Has anyone gone through the simplified naturalization precedure?

jesperss wrote:

csheppa wrote:

heretime figuring out exactly how it works from the website.

So I don't need to prove the clean criminal record then?

What about those forms, from what I can tell I needed to fill out at least this one? Do I need any other forms listed here on the allampolgarsag.gov.hu website?

And noted about the birth certificates, hopefully I will be able to find one. I am starting that search now.

Thanks again!

There's no way you can prove a clean criminal background.

They'll do background checks I assume rather than "take your word" for it.

It's something I definitely would not try to hide.

If you have something to hide, I am sure they will find it. The last thing they will want is undesirables in the country?

csheppa wrote:

Hi I was hoping someone who had gone through the process or familiar with it could make sure I have got this right.

Once I have all the documents together, then what? Call my consulate and ask for an appointment? Do I turn in all my forms and take the interview at the same time? Do I have to schedule the appointment speaking Hungarian on the phone? Provided they accept my application, then I have to make another appointment to take the oath? How does that work?

These are the documents I need to bring to the appointment correct:

• Birth certificate/proof of citizenship of Hungarian Ancestor in Hungarian
• Birth certificates of father and grandfather showing my connection to ancestor translated to Hungarian
• My birth certificate/proof of martial status translated to Hungarian
• Completion of the Honosítás születés form
• Completion of Visszahonosítás form
• Proof of no Criminal Record? How do I show this?

My great-grandfather is my ancestor, if I can find his birth details and his marriage certificate from the USA. Does anyone know, do I also need my great-grandmother's birth certificate/proof of birth? Details on her are harder for me to find, she was also born in Austria-Hungary.

Many thanks for the help!
Charles

You'll also need marriage certificates for your parents, your grandparents, and I believe your great grandparents.

You will not need your great grandmother's birth certificate,

If married, you'll also need the form to register your marriage. It's very similar to the brith registration form.

If your application is accepted by the consulate/embassy for processing, you'll wait 6-12 months back for a response. Once it has been processed (and all is good) you'll most likely receive an email asking to take the oath at the consulate/embassy at a specific date about 1-3 months after that. No need to make an appointment to take an oath - they have set days for the oath ceremony.

"It's part of modern day Ukraine, a city called Mukachevo formally Munkacz of Hungary."

If you search here, you'll find another poster complaining that the Ukrainian authorities make getting official copies of old birth records almost impossible. So before investing time in polishing up your Hungarian, make sure you can get your hands on a birth certificate (or an old passport).

No need to rent a car: Mukachevo is reached easily enough by public transport.

And yes, if your initial ancestor is your great-grandfather, you'll need your great-grandparents' marriage certificate but not your great-grandmother's birth certificate.

jesperss wrote:

...
There's no way you can prove a clean criminal background.
....

You could always get a Police Clearance Certificate (might be called something else elsewhere).   

This shows you do not have a criminal record they know about.

They are commonly used to get visas or residence permits or even certain types of job etc, but it depends on the country what it's called or used for. 

For USA, it's the FBI here: FBI checks USA

For previous foreign visas I have supplied a FBI and local background check that showed that I had no offenses listed on my record.

Thanks to everyone for the help! I will start with the search for the birth details first! I will try and post back how it goes.

The reason why Ukrainian Government make hard to get these documents is because they know that people are asking them to apply for their second (Hungarian or Polish) citizenship.

By Ukrainian Citizenship law dual citizenship is NOT allowed and if you get it you must report it and to renounce and loose Ukrainian Citizenship.
To avoid loosing it, lot of people just don't report that they apply for and get second citizenship.

Of course if you have or know someone who has good connections with Ukrainian officials or reward ($$$) them for their hard and low paid work everything is possible

If Death certificate of your ancestor has his/her date and place of birth, in most cases it will be accepted as a proof instead of his/her Birth certificate for the simplified naturalization procedure.
Doesn't matter that Death Certificate is issued by another country, place and date of birth are also there.

