaria for ten years and have had some very unhappy times.
They are now moving to a lovely woodland cottage near my place in the Hungarian countryside. They are desperate to get to Hungary which has friendly neighbours, cheap and comfortable cottages and a reasonable standard of living.

"We have been looking into Thailand and other SE Asian countries , had planned on going this fall for 3 months to check them out but duty calls, our son always comes first with us even though he is pushing 40.Some jobs never end!"

Hello Marilyn,
I have been to Thailand over 30x in the past 20 years.  ALL of Thailand.
Many people are retiring now in Koh Samui or Phuket.
Thais offer retirement visas for folks 50 years and over.

Life is safe, greatest food in the world and a place of smiles.  2-3 months a year max though.  I have friends that are there are 6 months a year and go island crazy.

Thanks may check it out next year. used to live in Hawaii, know what Island fever is...

Hungary has the lowest house prices in Europe. Wine costs from $1 upwards and there's a brandy that can be purchased for under $5. Food will cost half the cost of England and america,and Bulgarians property market has risen whilst Hungary has dropped. Its Hungary definitely.

Housing in district V in Budapest is really a great buy with the HUF so low.
Beautiful city and so much cheaper than Praha Bratislava etc.  Apts in the best district are incredibly cheap to buy.

I certainly wouldn't mind switching homes with you,Hungary to Thailand every 3 months.

Mercurien wrote:

Wine costs from $1

If one knows and loves wine, best to avoid that price point, even in Hungary.

Mercurien wrote:

there's a brandy that can be purchased for under $5.

I have never bought Pálinka'. Everyone seems to have some relative who makes it, so it is often freely offered. Just get to know some locals.

Mercurien wrote:

Food will cost half the cost of .... america

FWIIW, my personal grocery bill is certainly not half of what it was in the US. If you mean dining out, then yes that is still cheaper, but not a cheap as it use to be.

The Price is right for cooking Wine,a Good Wine here easily on pars with Chiles.

Yes the super cheap wines in Hungary are not very good, I tried some in the past and they were really only used for cooking. Don't buy them any longer though, do not buy pricey wines either, my husband hardly ever drinks and does not understand really what a good wine is.
All good, keeps me from over drinking wine.
I only drink wine or beer here, once in awhile something stronger but I no longer enjoy the side effects.
Had some fantastic homemade honey vodka one of my cousins husbands made in Poland, he gave us a bottle of it.
My FIL used to make his own Palinka, I found it interesting how these old time Hungarian retired men make their own brandy and see who makes the best batch. My FIL always won out.
Food for us is really cheap at least half of what we spend in the US and we buy better items then we usually do in the US.
Of course it is almost impossible to really tell if we spend more on food in Hungary or the US because we were cooking for our adult son and he is a fussy eater. He must have off season fruits and price does not stop him. We also lived in Las Vegas and had hook up's for really good buffet meals, between my husband comps for gambling and being of a senior citizen age, we ate for almost nothing in Vegas, steak, fish all with free bubbly or wine. Had so many freebies we were sick of eating out.

Internet is cheap in Hungary, we pay around 7,000 a month for cable fast speed internet, basic tv( I don't watch the tv here) and a land line phone. My son in the US pays over $100. a month without phone service.He pays extra for his cell phone service.
Hate to say it, we really are planning on returning to the US within a few years time for good but the thought of the prices in the US is a bit scary.

Mercurien wrote:

The Price is right for cooking Wine.

IMHO, good food is too precious to cook with a $1 bottle of wine. It does affect the food.

True, that's why we no longer cook with it but at the time it was better then pouring it down the drain, my husband is soooo Hungarian, will not waste a thing, drives me nuts sometimes though.

Wine drinking is just so common here that we realized the doctors just assume people drink.
Sort of makes me upset because we just found out my husbands blood readings from 3 years ago showed he had thyroid issues. Had a new check up and this time the same doctor decided to ask if he drank. He said he didn't, she said oh, I thought you did so didn't think twice about the off blood readings.
Guess everyone is a drinker here it is more rare not to be one.3 wasted years of not knowing about his health though...

blonder wrote:

Apts in the best district are incredibly cheap to buy.

Hm. That really is relative and what you plan to do with the property.

If you want to use the property as a rental income, and given current local economic conditions (wages, etc) and possible rental prices one can charge, then the prices really are not that cheap IMHO.

If one want to buy to flip, prices are just now rising, but were stagnant for years. That is more difficult to determine as to fiscal value of "cheap" versus future return.

If you want to live in the apartment, then yes, the prices are certainly much (much, much.... etc) less expensive in Budapest than say New York or London. But then you are living in Budapest, not New York or London, which one may find over the long term wonderful and you can not believe you are so lucky to live in such a great place (or not). What I am saying is expectations about Budapest from short visits such as it is a beautiful city (and it certainly is) is not the same as living somewhere full time and dealing with daily realities. Best to rent for the first 12 to 24 months till you get your "sea legs" and determine what part of the city you like the most before considering buying. The "best" district for each person may actually be different that what one may expect from short visits or what you read or are told about the city. A beautiful city is like a beautiful woman. Long engagements are good before marriage, because perceived beauty may be only skin deep. 

Love your answer about buying property.
We bought our flat at a "bad time" we bought 10 years ago using a bit of  money  my MIL left us with our own funds. We used real estate agents but they kept showing us the worst flats for our then $50,000 cash money, really ugly places that needed a ton of work, flats were going for allot back then and we only wanted to use cash on hand and had tickets to return to the US within a short time. We found our flat on our own through a newspaper add, it was much better then what the agents had been showing us. 2 rooms, not ground level and 3 huge bright windows to a fairly quiet st. near a large blvd but not on one.
we bought it for cash and didn't live in it for a couple of years time. We would of had to of paid the HU gov. something like 40% on what my MIL left us in her old property if we had taken the money out of Hungary.
We might get lucky soon and recover what we paid for this dump, the honeymoon is over with Budapest for us.
Once one settles down and actually notices the sorts of people living around you, the small ways the house managers avoid doing their jobs etc. it makes selling out easy, even if we may be lucky to just break even.
Our friends bought a similar sized flat in the castle district for half of what we spent, they bought only 5 years before we did. we missed that boat.
We bought without really considering actually living in Hungary for so long, plans were to use this flat only as a short term vacation flat.Life has a funny way of trapping you sometimes.Budapest is so pretty that it is hard to break away and make a fresh start.One gets in their comfort zone and gets lazy.