Elec. bill:Corrupted citizens fuel a corrupted system that rips us off

Hi, a somewhat forceful argument but one that is very relevant and topical.
I am following all this with interest as we are moving to live on Gozo or Malta. Thanks.

The bill can still belong to the landlord with you and your family named as registered consumers on HIS account, as long as you currently have the right docs...no problem as long as the landlord permits it and he is happy to run the risk of being "exposed" if he is not declaring tax - many landlords are ok with it - you just have to find them - if he is not prepared to do it then walk away and find one that is - if their is doubt about the tarrif that can be applied on the property ask to see a recent bill - if thats refused too then walk away....IF IN DOUBT WALK OUT. SIMPLE REALLY

i have an A card and res cert and i have the right landlord who does things the right way....and no problem with my bills at all.....altho i did have a prblem having moved three times having to prove my resident status each time... I do understand that there are some legality issues on residency and discrimination etc etc etc etc and weve been through all that on other threads.

Good luck

toonarmy9752 wrote:

The bill can still belong to the landlord with you and your family named as registered consumers on HIS account,..

Thank you for this. I am sure you will agree
however that this is a pointless exercise. Why would a landlord would prefer to keep his residence bill with your family declared in while he could transfer the bill to you?

Could you please explain what is your status? Do you have Residential Tarrif under your name and you Have an A card? Or does your landlord has your family under his residential tariff?

I have an A card, and pay the lower rates. Do you have a residency certificate, as that is what proves you are a resident of Malta, not having an ID card

georgeingozo wrote:

I have an A card, and pay the lower rates. Do you have a residency certificate, as that is what proves you are a resident of Malta, not having an ID card

Exactly my point. Yes the residency certificate is about to be issued. But please be more precise, is the bill under your name or like toonarmy9752 implied, it is and can be under your landlord name?

Thanks

I see you are working here. In that case getting your residency certificate is very simple (plus its a legal obligation)

It can be either under your name or the landlords name and still get the lower rates. In my case I'm an owner occupier, but I know loads of foreigners who rent and get the lower rates - in most cases the bill is in the landlords name, but they are registered as tenants with ARMS

georgeingozo wrote:

It can be either under your name or the landlords name and still get the lower rates. In my case I'm an owner occupier, but I know loads of foreigners who rent and get the lower rates - in most cases the bill is in the landlords name, but they are registered as tenants with ARMS

Exactly my point... So going back to the initial post, most of the agents/landlords I met before I moved here had no clue(?) about this. They were mostly bubbling something about "need and ID, then need ID with a non A status, you are not Malteese, give me 150 more per month and we will work it out on the way". Then after a few months if you mention anything about ARMS they get into "stroke" mode....

One reason why websites like this are so valuable - knowledge is power

georgeingozo wrote:

One reason why websites like this are so valuable - knowledge is power

However this knowledge comes too late for some people. My friend yesterday was hit with a 6000 euros bill after 18 months in Malta. Me after 3 months I am considering very carefully if it worth at all prolonging my staying at all...

janagn wrote:

georgeingozo wrote:

One reason why websites like this are so valuable - knowledge is power

My friend yesterday was hit with a 6000 euros bill after 18 months in Malta.

What was he running on his electricity!!!!!!
Did he not check his bills monthly?

Caveat Emptor.

redmik wrote:

janagn wrote:

georgeingozo wrote:

One reason why websites like this are so valuable - knowledge is power

My friend yesterday was hit with a 6000 euros bill after 18 months in Malta.

What was he running on his electricity!!!!!!
Did he not check his bills monthly?

Caveat Emptor.

You are missing the point my friend. We are talking here about highly skilled people who have kids and families, that are working long hours and have not the time of a retired person to go through KWh and calculations. We are talking about people that have no time even to go through forums. People that just arrived here from a more organized place  and took for granted what the smiley agent/landlord told them. For example, with £120 in UK you have electricity and gas and you are in credit around £50 - £100 usually by the end of the year. When you arrive here and the landlord tell you that 150 euros are adequate then you don't get any update for 18 months you assume that IT IS ADEQUATE. I know that this is not an excuse BUT it is the sad reality. If my friend hadn't been hit by the 6K then I wouldn't be here since last night inquiring and most probably would be in the same .... maybe 5 or 10 months later. So let's not be harsh to ignorance as it is less evil than deception.

To answer your question, his mistake was that he has a wife that is not working and they were advised to buy Electrical radiators to warm the house. His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue that 2.1KW * 4 radiators * 10 hours = 84KWh per day! * 30 = 2520 KWh per month * 7 months (out of the 18) = 17640KWH! * 0.17cent (minimum) = 3000 euros.

I assume that since she was cooking and bathing the kids often, the 6000 including the summer a/c is not an out of question number for 18 months.

Kind Regards
Yiannis

janagn wrote:

redmik wrote:

janagn wrote:

My friend yesterday was hit with a 6000 euros bill after 18 months in Malta.