Also WW1 Draft Card with his place and date of birth is a proof that your ancestor was Hungarian citizen who served in Austro-Hungarian Army during the WW1.

Aha okay, well I think death certificate will be fairly simple to locate, hopefully it has the required information.

The draft card I should have mentioned is actually issued by the US as the relative had left in 1904.

Just wanted to share a source of online church records for anyone looking in Munkacs or this region, which I stumbled upon. Probably only scratching the surface, but you may get lucky:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat … %20Library

Unfortunately you have to load these from a library that has access to familysearch (unless you are mormon..)

Any Personal Certificate (Birth, Marriage or Death Certificate) is usually recorded and kept in the place (city, state, country) where your ancestor was born, married and passed away.
All of these personal certificates should have place and date of birth.

Just received my passport. 4 years since I started talking to the consulate about booking my first interview. I'm exhausted but so happy!! I'm happy to speak in further detail about my experience albeit not in a public forum. Feel free to DM any questions 😊

I just came across this recent and disturbing post on Reddit:

"I'm going through the simplified process too through my great grandmother. I think the biggest issue for you here is that they'll also want the marriage certificate of the parents of the person you are claiming ancestry from. Which means if you are claiming ancestry from your grandmother's grandmother, you'll need the marriage certificate of her parents too (in my case, I needed the marriage certificate of my great great grandparents)."

Reddit Link

This has not been my understanding at all. My understanding has always been that your starting document is a birth record for an ancestor born on Hungarian territory, not a wedding record of that ancestor's parents.

Is there any basis for the statement by the poster on Reddit?

Nothing new.
The same information you can find on the Embassy of Hungary in Washington D.C. in section how to do VERIFICATION of Hungarian Citizenship.

They have to see that your ancestors never lost their citizenship, so you can request your Hungarian citizenship through Verification Procedure.

http://washington.kormany.hu/hungarian- … ip-general

Hungarian citizenship
GENERAL INFORMATION:

Before going into details, you should take into consideration the following principles:

The Hungarian citizenship law is based on the principles of jus sanguinis ("right of blood" in Latin), meaning that a person acquires Hungarian citizenship by birth from a parent who is a Hungarian citizen.
Therefore, a Hungarian birth certificate proves only the fact of birth but NOT the Hungarian citizenship.
As citizenship laws don't have retroactive effect (except in some very special cases), one always have to refer to the law which was in force at the date of his/her birth.
Dual citizenship is permitted under Hungarian Law.

I Procedure

The assessment is made by completing the form "Állampolgárság igazolása iránti kérelem" (Request for Proof of Citizenship) in Hungarian (the form is only available in Hungarian).

To the form you have to attach original birth and marriage (and if the case, divorce) certificates tracing back to the person who you think had Hungarian citizenship. e.g.: if you think your grandfather might have been a Hungarian citizen, then you need to attach: - the marriage certificate of your grandfather's parents - the birth and marriage certificate of your grandfather - the birth certificate of your grandfather's child (your parent) - your parents marriage certificate - your birth certificate and your marriage certificate - if you were married multiple times, you must send in all your marriage certificates and final divorce court orders (If the judgment doesn't contain indication on the exact date when it entered in force, then a separate stamp must be obtained from the court on the document, indicating e.g.: "Time within which to file appeal has expired")
When in possession of these documents you have to appear in person at the diplomatic or consular representation whose area of responsibility includes the State you live in (see the consular districts of Hungarian missions in the U.S).

Through Simplified Naturalization Procedure you don't need to prove that your ancestors were Hungarian citizens all time without interruption.
You need to prove that they were born before 26.07.1921. at pre-Trianon Hungary.
After that, your other ancestors most probably lost their Hungarian citizenship because they emigrated or they continue to live in new countries on the territories of pre-Trianon Hungary.

With Verification Procedure you have to prove that your ancestors were Hungarian citizens at birth and that they never lost it, so that's why they are asking for these documents.

