Advice on Cost of Living in Santos and Sao Paolo.

Hello hellenica and welcome to Expat.com!

Do not hesitate to browse through the forum, it may help.

Harmonie.

Hi Hellenica,

US$3000 per month works out at the current rate of exchange to R$5285.70 which is quite low considering most middle management jobs in São Paulo pay around R$7000 - R$8000 per month. The cost of living in São Paulo is quite high and climbing steadily.

Renting an apartment in a decent neighborhood near the city center is on the top of the list. An unfurnished one bedroom apartment will cost upwards of R$1000 per month, plus condominium fees (where applicable) which can be almost equal to the rent in some cases. In most cases you will also have to pay the property taxes and rental insurance too. Rental contracts are fixed by law at 30 months, nothing less.

Only furnished apartments come with appliances and they are outrageously expensive, so you will most likely need to buy appliances. Refrigerators here range from the lowest price of around R$900 upwards to over R$2000 depending on the features you want. Washing machines are about the same and clothes dryers are almost unheard of here in Brazil. A basic 4 burner gas range/oven with automatic ignition will cost about R$500 and the more burners or features the price only goes up from there. Air conditioners are about R$1000 if you want one of those. Electric heaters (central heating is non-existant here) depending on the size are also expensive.

A trip to the supermarket can be frightening, prices are constantly rising on everything. A single person should budget about R$500 a month at minimum perhaps more if you like to eat a lot. Depending on where you go eating out can range from very inexpensive to expensive. Small "self-serve" restaurants offer ready made dishes from about R$6 and up. You can usually get a good meal at one of them (by weight) for about R$15. Good restaurants can charge about R$30 or more for a decent meal.

Utilities in São Paulo are also expensive. Electricity for a single person who uses lots of lighting and a computer will probably run around R$120 per month, water R$30, For a TV/internet/telephone basic plan you can count on paying at least R$175 per month without any extras and not counting long distance phone charges. Since many apartments do not have piped gas you will also have to pay for CNG to be delivered. The tank costs about R$90 the first time, then each further delivery they exchange it with a full tank and this costs about R$45. If you cook a lot or use the oven frequently it will generally last a single person only 3 months.

Unless you REALLY need a car and plan on doing a great deal of driving every day you should forget about buying a car here in Brazil, they are just to expensive when you factor in all the additional expenses. Popular compact cars here (manual transmission) and no options start around R$23000 and go up from there. The larger cars run from R$50000 and up. Insurance is super-expensive and the list of things that it DOESN'T cover is frightening. Taxes paid every year like IPVA, DPVAT are horrible too, then there is fuel which depends on the system your car has, alcohol for "flex" cars is around R$1,25 a liter,  regular gasoline around R2,20, diesel R$1,90 and natural gas is  around R$1,50. Add to that high maintenance costs, tires, etc.

Then too the bureaucracy involved in either having your (home country) drivers licence translated and accepted here or getting a Brazilian licence is absurd. If you come from Canada/USA/Mexico/Central or South America you can get a Inter-Americas Drivers Permit (IADP) which will allow you to drive here for 1 year with a valid drivers licence from home. An International Drivers Permit (IDP) is NOT valid in Brazil since  it is not one of the signatory countries.

If your company doesn't provide you with a car and driver when needed you will probably save money in the long run by taking taxis when you really need one rather than buy a car.

I don't know much about the cost of living in Santos, however it will probably not be much different than it is here.

wjwoodward thank you so much for your reply! the figures you are telling me completely changed the scenery now. I had (don't know why) the idea it would take much less to have a decent life in Sao Paolo than what you describe.
Again, many thanks.

Hi Hellenica,

If you are able to get a better wage offer because of the new information that would be great. São Paulo is a wonderful place to live and if you are determined enough and willing to make some sacrifices you can economize in most of the areas of the high cost of living here.

If you end up accepting the job offer and will be coming to São Paulo please let me know and I will give you all the information that I can about how to cut costs, save money and cope with living in South America's largest city. It isn't an easy task, but it is well worth the effort given all the wonderful things the city has to offer.

Regards,
William James Woodward

Hi Wjwoodard,

What about purchasing an apartment? Lets say in the region of 140 mil reais versus the cost of two people renting in a decent neighbourhood close to the metro.

Frank

Hi Frank,

I would suspect that most one bedroom apartments in what you might consider a decent neighborhood in São Paulo would be well in excess of R$140 thousand, but it doesn't hurt to look around.

You could start by checking out a few of the online imobiliarias like www.lugarcerto.com.br or www.bomnegocio.com. You will find lots of them if you do a Google search. Who knows? You might get lucky.