What was he running on his electricity!!!!!!
Did he not check his bills monthly?

Caveat Emptor.

You are missing the point my friend. We are talking here about highly skilled people who have kids and families, that are working long hours and have not the time of a retired person to go through KWh and calculations. We are talking about people that have no time even to go through forums. People that just arrived here from a more organized place  and took for granted what the smiley agent/landlord told them. For example, with £120 in UK you have electricity and gas and you are in credit around £50 - £100 usually by the end of the year. When you arrive here and the landlord tell you that 150 euros are adequate then you don't get any update for 18 months you assume that IT IS ADEQUATE. I know that this is not an excuse BUT it is the sad reality. If my friend hadn't been hit by the 6K then I wouldn't be here since last night inquiring and most probably would be in the same .... maybe 5 or 10 months later. So let's not be harsh to ignorance as it is less evil than deception.

To answer your question, his mistake was that he has a wife that is not working and they were advised to buy Electrical radiators to warm the house. His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue that 2.1KW * 4 radiators * 10 hours = 84KWh per day! * 30 = 2520 KWh per month * 7 months (out of the 18) = 17640KWH! * 0.17cent (minimum) = 3000 euros.

I assume that since she was cooking and bathing the kids often, the 6000 including the summer a/c is not an out of question number for 18 months.

Kind Regards
Yiannis

A bit patronising I think, especially to how pensioners spend their time(many who are highly skilled and intelligent)and wives who do not work outside the home and if your friend was so skilled, I would have thought that he would have made the time to check.
No need to check on forums; check the bills and if receiving none, get them.
I have not missed the point at all.
It's about planning and checking what one uses, not making assumptions especially that when one lives in a new other country one assumes it is as it was before!
As I said, Caveat Emptor.

redmik wrote:

A bit patronising I think,

Not at all, didn't imply anything else other than limited time and extreme work load.... sorry that you took it like this

Many people when they move overseas forget that "overseas is different", and need to spend time finding out how different. Some differences are better, some worse, some just different.

That is my point. Assume nothing and be prepared to learn.
The person with the bill has my sympathy, to a degree, but many have stressful work and workloads and I would have thought it fundamental to monitor one's bills etc.

An old service saying is remember the 6 P's......

Prior Planning Prevents Pi** Poor Performance.

However, I do expect to come 'unstuck' now and again, despite the research etc. and that can happen to anyone.
Because it's different

janagn wrote:

[ His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue that 2.1KW * 4 radiators * 10 hours = 84KWh per day! * 30 = 2520 KWh per month * 7 months (out of the 18) = 17640KWH! * 0.17cent (minimum) = 3000 euros.

if she was ignorant of this in Malta, she would have been equally ignorant of it in the UK.

georgeingozo wrote:

janagn wrote:

[ His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue that 2.1KW * 4 radiators * 10 hours = 84KWh per day! * 30 = 2520 KWh per month * 7 months (out of the 18) = 17640KWH! * 0.17cent (minimum) = 3000 euros.

if she was ignorant of this in Malta, she would have been equally ignorant of it in the UK.

You are right but she never needed to find out about it as it was not 0.17 for heating and the housing is energy efficient (more than here). Anyway let's not loose focus. The point is that it is not only ignorance but misinformation regarding this whole trail of Malta IDs, IDs with A or not A, residential certificates etc. My landlord for example a few minute ago didn't even  want to consider(?) to register me under his bill with my family because he was repeating that I am not Maltese and only Maltese can do this... The only reason that I insisted is because someone has to pay 6K next week...

.........if she was ignorant of this in Malta, she would have been equally ignorant of it in the UK.


OK, going off topic here and one should not condemn ignorance but why put the emphasis/responsibility on her?

quite right

........if they were ignorant of this in Malta, they would have been equally ignorant of it in the UK.

georgeingozo wrote:

quite right

........if they were ignorant of this in Malta, they would have been equally ignorant of it in the UK.

As i said, you don't notice it in UK as it is not 0.17 per KWh and the houses are more energy efficient.

"As i said, you don't notice it in UK as it is not 0.17 per KWh" - I thought the cost of electricity in the UK was very close to this ?

georgeingozo wrote:

"As i said, you don't notice it in UK as it is not 0.17 per KWh" - I thought the cost of electricity in the UK was very close to this ?

Depends on the tariff, how much gas you are using, the houses are more energy efficient because of the cold weather. The combined bill hardly goes more than £150 per month and that provides you a steady 23 - 24 degrees temp. Be careful also as sometimes the newspapers reports the highest nominal price that nobody pays.

Also, don't forget that here you need a/c during summer while in UK usually after May you don't need anything at all till September or October. Again the energy efficiency of the house plays the greatest role here as a UK house is warmer than outside during Summer which look like the winter here, while here the house is colder inside then outside.

" The combined bill hardly goes more than £150 per month" - mine in Gozo averages far less than that.

georgeingozo wrote:

" The combined bill hardly goes more than £150 per month" - mine in Gozo averages far less than that.