But the Reddit poster is specifically addressing Simplified Naturalization. ("I'm going through the simplified process too.") We're not talking at all about verification here; it's another approach entirely.

I have my grandmother's birth record showing her birth in Hungarian territory. If the Reddit poster is correct, then for Simplified Naturalization I also need her parents' wedding record (which would be impossible to obtain). As I said, my understanding has always been that the birth record of the Hungarian ancestor is sufficient.

They didn't ask it before this thing for Simplified Naturalization.
Might be true but (although didn't find anywhere else this new information to confirm it), but also might be another misunderstanding between person asking for Hungarian citizenship and Consulate officer.
Won't be first time that this thing happened.
Worst case scenario is that at the Interview, if it is necessary, they may ask you to send them later this Marriage Certificate.

Birth place and date of birth are the most important things for Simplified Naturalization.
At that time hardly you can find people with (foreign) passports traveling for tourism or doing business in foreign countries.
They know that (almost) everyone born in pre-Trianon Hungary was Hungarian citizen.
That's why Marriage Certificate for your initial ancestor's parents doesn't make any sense for Simplified Naturalization.
At the contrary it is very important for Verification Procedure and non-interrupted Citizenship.

My assumption is that the Reddit poster and the consul didn't quite understand each other. Or maybe there's something particular about the Reddit poster's situation. Still, it's worrisome to see something new like this pop-up.

In my case, the birth record specifically states my Grandmother's birth was legitimate, and it's signed by the local priest, so I take that as awfully good proof her parents were married.

Definitely.
At that time it was very rare that children were born outside of marriage and that they were not baptized after birth. So Church records proved everything you need for Simplified Naturalization.

Hi all,

I applied for the simplified citizenship procedure last year.

My grandparents were both born in Hungary and immigrated to Australia after the war. My Hungarian is...OK  (good enough to get thru the interview at least) and I passed the interview in May.

This week I received an email saying that my application was unsuccessful, there were no legal ramifications and that i was eligible to reapply.

No explanation at all...I gave all the possible documents they could need. I have a good job with a good income and strong desire to live in Hungary.

Not trying to discourage anyone...but be prepared, they might reject your application for some unknown reason and take a year to do so. After which you will need to reapply and wait another year for another decision to be made.

Stiffs83 wrote:

Hi all,

I applied for the simplified citizenship procedure last year.

My grandparents were both born in Hungary and immigrated to Australia after the war. My Hungarian is...OK  (good enough to get thru the interview at least) and I passed the interview in May.

This week I received an email saying that my application was unsuccessful, there were no legal ramifications and that i was eligible to reapply.

No explanation at all...I gave all the possible documents they could need. I have a good job with a good income and strong desire to live in Hungary.

Not trying to discourage anyone...but be prepared, they might reject your application for some unknown reason and take a year to do so. After which you will need to reapply and wait another year for another decision to be made.

Maybe you could have a word HERE?

Sometimes there are things they'll tell you but won't put in writing. So I'd suggest a call or visit to the consul. Mention that you'd like to re-submit, but don't know what to do differently.

Offhand, it does sound like your Hungarian may not have been up to snuff by current standards, even if you managed the interview. Not sure what else could have been the problem, with a letter inviting you to re-apply.

http://www.allampolgarsag.gov.hu/images/angol.pdf

Every non-Hungarian citizen is eligible for preferential (Simplified) naturalisation if:
- he or any of his ancestors was a Hungarian citizen or if he serves reason to believe his or her origin is from Hungary,
- he proves his knowledge of the Hungarian language,
- he has no criminal record and is not under prosecution,
- his naturalisation does not violate the public and national security of Hungary.

zif wrote:

Sometimes there are things they'll tell you but won't put in writing. So I'd suggest a call or visit to the consul. Mention that you'd like to re-submit, but don't know what to do differently.

Offhand, it does sound like your Hungarian may not have been up to snuff by current standards, even if you managed the interview. Not sure what else could have been the problem, with a letter inviting you to re-apply.

