Understanding the bigger picture...cont. from the whole huband topic

OOPS forgot the link!!
http://www.detoxifynow.com/et_pain_body.html
PLEASE CHECK IT OUT...IT WILL HELP YOU IMMENSELY I AM SURE!!

And this is another good one:
http://www.detoxifynow.com/mind_detox.html
Muslim's will relate to this article I am sure!!

PS I will not be responding to those who PM'ed me about this topic because I think this says it all...shukran!!

My dear peacelovelight, I'm so sad for what u have got through and yet very happy for you that things have started to get better. Yes I very much understand how u feel, and I do understand your husband's situation coz somewhat iam in a similar situation here. Where I do struggle all the time and it is a simple fact that my skills and me all over don't belong to the Arabic mentality. I wish you all the best for you and your husband and hopefully God is bringing you better future soon - Amen.

Hi Ismailk-

Well thank you for your blessings...all is good, really. I feel much more powerful and it eases my mind to know I have some control over this all. I actually am, FINALLY, grateful it all happened...because now I am just that much wiser and am ready to be  "tested" again...I will pass this time!!! And soon, I will no longer attract these types of situations into my life...cause GOD KNOWS...I am really ready to be happy again!!

And I UNDERSTAND!!! Finding the median between Arabic mind set and American mind set is just another challenge isn't it?
If I haven't posted about it yet, I will soon...but I have been documenting this journey as well...bottom line...what I have found for myself is: stay true to yourself but respectful of the culture...don't trust anyone in business (most lie or are making themselves appear bigger than they really are....this is with regards to sales...so many people tell us..oh I want this..and we find it for them and then they flake...we lose the time and it is soooo frustrating...)and most importantly...if it doesn't resonate with you DON'T DO IT!!!...and a rare one here...it's ok to be different!! Oh, sorry I thought of another...and expect problems, delays and such...especially if you must listen to everyone else's opinion!

What do you think??? Am I understanding correctly the issues..or is it another way? There are so many...remember, it's not just Jordan...it's EVERY culture and country...When I left South Korea...I swore I would never go back!! It was sooooo challenging...Jordan has got it beat...but I am sure there are crazier places!! Next time, I'm heading to an island!! Most islanders are pretty relaxed!

Salam Sister,
I don't know whether you are a Muslim, but if you are ..I have an obligation to correct you...
Where you mentioned...
"I prayed to God and to my angels for help."

I am so grateful for my connection to spirit/source/ my soul energy and all Divine Beings of Light...

Remember, We only pray and ask from The Only One..Allah..we can't ask anyone else...That will be associating partners to the 'only' one who has the control over everything. Associating partners and asking from them is forbidden in Islam..We believe in monotheism..Oneness of Allah..Associating partners is called 'shirk' and it will never be forgiven.

Listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV5YXPY570c
All the best..keep in touch..
Rehana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV5YXPY570c
The lyrics are

When you feel all alone in this world
And theres nobody to count your tears
Just remember no matter where you are
Allah knows, allah knows

When youre carrying a monster load
And youre wondering how far you can go
Every step you take on that road
Allah knows, Allah knows

No matter what side or out
theres one thing of which theres no doubt
Allah knows, allah knows
And whatever lies in the heavens or the earth every star in this whole universe allah knows, allah knows


When you find that special someone
Feel your whole life has barely begun
You can walk on the moon shouted it to everyone
Allah knows, allah knows

When you gaze with love in your eyes
Catch a glimpse of paradise
And you see your child take the first breath of life
Allah knows, allah knows

No matter what side or out
theres one thing of which theres no doubt
Allah knows, allah knows
And whatever lies in the heavens or the earth every star in this whole universe allah knows, allah knows

When you lose someone close to your heart
See your whole world fall apart
And you try to go on but it seems so hard
allah knows Allah knows

You see we all have a path to choose
Through the valleys and hills we go
With the ups and the downs never fret never frown
Allah knows allah knows

No matter what inside or out
theres one thing of which theres no doubt
Allah knows, allah knows

cuz No matter what inside or out
theres one thing of which theres
Allah knows, allah knows
And whatever lies in the
no doubt the heavens or the earth every star in this whole universe allah knows, allah knows

Every grain of sand
In every desert land
He knows
Every shade of palm
Every closed hand
he knows
every sparkling tears
on every eye lash he knows
every thought i have
every word i share
he knows
allah knows

Dear Peacelovelight,
yes you got it right and regardless what other reasons or situations could be, at the end the conclusion is the same. Yes there are many crazy places everywhere, but I guess the problem is when people claim something and act the very opposite way.

