Safety

Fair point.

Libya is a safe place, unfortunately though common sense ain't so common. People forget where they are and get into bother, particularly the younger folk who do not dress and act appropriately.
Yup, there is crime but show me a country that doesn't have crime and yup, it would appear to be on the increase. Again, show me a country that it isn't.
Simple rules apply to living within the Arab world, if you can't accept it, go home.
Robberies happen everywhere. Act like you are in Rome, London, New York when shopping and you won't get mugged.
Car accidents, yup, you go to jail until there is settlement. Your employer hasn't warned you of the rules, that isn't Libya's fault. The same rule applies to the locals. I know plenty of folk who have been locked up over the years.

The place ain't perfect but it is better than most.

Good job Laurieloo!! 

The harrassment of expat women happens in other countries too.  I lived in Honduras fro six years and had to deal with it.  Felt like living in a fishbowl everytime I'd walk outside somebody would ahve something to say.  I either ignored it or on occassion would snap at them in spanish.  Here, less Arabic at my disposal.  Yeah, imshee would work.  Imshee josh (donkey) would too.  But I'd hate to encourage conversation with the jerks! 

Are you allowed to react with 'reasonable force' if confronted with a dangerous situation I only ask because if someone groped my wife here in Scotland I would drop him flat on his arse

It's all about keeping a low profile if you want to keep out of trouble in these parts.  Don't draw attention to yourself - as in don't drop kick people in the streets .  Serenity now!  They won't do it if you are there anyways, they reserve it for us ladies out on our own, (aren't we lucky??).

laurieloo82 wrote:

It's all about keeping a low profile if you want to keep out of trouble in these parts.  Don't draw attention to yourself - as in don't drop kick people in the streets .  Serenity now!  They won't do it if you are there anyways, they reserve it for us ladies out on our own, (aren't we lucky??).

Ah bugger, I was looking forward to that bit Cheers for all your advice.

Kudos to LL for a very informative post...

Fortunately in Libya, firearms (in the wrong hands) are much less common than in other parts of Africa.

But conversely, the standard of driving and general road safety are easily the worst I've ever experienced.

and here is what I have to say. This has recently got driving me mad, and I want to talk about it. It can be related to general safety too.

I HATE MY BABY BEING TOUCHED AND KISSED IN THE STREET BY "FRIENDLY" LOCALS!!! Guys, I perfectly well realize that they mean nothing but good and want to show friendly, but just can't help it. And the girl, at that, does not feel ok with it too. She really gets scared and annoyed. What do you do with it?

Agree with Lauriloo that I, a grown-up woman, can ignore the hissing and kissing and "I-want-wife-like-you"/"f-ck-you"/"love-you"/ etc. as long as I am not being touched. But they stretch their hands to my baby!!! and snap the fingers at her little nose!!! I try to avoid and prevent the situations but there are cases (and many ) when you just cannot control five or more people around. On the other hand, I cannot stay home with the baby, she needs to go outside and she can and is to walk, besides I just can't carry her any more as I used to do as she grew up now and is rather heavy...

I have been to Tunisia and discovered that they don't necessarily grab a stranger's child in the street and kiss the baby. Before that I used to believe that this was the general way of the Arabic countries but now I think it is not.

So far I try to take their hands away with a smile and "please, no", but have the strong desire to stop and snap my fingers into the face of the "good man"... When my baby is taken to hands against my will I feel so helpless and outraged...

Any word like "imshee" for this case?

Palachakh wrote:

and here is what I have to say. This has recently got driving me mad, and I want to talk about it. It can be related to general safety too.

I HATE MY BABY BEING TOUCHED AND KISSED IN THE STREET BY "FRIENDLY" LOCALS!!! Guys, I perfectly well realize that they mean nothing but good and want to show friendly, but just can't help it. And the girl, at that, does not feel ok with it too. She really gets scared and annoyed. What do you do with it?

