Life of a woman in riyadh

I can only answer from an Islamic perspective  sorry, but hope it helps

1:no. Muslim women socialise with women and men with men. Mixed congregations are islamically discouraged.

2-  a family shares the same home environment, cook, clean, play games, educate kids / each other and generally relax.

3- how else would they procreate? The whole point of marriage is so the couple enjoy each others company.

4- yes a woman can walk freely so long as she is dressed appropriate in front of men that are not from her close family (father, brothers, immediate uncles, grandad, husband, sons, husbands father, breastfed relations). In front of other men she has to cover her body accordingly.

5-  no restrictions on colour  of clothing for women. However when out of the house a woman should not attract attention and should blend with the crowd. Women in Malaysia generally wear a white hijaab so wearing black might make you stick out there. A woman out of the house has to be covered islamically, that's the most important thing colours are secondary.

6-  islamically wearing high heels are discouraged on account of them making a woman walk more provocatively, buttocks stuck out and hips swaying exentuating her curves. Furthermore wearing heels can lead to health problems and are discouraged. Having said that if you wear them in the house for the pleasure of your husband and your not causing yourself health risks through prolonged use hmmmm I don't know but I would think it ok.

thank you for explanation, Btwn-Fear-N-Hope

the most surprising and astonishing question is # 3...........

I guess in western society a couple could simply be courting and not married. As a Muslim I automatically translate couple to mean married.

So
If the couple are not married they can't live in the same house, date outside, or sleep together anywhere.

Her second sentence did say *wife* so I thought it was fairly obvious she is married.

Rizwan2000. Here not West as people talk a lot about KSA ok! 

So don't judge, because I believe, that you must hear speak many things about the West that are not truths. The media tricks too.

1. So, this question of the husband and the wife are sleeping together, here in the West say that Saudi men, lies just to the sexual act and then going to sleep in another room.

2. Here hear talk about exist two rooms , one for women and one for men. Here in the West we share the same familiar environment without being a shame.

3. Another curiosity, if women and men cannot share the same environment. Meals the husband and wife do not share of breakfast, lunch, dinner. Or this separation exists only when there are guests.

Yep Alliecat I did say wife.


Thank you for the clarification, God bless you Btwn-Fear-N-Hope.

Your very welcome and god bless you too.

Separation only exists if there are men who are not related to the woman, guests. A married couple in Islam are considered to be closer than a garment to each other. A husband becomes even closer to his wife than any member of her family. If you think about it, your husband knows you intimately and should a relative walk in while your undressed your husband is the one that helps cover you.

I don't think that a practicing Saudi man who follows Islam correctly would abandon his wife's bed without there being a just cause. Leaving a wife's bed is something men do to show dissatisfaction in the relationship. Like in the west when a couple fall out, the man sleeps on the sofa.


There is no shame in the close family unit sharing the same environment what is considered shameful is when a husband brings his males friends round the house and requests his wife to entertain them. The wife would usually cook for her husbands guests, she would say Salam and then do her own thing  while her husband entertains his friends. Likewise if the wife has guests the husband usually does the shopping, he greets the friend if their paths cross and he leaves the house so the wife can catchup and entertain her friends.

Allie, lol thanks I missed that part.

I just wanna add something... Saudi Arabia's way isnt 100% Islamic way.. Seriously.. In Quran it isnt mentioned to hide your whole face, it just says that you have to cover your hair with a little part of your forehead (the Naqa'b, just like nuns lol)... and things like suppressing woman's rights like not letting them drive etc, that's not Islam.

Well ANYHOW, now-a-days nobody says much anyway, you can go out in malls not covering your head *but wearing the Ab'ya tho*

And whats that about heels? This is the first I've heard of this lol.. you can wear heels no one cares.

So Expat women married to a Saudi man then can use high heel. Because the high heels valorize the body and draws attention.

Thank you  Dan for your contribution.

As i've said this was the first time I ever heard of heels being a bad thing, I mean come on, every girl I know wears heels, even Saudi and expats o:

Dan_the_13th wrote:

As i've said this was the first time I ever heard of heels being a bad thing, I mean come on, every girl I know wears heels, even Saudi and expats o:

Lots of bad Saudi girls wearing heels and ruining their health then!

:-)

this is all EXTREMELY social based and not really islam based.

Just look at other cultures where women dont even wear abayas but just appropriate clothing.

The real title of this should be:

What is the life of a woman who wants to conform to Saudi Arabias ideals of the strictest side of islam.