One thing to remember is that it is impossible for a foreigner to get financing here in Brazil unless you have a permanent visa, RNE, CPF and probably an account in a Brazilian bank, so you will most likely need to purchase on a cash basis unless you can get financing in your home country for real estate here (unlikely). The advantage of a cash deal if there is one, you can negotiate for a discount in the selling price.

If you do end up buying on a cash basis, don't forget to arrange for private insurance against fire and other losses since you will not get the "built-in" insurance coverage that comes with financing through the Caixa Econômica Federal and other institutions that Brazilians enjoy.

Regards,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog

Dear all,
If it costs almost a fortune to buy a car in Brazil, how much it cost to use a private taxi company. For enstance, to book a driver for the morning so he can bring you to shopping, await in the taxi while you're shopping and bring you back home.
If you have any idea it will be great,
Many takes,
Sebastien

Hi Sebastien,

If you don't use a taxi frequently it is much cheaper than having a car. If the cost of purchasing a car isn't bad enough then there are all of the taxes that go along with it. IPI, DPVAT, IPVA, etc. On top of that you need to consider the cost of insurance which is extremely high here and offers minimal coverage at best (generally unless you have full coverage it won't cover your stereo or other equipment like GPS, glass breakage, vandalism). Also there is the cost of fuel, maintenance, repairs, car wash and the like. Parking in São Paulo can be anywhere from R$8 to R$15 per hour depending on the area.

On the other hand taxi fare in São Paulo are not that bad. The flag is R$4,10 and then R$2,50 per kilometer.

There is a site where you can calculate the fare of your trip and see the exact route so an unscrupulous driver can't take you off course to charge more.

http://www.tarifadetaxi.com/sao-paulo

So for example, say you're going from Hotel San Marques in Pirituba (zona oeste) to Terminal Rodoviário Tietê the fare works out to be R$43,37 (bandeira 1) and R$54,56 (bandeira 2) respectively for a normal taxi. These figures are dead accurate I can tell you from experience because I have made this trip a few times.

As far as shopping it is not advisable to have a taxi wait while you make your purchases, it costs too mucy. You just phone a central number and the nearest taxi is sent to you. If you take a taxi from home quite often then ask for the cellular phone number of a driver who gives you good service and you can call him directly. You will establish a friendship and get better service that way. Don't forget to always give a tip to the driver it pays off in the long run. I had a favorite driver, called him directly and always tipped well. He was always prompt to pick me up wherever I was. One day during a torential downpour I got trapped at the supermarket by a flood. I phoned him (he was at home) and he came to pick me up by a back route that wouldn't be flooded and took me and my groceries home despite the bad weather. It is certain that another driver would not have done the same unless it was for someone he/she considered a friend.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog

Mr Woodward---you give some great insight into the cost of living in Sao Paulo--me and my wife are considering a move there maybe within the next 3 months. We want to live in a central location and we have been to the city before---how much do you think it would be to rent a two bedroom apt in a community like Higienopolis,or Jardines or near the center of the city? I had a hard time finding insurance(health) costs online and would you be able to tell me how much a good policy might run me and my wife? Just off the cuff, it seems pretty expensive there---maybe 35% more expensive than where I am now. As you said though, there are many events and things going on there as well. AFTER READING your blog, I think it will be much more expensive relocating to SP than i thought it would be originally considering all the upfront costs. Thanks and have a nice day!

I was thinking about retiring to Brazil my SS is around 1333.00/month US is it possible to live there.  I'm more interested in the country than any particular city so we can add that to the equation.

Robert

Jimbo,

The starting price for 2br. apartment rentals in almost all of greater São Paulo is around R$2000 per month and they range upwards from there. Then you must also consider if it is in a large building that has condiminium fees. These can be almost as high as the rent in some cases. Most landlords also pass the property taxes (IPTU) along to the tenant as well. Higienópolis and Jardins would probably both be a bit more pricey.

If you are going to be employed by any reputable company here health insurance will probably make up part of the remuneration package. Private plans are quite expensive here, don't cover everything and are constantly in trouble with the government. Recently about 300 insurers were prohibited from writing new contracts until they clean up their act. You will also be covered by SUS the national healthcare system.

Cost of living here is high, but you must compare that with the fact that most entry level positions for foreigners pay around R$7000 per month.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog

Hi gatzbo,

Your Social Security benefit would be about R$2700 per month based on current exchange rates. You would have to cut costs considerably and if renting live in one of the neighborhoods more removed from the city center in São Paulo, or live in many other cities where the cost of living is considerably lower. However even if you were living simply on your SS benefits you could get by even in São Paulo, better still in other cities. I'm doing okay on considerably less living in Macaé - RJ.