Agree with Lauriloo that I, a grown-up woman, can ignore the hissing and kissing and "I-want-wife-like-you"/"f-ck-you"/"love-you"/ etc. as long as I am not being touched. But they stretch their hands to my baby!!! and snap the fingers at her little nose!!! I try to avoid and prevent the situations but there are cases (and many ) when you just cannot control five or more people around. On the other hand, I cannot stay home with the baby, she needs to go outside and she can and is to walk, besides I just can't carry her any more as I used to do as she grew up now and is rather heavy...

I have been to Tunisia and discovered that they don't necessarily grab a stranger's child in the street and kiss the baby. Before that I used to believe that this was the general way of the Arabic countries but now I think it is not.

So far I try to take their hands away with a smile and "please, no", but have the strong desire to stop and snap my fingers into the face of the "good man"... When my baby is taken to hands against my will I feel so helpless and outraged...

Any word like "imshee" for this case?

Libyans love kids and don't mean any harm. My guess is your child is blonde and cute; or are you blond and cute as they also like pretty women so the attention may well be an opener for a conversation with you.  Don't take this the wrong way please, just that my two daughters (now gone from here) were both blondes and we had this for years. My wife couldn't reckon if the attention was for her or the girls.
Still, there is no harm done. Embrace the friendship, just learn a bit of Arabic to tell them to leave your kids nose alone.

Horizontal Harry wrote:

Libyans love kids and don't mean any harm. My guess is your child is blond and cute; or are you blond and cute as they also like pretty women so the attention may well be an opener for a conversation with you.

Hair dye anyone?  Am I really going to have more of a hard time because I'm blond??  ... and cute


We live in South Africa and if you open a news paper there will be a article on some sort of violent crime that happened (but I love SA and will always come back).  If you walk in a dark alley you won't just get hit in the face...   COMMON SENSE!

This is Africa and Libya sounds like a paradise compared to most of the stuff happening in other parts of it...

But thank you Laurieloo - this helps a lot!

Palachakh

People in the east are generally like that towards kids........ there is no harm meant, just a show of affection.

In this regard the Italians are the worst offenders by far (if you take it offensively).

During our visit to Rome (many many years ago) with our one year old we saw guys, girls, men, women all stopping to admire the baby with a word or two of praise and often a kiss.

We were scolded by people for not having enough clothes on him to protect him from the sun.

One lady actually pulled him out of the stroller and rocked him in her lap since he was crying and we were not paying any attention to him.

I don't think everyone is out to get you............ the percentage of loonies in this world is actually very minute so enjoy what you can.

thanks, everybody! After having expressed the concern I feel much better

HH, nop, we are not blonds, rather dark-haired, I should say. But cute...

And this is the problem. With my mind I understand that they are very friendly and just cannot help it (in the clinic where I brought the baby with 38,5 C fever, while waiting at the doctor's study's door, the nurse (!) stopped by and kissed her!). But as a mother I feel very terribly totally and absolutely uncomfortable when the baby is being taken to hands and done things beyond my control and against my will. I don't want to be unfriendly and impolite as most locals are good-natured and friendly, but I really don't think they have the right to take my baby without "prior written consent"  

Now that I know that it is not only Libyans who are fond of that, I feel more in peace with the idea that this happens in many other places too and is taken as normal. Thanks again guys!

i'm libyan and i live in tripoli,,,

mmmmm i don't know what to say..i'm very embarrassed .. but i just want you to know that's not all of us are the same , and i hope for you that feel secure here .. and about the pretty girls yes .. in general libyan men in all ages have..with grils, I don't know what to call it "problems" "over Attention" it's not about the blonde hair only , so it's not your fault .
i'm very sorry about all the rude things that happens to you here .
ohhh by the why "amshee" means "go away"

RamOfox

Amshee?  In Gaza it was Imshee.  So here, amshee.  Right on.

I've been forwarded a report from the British Embassy that over the weekend, a British man was attacked and stabbed by a Libyan while walking on Omar Mokhtar Street (which runs from the front of Medina up to smelly roundabout). Injuries not thought to be serious.

Apparently the attack was completely unmotivated with the exception that the attacker identified the Brit for an American. No $hit.

The report went on to say that this was the first incidence of attacks on British citizens ever recorded and blah de blah no conspiracies etc.