Lets get that out there in the open

dan, im sure you know islam is not based solely on the quran but also on studying the life, actions, recommendation/disapproval of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).

sure i agree there are somethings like the ban on women driving which are exclusive to saudi, however from the issues raised which i discussed - and i made clear i wasnt looking at saudi culture but an islamic perspective - tell me which part is not from islam.

high heels? well first you need to know that in islam anything which harms your health can be illegal. the harms of wearing heels you can find on here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic … nches.html

thats a british news paper article - no islamic bias.

as for the way heels make you walk - provocatively, tell me you disagree with it before i carry on.

smoking.


the only word that needs to tell you everything in Saudi Arabia is null and void on those basis.

And http://www.besthealthmag.ca/look-great/ … our-health

Lets not be biased now. this article shows good AND bad.

"They give shape to your calf muscles and elongate the look of legs to make you appear longer and leaner."

about the only benefit mentioned and i hardly call that a benefit when weighed against the list of health risks

and pelvic floor

health RISKS are not concrete.
I personally know women including my wife, that wear 4+ inch heels on a daily basis, and have no health risks, and can outperform me in running and other activities.


Shall i list all the items california says causes cancer and turn your argument against you? Im sure you consume or use a large number of the items as does other.

As for saudi, they are a country and a people who sin like everyone else... if some smoke so does half the world, no1 said suadi was a gleaming example of islam!

rather than look at cultures and people, i as a muslim choose to look at the evidence found in the quran and the hadiths... now if you are interested we can have a discussion based on evidence, otherwise its argument for arguments sake which tbh i view as pointless.


i'm not the expert on heels and health, i merely gave an answer to a question based on islamic answers previously given by scholars. you can disagree and down saudi 'version' of islam, however the lady specifically asked for islam and saudi culture.

Btwn-Fear-N-Hope wrote:

Your very welcome and god bless you too.

Separation only exists if there are men who are not related to the woman, guests. A married couple in Islam are considered to be closer than a garment to each other. A husband becomes even closer to his wife than any member of her family. If you think about it, your husband knows you intimately and should a relative walk in while your undressed your husband is the one that helps cover you.

I don't think that a practicing Saudi man who follows Islam correctly would abandon his wife's bed without there being a just cause. Leaving a wife's bed is something men do to show dissatisfaction in the relationship. Like in the west when a couple fall out, the man sleeps on the sofa.


There is no shame in the close family unit sharing the same environment what is considered shameful is when a husband brings his males friends round the house and requests his wife to entertain them. The wife would usually cook for her husbands guests, she would say Salam and then do her own thing  while her husband entertains his friends. Likewise if the wife has guests the husband usually does the shopping, he greets the friend if their paths cross and he leaves the house so the wife can catchup and entertain her friends.

Is this not dependent on the number of wives the Saudi husband has? If he has more than one he will not share the matrimonial bed with all at the same time so will leave one and move to another. As he has to treat all his wives equally.

In all other aspects there is very little difference between the way the west and the family here behave. If my wife wants a girly night in then I will not disturb them unless invited. Saudi families all eat at the same table so to speak as do western families.

The differences between here and the west are minimal just some appear more stark and noticeable.

fair enough, since you do not wish to get into specifics and dialogue with evidence may i please request that you refrain from lightening islamic points with statements like this:

Freshlikesushi wrote:

this is all EXTREMELY social based and not really islam based.

Why. it was the truth.

Martin Fin wrote:

Btwn-Fear-N-Hope wrote:

Your very welcome and god bless you too.

Separation only exists if there are men who are not related to the woman, guests. A married couple in Islam are considered to be closer than a garment to each other. A husband becomes even closer to his wife than any member of her family. If you think about it, your husband knows you intimately and should a relative walk in while your undressed your husband is the one that helps cover you.

I don't think that a practicing Saudi man who follows Islam correctly would abandon his wife's bed without there being a just cause. Leaving a wife's bed is something men do to show dissatisfaction in the relationship. Like in the west when a couple fall out, the man sleeps on the sofa.


There is no shame in the close family unit sharing the same environment what is considered shameful is when a husband brings his males friends round the house and requests his wife to entertain them. The wife would usually cook for her husbands guests, she would say Salam and then do her own thing  while her husband entertains his friends. Likewise if the wife has guests the husband usually does the shopping, he greets the friend if their paths cross and he leaves the house so the wife can catchup and entertain her friends.

Is this not dependent on the number of wives the Saudi husband has? If he has more than one he will not share the matrimonial bed with all at the same time so will leave one and move to another. As he has to treat all his wives equally.