You would not likely be able to qualify for a permanent visa for retired persons since the regulation requires an income equal to USD$2000 per month. I don't know if they have any flexibility there. Perhaps some of our retired members could answer that question better than I.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog

$3000 x month is a very low level in SP.
To live well you need your company to handle Rent/Vehicle and after that perhaps you can make it on $3k

Hi IntlExec,

If your reply was directed to gatzbo, that figure is his retirement pension, not his salary.

As I pointed out to him it is quite low for São Paulo, but still within the range of possibility if he's willing to go on an austerity budget and live outside the city's more desirable areas. If I can get by on less he certainly can. Obviously it would be much easier in other cities in Brazil.

That's not his real problem. His problem is that the pension income required for the visa is USD 2000 per month and an additional 1000 for each dependent. That's going to be hard to get around.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

I have no idea why SP I would retire in other much nicer cities in Brazil...Saude

wjwoodward wrote:

Hi IntlExec,

If your reply was directed to gatzbo, that figure is his retirement pension, not his salary.

As I pointed out to him it is quite low for São Paulo, but still within the range of possibility if he's willing to go on an austerity budget and live outside the city's more desirable areas. If I can get by on less he certainly can. Obviously it would be much easier in other cities in Brazil.

That's not his real problem. His problem is that the pension income required for the visa is USD 2000 per month and an additional 1000 for each dependent. That's going to be hard to get around.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Purely personal choices... we aren't all Xerox copies. I lived in São Paulo quite a long time, even after starting to collect my pension. Moved to Macaé - RJ for family reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with cost of living. Perhaps gatzbo isn't cut out for life outside the big city. Bottom line is it's his choice.

I'm sure there are lots of people who think I'm crazy for living in Macaé, but that's for me to decide and not for them to judge.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Sem duvida amigo...Saude

wjwoodward wrote:

Purely personal choices... we aren't all Xerox copies. I lived in São Paulo quite a long time, even after starting to collect my pension. Moved to Macaé - RJ for family reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with cost of living. Perhaps gatzbo isn't cut out for life outside the big city. Bottom line is it's his choice.

I'm sure there are lots of people who think I'm crazy for living in Macaé, but that's for me to decide and not for them to judge.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

I am a us citizen and would like to know how I could purchase a new car from saopaulo,brazil or any foreign country.  If possible, can you lead me in the right direction?  Thank you Sandy

Hi Sandy,

The problem is not being able to purchase the car, it's getting throught all the red tape, paying all the import taxes, etc., in order to get it into the USA.

Then you've got to consider that cars manufactured outside North America may not necessarily meet all the EPA and safety standards that are required. You could end up biting off a lot more than you can chew. So what might look like a tempting deal when you just think about sticker price, getting something you can actually put on the road may cost you more than buying a North American vehicle.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hi,

I have been offered a position of IT Project Manager in Sao Paulo and have been offered a annual gross salary of R$110K. I will be coming with my family (wife and 3 years old Kid). I would like to know what would be my take home salary and what will be the monthly expense if I go with a furnished one bedroom apartment. I prefer to cook at home and occasionally go out for eating. I don't need a car as I would prefer to use public transport to commute daily. Also, my Kid will be going to school preferably play school as a nursery.

Appreciate your early response.

Thank you,
Sagar

Hi Sagar,

Your income tax deducted at the source will be based on your annual income (in Brazilian Reais - BRL) as follows:

Income (BRL)    %
1-18,799    -
18,799-28,174    7.5
28,174-37,566    15
37,566-46,939    22.5
over 46,939    27.5

You will pay your portion of contributions to INSS (pension) based on your monthly salary at the following rates:

   R$ / mês                         %
até 1.247,70                      8,00
de 1.247,71 até 2.079,50    9,00
de 2.079,51 até 4.159,00    11,00

Hope this helps you do your calculations.

It's highly unlikely you will find a furnished apartment here in Brazil (other than in Residential Hotels or Pousadas which are like a B&B without breakfast) and these are extremely expensive. It will be much cheaper in the end to rent an unfurnished apartment and purchase furnishings even if you need to start off with the bare basics and add to that over time.

See my posting on "High cost of living in SP and how to economize" for more helpful hints

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=137716

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Thank you William for quick response. Appreciate you taking time and replying to the queries raised by New bees.

Last question - would you think R$110K pa is a good one to start with? I think the monthly expense would go somewhere around R$3500 to R$4000, what are your thoughts.

The Link you gave me is very helpful, thanks for that!

Regards,
Sagar

Without knowing exactly what your position will be it's hard to say, but generally people in low to middle management are starting at anywhere from R$7 to R$8 thousand per month. So you're considerably higher than that.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team