I wonder if the outcome would have been different had the unfortunate victim been wearing a black beret, stripey T shirt, with breath ponging of garlic?

So Sandman, being Irish living in France & female, what should I wear???

U.S. Embassy Warden Message
November 22, 2009
Violence Against British Citizens

This warden message advises U.S. citizens of a criminal attack in Tripoli that may have been aimed at U.S. citizens.
On Saturday, November 21, 2009, two British citizens were attacked by an unknown assailant armed with a screwdriver while walking along Omar al-Mukhtar Street in downtown Tripoli. The assailant attacked the two even though they answered negatively to his query as to whether they were Americans. The British suffered minor injuries and the perpetrator escaped.  Preliminary reports indicate that the incident appears to be anti-American in nature. Therefore, the Embassy continues to remind all American citizens to exercise caution in public areas. While this is the first specifically anti-Western crime in Tripoli to come to the Embassy's attention in the last year, Libya continues to experience an overall increase in general crime, including violent crime. Both the British and U.S. embassies are in contact with the Libyan government regarding appropriate follow-up to Saturday's attack.

AAAfrica wrote:

So Sandman, being Irish living in France & female, what should I wear???

I don't imagine you'll be wearing a French football shirt

now I'm scared.

Scared of what?

The loony Libyan with the snap-on fixation.....

or

The Hand of Frog?

Loony Libyan... At times I get curious if they have any institutions for mentally ill individuals. Especially after me and my friends were followed, and now that. I heard that there used to be a mental hospital somewhere but does it work?

And do they have anything against the Chinese? With our asian appearance we are always taken for those by the local population. Even though the language we speak is far from Chinese, but who cares?

Cautionary tale: Automatic Electric Gates

Just wanted to bring this to people's attention, especially those with young children.

Yesterday, I'd opened the electric date and driven out of the compound and pressed the remote to close the gate behind me. Unknown to me, my 2 year old daughter decided she wanted to follow the car outside - by the time she'd got to the gate it was almost shut but she still tried to squeeze through, in doing so trapping her arm between the gate and the wall.

Fortunately, apart from a small cut on her arm where she'd tried to wriggle out, there were no injuries, but I imagine it could have been worse if her body had been trapped. There are no safety mechanisms on the gates to prevent someone being trapped.

Sandman,

We have a safety mechanism on our gate.  A person crossing the light beam reverses the gate to re-open.  So they are available. If you like, I'll check with landlord to see where he got it.

Thanks....I've already asked the landlord here to install the same sort of trip switch.

Trip switches should be installed on all gates with install...but then why do that. make us run around after the fact when you almost get killed or someone you love does...Happens here too, kids get caught under the garage doors..not at all good. glad your little one came out unscaved.
Noticed you mentioned a pool in other posts sandman is there a fence around it to keep her out?

hababbi wrote:

sandman is there a fence around it to keep her out?

Yes - the pool and stairs to the roof are secure.

Thank God, no worries for you there then..

Related threads:

WARNING TO ALL EXPAT FAMILIES  http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=49119&p=1 An incident

Warning to (primarily) ex-pat Women http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=37058 Useful discussion branched into many topics

All posts before revolution are kindda irrelevant. Can someone post some fresh info about current situation......Cheers.

Hi mathar13 > please note that this is an old thread (2010)

after revolution these is second time my friends & myself experienced incidents in Tripoli.
The first time it was near Grand Hotel where a person came with a military identity card(fake) & robbed money from us. He asked us to show passport & than took it. We had all the required documents still he asked money & after we gave him around 100 dinars, he returned the passports.
Today we have been robbed on a knife point in a bus which runs from janzour to tripoli. There were 4 people including the bus driver itself who took the mobiles & 500 dinar from us in a moving bus. There were 4 libyan passengers as well but nobody interfered & we were asked to get down from the bus after they took money & mobile from us. They showed us the knife & when we refused he tried to cut our pocket with knife. Even the driver was involved.
The situation is very bad here since we could not find a single police on the route. Hope Libya gets new strict laws & safety for expatrians.
Please be careful all expatrians.

mathar13 wrote:

All posts before revolution are kindda irrelevant. Can someone post some fresh info about current situation......Cheers.