Yes American and Arabic are different, but I guess it is not about being Arabic or American or another kind of culture, because the problem is that people do things in a way that is too way far from standards or idealistic mode.

Anyway, just let the past vanish, extract the best lessons of it and get over it. What happened had happened and you are now in a better situation -thank God.

Well, I am happy for you that everyting turns in a good way.

Yes...all is better in the now.

So to Primadonna...as I stated, I am not Muslim. And in English God means ALLAH...they are the same..,it's like I am from AMERICA and in Arabic you say Amerakeah...they are the same..that's why I wrote WE ARE ONE...so I just wanted to clear that up...when I write God it is the same as Allah thanks for your post and  the song it was very appropriate!!

Do you sing this song in your band?

Oh and FYI Allah in English is also referred to as: Creator or Source Energy...often those who use this terminology were raised without a religion enforced in their lives.

peacelovelight wrote:

Yes...all is better in the now.

So to Primadonna...as I stated, I am not Muslim. And in English God means ALLAH...they are the same..,it's like I am from AMERICA and in Arabic you say Amerakeah...they are the same..that's why I wrote WE ARE ONE...so I just wanted to clear that up...when I write God it is the same as Allah thanks for your post and  the song it was very appropriate!!

Do you sing this song in your band?

Oh and FYI Allah in English is also referred to as: Creator or Source Energy...often those who use this terminology were raised without a religion enforced in their lives.

I think you mean this to Flowerinjannah?

OOOOPs.....so sorry Primadonna...
The message/reply is to Flowerinhannah....

..I knew it..
"the song it was very appropriate!!"..
Thanks for that compliment

Do you sing this song in your band?
I don't have a band, but this is from a famous 'nasheed(song)' singer/songwriter called Zain Bhikha and you can hear the soothing tone used in this 'nasheed' on the link I pasted above. You may try hearing more of his on youtube.

Where you mentioned about "Oh and FYI Allah in English is also referred to as: Creator or Source Energy...often those who use this terminology were raised without a religion enforced in their lives."..I would share a nice 'nasheed' about one and only God for everybody in all the universe..'We call Allah as Rabb-al- aalameen'..
You may enjoy this one as well as you liked the previous 'nasheed'..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kToG_ACzeM..

Say he is Allah the only one. *2
We all need him. And he needs no one. *2
He has no parent, no daughter, no son. *2
No body is like him. And he is like no one. *2


Let us pray.."May the one and Only Allah/God..'Almighty' show us all the 'path of Righteous'..and keep us steadfast on the faith we have in Him..."


Regards
Rehana

Hi Peacelovelight,

Is changing countries again really going to solve your husband's dilemma? From what I understand from my own cousins, both of who have degrees and are professionals, the job situation in the States at the moment is quite bleak. Would he not be better trying to get work in  Amman or perhaps the UAE?

It may well be that his rage is due to not being able to find a decent job or succeed in setting up his own business the way he would like it to succeed, but also due to his failure to persuade you to convert to Islam. He could have his family in both ears muttering away to him, telling him he would be happier with a muslim wife. I'm not defending him. Marrying someone and then calling them horrible names is not acceptable at all. But in my experience, the guys I have met, who have not yet married but found someone over here,  come to our house when they visit and ask me things like “How did your husband persuade you to convert to Islam? “(bizarre; I had been a muslim for years before I met my husband. In a twist of fate, converting to Islam is what destroyed my first marriage.) “What can I do to get her to convert?” “What if we have a son and she won't agree to having him circumcised?” My answer is always the same, - “If this is so important to you, then find someone else to marry. “ Sure enough, they all ignore this advice, then the marriage goes downhill as the guy realises he is not able to get her to convert. The girls all seem to have the impression (well, so far in the last 8 years since we came back to the UK, I have only met 6 in this category, so not exactly a big enough sample ) that their children will be brought up in both faiths. In one case, the husband's father came over here. He was nice enough to her face, but told the son behind her back “Make her convert (seriously “make” was the word he used) or get rid of her. We are a muslim family.” Two children later, mind you.