Their Hungarian was fine if they accepted the application. They wouldn't have accepted it had their Hungarian not been up to par.

No, you'll recall that Blonder's first application was accepted by the consul, then rejected on language grounds by Budapest. Blonder had to study more and submit a second application.

There have also been reports from some applicants who've received phone calls from Budapest checking on their Hungarian level, after they successfully submitted their applications at a consulate or embassy.

Finally, some folks who've had their applications approved have been warned that the cookie jar might be yanked right back if they show up for the oath and don't speak Hungarian well enough.

All of which suggests to me that the consul does not have final say-so. It may have been different in the very early years, but there were reportedly problems of bribery and such, so the screws were tightened.

As I've suggested here before, I would not be surprised at all if the interviews are recorded and forwarded to Budapest. But who knows.

I really hope the poster in this case gets an answer from the consul, and resolves this unfortunate mystery for us.

I will contact them as soon as I am able and will update you all.

Zif - have you been through the simplified process yourself?

That is correct.
Consuls don't decide who will be approved.
They just give their opinion about candidate's knowledge of Hungarian language.

Budapest will finally approve or not the application, taking into consideration consul's opinion about candidate's knowledge of Hungarian language.
As you mentioned, sometimes Budapest additionally check it by making phone calls and directly speaking with candidates.

Hi everyone – I had another question hoping to find help on the thread.

Continuing to study language and gather documents, one snag – I didn't have the marriage certificate of my great-grandparents, but was able to find the church they were married in, in the USA in 1909. The priest there was nice enough to issue me a new marriage certificate dated this year, with his notarized signature.

But its not a civil document, its just a church marriage certificate. There appears to be no civil record of the marriage in the state. There is a civil record of the marriage license.

I read earlier in the thread church records are okay for births before a certain date, but this is in 1909. Any ideas if the embassy would accept this document, or an alternative route?

This may be a question for the embassy I realize, but since its part of my application, would I have to ask in Hungarian?

Thanks!

The church-record exception only applies to births and marriages in Hungarian territory before the government set up offices to handle registration (1895 in the case of Hungary proper, 1900 in the case of Croatia). Before then, churches were legally obligated to keep these records, and the records they kept had civil status.

Whether there's some flexibility in a case like yours I don't know. Sometimes the license and the marriage record are combined: there's a field at the bottom of the license which the priest signs to indicate he's performed the ceremony, and this is then returned to the court clerk, or whatever, for filing. I take it there's no such evidence on your license?

If not, perhaps under state law at the time there was no obligation to file a completed license. This would strengthen your case that they should accept the church document. In any event, I've some concern that the consul will not give you a firm answer but will tell you that it's up to Budapest.

(I don't think you have to speak Hungarian with the consul until you formally submit your application. Not that it wouldn't make a good impression now, though.)

Thanks for the info zif.

Since you had some doubt on their flexibility, I did what I should've done first and called the local courthouse to ask if there were any options. I was surprised to hear they said I (or a lawyer) could write a request for a court order to have the license record completed using the witnessed signature of the current priest and copy of the church record even though it was 109 years ago and all involved parties are now deceased.

With this completed she said she could issue a civil certificate. So problem avoided I hope. Thanks for your response.

Hello Everyone
This thread is a mega read
my situation is as follows

my Grandad was born in Budapest in 1936 and my grandma was born in pecs in 1911 or 1918 not sure which im trying to research her data,

im unsure if they married in Hungary but at some point they left Hungary and emigrated to Canada

in 1960 they had my dad in Canada and in 1963 emigrated to Australia

this is where it gets a bit complex,

my grandparents got re married in Australia due to the Australian government not accepting marriage certificate in 1967 which means that certificate shows he was born before they where married ( according to Australia anyway)

my dad has been very secretive about the whole thing

but my birth certificate Victorian one shows my dad being born in Toronto
my dads birth certificate (Victorian one) he had to be adopted by his biological parents to get Australian citizenship shows both parents born in Hungary