Hi, I too, would like more current information. I have tried to message people privately but no one is responding.
I am mostly interested in hearing from single women or from men who know single women and know of their experiences.
I knew a Libyan man that lived here and he said I would be raped and killed if I went to Libya.

I discovered he lies alot so  now I am wondering if this, too, was an exaggeration.

If i dress with a full cover and wear colored contacts for my eyes, will they still realize I am American if I try not to speak?
I have heard there are many individuals that are mentally retarded, so perhaps not speaking they will just think I have some problem?
Also, I have heard it is not uncommon for older women to be illiterate.
Can anyone comment or confirm is this is true?
I will say that I don't watch the news...ever.
So we can't blame the media, all this comes from a libyan I used to know.

Dua dua

i think you need new Libyans to talk to... sounds like that person wanted to scare you. People in Libya are extremely friendly and they will not attack you because you are a foreigner no matter how you dress or the colour of your eyes!

well I discovered he is very dishonest but he has a great reputation as being very good and religious, and so far I haven't been able to get anyone to really tell me the information I need.
You are a blessing because your posts and blogs are so helpful.
Thank you, sister

You're welcome Dua Dua glad i can help. I'm working on revaminp my blog and i'll have plenty of brand new pictures soon as well as new content. Just check it out often or sign up for email updates. Or else you can always message me or by email...

Hope you find what you need and you can  make a move soon

I actually did message you.
Also, i forgot to mention, I didn't see a way to respond or make comments to a blog entry but since you are here....I will just ask you here.
When I go to view your blog (and I read a few), there was advertising on top of the words. You couldn't really read the center part.
Does everyone see that and is there a way to avoid it?
When I look at the list of subjects for your entries, and just see the first few lines of the post, it looks fine, but then when I click that topic and go to read the entire entry, it is quite difficult.
Please let me know if you didn't get my private message. I sent messages to about 15 different libyans for help and no one responded except for one that I added as a contact first, and another that commented on a post.

In Regards to the safety issue, I wonder if your experience is just different.
I read the earlier posts and they seem in line with what my friends said. Apparently you are ok if you are from Canada but not so much if you are from the States.
I do know it varies. Lord knows we have some backward country areas in the states that are close minded.
I would rather hear the bad things though. I just will always expect the good or be pleasantly surprised but the bad things I have to be told so I can be more aware. I tend to be very naive and trusting.
And if things were so safe then why does everyone have guns there? Or so my friend told me and it was also said in the earlier posts.
As far as friendly, that is wonderful, but I know many people that are friendly but fake. They act friendly but are not with you and will use you. Also I was told that in general, if you are poor no one will want to be your friend but if you have money or are perceived to have money, you will have everyone being nice.
Does anyone care to comment on if they have seen or had these experiences or if it's not true at all?
I'm anxious to learn more and balance out what I have heard.

Thanks for the feedback on my blog, i'm aware of some problems which is why i'm working on a new design and such. Sorry for the bad experience you had...ill try my best to improve things asap. As regards to your private message i believe i have replied to you, i always reply pretty much immediately, resend your message if you want and i'll reply again if it didn't work.

About safety, please take into consideration that some posts here have been added before 2011, which is before the revolution and since 2011 Libya is quite a different country. Issues of security since the end of the revolutions are no way as serious but some incidents do happen, like everywhere else. It is true that in Libya everyone has guns, it's just like that but that doesn't mean anything really i stick by what i said Libyans are very friendly and welcoming. It's just that after the revolutions people who had faught simply refused to let go of their weapons. Inshallah when the country becomes more stable all those weapons will disapear.

I haven't had any bad experience with libyan people so i can't comment on the "fake" issue but i guess Libya is like everywhere else, you got some good and some bad people but i'd say in general, people are sincere and they are usually very happy to be able to help. Honor and friendship is very important to them so thay don't like to act (or other people to act) in ways that give a bad name to their country.

I hope you'll get loads of feedback on your post so you can get a clearer picture.