Deb568 wrote:

Well thanks for your input you got some of it right! However, my husband is not your typical Jordanian.

You got this one!!
"It may well be that his rage is due to not being able to find a decent job or succeed in setting up his own business the way he would like it to succeed"

Yep that's it.
This is the only reason..besides that he doesn't really have anything in common with the people here...even though they are his family and friends...he claims his mind is just different...he's really not interested in talking about the Qur'an all the time. He likes to ride motor cycles and play golf...do more outdoors sports stuff.
Unfortunately, customs confiscated our quad racer and golf cart...it's really made life not as fun...we'd take them out every night at home..here, I am always in the house, I can't even ride my bike. It's hard to be together when Mommy has to stay home or sit on the sidelines. It's like the rules here have forced our family apart, not encouraged us to be together...it's all separated. So much different.

Then you went on to say:

"but also due to his failure to persuade you to convert to Islam. "

Well this is certainly not it, although this could be the case for other women...

He is the most non-religious man I know. I am 100 times more spiritual than him. He is definitely not wanting a Muslim wife, he has told me this 1000 times. He says that their minds are just too different. He might wish I wasn't so strong willed...but then again that's what attracted him to me in the first place...because I had my own thoughts and opinions, he found them interesting, although sometimes maddening at the same time. (I am really interested in philosophy and quantum physics...he has no interest at all)

You know I have had to push him like this several times in his life when he got stuck. It always is the sane thing. He's not working and then the marriage starts to fall apart because he takes his anger out on us. When I finally say,  "enough...that's it, it's not working," it's like it lights a fire in his head to wake up and get moving. Three times it ended up being a really good professional move. So I am just hoping this is gonna work out.

You also wrote:
"He could have his family in both ears muttering away to him, telling him he would be happier with a Muslim wife. "

This could be true. He has mentioned this to me a few times and he said it just makes him mad, because they just don't understand the problem. I have even told him...many times, "Perhaps you'd be happier with a Muslim wife. It's ok...if so,  then just tell your sisters, I know they can find you one." He just gives me the evil eye. I believe that you can't force people to love and respect each other..it's either there or it's not.

The problem is his self-worth and manhood have been diminished. That's it. He needs to provide, that's man's primary function when you break it all down to the hunters and gathers...man brings home the food woman fries it up in the pan. And then they make babies.

There's a very interesting author I recommend to everyone if you haven't already read his books..Dr. John Gray.."Men are From Mars Women Are From Venus"...it'd be interesting to hear a Muslim take on them. I wonder if any of you would agree with his findings...or if somehow the traditions are so different they wouldn't apply?

For me, his books (there are a few more)...really got me to understand the core psychological traits inherent in men and women ..what makes them tick and why they think they way they do. When I started to realize these differences, I noticed many things I thought he thought, just because I thought them that way...when really..what I am thinking and what he is thinking are so different...I find all that quite intriguing!

Again...deb568 thanks for your thoughts on all of this.

Oh and one more thing you wrote:

“What if we have a son and she won't agree to having him circumcised?”
Have you researched any other sources besides the Qur'an regarding the truths vs. myths of circumcision? If not, you owe it to your sons to do so...if the world only knew how damaging this one act it to the entire population of humanity they would put down the knife!! We can always start a new topic on this, but please, only if you have some medical and scientific proof backing your opinions...in addition to the Qur'an. Either that, or I can provide that!! We can debate it eh? TRUST ME...the info I have uncovered will make you really think...if you can look outside the box.

So, what is the next step?
Did you make plans already to go back and when this will take place?