In all other aspects there is very little difference between the way the west and the family here behave. If my wife wants a girly night in then I will not disturb them unless invited. Saudi families all eat at the same table so to speak as do western families.

The differences between here and the west are minimal just some appear more stark and noticeable.

your right about the polygamous marriage, thanks!

Btwn-Fear-N-Hope wrote:

As for saudi, they are a country and a people who sin like everyone else... if some smoke so does half the world, no1 said suadi was a gleaming example of islam!

rather than look at cultures and people, i as a muslim choose to look at the evidence found in the quran and the hadiths... now if you are interested we can have a discussion based on evidence, otherwise its argument for arguments sake which tbh i view as pointless.


i'm not the expert on heels and health, i merely gave an answer to a question based on islamic answers previously given by scholars. you can disagree and down saudi 'version' of islam, however the lady specifically asked for islam and saudi culture.

But my fiend you are in the UK and not here in Saudi so where is your authority to speak as a Saudi Muslim, surely this is your academic view of how things are?

O

fls, from my answers to the OP, what was social based and had no islamic beaaring oh wise one?

Martin Fin wrote:

Btwn-Fear-N-Hope wrote:

As for saudi, they are a country and a people who sin like everyone else... if some smoke so does half the world, no1 said suadi was a gleaming example of islam!

rather than look at cultures and people, i as a muslim choose to look at the evidence found in the quran and the hadiths... now if you are interested we can have a discussion based on evidence, otherwise its argument for arguments sake which tbh i view as pointless.


i'm not the expert on heels and health, i merely gave an answer to a question based on islamic answers previously given by scholars. you can disagree and down saudi 'version' of islam, however the lady specifically asked for islam and saudi culture.

But my fiend you are in the UK and not here in Saudi so where is your authority to speak as a Saudi Muslim, surely this is your academic view of how things are?

O

if you read my original answer i made it clear i spoke from an islamic perspective and not a saudi one...

if your refering to my comments on saudis sinning, this is based on islam, because no human is perfect, nor can an entire nation be perfect.

Some of the responses yes.

based on social practices of Saudi arabia.
Ive had this same discussion with many of my coworkers and they agree.  Saudi arabia is on the EXTREME end of islamic practices.

Anyone that has been in other areas of the world agrees that is saudi.

Sinning is something that HAPPENS

not something you choose to do over and over and over such as smoking.
There is a difference between a choice and a sin.

ill be back this evening to carry on this discussion. ta ta for now

I am bored with this pointless argument Bye!

Hi everyone, to note that Expat.com is a platform for exchange,  please avoid arguing.

Thanks,
Harmonie.

I'm sorry Harmonie..

@fear-N

Who are you to give out such pointless fatwas? Wearing heels is not provocative, perhaps its just your messed up mind. The health issues are so less that their negligible...  Saudi Arabia is on the extreme, you can take example of how Iran follows the basic principal of Islam.

p.s I'm not Shia.

EDIT: one more thing..

Btwn-Fear-N-Hope wrote:

1:no. Muslim women socialise with women and men with men. Mixed congregations are islamically discouraged.

That isn't the Islamic way. Women in Islam are allowed to socialize with men, do trade by themselves and even mix out in the open, with Hijab.

So you should have added 'in Saudi'.

Hey guys, at no time I spoke about health (on the issue of high heels) I'm here to raise the issue of clothing, costumes and how is the day-day of a woman married to a Saudi man. Be it expatriate Saudi Arabia or converted to Islam. I want as of  information as of day-by-day, since it is a very strict country. Because they are religious Muslims who decide everything within the country. You see I live in Brazil, a country where there is democracy, namely, the churches and religion does not command the public life.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions. Salaam

Who are you to give out such pointless fatwas? Wearing heels is not provocative, perhaps its just your messed up mind. The health issues are so less that their negligible...  Saudi Arabia is on the extreme, you can take example of how Iran follows the basic principal of Islam.

p.s I'm not Shia.

EDIT: one more thing..

    Btwn-Fear-N-Hope wrote:

    1:no. Muslim women socialise with women and men with men. Mixed congregations are islamically discouraged.

That isn't the Islamic way. Women in Islam are allowed to socialize with men, do trade by themselves and even mix out in the open, with Hijab.

So you should have added 'in Saudi'.

Hi Dan,You see I asked for information directed to the KSA. At no time I did talked about Islam. Because we know that in Islam women can work and study and participate in communion with men, everything is permitted with modesty, prudence, guard, modesty. But we know that in ARABIA LAW diverts to stricter us commandments other Arab countries. I study Islam, but the questions are about the Country Saudi Arabia and NOT the Islam, Because we know that some interpretations are extremists in KSA, compared to other Arab countries.
I'm not criticizing I am adding my comment because been diverted the subject of this topic.

