Cuenca & Loja

I recently did a cost of living survey of expats living in Cuenca for International Living. The average monthly budget excluding housing & travel was around $1200. I stress this is an average. If you have pets, consume lots of imported goods, or have a vehicle you will obviously spend more. A nice rental will be about $400-500/month unfurnished, and to own you'll pay around $75,000 and up.

Prospective expats ask about Loja a lot, but few if any foreigners seem to live there. It's also my understanding that English is not spoken much by the locals. You'll be a pioneer if you choose this city.

Thank you for the info.  I have read so much about Cuenca and the only concern I have is the weather.  It sounds like it rains a lot there.  My husband does not want to live where it is hot and muggy.  We currently live in New York and getting over a foot of snow today!  We just want to be able to find a country where we can relocate and live well on our future pensions.  We have been reading about Loja as it is much smaller than Cuenca but I guess expats do not like it as much, maybe due to the language issue as you mentioned?  Thank you so much for your information, it is very helpful!

Some folks are disappointed to find Cuenca cooler and rainier than they expected, but humidity is low so "muggy" never describes our weather. The tradeoff for warmer weather is locating in a lower elevation where you also get humidity and bugs. I prefer to occasionally put on a sweater!

Ed is accurate noting in the higher elevations (Cuenca, Quito) humidity is not an issue. If you are looking for warmer temps but don't want the beach, an option is the valley areas outside Quito (Los Chillos, Tumbaco, Cumbaya, etc.) where temps are routinely 10 degrees (F) warmer.

Hey Ed,

You seem like a nice guy and I don't want to offend you, but I don't understand why you write for International Living.

You may have noticed my posts here; I am not an expat, but I am 60 years old, I've bought and sold houses, I know how unscrupulous the real estate business can be, and every time I see one of International Living's pitches my alarm bells start ringing.  Just this afternoon, I listened to one of their audio presentations and it was a showcase of slick double-talk and innuendo, if not outright misrepresentation.

From what I gather, if one is extremely frugal, it is possible to get by in Ecuador on $800 a month, but International Living advertises constantly that one can live very well on $800, in Cuenca.  Now, here you are, saying the average expat's budget in Cuenca is $1200 a month, not including $400-500 for rent, not including pets, not including a vehicle, not including imported goodies.  Even without a vehicle, your estimated budget is over twice what International Living claims.  What's going on?

John

I'll attempt to maintain my "nice guy" image with this reply, John. I started writing for IL in late spring of this year and was certainly aware of the criticisms you mention. I now am on the mailing list for everything sent out by IL and can honestly state that with one exception (an outdated IL Facebook article which was pulled as soon as I challenged it) all the published information related to Ecuador has been accurate.

My wife & I spoke in Quito at the Fast Track conference this past August (we'll be at the next one in February as well) and every speaker on every topic presented current and factual data. I researched the figures mentioned in an earlier reply on this thread that were included in the recently published IL Retirement Index. And I'm currently editing and updating the 2013 Ecuador Owner's Manual.

All that being said, I know people who are living in Cuenca for less than $1000/month and are quite happy within that budget.
But they cut and color their own hair, seldom eat out, clean their homes, and rarelyh take taxis. My wife and I would not be satisfied with that lifestyle so our monthly expenses are considerably higher.

So the thoughts I'd like to leave you with are, IL is making every effort to provide its hundreds of thousands of subscribers with accurate information, living "well" is a relative term defined by each individual.

LeftClique wrote:

From what I gather, if one is extremely frugal, it is possible to get by in Ecuador on $800 a month, but International Living advertises constantly that one can live very well on $800, in Cuenca.  Now, here you are, saying the average expat's budget in Cuenca is $1200 a month, not including $400-500 for rent, not including pets, not including a vehicle, not including imported goodies.  Even without a vehicle, your estimated budget is over twice what International Living claims.  What's going on?

John

John, although he needs no assistance let me defend Ed from what I hope was an unintentional attack. I believe Ed has been consistent in his explanations that one's cost of living in Ecuador will vary based on their lifestyle. In my opinion, too much emphasis is placed in this and others forums including International Living on living costs. To be comfortable living internationally requires much more than merely a desire to reduce expenses.

Heres the deal as I see it:
Many that are considering re location to Ecuador have heard the hype of an $800.00 a month lifestyle. This figure has floated around the internet for at least a couple of years. To many that are considering the move, that amount is very alluring. Is it doable? Sure, if you are willing to make certain sacrifices. And, to many considering the move, they are willing to make those sacrifices. Primarily, out of need, not desire. Lets face it, the economic outlook, and recent past, has really negetively impacted a large section of the US, and the immediate future does not look too bright for many.
So, folks pin their hopes on a new beginning, in a new country that will afford them some semblance of financial security, and a dignity of life they feel they can't afford where they currently are.
Again, in the end, it all comes down to personal choice. There is such a wide spectrum of people and their financial situations. What is ones extravagance, is anothers basic requirements.
So, at the end of the day, I guess it comes down to the statement that has been made time after time: You have to visit the area you are interested in. See first hand what the costs involved are, and if you're willing to pull the trigger with that FIRST HAND knowledge.
I have followed John and Ed on  various forums. I respect both in that they are interested in sharing and getting information on life in Ecuador. I appreciate both of their contributions.
Peace
Neil