am i royally stuffed up or is it still possible to get my Hungarian citizenship

so far i approached the consult and they advised that i just need to "Verify" my citizenship as long as i can prove my grandparents got married in Hungary, yet i dont have the certificate

my dad says he never asked if they got married as they never spoke about it



so far with BDM i have requested my granddads death certificate and my grandmas death certificate

once i get both these documents im going to apply to Canada for the whole immigration record and hope that when they immigrated to Canada they where married and they have location and date of marriage on that if not i am not sure what to do

sorry for long post its just been sleepless nights and frustration at my dad for being so closed up relating to this whole thing

My general take away from time on this thread is that nobody's documents are perfect, and a lot of what may be accepted or rejected is frustratingly subjective. I also have my own headaches regarding missing/contradictory documents – so I wouldn't lose hope just have to do your best to provide the best proof you can. Every time I have written to the consulate they have written me back with, 'maybe it depends on what hungarian authorities say'. But the number of accepted vs. rejected applications is in your favor, so don't give up. If anyone else has something more helpful please feel free to add but yeah in my experience the general answer has been very vague for incomplete or problems with inconsistencies in documents and it seems it will depend on the judgement of whoever reviews your application.

Another question – does anyone know, if you have a one-of-a-kind document, do they let you keep it when you submit?

The best I could find for my ancestor from was a certified copy from 1960 of her re-issued ukrainian birth certificate made in 1957. The Ukraine state archive 'lost' the church records for the period of her birth from the municipality cited on the certificate. This means Ukraine has no record so there would be no way to replace my only existing certified copy. I was planning to try my luck bringing this document in, but I wouldn't want to give it to them as it is irreplaceable. Did anyone manage to keep their original?

csheppa wrote:

Another question – does anyone know, if you have a one-of-a-kind document, do they let you keep it when you submit?

The best I could find for my ancestor from was a certified copy from 1960 of her re-issued ukrainian birth certificate made in 1957. The Ukraine state archive 'lost' the church records for the period of her birth from the municipality cited on the certificate. This means Ukraine has no record so there would be no way to replace my only existing certified copy. I was planning to try my luck bringing this document in, but I wouldn't want to give it to them as it is irreplaceable. Did anyone manage to keep their original?

If you go in person and explain, they should take a copy of it, and make a note that they saw the original?

I was told by my nearby consulate that they would make a certified copy you could submit. Forget the exact amount of the fee, maybe 30-40 euro, not cheap. Different consulates may have different policies.

But if you do submit the original, they will keep it.

Hello Everyone!
In my research I am collecting attributes of expats about motivation of moving, why were you choosing Hungary, based on job, family, and home-country background stories. If you have a story and willing to share it, please send me a priv message
Cheers, Peter

Hello all!

I am just beginning to read this thread from both ends. I have questions I may later find the answers to but I thought I'd ask them here too:

I'm just beginning the process. Do I need actual originals of birth certificates and marriage certificates, or will certified copies of the records work? I do not know that I will be able to get the exact original birth certificates of people who are long deceased, but I can potentially get government issued copies.

Can someone please point me to an accurate map of where my relative must have been born for me to be eligible? I'm still tracking him out of the USA because there is a discrepancy on when he came. If I understand correctly, it needs to be somewhere within pre-Trianon Hungary, which includes places that are now Poland, Romania, and other eastern and not Hungary countries. Is there ANY place that went to what is now Austria eligible? My ancestor indicated on the 1930 census his birthplace as Hungaria/Hungary. On the 1940 census it is indicated as Austria. While I may still complete the genealogy if I am ineligible, it will definitely be less of a priority. Right now the eligibility question is my main motivation.

Does anyone have tips for locating naturalization records? I do not know more than a name and estimated birth year for this ancestor. I'm not sure how to find out the name of his parents to confirm a birth certificate if I can locate one.

Thanks! Sorry I am inept.