The thing is with jobs, you can have people who are without a job and get offered one, maybe a menial low wage one, but enough to keep food on the table, but they refuse to take it, because they are holding out for a better job. Perhaps if they have a family to support they should be taking the opportunity that Allah puts before them and not turning their nose up at what's available because it isn't good enough for them. I live in a whole country like that. Literally millions of people who refuse to work at low paid jobs and choose instead to live off other people. One of my favourite families in Jordan had a small business making falafel. Something I find laborious to make. Shelling chickpeas is boring :-) But the number of people that tiny business supported, - no shop, just a hole in the side of the house that he sold the falafel through in the morning, and all the cooking in the enclosed courtyard within the property - was phenomenal. And most of the men in that family had a higher education but couldn't get work. Too "low class" for the snobs in West Amman to give them work.

DoveOmeri wrote:

My husbands response was,even with doing that,especially when the weather is hot,it gets sweaty and dirty in there,and is a pain to keep up with the cleaning of that area,thus causing infections etc...even as an adult male.

That is what my husband told me also.
There is medical studies that they claimed the same.
And your thought about God was the same as mine.
The answer my hubby give to me was that this was a part of the test: we must obey the rules of God.

Are both of your husbands both uncircumcised?
Have you googled the topic yet?
Can you provide me with the medical doctor who said the reason why males are circumcised is because it gets hot and smelly? I am curious to read the statement. Thanks!!!

Does God have rules?

Hello all,
Male infants, worldwide, are circumcised for various social, religious and/or medical reasons.

Generally, the ritual of circumcision is traced back to the time of the greatest of prophets Ibraheem (peace be upon him) when Allah commanded him to circumcise himself, his son Ishmael and all his male family members, and he followed Allah's order.
Today Muslims are the largest religious nation to circumcise their male offspring. This ritual shows their belonging and closeness to their spiritual ancestor and the physical forefather, Prophet Ibraheem (peace be upon him). Because circumcision was also practised by all prophets, traditionally it has been in practice throughout the history among the followers of Prophet Ibraheem and establishes an Islamic connection to the ritual. 
Besides submission to the Will of God, male circumcision is an important ritual aimed at improving cleanliness. Therefore, in Arabic, circumcision is also known as tahara, meaning purification or cleanliness.  The Qur'an says: "Allah does not want to place burden on you. Rather, He wants to purify you and to complete His favours to you so that you may be grateful." [The Holy Qur'an 5:7]

However, The Holy Qur'an does not impose an obligation on parents to circumcise their children, but the prophet Mohammed is reported to have stated that "Circumcision is a sunnah (customary or traditional) for the men. Most references to male circumcision occur in the examples and traditions of the Prophet (peace be upon him). Therefore the scholars strongly recommend circumcision for male. From this point of view, traditionally, adult male converts to Islam are encouraged to undergo the operation.
Hadith are reported indicating that the Prophet Muhammad's grandsons, Hassan and Hussaiyn (peace be upon them) were circumcised on the seventh day after their birth and daughter of the Prophet Muhammad, Fatima (peace be upon them) herself is quoted talking about her sons' circumcision on the seventh day after their birth.
My son was circumcised when he was 10 days old. Alhamdulillah. In UK, the British Medical Association's position (June 2006) was that male circumcision for medical purposes should only be used where less invasive procedures are either unavailable or not as effective. The BMA specifically refrained from issuing a policy regarding “non-therapeutic circumcision,” stating that as a general rule, it “believes that parents should be entitled to make choices about how best to promote their children's interests, and it is for society to decide what limits should be imposed on parental choices.”[11]
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Circumcisi … tages.aspx

Nevertheless, a Hadith related by Bukhari reads: "The practices related to Fitrah (the nature) are five: circumcision, shaving the pubic hair, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails and removing the hair of the armpits." In fact these are general practices that humans have discovered by instinct to be good for them with or without organized religion.   
Advocates for circumcision say it provides important health advantages which outweigh the risks, that it improves on sexual function,[2] has a complication rate of less than 0.5% when carried out by an experienced physician, and is best performed during the neonatal period.[3]


A recent report on the Relationship and intimacy related benefits: can be read on
http://joseph4gi.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07 … s-sex.htmlhttp://joseph4gi.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07 … ision.html
According to Muslim scholars the male convert should be circumcised, as this is part of the natural manners recommend in Islam. If the male is able to tolerate the act of circumcision and there is no fear of harm being afflicted on him, and also it is done by oneself as not to expose the nakedness (awra) in front of another person, then circumcision should be carried out.  If the grown up male is not in a position to tolerate or bear the pain of circumcision, or there is fear of harm being inflicted on him. In this case, circumcision can be (and should be) avoided.  However, if circumcision would pose any health risks such as causing other complications or infections, it may be delayed until the person becomes more able to cope with it. In such situation the scholars refer to the example of Ibrahim (peace be upon him) who circumcised himself at the age of eighty.

peacelovelight wrote:

Does God have rules?