I echo ZenSpike's views. Most people do their best to give advice, but their lifestyle and concept of basic needs differs significantly. I would not discredit any unless it is the classic fear and confusion inducing poster.
It is best to come and look for yourself...you will go to markets and stores and check prices on your own, only targeting items that are important to you.
At least here in the coast were rental prices are lower for the most part except in the high season, the US$ 800 figure does works well as far as I heard. I dont rent, I own and I am rather frugal  as we are happy with little in such generous weather. I dont use AC nor heat for instance, dont need it due to the warm weather and the sea breeze. Many folks do, which implies additional costs and higher power bill. Otherwise my water bills (even with extensive gardening)comes between US$ 1.70- US$ 1.90/ month, while my electricity bill something between US$ 9 and 13/month. We dont need cable nor landline but I know internet and landline is between US$ 20 and 40/ month depending on which company.

Hey Ed,

Thanks for the response.  In reply, I assure you, and the regulars here, that I have no intention of making a personal attack on you.  On the contrary, it was your accurate and honest estimation of living costs that caused me to write, because your figures are so far off from International Living's claims.

It's great you've challenged some of their misinformation and got them to remove it, but they've still got a lot of it out there.  That $800 monthly living figure is all over the Internet, and in articles published this year, 2012.  Your description of those living in Cuenca on less than $1000 monthly was so bleak - so poor you have to cut your own hair in a country where a haircut costs two dollars - that you have to wonder if an $800 budget even includes indoor plumbing.

In my opinion, International Living is not the selfless, helpful how-to magazine for potential expats they make themselves out to be, it is a real estate company.  There's nothing wrong with that, but they need to say so, clearly and up front, and their advertising should be more accurate and ethical.

Again, my criticisms are for International Living, not you.

Best regards,

John

International Living has revised it's cost of living estimate for Ecuador twice in the last two weeks.  On the 4th, I got an IL Postcard saying, "less than $900 a month, excluding rent."  Yesterday, an IL article on Huffington Post said, "$1600 a month, including rent."  I think these estimates, especially the second one, are much more realistic than their previous ones, and that's great, because people desperate to survive on Social Security or small pensions need accurate information to plan a retirement overseas.

There are still a couple of things to be concerned about.  For one, both estimates were for Ecuador as a whole, not urban areas like Cuenca that cater to gringos, which are more expensive.  For another, prices are either going through the roof or somebody is making wild guesses, because just two years ago, International Living's cost of living estimate was $600, and, if memory serves, that included a maid and gardener.

A few days ago, I received an IL Postcard that cemented my opinion of International Living.  They're selling software and information packages so you can "Make money by teaching English to Ecuadoreans, even if you don't speak Spanish" and "Earn $50 an hour or more by doing Internet searches for authors."

Caveat emptor!

Yes, housing and construction prices are increasing. It is normal in a country that can all of the sudden barely catch up with the spike on housing demand. Gas continues to be the same, as well as food (with few veggie exceptions) transportation, good quality healthcare and medication.
Re housing prices some areas are showing increases more than others, especially in the areas with the highest Expat population There are still small towns where good prices can be found but it is important to make sure that infrastructure is of reasonable standards. Its life... there are advantages in moving out of the comfort zone and thinking out of the box

As regards InternationalLiving -- they are a business, and they make their money by selling things related to expatriation. The info they give away is intended to whet the appetite of potential expats. They will not provide info that discourages people from moving overseas -- that would be counter-productive.

This is not to say that there is anything wrong with what they are doing, nor that visiting their site is a waste of time (I've found good stuff there). But one should read their info with an awareness of what the site's biases are.

Which is a good idea in reading any info on any subject from any source.

LeftClique, since you have such problems with IL I'm amazed you continue receiving, reading, and listening to our notifications. It's kinda like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer and complaining of headaches.

I cannot speak to the information from years ago, but I can assure you that I and the other writers are making every effort to share accurate information with our readers. Sometimes an article is inadvertently reprinted from the past without updating, so perhaps that's where you've seen these low figures.

It's a myth that IL sells real estate. IL is a publication company that has served hundreds of thousands of subscribers since the 70's. Their long-term success needs no further defense.

Well said my friend!

If if weren't for IL I would not have become interested in Ecuador. I had not even thought of Ecuador as a potential retirement location but seeing several of IL postings and ads caught my eye and stimulated my interest and now I'm reading everything I can on the subject. I am planning a trip there next month with the hope of moving there if things work out well.

Ed,

I don't have anything more to say about International Living, except that I think you're too good a man to work for them.

best regards,

John

Most people here hit the nail on the head.  IL is a tool to help guide you on where to look.  Edd, I have read your articles with great interest and then do my own research.  I have a disposable income of $3000 a month and think that I can live in MY comfort zone on that. I know that many do not have that amount so I agree that it depends on how you want to live.  Great posts on this site.

To spend $3000 a month your lifestyle would have to be incredibly extravagant. Thanks for the kind words.

Soooo, are we done comparing Cuenca to Loja?