Dan_the_13th wrote:

I'm sorry Harmonie..

@fear-N

Who are you to give out such pointless fatwas? Wearing heels is not provocative, perhaps its just your messed up mind. The health issues are so less that their negligible...  Saudi Arabia is on the extreme, you can take example of how Iran follows the basic principal of Islam.

fatwa from a sufi site on high heel: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index … &Id=113276
conclusion? a woman should not wear them except in front of her husband or when being in company of women only

fatwa from a shia site http://www.askthesheikh.com/are-women-a … ing-noise/

"anything which draws attention to a woman's beauty should be avoided" and "if wearing high heels (that is seen as higher than what ladies normally wear) draws attention and reveals some hidden parts of a woman's body, it should be avoided."

personally i would say making your ass stick out and hips sway is showing off parts of your body that would otherwise be less obvious.

and from salafi site: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/26215

all this proves that it is not an islamic ruling which is exclusive to saudi arabia or even one sect within islam. and I do not issue fatwas im not qualified- as i said before i was merely sharing my ideas from an islamic perspective.

Btwn-Fear-N-Hope wrote:

1:no. Muslim women socialise with women and men with men. Mixed congregations are islamically discouraged.
That isn't the Islamic way. Women in Islam are allowed to socialize with men, do trade by themselves and even mix out in the open, with Hijab.

So you should have added 'in Saudi'.

please make a distinction between trade/necessary contact and socialising which is done for pleasure, and then please show me one example within prophetic narrations in which women from the companions chilled-out (socialised) with men from the companions- bearing in mind the starter of the thread was asking if a muslim woman can socialise with her husbands friends.


shia site on free mixing (socialising) http://www.world-federation.org/Secreta … munity.htm

sufi site on free mixing: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index … d&Id=87310

and salafi site on free mixing : http://islamqa.info/en/ref/158651/free%20mixing

still only a saudi issue???

Harmonie wrote:

Hi everyone, to note that Expat.com is a platform for exchange,  please avoid arguing.

Thanks,
Harmonie.

im sorry if my posts come across as argumentative i was aiming at being informative and inviting discussion by requesting we have a meaningful dialogue based on evidence, i was not angry at any point and was enjoying the exchange of knowledge and ideas.

@Fear-N
I thought you would have been more open minded since you were not originally from Saudi but your posts show otherwise.. These fatwas aren't from any major Imam's... I don't wanna discuss this any further.

@m.b.m88
Yeah..I'm sorry for starting a debate, but as far as your question goes. You can wear heels here with no problem.. If there was a problem with heels you coudn't buy them easily anyway, heels are everywhere! You can get cool looking leather boots with heel on T-Shoes or LULU for like 100 Riyals

EDIT: I'll answer some more questions of urs.

m.b.m88 wrote:

Salaam,
How is the life of a Muslim wife, middle class or upper middle class?

that depends on the $$$ u have

m.b.m88 wrote:

1. they can hang out with friends, as also Westerners does?

Yes they can, the best spots are restaurants (mcdolands? lol but assaraya!) and parks like Nadah,Nasira and I can't remember the third's name but its near Malik Fahad's library and Talih'ya st.

m.b.m88 wrote:

2. they can make dinners at home and share the same the home environment?

Yeah, why not?

m.b.m88 wrote:

4. women can walk freely inside the house when the husband receives a visit from his friends?

If your husband doesn't mind, and why would he? Its your home!

m.b.m88 wrote:

5. It allowed colored clothes?

Yeah it is, although if you go outside everyone will stare you like crazy so it would be better to wear the dull ol' black aba'ya

But one last thing, it depends on the openness of your husband tho, so you should ask some of these questions to him first.

I thought you would have been more open minded since you were not originally from Saudi but your posts show otherwise

Dan, please avoid this kind of unpleasant comment. Personal attacks are not appreciated on Expat.com. This kind of remark doesn't help anyone. This is our last warning.

BTW guys, I guess this is a thread for women. I may be wrong but shouldn't men stay apart from this thread ?

Thank you  Julien!

I don't know if it's just for women, I guess men can speak of their observations and a lot of questions are base on Islam and Saudi culture- general knowledge?


Thanks again!

I'd advise the questioner to ask the sisters these questions on the other forum dedicated for new or revert muslims.
Or ask the students of Shaykh saleh as fawzaan in riyadh.