I think this is the most valuable feedback in today's discussion because it touches the essence of living conditions and an individuals' acceptance standards. So, if we exclude the difference in salaries (which might not be a good idea), I take it that you are keeping a warm house during December, Jan, Feb and Middle of March and then you use a/c for 3 more months? Is this a fair assumption? And which temperature you consider the threshold that forces you to switch on heating/cooling? Do you run dehumidifiers? What I mean is that for example the past 3 weeks have render my house a very cold place... but this might jut be me...

We use aircon for at most a month a year, and run dehumidifiers on low all year round.In the winter a combination of aircon heater and gas heaters.

A big part of it is choosing the right house/apartment - penthouse apartments mean much higher bills

choose an apartment on a mid level, facing south, with neighbouring flats occupied v penthouse, facing north with no properties adjacent, and the bill could easily double for the latter v former

georgeingozo wrote:

We use aircon for at most a month a year, and run dehumidifiers on low all year round.In the winter a combination of aircon heater and gas heaters.

A big part of it is choosing the right house/apartment - penthouse apartments mean much higher bills

I find that interesting. I would have thought that being, generally, newer, the costs would have been lower.
Thanks for that, it will affect our decision as to what type of place we take.

I am also of the belief that aircon can prevent acclimatisation and cause health problems rather than allowing one's body to get used to the temperature ranges. (And I'm not just talking about the Malta islands here.)

What's 'wrong' with a wife checking utility bills! The days of the 'little woman' not being capable went out in the last century...... Have always been aware of our monthly usage, particularly in cold weather even while having a 'high powered' job with long hours. It seems to me that there are people that check what they spend and others that don't. If they haven't kept tabs on it then it doesn't become someone else's 'fault. I don't buy that rationale

by penthouse I mean top floor, and comparing to other floors in the same building, so same age

rooikat wrote:

What's 'wrong' with a wife checking utility bills! The days of the 'little woman' not being capable went out in the last century...... Have always been aware of our monthly usage, particularly in cold weather even while having a 'high powered' job with long hours. It seems to me that there are people that check what they spend and others that don't. If they haven't kept tabs on it then it doesn't become someone else's 'fault. I don't buy that rationale

I totally agree and that was one of my points.

redmik wrote:

I am also of the belief that aircon can prevent acclimatisation and cause health problems rather than allowing one's body to get used to the temperature ranges. (And I'm not just talking about the Malta islands here.)

I agree, I don't like aircon. From living in HK I've seen it leads to more colds etc

rooikat wrote:

What's 'wrong' with a wife checking utility bills!

as long as someone does, thats the point :-)

If nobody does, then its their lookout. Personal responsibility

rooikat wrote:

What's 'wrong' with a wife checking utility bills! The days of the 'little woman' not being capable went out in the last century...... Have always been aware of our monthly usage, particularly in cold weather even while having a 'high powered' job with long hours. It seems to me that there are people that check what they spend and others that don't. If they haven't kept tabs on it then it doesn't become someone else's 'fault. I don't buy that rationale

I am not running a feminism class here. What I said is that SHE WAS NOT USED, SHE DIDN'T CHECK. Also any mention on not working woman does not touch anything more than the fact that the house is in use 24/7 and not empty 8 hour per day as in my case that we get our heat or cool air from the corporate A/Cs. So, let's keep the topic where it should be.

georgeingozo wrote:

We use aircon for at most a month a year, and run dehumidifiers on low all year round.In the winter a combination of aircon heater and gas heaters.

The problem with this is that you don't account for the 20+ euros each bottle of gas lasts. So your winter bill might be more than 100.

Finally I think there is an other issue. I am afraid that the ARMS deal refers only to Domestic Tarrifs

A consumer may request ARMS Customer Care to register individuals resident in Malta, on a Domestic Premises Service and if the Corporation accepts such a request, the Service shall be considered, until at least one individual is registered on the Service, as a Residential premises Service: Provided that no one individual shall be registered on more then one Service at the same time and that no individual will be registered on a garage or on the common parts of a condominium.

In that scenario the 25% discount for the first 1000KWh of the 1750 allowance per person applies to to 0.20 and not to the 0.16 of the residential tariff. Correct?

I am not running a feminism class here. What I said is that SHE WAS NOT USED, SHE DIDN'T CHECK. Also any mention on not working woman does not touch anything more than the fact that the house is in use 24/7 and not empty 8 hour per day as in my case that we get our heat or cool air from the corporate A/Cs. So, let's keep the topic where it should be.

  So what did '' His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue'' refer to!
Patronising or what!!

"The problem with this is that you don't account for the 20+ euros each bottle of gas lasts. " I did

janagn - calm down, I am entitled to respond to a post in the way I interpret it, please don't become patronising, again!

In rough terms, we use 12 units a day on av = € 750 ish, plus 20 gas bottles a year = € 300 = € 1150 - call it € 100 a month = about £ 85 a month