I'll suggest to read the Qoran.

peacelovelight wrote:

Does God have rules?

Probably a different set of rules for each person on earth at any one time. The Koran, for example, has to be interpreted. Each person reading the Koran makes their own, unique, interpretation.

Take smoking. My father in law, who has never smoked in his life, says it is haram, and quotes the Koran: (2:195) "...make not your own hands contribute to your destruction..." If the Koran is the word of God made manifest, then surely this would be one of God's rules?

Is smoking harmful? For sure. There's plenty of medical evidence to support this. But ask any muslim who smokes whether it is haram and you will probably get excuses like it's disputed among scholars, it's just disliked, not forbidden, etc etc.

Probably both sides of the fence hold hard to their interpretation of the Koran on this point, even though they come to opposite conclusions.

Thanks Deb568-Well said...I was right with you, you brought up some great points. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

To this discussion:
Somehow this conversation keeps getting back to translation of the Qur'an. I hope that your insights will add another perspective to the topic (of which is now officially off topic).

Thanks for your comments.
Flowerinjannah and Primadonna...did you see my question?

"Are both of your husbands both uncircumcised?
Have you googled the topic yet?
Can you provide me with the medical doctor who said the reason why males are circumcised is because it gets hot and smelly? I am curious to read the statement. Thanks!!!"

I know you know what the Qur'an says...I'm just trying to share some powerful information with the readers of this site...scientific, tangible, proven information...not to try to say the Qur'an is wrong or that it doesn't say what you've written.

When circumcision was mentioned, I just commented because it is something I have been learning a lot about lately, and the information is so profound I wanted to share it with you all. However, maybe I am not on the proper forum for this.

Can you follow my point here:
Back in the day there was a belief that bloodletting was the way to cure illness. I'm sure it's written somewhere that this is what is always done and why...

but fast forward to modern day and we see that actually there are other more effective ways of curing illness. Should we continue to bleed people because of what was believed and written long ago? Do we ignore scientific, psychological and biological proof of the current discovery? Do we let people die when they can be cured, just because of our present day interpretation of what is written?

Regarding circumcision, do we continue to take from our sons what is a HUGE gift from Allah?
Perhaps this is why you do not want to research it and see what I am saying...because you will see the proof and now you will be challenging your religious belief, and I understand this, maybe you do not want this conflict in your mind.

But in this case, who really does your belief serve? Is it in the best interest of your son? No way!! YOU MUST inform yourself to understand what I am saying...trust me, this has nothing to do with religion...it is a misconception, a misinterpretation...

They still circumcise Muslim women in other parts of the world.
May I ask, how would you feel if someone came up to you today and pointed to the very same verses you have written to me and said,

"Well, according to my interpretation, it says here.............." "so we need you to lay down and we are cutting off your clitoris...I know you are used to it and it is a part of you, and it makes life enjoyable, but in the Qur'an it says....."
When it is hot, your clitoris is just too smelly, so it's gotta go."
"What do you say? You shower everyday and keep yourself clean...?"
Well, too bad, it says here that's it's gotta go!!!....ok....open up...hand me the knife? Ah...and no anesthesia...not allowed..."

Btw, although this is not so common today, this is how my husband and his brothers were circumcised...at 7 years old ...hunted down by men and butchered under an olive tree...it has scarred him emotionally more than you can imagine! It affects our relationship every day, every moment....but you won't understand why, because you can see no further than what you were told.

Education is a gift and a privilege that not all humans have access to. It helps to enlighten us...it helps us understand and make informed decisions. My bringing this up was to educate, not to debate religion. Please understand this.

Every male in my family is circumcised , and not one of them is muslim. It's cleaner than being uncircumcised, and reduces the risk of certain cancers. It reduces the risk of infection to the head of the penis. But here it's done soon after birth, not at seven years old.
This is probably less important for monogamous males, but the risk of HIV is less for circumcised males. To me there are good medical reasons for circumcision. But waiting until someone is 7 years old to do the procedure? That's barbaric. And negligent, imho, on the part of the parents.

Hello all.

Just to remind you that topics on religion are very sensible and should be avoided on a forum dedicated to expatriation.

Thank you,
Aurélie

It is clear that none of you researched it because all the reasons you are giving me have been disproved..and rape would be almost unheard of IF men were UNCIRCUMCISED.

And you're missing the point, again..it's nothing to do with religion...I SAID THAT!! Hello! Catholics, Christians, Jewish, Atheist, etc. are circumcised...practically all of the US is...basically anyone who is not informed. Religion is not the topic. We all know what religion says about it.

Everything is actually opposite of what you have been told...as we are or I should say (some of us are) finding with almost everything in our world. If you can just see outside the box, there is a whole other world...one that does not include practices and beliefs that keep us in pain and enslaved. The general rule is..if it hurts, is harmful, makes you feel bad, it's not right and there's another way. Humanity is so brainwashed into accepting that life is full of pain and sorrow, that we don't deserve pleasure, health and happiness that when someone shows you a better way, you fight it! You are so programmed you resist what is actually an improvement. But this planet is one of freewill, so everyone can make up their own decision on whether to see the cup is half full or half empty.

Discussing these topics has really opened MY eyes about many things. Thanks for sharing your mindset with me.

So Sad to hear...But i will offer my pray for you too Peacelovelight...God will give you more strenght to face all this,and be strong My Dear <3

Hi Kate29-
Thanks for your concern, however...things are looking up!! Everything is finally falling into place and he is now leaving for the US....which means two words for me:

FREEDOM & HAPPINESS

Life will be a lot easier without him getting in my way!! (Due to his jealous nature.)

Isn't it nice when something that appears to be terrible turns into something fantastic!!

Hi Peacelovelight,

Previous Note.- Please, donŽt take the followings words as a personal and fierce attack, maybe it will seems unpolite, cruel... otherwise these are words from a woman like you who has suffered so much pain as you 99% of my entire life, until just a year ago. I am not able to write in that inspirated manner as you do. By the way, I am not phycologist,psyquiatric or whatever therapist so maybe I misunderstood your explanation, if so, please forgive me.

I have just read your post. Nobody is able to speak or write such a words unless has suffered deeply for a long time emotional pain before. I donŽt mean such us usual pain/suffering that everybody suffers throught the life. What I mean is the pain, suffering, the soulŽs desease of human beings in a certain range of tempers,

STRONGLY EMOTIONAL PERSONALITY
LACK OF SELFCONFIDENCE
LACK OF EMOTIONAL STABILITY
SENSITIVE.
PHYCOLOGICALLY DEPENDENT
UNBALANCED BRAIN-EMOTIONS.

These kind of tempers are prone to suffer things such as you talk about, and prone to allow being hurt, being subdued, being humiliated, giving and giving all time.

Instead of get a good phycologist,psyquiatric... therapist, otherwise working to change things that it doesnŽt work inside yourself, you have taken the mistic and religious way as a therapy, reaching by yourself the conclusion of LOVE as the meaning, as the healing.

Your brain/intelligence is amazingly developed,clear, brilliant your ability to abstract thoughts unbelivebly, you can rationalize... but you also cheat yourself, your emotional side (the strongest one) has been handling your brain all this time in order to avoiding conflicts, avoiding to fight, surrendering,  may  be you have been hiding from yourself (PASIVE ACCEPTANCE).

Remember the message of LOVE by Jesús, he loved but he was also brave to face the corrupted world. Remember Mathama Gandhi with its concept PASIVE RESISTANCE, other way to fight opossite to PASIVE ACCEPTANCE.

LOVE means loving yourself so much as you love people around you.

PASIVE ACCEPTANCE is the way to allow cruelty, brutality, injustice and abuse. Western civilitation is allowing, by means of pasive acceptance, power and money destroy human being.

Your seems to be so valuable and authentic person... please do not spread the message of pasive acceptance.

Regards,